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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Jul 2, 2024 21:18:13 GMT
I wish we would have fewer, more meaningful combat encounters and also non-combat solutions through dialogue, stealth, etc. I haven't heard anything about non-combat skills though so I'm assuming it isn't a thing in this game (would love to be wrong). They were already headed in that direction after DAO. Back then there were pick pocketing skills to obtain items without confrontation, persuasion skills and plenty of times I used stealth to sneak up on an enemy and set traps for them. Finding traps and disarming them was also a skill. That was still present in DA2 but no longer a thing in DAI, whilst lock picking was something that you earned that applied generally, not something that was specific to your class and could be ignored in favour of brute force from either yourself as a warrior or one of your companions. Whilst it was frustrating at times, I did enjoy the option in Mark of the Assassin to move through the villa by stealth rather than fighting. However, they did mention that the rogue class Saboteur includes the ability to set traps so I suppose there is still that element left. However, the other non-combat skills, particularly those that allow you to resolve a situation without force seem to have gone completely.
Trap setting introduces the concept of game pacing, I'd think. Lock picking / pick pocketing I find to be a pain in the arse. Besides, Bio is always stingy on the loot front and we haven't talked about those merchants in Bio games that rob you blind.... buy low and sell high. You'd think, since Bio shook the RPG genre (in Bio games) that inventory management is markedly improved while merchants buy/sell at more reasonable rates. We'll see, I hope.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Jul 2, 2024 21:23:16 GMT
I liked the idea of court approval. Just wish the halla statues had been handled differently because I have to rely on a guide every time to get the outcome I want. Those damned halla statues. I didn't even see the one in the rafters of the kitchen initially and then when I knew where it was, found it frustratingly difficult to recover. (Mind you I had similar frustration with accessing some of the shards). Perhaps it was easier on a console or I was just really bad at it. I did like the general premise though, of moving around and talking with people to gain approval.
Shards? Did you mention Shards? Another reason why DA:I is not my fav game. I played it because I bought it... no.. because I was stupid and pre-ordered it! Uhg..
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,144 Likes: 50,095
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Post by Iakus on Jul 2, 2024 21:36:23 GMT
It's almost like you're jumping to conclusions or something... If I am I would be more helped by you elaborating on how I have misunderstood them. I'm always willing to listen! Well you (and others) seem to be assuming that said poster is some kind of failed Austrian painter with a funny moustache just because "DEI" was mentioned in a negative way. Asking for elaboration is a good first step. Not a good second one. But I think thus far you're the only who who asked at all.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 2, 2024 21:42:16 GMT
(Immediately gets flashback of doing the ME2 Collector Ship mission on Insanity difficulty) Still get cold sweat from that...
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Post by colfoley on Jul 2, 2024 22:07:00 GMT
Remember how today's "DEI bad!" folks came on the forums only to call us a bunch of SJWs? Heh, I haven't heard that one in a bit... They keep rebranding it when the old terms stop working. One thing that's odd about this group is that the are simultaneously the most explicitly political faction of gamers, and also the most prone to cry about politics in games (although in their warped view of politics, the mere existence of non-white/cis/het people is inherently political- "DEI", "woke", minorities me no like", etc- whereas cishet white ppl are somehow apolitical by contrast). I guess its an instance of the general rule that "political" is usually just short-hand for "politics that aren't my own" Its an easy enough mistake to make and granted you are right getting involved in politics at all, even in a purely negative fashion, is getting involved in politics. But if their only point is to try and get something that is highly political, DEI, out of entertainment, then that's not really liking politics within games.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 12,704 Likes: 20,644
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 2, 2024 22:15:18 GMT
(Immediately gets flashback of doing the ME2 Collector Ship mission on Insanity difficulty) Still get cold sweat from that... Yeah it is a creep ymission no tquiet as bad as the Broodmother sectoin of th eDeep Roads in Origins but yeah. That on ealways get's a littl econcernedwhen I hea rHespith start talking
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 2, 2024 22:39:38 GMT
