fredvdp
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Post by fredvdp on Oct 11, 2024 12:58:36 GMT
So in light of this game coming out in a couple more weeks: - What do we think will be the most positively received aspect of the game? - What do we think will be the most criticized aspect of the game? I think the most criticised aspect might end up being something we don't know about yet, kind of like how we didn't know Dragon Age II would have recycled dungeons until reviews mentioned it.
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fistoffiori
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Post by fistoffiori on Oct 11, 2024 13:10:22 GMT
The templars who locked people up in their homes and burned them alive. People's bodies being farmed for red lyrium in future Redcliffe. The mayor who drowned his entire town. Yeah. DA has always been rather dark I think. Yup. D'Meta crossing and the Hossberg Wetlands look rather dark and diseased thanks to the blight. And D'Meta's crossing does have a story to it too... Wonder if we'll see full on body horror stuff like the centipede person thing from the Tevinter Nights story 'Hunger'. Maybe some weirdness in Nevarra too. We've not seen anything of it in the previews (aside from Bioware showing environmental stuff). I doubt Rivain has any horror though, it looks peaceful and almost like a nice beach location haha.
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Post by azarhal on Oct 11, 2024 13:21:40 GMT
The templars who locked people up in their homes and burned them alive. People's bodies being farmed for red lyrium in future Redcliffe. The mayor who drowned his entire town. Yeah. DA has always been rather dark I think. Yup. D'Meta crossing and the Hossberg Wetlands look rather dark and diseased thanks to the blight. And D'Meta's crossing does have a story to it too... Wonder if we'll see full on body horror stuff like the centipede person thing from the Tevinter Nights story 'Hunger'. Maybe some weirdness in Nevarra too. We've not seen anything of it in the previews (aside from Bioware showing environmental stuff). I doubt Rivain has any horror though, it looks peaceful and almost like a nice beach location haha. Rivain should have some amphibian monstruosities near those beaches going by an old concept art.
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Post by IllustriousT on Oct 11, 2024 13:22:01 GMT
I do think that compared to DA:O and DAII, that DAI was far less dark. Most of the "Dark" elements were handled offscreen or in a codex. Unless you read it or learned it through dialogue, you wouldn't really know. Without the visual elements, its typically difficult to really "get" how terrible something really is.
Skull for shard collecting = Terrible (Never saw it - can only find out if you explore Redcliff) Lyrium growing out of bodies - Fiona wasn't torn to pieces...it was docile for the most part.
It just doesn't settle the same in your gut or heart when playing as like the Deep Roads from DA:O or Hawke losing their Mom, who you see as a new model with stitches and torture evident. It was creepy - it FELT creepy and I HAD to experience it to complete the story.
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Post by jennica on Oct 11, 2024 13:24:28 GMT
I just fundamentally disagree with notion that dark equals over the top violence, or titty monsters in the millionth underground cave. Or at least, it's not very mature. But to go along with this notion, in Inquisition you have, *checks notes*: -Tranquil systematically murdered with their skulls mounted on sticks by Alexius -A companion who doesn't think you're a person until at least halfway through the game (if that) -A hunter who witnesses attempted rape in the Hinterlands -Blood magic as obvious substitute for gay conversion therapy -Sera's intense nihilism, her fear of the 'nothing' -Sera violently and graphically murdering a noble
-The existential terror of the Blight, particularly highlighted in Nightmare's realm -A potential relationship with Bull where he plays you the entire time -Blackwall graphic description of the brutal death of a dog -An entire group of ancient elves, a rapidly dwindling group of people, that you can murder -Cole if you turn him into a spirit without completing his quest, causing him to forget the original Cole entirely; as well, the fate that befell og Cole And like, I can keep going. These are just some of the ones I think of off the top of my head. It's very tiresome that there's an implication of 'less dark' because every other women npc you meet isn't mentioning how someone attempted to sexually assault her, or that body horror is only scary when it targets women's reproductive organs. I think the difference between DAO/DA2 and DAI is not about what actually happens in the game, but rather how how it's presented to the player. And oculara is a good example of that difference. Yes, it's fucked up that they are made from the skulls of the tranquil mages, but we learn it from reading the note. And a lot of other darker moments were hidden in the notes rather than shown to the player, which made DAI to feel safer and less dark. Previous games, I think, were more balanced in that regard. Especially DA2, DAO was too edgy for me sometimes.
