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Post by Hrungr on Sept 17, 2024 13:50:34 GMT
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah Yeah I'm not sure where "DAI was a commercial failure" came from... Its over 12 million at this point. MASIVELY oversold the internal EA projections ... Oh yeah and was GotY in 2014.
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Post by azarhal on Sept 17, 2024 13:56:40 GMT
I knew DAI sold like 6m copies in its first year, but at 12m copies now. Nice!
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 17, 2024 13:59:39 GMT
Wait...does that mean we're getting a musical? Anyone remember the numbers for that?
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Post by luketrevelyan on Sept 17, 2024 14:10:24 GMT
Wait...does that mean we're getting a musical? Anyone remember the numbers for that? 10 million...so maybe they can do it for Veilguard instead at this point
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Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Sept 17, 2024 14:15:08 GMT
Wait...does that mean we're getting a musical? Anyone remember the numbers for that? 10 million...so maybe they can do it for Veilguard instead at this point It was a deal between Trick and Mark, though I did ask a few months back whether the deal was still on for DAV. No response though.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 17, 2024 14:28:48 GMT
The fireworks go all the way back to Origin. The fireworks go all the way back to Baldur's Gate. Context is also important. A high level mage is going to be much more flashy than a low level one. It can also feel very different playing a game in minute-to-minute combat, vs. watching a video from a distance. The 3-person vs. 4-person set up is also likely to make a difference which can only really be judged controller/mouse in hand.
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2024 14:30:53 GMT
Wait...does that mean we're getting a musical? Anyone remember the numbers for that? ...Is that why they retained the Inquisitor? We're going to visit the Fade (that they ended up in somehow) and they'll just recount their whole story in musical form?????
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 17, 2024 14:33:44 GMT
and they'll just recount their whole story in musical form????? It could be bunny-pigs...
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 17, 2024 14:56:25 GMT
I'd still prefer NugElope over musical
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Post by biggydx on Sept 17, 2024 16:41:32 GMT
So it's been a long time since I played Origins. What was it specifically about the class that people found less enjoyable?
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 17, 2024 17:19:02 GMT
So it's been a long time since I played Origins. What was it specifically about the class that people found less enjoyable? If you mean the Warrior class, I think people did like it. However, the class was much more versatile back then as you could be a dual wielding warrior as well as two handed or sword and shield, and swap to a crossbow (which required lower dexterity than a long bow) if you wished to start off attacking enemies from a distance with the entire party, before switching to melee weapons as they closed in. I felt people really started to opt for other classes once they removed this versatility and made them purely a close range melee class. It certainly made it less appealing to me and I only played warrior once in DA2 and not at all in DAI. A lot depends of course on whether you want to be in the thick of the action and don't mind standing your ground and doing nothing if the situation requires a ranged approach. The drawback to not playing a rogue in DAO was that you missed out on some loot early on because you spent much of your time running around Ostagar alone and then in the Tower of Ishtar the extra team members were another warrior and a mage, so if you were playing a warrior that made three of them with Alistiar, or two warriors and two mages if you were playing a mage. You only acquired a rogue in that scenario on reaching Lothering and recruiting Leliana. Strangely enough, my first run somehow I missed out on Leliana altogether (somehow I didn't see the inn) and so it was just as well I was playing a rogue because it was only much later that we recruited Zevran after I had done the whole of the werewolf quest and possibly Redcliff too if I recall right. I'd have missed out on a lot without a rogue, not to mention having a problem with traps.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 17, 2024 17:31:56 GMT
I knew DAI sold like 6m copies in its first year, but at 12m copies now. Nice! That is a good figure but without wanting to be a party pooper, how many sold at the original retail price and how many later on once it came down in price? It is the amount the game actually makes that is surely the figure that EA are interested in. DAV needs to sell well at the initial price to make back the amount of money invested in its development over the last 10 years.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 17, 2024 17:49:16 GMT
I knew DAI sold like 6m copies in its first year, but at 12m copies now. Nice! That is a good figure but without wanting to be a party pooper, how many sold at the original retail price and how many later on once it came down in price? It is the amount the game actually makes that is surely the figure that EA are interested in. DAV needs to sell well at the initial price to make back the amount of money invested in its development over the last 10 years.
The 1st week of sales is crucial... or so I've read. After that period, sales drop.