One thing that's odd about this group is that the are simultaneously the most explicitly political faction of gamers, and also the most prone to cry about politics in games (although in their warped view of politics, the mere existence of non-white/cis/het people is inherently political- "DEI", "woke", minorities me no like", etc- whereas cishet white ppl are somehow apolitical by contrast). I guess its an instance of the general rule that "political" is usually just short-hand for "politics that aren't my own" Its an easy enough mistake to make and granted you are right getting involved in politics at all, even in a purely negative fashion, is getting involved in politics. But if their only point is to try and get something that is highly political, DEI, out of entertainment, then that's not really liking politics within games. They don't get to have it both ways, though. You can't advocate for e.g. one type of racial politics, but claim that only the opposing racial politics is racial politics. If the mere fact of non-white/cis/hetero people existing in a game is political, then white cishet don't get to magically be apolitical by contrast.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,144 Likes: 50,095
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Post by Iakus on Jul 2, 2024 22:50:41 GMT
Its an easy enough mistake to make and granted you are right getting involved in politics at all, even in a purely negative fashion, is getting involved in politics. But if their only point is to try and get something that is highly political, DEI, out of entertainment, then that's not really liking politics within games. They don't get to have it both ways, though. You can't advocate for e.g. one type of racial politics, but claim that only the opposing racial politics is racial politics. If the mere fact of non-white/cis/hetero people existing in a game is political, then white cishet don't get to magically be apolitical by contrast. More assumptions. Or strawmanning.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Jul 2, 2024 23:00:12 GMT
If I am I would be more helped by you elaborating on how I have misunderstood them. I'm always willing to listen! Well you (and others) seem to be assuming that said poster is some kind of failed Austrian painter with a funny moustache just because "DEI" was mentioned in a negative way. Asking for elaboration is a good first step. Not a good second one. But I think thus far you're the only who who asked at all. I wasn't talking about the anyone posting here, I was talking about people I see writing/making videos on YT saying they won't buy the game because "Bioware went woke" as if DA up until now had been a safe haven where traditional Christian family values were upheld. People can buy or not buy whatever they want for all I care, but I will laugh out loud when the reasoning is dumb as rocks.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 2, 2024 23:03:00 GMT
Its an easy enough mistake to make and granted you are right getting involved in politics at all, even in a purely negative fashion, is getting involved in politics. But if their only point is to try and get something that is highly political, DEI, out of entertainment, then that's not really liking politics within games. They don't get to have it both ways, though. You can't advocate for e.g. one type of racial politics, but claim that only the opposing racial politics is racial politics. If the mere fact of non-white/cis/hetero people existing in a game is political, then white cishet don't get to magically be apolitical by contrast. But they don't. Granted the frustration here is that there does not seem to be any real codified bent to these arguments a lot of them seem to be up to the individual to go 'this is woke' or what not. But take BG III for instance. A game that has minority representation. A game that has LGBTQ rep. Black people. Women. All of these types of people in important, representative roles. And yet I don't seem to find any woke backlash against them. Though keeping in mind the above I am sure we can find some video to go 'ah ha!' but there just does not seem to be that much of a clamor on the 'wokeness' of BG out there. Indeed as some people even point out around here, though imo they are confusing the dangers of DEI with actual diversity, Dragon Age and BioWare has included these types of people in their games from the very beginning...all without much claims of being 'woke', or having political influence within the medium. If you go back far enough we've had women, minorities, and even the occasional gay character well represented in other franchises over the years...without being acused of being woke or whatever the previous versions of the terms were. The Witcher, Stargate, Babylon 5, Ripley in Aliens, Star Wars, James Bond as early as the 70s, Trek. I think the list has gone on and on and on. So the issue, at least with some, isn't that minority characters are being represented in film since they have been represented in film/ entertainment quite competently in entertainment for decades but that, for these people, something has changed to where they are no longer being