The darker areas of Inquisition were generally reserved for codex entries, impersonal over the shoulder view NPC conversations, and of course some of the main companions.
These are all great, and I enjoyed experiencing them. Heck, I do recall thinking the writers must had a lot of fun letting loose, and adding these side details to the game, however, the darker side of DAI is clearly not given the same resources and emphasis as in prior games.
The brutality of the the first two DA games is shown to you first, and then told to you. This worked well.
I'm of the opinion that DAI would have actually done this too, but the game's development ran out of steam for everything that's not inner circle related, or main story. The main story itself generally lacked brutality, general adversity, or companion deaths so it did lead to the game leaning more towards high fantasy.
I use high fantasy, and Dark fantasy as loose term, but yes, I think there's a lot of in-between.
that's a pretty wide net to cast for the conclusion you reach.
It's also not exactly true. You run into a bunch of heads on stands in the wilderness, you run into where they are being stored, you then unlock a codex entry explaining what that was about. Is that really any less horrible?
You hear about the horrors Imshael is up to after seeing it for yourself, is that any less horrible?
Is the Temple of Dumat in the Corypheus path?
And on the story...
Is the spread of Red Lyrium including using people as farms...which we see In Hushed Whispers?
Is being force fed Red Lyrium in Champions of the Just?
How about the body horror and what Corypheus represents?
Or the psychological horror of Here Lies the Abyss?
Yes, presentation matters, DAO was very in your face about it. But I feel it does a disservice to Inquisition to ignore all the horror that game contains on the basis of that presentation.
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I was almost going to ask where in Inquisition we came across a bunch of heads on stands in the wilderness until I realized you meant the Oculara.
At first I was thinking you meant something like the heads of executed people up on London bridge in the medieval times and I was like "I don't remember that in Dragon Age Inquisition!"
I was almost going to ask where in Inquisition we came across a bunch of heads on stands in the wilderness until I realized you meant the Oculara.
At first I was thinking you meant something like the heads of executed people up on London bridge in the medieval times and I was like "I don't remember that in Dragon Age Inquisition!"
I'm glad I edited because my first attempt would have been even more confusing...I was going to say 'pike' initially.
Patreon (for my writing, posting chapters of my novel)
The darker areas of Inquisition were generally reserved for codex entries, impersonal over the shoulder view NPC conversations, and of course some of the main companions.
These are all great, and I enjoyed experiencing them. Heck, I do recall thinking the writers must had a lot of fun letting loose, and adding these side details to the game, however, the darker side of DAI is clearly not given the same resources and emphasis as in prior games.
The brutality of the the first two DA games is shown to you first, and then told to you. This worked well.
I'm of the opinion that DAI would have actually done this too, but the game's development ran out of steam for everything that's not inner circle related, or main story. The main story itself generally lacked brutality, general adversity, or companion deaths so it did lead to the game leaning more towards high fantasy.
I use high fantasy, and Dark fantasy as loose term, but yes, I think there's a lot of in-between.
that's a pretty wide net to cast for the conclusion you reach.
It's also not exactly true. You run into a bunch of heads on stands in the wilderness, you run into where they are being stored, you then unlock a codex entry explaining what that was about. Is that really any less horrible?
You hear about the horrors Imshael is up to after seeing it for yourself, is that any less horrible?
Is the Temple of Dumat in the Corypheus path?
And on the story...
Is the spread of Red Lyrium including using people as farms...which we see In Hushed Whispers?
Is being force fed Red Lyrium in Champions of the Just?
How about the body horror and what Corypheus represents?
Or the psychological horror of Here Lies the Abyss?
Yes, presentation matters, DAO was very in your face about it. But I feel it does a disservice to Inquisition to ignore all the horror that game contains on the basis of that presentation.
Seriously, how is 'exclude all the parts that are dark, focus on the rest which isn't dark' even a fair criticism? Like companions alone are one of if not the most important part of Dragon Age! In much the same way, Mahomes must regress to the mean...
And yeah, I agree with Tea that Dragon Age wants to tap into the grotesque, with varying results. In regards to Origins, it doesn't always land, but it has memorable moments where the darkspawn feel truly dirty and gross. Like the scene where flecks of spittle fly out of an ogre's mouth, it's disgusting and I love it. But the envy demon is gross and unsettling in its movements too, so it all remains very on par to me.