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fistoffiori
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Post by fistoffiori on Oct 11, 2024 13:34:44 GMT
Yup. D'Meta crossing and the Hossberg Wetlands look rather dark and diseased thanks to the blight. And D'Meta's crossing does have a story to it too... Wonder if we'll see full on body horror stuff like the centipede person thing from the Tevinter Nights story 'Hunger'. Maybe some weirdness in Nevarra too. We've not seen anything of it in the previews (aside from Bioware showing environmental stuff). I doubt Rivain has any horror though, it looks peaceful and almost like a nice beach location haha. Rivain should have some amphibian monstruosities near those beaches going by an old concept art. Oh yeah! Some big thing with lots of legs was coming out of water, probably Rivain!
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Post by ClarkKent on Oct 11, 2024 13:35:06 GMT
The darker areas of Inquisition were generally reserved for codex entries, impersonal over the shoulder view NPC conversations, and of course some of the main companions.
These are all great, and I enjoyed experiencing them. Heck, I do recall thinking the writers must had a lot of fun letting loose, and adding these side details to the game, however, the darker side of DAI is clearly not given the same resources and emphasis as in prior games.
The brutality of the the first two DA games is shown to you first, and then told to you. This worked well.
I'm of the opinion that DAI would have actually done this too, but the game's development ran out of steam for everything that's not inner circle related, or main story. The main story itself generally lacked brutality, general adversity, or companion deaths so it did lead to the game leaning more towards high fantasy.
I use high fantasy, and Dark fantasy as loose term, but yes, I think there's a lot of in-between.
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Post by jennica on Oct 11, 2024 13:46:21 GMT
Yup. D'Meta crossing and the Hossberg Wetlands look rather dark and diseased thanks to the blight. And D'Meta's crossing does have a story to it too... Wonder if we'll see full on body horror stuff like the centipede person thing from the Tevinter Nights story 'Hunger'. Maybe some weirdness in Nevarra too. We've not seen anything of it in the previews (aside from Bioware showing environmental stuff). I doubt Rivain has any horror though, it looks peaceful and almost like a nice beach location haha. Rivain should have some amphibian monstruosities near those beaches going by an old concept art. Also, did i dream it or Rivain will have an old Grey Wardens fortress?
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Oct 11, 2024 13:51:29 GMT
Rivain should have some amphibian monstruosities near those beaches going by an old concept art. Also, did i dream it or Rivain will have an old Grey Wardens fortress? Yes. That's where the Lords of Fortune are based, I believe.
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Post by biggydx on Oct 11, 2024 14:13:32 GMT
So in light of this game coming out in a couple more weeks: - What do we think will be the most positively received aspect of the game? - What do we think will be the most criticized aspect of the game? I think the most criticised aspect might end up being something we don't know about yet, kind of like how we didn't know Dragon Age II would have recycled dungeons until reviews mentioned it. It's certainly a possibility.
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Post by flyingovertrout on Oct 11, 2024 15:23:11 GMT
I first played DAO when I had been heavily into pulp dark fantasy like Robert E. Howard (Solomon Kane, Conan, Kull, etc), and didn't really vibe with DAO at first because I was SO over elves and dwarves and magical orders with mages casting fireballs and shit. Sure it was brown and had some titties slapped onto a couple monsters and OOH RAPE ALLUSIONS! but it was just regular fantasy to me down to the evil Totally Not Orcs taking over the Totally Not Medieval Europe land and a Hey There's Literally No Prophecy So This Ain't Your Daddy's Fantasy hero shall rise to defeat the Yes It's A Classic Looking Fantasty Dragon But Has a Disease This Time main bad. Crom laughs at your quaint definition of dark fantasy.