represented competently. Whilst I don't want to go too far into the weeds of a political movement I don't really understand and sometimes gives me a headache we have seen actors, producers, writers, and directors lambast various parts of their audience and say that these movies 'aren't for them' and that they are doing these things specifically to piss off varying racial groups. I think that's a good start to understanding why some people are annoyed, and fortunatley BioWare hasn't fallen to that temptation since they are very eager it seems to genuinely make games for everyone. At least Patrick Weekes said something to that effect in an interview right around the time DAI came out. Though on the flip side the original post and the original argument doesen't really hold up in this case, at least imo. The 'other side' of the culture war since Woke is a new term the mistake members of that side tend to make is attaching the word to stuff with minorities in it because the assumption is made that anything with minorities is automatically bad because its influenced by DEI etc. Plus, while I am not going to be bigoted and assume anyone who makes the argument and is concerned about such things is themselves a bigot or has nefarious motives genuine bigots have latched onto the movement as well. Its hard to know the full personality of a poster on the BSN based on a single post and I will not be doing so, speaking in general observations here, but really I don't see anything within Veilguard which is any more or less woke as Baldur's Gate. So to lead back up to my original comments sometimes the 'rules' seem to be quite unevenly applied.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Jul 2, 2024 23:05:34 GMT
Its an easy enough mistake to make and granted you are right getting involved in politics at all, even in a purely negative fashion, is getting involved in politics. But if their only point is to try and get something that is highly political, DEI, out of entertainment, then that's not really liking politics within games. They don't get to have it both ways, though. You can't advocate for e.g. one type of racial politics, but claim that only the opposing racial politics is racial politics. If the mere fact of non-white/cis/hetero people existing in a game is political, then white cishet don't get to magically be apolitical by contrast. IMO some people just want to view themselves as "the default" - a thing everything originates from or caters to - and they either confuse (or deliberately portray) those opinions/states of being as "apolitical", when nothing can be farther from the truth. It's... well, it's like calling oneself an "original fan", as if somehow it means that their opinions carry more weight than that of others - and that doing something they don't like means that a person/company/title is straying from the 'one true path', which should be catering specifically to their tastes - never mind if the company moved on, the world moved on, or most other fans moved on. Really, in this context, throwing the word "political" around is not different to throwing SJW/woke/CRT/DEI around - it's just everything a given person doesn't like, or considers an aberration from "the default".
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 2, 2024 23:23:50 GMT
They don't get to have it both ways, though. You can't advocate for e.g. one type of racial politics, but claim that only the opposing racial politics is racial politics. If the mere fact of non-white/cis/hetero people existing in a game is political, then white cishet don't get to magically be apolitical by contrast. More assumptions. Or strawmanning. Lol if only, eh?
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jul 2, 2024 23:25:24 GMT
I wish we would have fewer, more meaningful combat encounters and also non-combat solutions through dialogue, stealth, etc. I haven't heard anything about non-combat skills though so I'm assuming it isn't a thing in this game (would love to be wrong). Don't need full pacifist or anything but I always feel like every DA game has more mobs than necessary and it starts to get tedious at some point even when I like the combat. Bellara has some kind of Tinker skill that Rook can apparently learn. Maybe there are others?
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jul 2, 2024 23:27:34 GMT
I wish we would have fewer, more meaningful combat encounters and also non-combat solutions through dialogue, stealth, etc. I haven't heard anything about non-combat skills though so I'm assuming it isn't a thing in this game (would love to be wrong). Don't need full pacifist or anything but I always feel like every DA game has more mobs than necessary and it starts to get tedious at some point even when I like the combat. I would actually love a way to play a full on pacifist, or at least avoid lethal means. I really appreciated the non lethal takedowns and ability to just avoid combat all together with stealth options in dishonored. Its great to have a choice.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 12,704 Likes: 20,644
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Go Team!