When I was a child I truly loved: Unthinking love as calm and deep As the North Sea. But I have lived, And now I do not sleep.
"I'm one of the few people you'll meet whose written more books than they've read." - Garth Marenghi (Author. Visionary. Dreamweaver. Plus actor.)
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
I've found that developers tend to start moving away from overtly mature visuals as they "age" in the industry. Same thing has happened with Bethesda and Obsidian. With Obsidian, think of the tone they set with Outer Worlds, and contrast that with Fallout New Vegas and Corporal Betsy being sexually assaulted by Cook-Cook.
That's not to say you still don't see over-the-top gore, mind you. But a lot of the even seedier stuff happens often times in the holotapes, or background dialogue. Even CDPR has tended to move away from some of these elements. For example, while you still have nudity in TW3, that games romance system is a far cry away from the tarot cards you'd get from bedding every romance in the first Witcher game.
I'm direct and call out the real rude person, the bully, and *I'm* uncivilized? Awesome.
I think SofaJockey ment the conversation might turn uncivilized. Not you. Either way, your wit is bordering on the legendary, and you're hilarious. Come to the dark side, (i mean character threads) and weave your wonderful inuendo.
I've found that developers tend to start moving away from overtly mature visuals as they "age" in the industry. Same thing has happened with Bethesda and Obsidian. With Obsidian, think of the tone they set with Outer Worlds, and contrast that with Fallout New Vegas and Corporal Betsy being sexually assaulted by Cook-Cook.
That's not to say you still don't see over-the-top gore, mind you. But a lot of the even seedier stuff happens often times in the holotapes, or background dialogue. Even CDPR has tended to move away from some of these elements. For example, while you still have nudity in TW3, that games romance system is a far cry away from the tarot cards you'd get from bedding every romance in the first Witcher game.
See, that's what bothers me - that overtly violent or otherwise iffy visuals are considered mature, while in reality they are often the epitome of juvenile. The fact that some people need enough overt signs of brutality to tell when something is mature is just... well, let's just say that I'm not impressed by these types.
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
I've found that developers tend to start moving away from overtly mature visuals as they "age" in the industry. Same thing has happened with Bethesda and Obsidian. With Obsidian, think of the tone they set with Outer Worlds, and contrast that with Fallout New Vegas and Corporal Betsy being sexually assaulted by Cook-Cook.
That's not to say you still don't see over-the-top gore, mind you. But a lot of the even seedier stuff happens often times in the holotapes, or background dialogue. Even CDPR has tended to move away from some of these elements. For example, while you still have nudity in TW3, that games romance system is a far cry away from the tarot cards you'd get from bedding every romance in the first Witcher game.
Think Darrah commented on this in one of the DAI vids so its there, so there has been some movement on this issue.
I just don't think it's as pronounced as many people seem to feel it is. And while visuals do exist and are an important means of telling a story they aren't the only way of telling a story. And a lot of this commentary seems to ignore the visuals/ environmental storytelling we do get. For the longest time nothing creeps me out more in DA like all the red lyrium growing all over the place given we know what it can do and what it is. Like I don't even want my character standing next to the stuff.
Patreon (for my writing, posting chapters of my novel)
I've found that developers tend to start moving away from overtly mature visuals as they "age" in the industry. Same thing has happened with Bethesda and Obsidian. With Obsidian, think of the tone they set with Outer Worlds, and contrast that with Fallout New Vegas and Corporal Betsy being sexually assaulted by Cook-Cook.
That's not to say you still don't see over-the-top gore, mind you. But a lot of the even seedier stuff happens often times in the holotapes, or background dialogue. Even CDPR has tended to move away from some of these elements. For example, while you still have nudity in TW3, that games romance system is a far cry away from the tarot cards you'd get from bedding every romance in the first Witcher game.
Indeed, the tarot cards were quite obscene, however no one here is suggesting Dragon Age Inquisition should have implemented these tarot card to make it's world more believable, and brutal.