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Post by IllustriousT on Sept 17, 2024 17:56:03 GMT
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Post by azarhal on Sept 17, 2024 17:56:48 GMT
I knew DAI sold like 6m copies in its first year, but at 12m copies now. Nice! That is a good figure but without wanting to be a party pooper, how many sold at the original retail price and how many later on once it came down in price? It is the amount the game actually makes that is surely the figure that EA are interested in. DAV needs to sell well at the initial price to make back the amount of money invested in its development over the last 10 years. DAI sold more copies at release (1st month) than EA was expecting. That was known back in 2015 already (edit: via EA investor conference). It was BioWare biggest commercial success at release. Whatever it sold afterward was just gravy.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Sept 17, 2024 17:56:51 GMT
That is a good figure but without wanting to be a party pooper, how many sold at the original retail price and how many later on once it came down in price? It is the amount the game actually makes that is surely the figure that EA are interested in. DAV needs to sell well at the initial price to make back the amount of money invested in its development over the last 10 years.
The 1st week of sales is crucial... or so I've read. After that period, sales drop.
Well sure, but that doesn't mean it can't stop selling. An expansion is still technically a chance to market the game, as an example.
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Post by SofaJockey on Sept 17, 2024 18:18:55 GMT
The 1st week of sales is crucial... or so I've read. After that period, sales drop. Quite right, 90% of game sales are typically from the first 3 weeks. From old articles it seems Inquisition sold around 6 million copies year one. (Though EA are intentionally vague, that represents the sales of Origins and 2 put together). However, some games have a long 'tail' where they are steadily making meaningful sales month after month after year. Darrah's 12m sales insight says a good deal about the Dragon Age install base and a potentially significant customer base for Veilguard, so long as it isn't too deterred by BioWare's more recent missteps and the evolution of gaming. There's a section of the internet very dismissive of modern BioWare and Drgaon Age. It remains to be seen whether that drama gains traction with potential customers or whether BioWare's (and its creator community) marketing will win out. Given the 10 years in the making, I think it's also likely that the majority of players will be new to Dragon Age.
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Post by theratpack55 on Sept 17, 2024 19:00:30 GMT
It really depends on someone's preferences. I like flashy, as you put it, shit and you don't. I agree that they should let people to disable at least some of effects tho. I like flashiness, too (I play mages 90% of the time) - but when it's appropriate. Flashy for the sake of flashy, to make something appear better than it is, it's just smoke and mirrors. Doesn't make it meaningful or impactful. Only goes to dilute the formula. Melee combat in souls games is as flashy as it gets, giant anime swords and everything, but it still feels melee. Hard hits with heavy weapons. No need for colorful magic effects. I kind of wish DAV did it in a similar way.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Sept 17, 2024 19:11:30 GMT
It's a combination of enemies' elemental weaknesses being important and to make warriors "more visually interesting and impactful". Here's an actual quote from Discord Q&A. Again, it's the misguided notion that flashy sh*t = meaningful and impactful. It. Does. Not. I like flashiness, too (I play mages 90% of the time) - but when it's appropriate. Flashy for the sake of flashy, to make something appear better than it is, it's just smoke and mirrors. Doesn't make it meaningful or impactful. Only goes to dilute the formula. I tend to play mages or rogues, actually because I'm not so good at melee, so I can stand back and fling spells/arrows or sneak around and catch the enemy off guard, whilst someone else did the dangerous melee work. Also, the warrior companions always seemed good enough that after playing through once, I knew I didn't really need to be one myself. However, in DAO and DA2 I still felt I needed my warrior companions. It was usually a case of having one companion from each class with me and I just doubled up with one of them. Of course, you also needed people from each class, particularly rogue, because of traps and locks to pick, etc. DAI was the first time I felt confident to break from this formation and for side missions I might well run without a tank or without a rogue because you no longer had to pick locks but could just bash stuff open (without damaging what was inside) and there were no traps to detect and disarm. So, in some ways I feel they were moving towards this hybrid type of party even back then and because you didn't have to have a balanced party, perhaps they took that as indicating people didn't favour warriors. Yes, Knight Enchanter rocked because it was so overpowered. The solution would be not to reproduce such an overpowered mage next time round, not make every warrior a mage hybrid. Arcane Warrior was enjoyable in DAO but it didn't mean I could do without my warrior companions, just allowed a variation in how we approached battles. Regardless of what Solas maintained, Knight Enchanter was nothing like the Arcane Warrior I had previously played. I have to admit I was less inclined to play a warrior on one of my play throughs with DAI because of the limitation to just one specialisation. Previous games I found experimenting with the different classes more enjoyable because of being able to have at least two specialisms (or more in DAA) with an extensive list to choose from, so there could be lots of mix and match. This was a drawback I found with all the classes in DAI because essentially I could do without whichever companion I was replicating with my specialism. That was never the case with DAO, because I could ensure that at least one of our specialisms was different and, of course, in DA2 the companion specialisms were unique to them. Whilst they are reproducing the latter in DAV, by making the effectiveness of their build dependent on syncronising with Rook, I don't really get that sense of them having their own unique skills and abilities which I need for our team to be effective, they are just power boosters for Rook. They say they wanted to encourage the use of all companions but I get the sense that, except where they are compulsory for a mission, it will be possible to just focus on one or two companions and maximise their build to work effectively with my own. Thanks to the lyrium blade and associated runes, I can just swap relevant damage in and out as it suits me. Yeah I generally play mages an drogues too I jus tmostly spam guard us ethe grappling chain and hack enemie t obit when playing warrior wheneve rI hav eplayed one. I don' tgenerall yfind i tha texciting in DAI
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Sept 17, 2024 19:12:59 GMT
and still one of my favourite games to this day
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 17, 2024 19:47:48 GMT
So it's been a long time since I played Origins. What was it specifically about the class that people found less enjoyable? For me, the problem is the toolkit wasn't very interesting. I don't have many buttons to press, and many of the best builds involve blowing through stamina with sustains and auto attack or just stunlocking enemy into oblivion with talents like shield bash. You have the same flowchart almost every time in take chokepoint -> taunt -> stun -> autoattack. Your character moves slow, hits invisible walls (especially for rogue if you're constantly trying to set up backstabs), and just feels painfully unresponsive.