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jul 2, 2024 23:30:58 GMT
imagine caring about skillz and gatekeeping difficulty level in a singleplayer RPG elden ring is a thing after all. Indeed
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Post by q5tyhj on Jul 2, 2024 23:39:24 GMT
They don't get to have it both ways, though. You can't advocate for e.g. one type of racial politics, but claim that only the opposing racial politics is racial politics. If the mere fact of non-white/cis/hetero people existing in a game is political, then white cishet don't get to magically be apolitical by contrast. But they don't. Granted the frustration here is that there does not seem to be any real codified bent to these arguments a lot of them seem to be up to the individual to go 'this is woke' or what not. But take BG III for instance. A game that has minority representation. A game that has LGBTQ rep. Black people. Women. All of these types of people in important, representative roles. And yet I don't seem to find any woke backlash against them. Though keeping in mind the above I am sure we can find some video to go 'ah ha!' but there just does not seem to be that much of a clamor on the 'wokeness' of BG out there. Indeed as some people even point out around here, though imo they are confusing the dangers of DEI with actual diversity, Dragon Age and BioWare has included these types of people in their games from the very beginning...all without much claims of being 'woke', or having political influence within the medium. If you go back far enough we've had women, minorities, and even the occasional gay character well represented in other franchises over the years...without being acused of being woke or whatever the previous versions of the terms were. The Witcher, Stargate, Babylon 5, Ripley in Aliens, Star Wars, James Bond as early as the 70s, Trek. I think the list has gone on and on and on. So the issue, at least with some, isn't that minority characters are being represented in film since they have been represented in film/ entertainment quite competently in entertainment for decades but that, for these people, something has changed to where they are no longer being represented competently. Whilst I don't want to go too far into the weeds of a political movement I don't really understand and sometimes gives me a headache we have seen actors, producers, writers, and directors lambast various parts of their audience and say that these movies 'aren't for them' and that they are doing these things specifically to piss off varying racial groups. I think that's a good start to understanding why some people are annoyed, and fortunatley BioWare hasn't fallen to that temptation since they are very eager it seems to genuinely make games for everyone. At least Patrick Weekes said something to that effect in an interview right around the time DAI came out. Though on the flip side the original post and the original argument doesen't really hold up in this case, at least imo. The 'other side' of the culture war since Woke is a new term the mistake members of that side tend to make is attaching the word to stuff with minorities in it because the assumption is made that anything with minorities is automatically bad because its influenced by DEI etc. Plus, while I am not going to be bigoted and assume anyone who makes the argument and is concerned about such things is themselves a bigot or has nefarious motives genuine bigots have latched onto the movement as well. Its hard to know the full personality of a poster on the BSN based on a single post and I will not be doing so, speaking in general observations here, but really I don't see anything within Veilguard which is any more or less woke as Baldur's Gate. So to lead back up to my original comments sometimes the 'rules' seem to be quite unevenly applied. Sure they do, we see in on bsn with every new bw game. Saw it well represented during the trailers, the live chats were flooded with these clowns. All that changes is the dogwhistle, i.e. replace “sjw” with “woke” with “dei” etc. It will be same with the new mass effect too no doubt
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,144 Likes: 50,095
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Post by Iakus on Jul 2, 2024 23:43:39 GMT