I didn't find any of DAO's violence over the top. Of course that's subjective, but in terms of other subjective opinions I would say DAI relied a lot on environmental storytelling to convey it's darker edges, however, this environmental storytelling simply wasn't done that well. And when you rely upon environmental storytelling, that isn't particularly good, to carry the more brutal elements of the plot then these brutal elements will naturally fall by the wayside.
eonianshadow @eonianshadow Uh-oh, the Veil has opened in the wrong reality, and we have a guest! Sure she has good intentions, and doesn't intend to do anything inhumanly bad here. I'll go make her some tea
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Dragon Age The Veilguard Posts: 1,656 Likes: 4,647
eonianshadow @eonianshadow Uh-oh, the Veil has opened in the wrong reality, and we have a guest! Sure she has good intentions, and doesn't intend to do anything inhumanly bad here. I'll go make her some tea
She doesn't look anything like a sweet little halla!
One day, the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. When he rises, everyone will see. -Sandal Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a world to save. Again. -Inquisitor
eonianshadow @eonianshadow Uh-oh, the Veil has opened in the wrong reality, and we have a guest! Sure she has good intentions, and doesn't intend to do anything inhumanly bad here. I'll go make her some tea
I've found that developers tend to start moving away from overtly mature visuals as they "age" in the industry. Same thing has happened with Bethesda and Obsidian. With Obsidian, think of the tone they set with Outer Worlds, and contrast that with Fallout New Vegas and Corporal Betsy being sexually assaulted by Cook-Cook.
That's not to say you still don't see over-the-top gore, mind you. But a lot of the even seedier stuff happens often times in the holotapes, or background dialogue. Even CDPR has tended to move away from some of these elements. For example, while you still have nudity in TW3, that games romance system is a far cry away from the tarot cards you'd get from bedding every romance in the first Witcher game.
Indeed, the tarot cards were quite obscene, however no one here is suggesting Dragon Age Inquisition should have implemented these tarot card to make it's world more believable, and brutal.
I didn't find any of DAO's violence over the top. Of course that's subjective, but in terms of other subjective opinions I would say DAI relied a lot on environmental storytelling to convey it's darker edges, however, this environmental storytelling simply wasn't done that well. And when you rely upon environmental storytelling, that isn't particularly good, to carry the more brutal elements of the plot then these brutal elements will naturally fall by the wayside.
Ultimately this comes down to a value judgment, so I think we’ll have to agree to disagree. Personally, the environmental story telling was one of the stronger aspects of Inquisition. Seeing the blight spread across the approach, seeing the trenches across the exalted plains, a metaphor for the malaise of the Orlesian civil war, seeing Crestwood or the bog at night, soaked in rain and stricken by undead or the plague, hung bodies hanging from the rafters of abandoned homes… all these moments worked for me. Where Inquisition struggled was in a main plot stretched way too thin and creating often unnecessary mysteries, or anticlimactic answers to said mysteries, as well as bloated drudgery instead of actual side quests. But again, I don’t see that as related to tone. Just because something is done poorly doesn’t mean it’s not there. Tone and quality are not inherently related. Something can be light and happy and poignant, or dark and gloomy and complete dross.
As for Origins, it again depends on the threshold. But there were multiple serious moments in the game where I just laughed out loud instead, from the ridiculous amounts of blood, like we were in some b rate slasher film, to the goofy sex scenes to the rag doll body physics to ‘nah’ to bribing a guard with cookies to almost everything involving werewolves and Haven cult.
Last Edit: Oct 12, 2024 5:09:11 GMT by illuminated11
When I was a child I truly loved: Unthinking love as calm and deep As the North Sea. But I have lived, And now I do not sleep.
"I'm one of the few people you'll meet whose written more books than they've read." - Garth Marenghi (Author. Visionary. Dreamweaver. Plus actor.)
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I replayed every DA game the past few weeks and I do think DAI is dark and uncomfortable at times. It has been mentioned here that a lot is being done with environmental storytelling, and I love that. Finding the clues what happened to an area's inhabitants? Sad, eerie, awesome, because mostly it ended badly and in death, in a gruesome way. Plus, last night when I played, a Warden got her throat cut as a sacrifice in front of everyone. Plenty dark moments there.