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Post by jennica on Sept 17, 2024 19:56:21 GMT
So it's been a long time since I played Origins. What was it specifically about the class that people found less enjoyable? For me, the problem is the toolkit wasn't very interesting. I don't have many buttons to press, and many of the best builds involve blowing through stamina with sustains and auto attack or just stunlocking enemy into oblivion with talents like shield bash. You have the same flowchart almost every time in take chokepoint -> taunt -> stun -> autoattack. Your character moves slow, hits invisible walls (especially for rogue if you're constantly trying to set up backstabs), and just feels painfully unresponsive. You perfectly described my feelings. My favorite way to play as warriors in DAO is to set up tactics for them and then switch to mages. I find rogues a bit more interesting because at least you need to position them for backstabs which makes gameplay more engaging, but they still have the same problems as warriors.
And this is why in games with turn based/RTWP combat i tend to play as hybrid classes. I still prefer martial classes, but they tend to be more boring than spell casters due to less abilities.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 17, 2024 19:59:46 GMT
and still one of my favourite games to this day My favorite game of all time. Was a bit worried about playing Wicked Eyes and I found combat a bit boring and the experience disjointed that the spate of modern ARPGs might have spoiled me that I have been playing recently. But replaying it is such a treat and really the combat right now is kind of...on rails for me. Like its so casual I can just hold down the attack button cast the occasional ability and have a fun convo with the wife on the side. Veilguard's combat is likely going to be a lot more involved, at least at first, which has its own benefits but really appreciating how Inquisition has actually become a very feel good game to.
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 17, 2024 20:00:22 GMT
For me, the problem is the toolkit wasn't very interesting. I don't have many buttons to press, and many of the best builds involve blowing through stamina with sustains and auto attack or just stunlocking enemy into oblivion with talents like shield bash. You have the same flowchart almost every time in take chokepoint -> taunt -> stun -> autoattack. Your character moves slow, hits invisible walls (especially for rogue if you're constantly trying to set up backstabs), and just feels painfully unresponsive. You perfectly described my feelings. My favorite way to play as warriors in DAO is to set up tactics for them and then switch to mages. I find rogues a bit more interesting because at least you need to position them for backstabs which makes gameplay more engaging, but they still have the same problems as warriors.
And this is why in games with turn based/RTWP combat i tend to play as hybrid classes. I still prefer martial classes, but they tend to be more boring than spell casters due to less abilities.
Yeah, martial classes are often a conundrum in ttrpg inspired gameplay because they get outpaced so often and so easily by magic classes. Larian did quite a bit of fiddling with martials in BG3 to try and mitigate this issue, for example. (Although I love battlemaster warrior lol, I can break action economy so easily with it.) It’s why natural gishes like that paladin tend to be most popular classes.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 17, 2024 20:02:40 GMT
You perfectly described my feelings. My favorite way to play as warriors in DAO is to set up tactics for them and then switch to mages. I find rogues a bit more interesting because at least you need to position them for backstabs which makes gameplay more engaging, but they still have the same problems as warriors.
And this is why in games with turn based/RTWP combat i tend to play as hybrid classes. I still prefer martial classes, but they tend to be more boring than spell casters due to less abilities.
Yeah, martial classes are often a conundrum in ttrpg inspired gameplay because they get outpaced so often and so easily by magic classes. Larian did quite a bit of fiddling with martials in BG3 to try and mitigate this issue, for example. (Although I love battlemaster warrior lol, I can break action economy so easily with it.) ANother point to having ability limits: Balance.
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