Well you (and others) seem to be assuming that said poster is some kind of failed Austrian painter with a funny moustache just because "DEI" was mentioned in a negative way. Asking for elaboration is a good first step. Not a good second one. But I think thus far you're the only who who asked at all. I wasn't talking about the anyone posting here, I was talking about people I see writing/making videos on YT saying they won't buy the game because "Bioware went woke" as if DA up until now had been a safe haven where traditional Christian family values were upheld. People can buy or not buy whatever they want for all I care, but I will laugh out loud when the reasoning is dumb as rocks. Your mistake is assuming "woke" and "traditionally Christian family values" are the only options. If it's not one, it's the other. It's not all black and white, there's a whole pallet of grey in between. And whether you or I like it or not, people prefer different shades of grey. But that's no reason to mock another's preferences. Or worse, accuse them of having the absolute worst viewpoints because their preferences don't adhere to yours. "Like what I like or you're a bigot!" I am using a general "You" here, not you specifically.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,144 Likes: 50,095
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Post by Iakus on Jul 2, 2024 23:44:18 GMT
But they don't. Granted the frustration here is that there does not seem to be any real codified bent to these arguments a lot of them seem to be up to the individual to go 'this is woke' or what not. But take BG III for instance. A game that has minority representation. A game that has LGBTQ rep. Black people. Women. All of these types of people in important, representative roles. And yet I don't seem to find any woke backlash against them. Though keeping in mind the above I am sure we can find some video to go 'ah ha!' but there just does not seem to be that much of a clamor on the 'wokeness' of BG out there. Indeed as some people even point out around here, though imo they are confusing the dangers of DEI with actual diversity, Dragon Age and BioWare has included these types of people in their games from the very beginning...all without much claims of being 'woke', or having political influence within the medium. If you go back far enough we've had women, minorities, and even the occasional gay character well represented in other franchises over the years...without being acused of being woke or whatever the previous versions of the terms were. The Witcher, Stargate, Babylon 5, Ripley in Aliens, Star Wars, James Bond as early as the 70s, Trek. I think the list has gone on and on and on. So the issue, at least with some, isn't that minority characters are being represented in film since they have been represented in film/ entertainment quite competently in entertainment for decades but that, for these people, something has changed to where they are no longer being represented competently. Whilst I don't want to go too far into the weeds of a political movement I don't really understand and sometimes gives me a headache we have seen actors, producers, writers, and directors lambast various parts of their audience and say that these movies 'aren't for them' and that they are doing these things specifically to piss off varying racial groups. I think that's a good start to understanding why some people are annoyed, and fortunatley BioWare hasn't fallen to that temptation since they are very eager it seems to genuinely make games for everyone. At least Patrick Weekes said something to that effect in an interview right around the time DAI came out. Though on the flip side the original post and the original argument doesen't really hold up in this case, at least imo. The 'other side' of the culture war since Woke is a new term the mistake members of that side tend to make is attaching the word to stuff with minorities in it because the assumption is made that anything with minorities is automatically bad because its influenced by DEI etc. Plus, while I am not going to be bigoted and assume anyone who makes the argument and is concerned about such things is themselves a bigot or has nefarious motives genuine bigots have latched onto the movement as well. Its hard to know the full personality of a poster on the BSN based on a single post and I will not be doing so, speaking in general observations here, but really I don't see anything within Veilguard which is any more or less woke as Baldur's Gate. So to lead back up to my original comments sometimes the 'rules' seem to be quite unevenly applied. Sure they do, we see in on bsn with every new bw game. Saw it well represented during the trailers, the live chats were flooded with these clowns. All that changes is the dogwhistle, i.e. replace “sjw” with “woke” with “dei” etc. It will be same with the new mass effect too no doubt If you can hear the dogwhistle, maybe you're the dog?