I find that DA has gotten no less darker but definitely more of a unique identity with each subsequent installment (probably why I didn't love DA until 2 and DAI). I'll take the strong art design and a self-confident identity of the sequels over DAO's slightly edgy but imo regular fantasy any day. The body horror stylings of ancient false gods with inhuman geometries returned to literally reshape life should more than count as dark fantasy in both our definitions, anyway.
Edit: You want a real dark fantasy rpg? 2E AD&D's Dark Sun setting. That is metal-up-your-ass dark fantasy.
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I want to be gay in game. Romance is just option, Just let me be gay & stop force romance.
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Post by jediguardian on Oct 11, 2024 15:23:11 GMT
Another quiet day huh...
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Post by Little Bengel on Oct 11, 2024 15:25:28 GMT
It's under three weeks till it drops, we can afford a few quiet days now
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Post by illuminated11 on Oct 11, 2024 16:17:07 GMT
I just fundamentally disagree with notion that dark equals over the top violence, or titty monsters in the millionth underground cave. Or at least, it's not very mature. But to go along with this notion, in Inquisition you have, *checks notes*: -Tranquil systematically murdered with their skulls mounted on sticks by Alexius -A companion who doesn't think you're a person until at least halfway through the game (if that) -A hunter who witnesses attempted rape in the Hinterlands -Blood magic as obvious substitute for gay conversion therapy -Sera's intense nihilism, her fear of the 'nothing' -Sera violently and graphically murdering a noble
-The existential terror of the Blight, particularly highlighted in Nightmare's realm -A potential relationship with Bull where he plays you the entire time -Blackwall graphic description of the brutal death of a dog -An entire group of ancient elves, a rapidly dwindling group of people, that you can murder -Cole if you turn him into a spirit without completing his quest, causing him to forget the original Cole entirely; as well, the fate that befell og Cole And like, I can keep going. These are just some of the ones I think of off the top of my head. It's very tiresome that there's an implication of 'less dark' because every other women npc you meet isn't mentioning how someone attempted to sexually assault her, or that body horror is only scary when it targets women's reproductive organs. I think the difference between DAO/DA2 and DAI is not about what actually happens in the game, but rather how how it's presented to the player. And oculara is a good example of that difference. Yes, it's fucked up that they are made from the skulls of the tranquil mages, but we learn it from reading the note. And a lot of other darker moments were hidden in the notes rather than shown to the player, which made DAI to feel safer and less dark. Previous games, I think, were more balanced in that regard. Especially DA2, DAO was too edgy for me sometimes. Fair enough, I just file this more under execution than actual tone. That said, Inquisition is in large part about realizing that what you don't see is just as real as what you do, which is why those codex entries work for me in maintaining the bleakness of the setting and the themes of the game. One of the fundamental aspects of horror is what you don't see is often much scarier than what you do! But I agree DAII is tragic in a way the others aren't, because there's few ways to prevent Hawke from losing almost everything.
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Snakety69
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Post by Snakety69 on Oct 11, 2024 16:33:21 GMT
A lot of the heads just look too big to me. And when you put 'em on lithe and stumpy frames, it just looks weird. when you couple that with eh art style, a lot of these characters look like they were made by Pixar. Tat's not an inherently bad thing, but it just doesn't fit the world they're in. Then again, this game seems to be the final violent shove from dark to high fantasy that started a long time ago. So, I guess for those that accepted that notion long ago, it probably isn't that much a jarring big deal A lot of the heads may look too big to you because you're used to smaller heads on broader shoulders in games, and 8-9 heads (that's how artists measure human proportions) compared to more regular 7-7.5. Basically, I think you may need some refresher on how both real people and Pixar look. Because no, DAVe doesn't look like Pixar - it is rather mildly stylized, and it's quite funny to see people being like 'it's Pixar!" over that mild stylization, when they can't even tell that majority of humanoid models in other 'more realistic' games aren't actually that realistic. Also - is it really that violent of a shove when it started a long time ago? I was there 10 years ago when people were calling DAI "Disney" for the silliest of reasons, including a more vivid color palette (an argument I thought has died when Witcher 3 also used a lot of "Disney" colors). Also, DAO isn't that dark, and next chapters aren't that whimsy - and neither is DAVe from what we've seen. DA creators know that the dark moments look well when they're contrasted with lighter and more whimsical ones, which is why some of the most memorable bits of DAO today are actually the funny and lighthearted ones; it's not just broodmothers all the way down. I got a small-ish head and broad shoulders, and I know a fair amount of people that do as well. And since that's been the main look for the past games as well, I guess I'm.just too damn used to that look. Putting the proportions aside, I still stand by my "pixar" statement. What I mean by that is that everyone looks too damn smooth and perfect, and not at all like they've been living in a harsh and brutal world their whole life. Concerning the dark elements, other people have already said exactly what I what I mean. Yes, dark and brutal shit still happens in this world. But it looses its effect if it's rarely (if ever) shown. I'm not 100% saying this game is gonna be like that. For all I know, we just haven't seen it, and they're saving it so you can experience it when actually playing the game. But with a lot of things the current developers have done and said, I'm not so sure.