DAO had its moments of course as well, and good atmosphere, but it also had some stupid things. I ended up switching off the blood because it looked ridiculous, over the top. And that comes from someone who usually likes such things.
It is again a matter of taste. I love psychological horror and vastly prefer it over gore, because they tell the better stories imo. And as for design and creepiness factor, I came from playing Silent Hill back in the day, so nothing can shock me anymore, haha! Those games had an incredibly scary atmosphere and monster design for me.
Can't wait to see what DAV cooked up. I hope we see more creepy stuff
"Do not fear the weapon. Fear the one wielding it." "That's what I love about you, buggy. You're like Sun Tzu with more eyes."
I love environmental storytelling but it tends to fall apart a bit if none of your companions react to it, like everyone walking past that red lyrium experimentation table with the dismembered corpse like it was another Tuesday in Thedas. If no one else cares, why should I?
"Give me a fully loaded Hornet and I'll shake the gates of heaven." -Aria Reilly
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The luddonarrative dissonance toward red lyrium is certainly frustrating in Inquisition, but I remember quite a few comments overall from companions regarding environmental storytelling. They’ll mention bodies burnt in the bog, express distress over captured Inquisition soldiers, note the drowned Crestwood villagers in the side cavern, Cole specifically will have quite a few comments about little discoveries, such as finding bodies in the basement of Storm Coast serial killer’s house.
When I was a child I truly loved: Unthinking love as calm and deep As the North Sea. But I have lived, And now I do not sleep.
"I'm one of the few people you'll meet whose written more books than they've read." - Garth Marenghi (Author. Visionary. Dreamweaver. Plus actor.)
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
I think SofaJockey ment the conversation might turn uncivilized. Not you. Either way, your wit is bordering on the legendary, and you're hilarious. Come to the dark side, (i mean character threads) and weave your wonderful inuendo.
When I grow up I want to be like Ice-Quinn.
They've already joined the dar kside jus tb ybein ga BSN'er
eonianshadow @eonianshadow Uh-oh, the Veil has opened in the wrong reality, and we have a guest! Sure she has good intentions, and doesn't intend to do anything inhumanly bad here. I'll go make her some tea
I first played DAO when I had been heavily into pulp dark fantasy like Robert E. Howard (Solomon Kane, Conan, Kull, etc), and didn't really vibe with DAO at first because I was SO over elves and dwarves and magical orders with mages casting fireballs and shit. Sure it was brown and had some titties slapped onto a couple monsters and OOH RAPE ALLUSIONS! but it was just regular fantasy to me down to the evil Totally Not Orcs taking over the Totally Not Medieval Europe land and a Hey There's Literally No Prophecy So This Ain't Your Daddy's Fantasy hero shall rise to defeat the Yes It's A Classic Looking Fantasty Dragon But Has a Disease This Time main bad. Crom laughs at your quaint definition of dark fantasy.
I find that DA has gotten no less darker but definitely more of a unique identity with each subsequent installment (probably why I didn't love DA until 2 and DAI). I'll take the strong art design and a self-confident identity of the sequels over DAO's slightly edgy but imo regular fantasy any day. The body horror stylings of ancient false gods with inhuman geometries returned to literally reshape life should more than count as dark fantasy in both our definitions, anyway.
Edit: You want a real dark fantasy rpg? 2E AD&D's Dark Sun setting. That is metal-up-your-ass dark fantasy.
F*ck you're speaking my language.
That's my feeling every time someone declared the "death of the franchise" after DAO. To me, that's when it actually became its own thing rather than another Baldurs Gate (in terms of popular appeal)
It's not that DAO isn't a great game but it was trying to satisfy some very definitive expectations of a very definitive type of game/world. Then DA2 came along, with impossible circumstances alround, so they went screw it, let's add all the Joss Whedon and spiky geometry we got, see what we have. That overdid it for most, so we dialed it back a bunch with DAI and arrived at something pretty unique.
I'm not saying there's no chance DAV could ruin it but they deserve the benefit of the doubt. I will say I find it appears to be in fact a bit over styled, but I thought the same of DAI when they released the first pictures of Vivienne. Also no one can tell how the art direction works in the wholeness of the experience.
Last Edit: Oct 12, 2024 15:03:15 GMT by hookntackle