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Ice-Quinn
N3
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 806 Likes: 2,237
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"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Jul 2, 2024 23:45:48 GMT
Well you (and others) seem to be assuming that said poster is some kind of failed Austrian painter with a funny moustache just because "DEI" was mentioned in a negative way. Asking for elaboration is a good first step. Not a good second one. But I think thus far you're the only who who asked at all. I wasn't talking about the anyone posting here, I was talking about people I see writing/making videos on YT saying they won't buy the game because "Bioware went woke" as if DA up until now had been a safe haven where traditional Christian family values were upheld. People can buy or not buy whatever they want for all I care, but I will laugh out loud when the reasoning is dumb as rocks. Yeah, but I think especially today, just like we gotta watch what we eat and put in our bodies from a health perspective, the same goes for what we consume in terms of social media, YT videos and news. Some people are just looking for excuses to pile down on BioWare, because it give them clicks and views. And the loudest of them, are not even players or fans, usually. I remember after MEA launched, I saw a video named "Sara Ryder punches a black person" or something along the lines (it was a heavily edited video of her bar brawl with Drak). You can't take something like that seriously. It's just stupid and transparent what they're trying to do. Yet stuff like that tends to get traction... unfortunately. BioWare has always been progressively inclusive, from the get go. I've had thoughts and some criticism re: women in these games (not just BioWare), a female protagonist, almost feeling like an afterthought, at times. From armor, to using distinctively masculine animations, lack of hairstyles... unless it's a game like Control, Horizon Hero Dawn or Tomb Raider or whatever, it just seems like straight male players are prioritized while we get the short end of the stick. But, you know, things have evolved and continue to, and that's a good thing.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 2, 2024 23:55:10 GMT
Sure they do, we see in on bsn with every new bw game. Saw it well represented during the trailers, the live chats were flooded with these clowns. All that changes is the dogwhistle, i.e. replace “sjw” with “woke” with “dei” etc. It will be same with the new mass effect too no doubt If you can hear the dogwhistle, maybe you're the dog? I need to remember that one.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Jul 3, 2024 0:01:52 GMT
They don't get to have it both ways, though. You can't advocate for e.g. one type of racial politics, but claim that only the opposing racial politics is racial politics. If the mere fact of non-white/cis/hetero people existing in a game is political, then white cishet don't get to magically be apolitical by contrast. But they don't. Granted the frustration here is that there does not seem to be any real codified bent to these arguments a lot of them seem to be up to the individual to go 'this is woke' or what not. But take BG III for instance. A game that has minority representation. A game that has LGBTQ rep. Black people. Women. All of these types of people in important, representative roles. And yet I don't seem to find any woke backlash against them. Though keeping in mind the above I am sure we can find some video to go 'ah ha!' but there just does not seem to be that much of a clamor on the 'wokeness' of BG out there. Indeed as some people even point out around here, though imo they are confusing the dangers of DEI with actual diversity, Dragon Age and BioWare has included these types of people in their games from the very beginning...all without much claims of being 'woke', or having political influence within the medium. If you go back far enough we've had women, minorities, and even the occasional gay character well represented in other franchises over the years...without being acused of being woke or whatever the previous versions of the terms were. The Witcher, Stargate, Babylon 5, Ripley in Aliens, Star Wars, James Bond as early as the 70s, Trek. I think the list has gone on and on and on. So the issue, at least with some, isn't that minority characters are being represented in film since they have been represented in film/ entertainment quite competently in entertainment for decades but that, for these people, something has changed to where they are no longer being represented competently. Whilst I don't want to go too far into the weeds of a political movement I don't really understand and sometimes gives me a headache we have seen actors, producers, writers, and directors lambast various parts of their audience and say that these movies 'aren't for them' and that they are doing these things specifically to piss off varying racial groups. I think that's a good start to understanding why some people are annoyed, and fortunatley BioWare hasn't fallen to that temptation since they are very eager it seems to genuinely make games for everyone. At least Patrick Weekes said something to that effect in an interview right around the time DAI came out. Though on the flip side the original post and the original argument doesen't really hold up in this case, at least imo. The 'other side' of the culture war since Woke is a new term the mistake members of that side tend to make is attaching the word to stuff with minorities in it because the assumption is made that anything with minorities is automatically bad because its influenced by DEI etc. Plus, while I am not going to be bigoted and assume anyone who makes the argument and