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Post by Reznore on Oct 11, 2024 16:33:56 GMT
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Post by TabithaTH on Oct 11, 2024 16:35:31 GMT
Ngl, The Hawke Mom stuff, I never really felt any horror when it happened. Then again, I generally never felt close to my Hawke, only through the companions' relationship, especially Varric. Like the only reason I felt bad at leaving Hawke in the Fade, was seeing Varric's reaction afterwards. In fact, for me, that was a pretty bleak moment in DAI.
And about the art style. I’ve seen a couple of reviewers who have referred to the artstyle as ‘refreshing’. If you’re used to seeing photorealism in every AAA game, I can see why it’d be a nice break. Personally, I’m not entirely sold on the style. However I’ve decided to try and look at it from this perspective. They’re not likely to change it at this stage and honestly, I will probably get used to it once I start playing.
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Post by illuminated11 on Oct 11, 2024 16:47:15 GMT
Ngl, The Hawke Mom stuff, I never really felt any horror when it happened. Then again, I generally never felt close to my Hawke, only through the companions' relationship, especially Varric. Like the only reason I felt bad at leaving Hawke in the Fade, was seeing Varric's reaction afterwards. In fact, for me, that was a pretty bleak moment in DAI. And about the art style. I’ve seen a couple of reviewers who have referred to the artstyle as ‘refreshing’. If you’re used to seeing photorealism in every AAA game, I can see why it’d be a nice break. Personally, I’m not entirely sold on the style. However I’ve decided to try and look at it from this perspective. They’re not likely to change it at this stage and honestly, I will probably get used to it once I start playing. For me, Hawke losing their mom was culmination of losing their entire family. Bethany/Carver in the beginning, then second one can either die, become a Grey Warden, or (in Bethany's case) wind up in a mage tower. Or a templar in Carver's case, an order that hates mage Hawke on principle. And then they lose their mother. So it's more sad than anything, a sadness that the companions definitely help bring home. Both the conversation with Aveline and the conversation with your love interest are very poignant in the aftermath of that event.
As for art style, I need to see it on my screen I think. A lot of what I don't like about it seems to come down to video compression more than anything.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 11, 2024 17:00:07 GMT
It's under three weeks till it drops, we can afford a few quiet days now Yeah othe rthan th eremainin gVow's and Vengeance part and th eLaunc htralier I don' tthin kew'll b eseeing anything else till th egam edrops they'v epretty muc hshowed everything off now
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Post by Andrew Waples on Oct 11, 2024 17:25:47 GMT
He doesn't like it when you call him Bones.