is concerned about such things is themselves a bigot or has nefarious motives genuine bigots have latched onto the movement as well. Its hard to know the full personality of a poster on the BSN based on a single post and I will not be doing so, speaking in general observations here, but really I don't see anything within Veilguard which is any more or less woke as Baldur's Gate. So to lead back up to my original comments sometimes the 'rules' seem to be quite unevenly applied. It’s tokenism versus actual diversity. Well written characters of any ethnicity or sexuality tend to be just as beloved as straight white characters. Shit, some of DA’s most beloved characters sre Dorian, Leliana, and Isabella… a wide hit of sexes, ethnicities, and sexualities. And one or the biggest film franchises in Fast and the Furious quietly built itself off its diversity for 20 years and almost no one criticises it for the diversity. The problem comes when it feels like a character only exists to tick a box or piss people off (some creators have stated this sentiment lately). Or just horribly handled. And the ire is usually as loud from the communities they supposedly want to include. Everyone here should remember Heinsley from Andromeda… the loudest detractors were from the trans community for how bad it was handled. It was shocking after Krem being done well in Inquisition. Granted, this “woke” cry over Bioware is odd. Though seven years of no Bioware SP title and an entertainment industry struggling to do diversity correctly in that time frame and not taking critcism well has a lot of people on edge. No one wants another Heinsley moment where it didn’t do anyone justice and then to be called a bigot for calling out that it was simply poor writing.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 3, 2024 0:14:03 GMT
BioWare being BioWare is no surprise to anyone here and that's fine. I was struck during the trailer, gameplay and GameInformer updates that BioWare seem to be playing it pretty smart. The 7 pansexual companions (not playersexual) choice seems clever because no-one is ruled out, everyone can join in. When Inquisition made a big deal of Dorian in the marketing, it drew a spotlight that became a major talking point. I remember one of the game directors fending off a Russian journalist demanding a 'gay content' toggle. And for Inquisition at least, who can romance whom became somewhat of a distraction. In the 10 intervening years gaming has moved on a distance, so perhaps BioWare's approach to characters is no longer so unique (the gaming darling that is Baldur's Gate 3 had pansexual romances after all). Unless something changes in the marketing, the characters are being left to 'be' without further justification and the focus (so far at least) is on game mechanics, the character creator, difficulty and accessibility options. Diverse and accessible but also mostly uncontroversial. I'm seeing a good deal of random criticism on YouTube, but also a good amount of spirited defence. For sure there are channels complaining about BioWare (alongside Star Wars, Star Trek, etc being ruined) but also a good number of channels being very sensible about Veilguard. (A list of which we curate: bsn.boards.net/thread/20221/veilguard-content-creators-thread)
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Post by colfoley on Jul 3, 2024 0:22:56 GMT
BioWare being BioWare is no surprise to anyone here and that's fine. I was struck during the trailer, gameplay and GameInformer updates that BioWare seem to be playing it pretty smart. The 7 pansexual companions (not playersexual) choice seems clever because no-one is ruled out, everyone can join in. When Inquisition made a big deal of Dorian in the marketing, it drew a spotlight that became a major talking point. I remember one of the game directors fending off a Russian journalist demanding a 'gay content' toggle. And for Inquisition at least, who can romance whom became somewhat of a distraction. In the 10 intervening years gaming has moved on a distance, so perhaps BioWare's approach to characters is no longer so unique (the gaming darling that is Baldur's Gate 3 had pansexual romances after all). Unless something changes in the marketing, the characters are being left to 'be' without further justification and the focus (so far at least) is on game mechanics, the character creator, difficulty and accessibility options. Diverse and accessible but also mostly uncontroversial. I'm seeing a good deal of random criticism on YouTube, but also a good amount of spirited defence. For sure there are channels complaining about BioWare (alongside Star Wars, Star Trek, etc being ruined) but also a good number of channels being very sensible about Veilguard. (A list of which we curate: bsn.boards.net/thread/20221/veilguard-content-creators-thread)Dorian is a perfect example of where the divide should be, isn't always, but should be. Fully fleshed out character first, gay man second.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 3, 2024 0:29:39 GMT
Dorian is a perfect example of where the divide should be, isn't always, but should be. Fully fleshed out character first, gay man second. I do vaguely remember David Gaider being dissatisfied with how the marketing for Dorian played out, though I admit I can no longer recall the details.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 3, 2024 0:35:45 GMT
I would actually love a way to play a full on pacifist, or at least avoid lethal means. I really appreciated the non lethal takedowns and ability to just avoid combat all together with stealth options in dishonored. It’s great to have a choice. Yeah. I absolutely love games like Cyberpunk 2077 and especially the Deus Ex franchise that allows it.
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