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Oct 11, 2024 17:41:24 GMT
He doesn't like it when you call him Bones. Nope he doesn't as we learned in the Vows and Vengeance.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Oct 11, 2024 18:14:34 GMT
Ngl, The Hawke Mom stuff, I never really felt any horror when it happened. Then again, I generally never felt close to my Hawke, only through the companions' relationship, especially Varric. Like the only reason I felt bad at leaving Hawke in the Fade, was seeing Varric's reaction afterwards. In fact, for me, that was a pretty bleak moment in DAI. And about the art style. I’ve seen a couple of reviewers who have referred to the artstyle as ‘refreshing’. If you’re used to seeing photorealism in every AAA game, I can see why it’d be a nice break. Personally, I’m not entirely sold on the style. However I’ve decided to try and look at it from this perspective. They’re not likely to change it at this stage and honestly, I will probably get used to it once I start playing. For me, Hawke losing their mom was culmination of losing their entire family. Bethany/Carver in the beginning, then second one can either die, become a Grey Warden, or (in Bethany's case) wind up in a mage tower. Or a templar in Carver's case, an order that hates mage Hawke on principle. And then they lose their mother. So it's more sad than anything, a sadness that the companions definitely help bring home. Both the conversation with Aveline and the conversation with your love interest are very poignant in the aftermath of that event.
As for art style, I need to see it on my screen I think. A lot of what I don't like about it seems to come down to video compression more than anything.
To me the storyline was fine, but the delivery was somewhat grating - the fact that we're heading to some sort of escalation was set-up well in advance; we've been on the track of a serial murderer dismembering women for quite some time, but kidnapping of Leandra and the reveal that the guy was trying to re-create the body of his deceased wife (and that Leandra is her spitting image, hence he wanted her head) is sprang on us so suddenly and intensely, that I question whether it was necessary to get the point you bring up across. Like, the thing you're talking about could as well have been delivered through death that wasn't so grotesque. And that's the key word for DA - grotesque. To me the darkness in DA didn't necessarily lie in visuals, but in themes woven across the story, as the imagery - including one in DAO - was deployed in a way that I've found almost too comical at times. Like, they're trying too hard, but how intentional is it? And IMO many visually dark things in DAO intentionally deploy an element of grotesque. The darkspawn, for example, to me were always the corrupted parodies of Thedas' inhabitants that appeared to draw inspiration not just from body horror, but gargoyles on gothic cathedrals. I see people complaining at new designs, yet somehow they don't find it funny that ogres in DAO/DA2 look like mutated Wreck-it Ralphs with comically large horns?? And several of the designs have really stupid grins. This is why I'm unbothered by new darkspawn design, as to me, they always veered strongly into grotesque territory, and that element has been preserved. As for things being more hidden in DAI compared to DAO... come on. We have a closeup to Corypheus' face melting and then him springing from a body nearby in a bloody, gore'y fountain. We see people slowly turning into corrupted crystal, etc, etc. And the fact that we learn of some of the horrors indirectly has been a thing since DAO. After all we don't see Laryn turning into broodmother, we're literally TOLD by Hespith what happened and only see the end result, while leaving the rest to imagination.
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Ice-Quinn
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"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Oct 11, 2024 18:23:20 GMT
I'm direct and call out the real rude person, the bully, and *I'm* uncivilized? Awesome.
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fistoffiori
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by fistoffiori on Oct 11, 2024 18:28:31 GMT
The templars who locked people up in their homes and burned them alive. People's bodies being farmed for red lyrium in future Redcliffe. The mayor who drowned his entire town. Yeah. DA has always been rather dark I think. Yup. D'Meta crossing and the Hossberg Wetlands look rather dark and diseased thanks to the blight. And D'Meta's crossing does have a story to it too... Wonder if we'll see full on body horror stuff like the centipede person thing from the Tevinter Nights story 'Hunger'. Maybe some weirdness in Nevarra too. We've not seen anything of it in the previews (aside from Bioware showing environmental stuff). I doubt Rivain has any horror though, it looks peaceful and almost like a nice beach location haha. Just realised my mistake - Horror of Hormak, not Hunger! That said, Hunger does have Werewolves, so they could totally make a comeback too!
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Post by Reznore on Oct 11, 2024 19:02:36 GMT
I'm direct and call out the real rude person, the bully, and *I'm* uncivilized? Awesome. I think SofaJockey ment the conversation might turn uncivilized. Not you. Either way, your wit is bordering on the legendary, and you're hilarious. Come to the dark side, (i mean character threads) and weave your wonderful inuendo.
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