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Post by river82 on Nov 19, 2024 0:10:28 GMT
... I don't know what to say. Balatro was being talked about everywhere for months. If you never heard of it then you're probably in very specialized gaming circles. Honestly more I think about it the more I think I did briefly hear of Balatro somewhere, but this could just be gaslighting myself to. It sold a million copies without any advertising. For that sort of thing to happen the advertising has to be done by content creators or word of mouth or both. People should have heard of it somewhere at the very least
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Post by colfoley on Nov 19, 2024 0:10:33 GMT
I find a better comparison that someone ordered a full course meal, eats just the breadsticks, then complains the meal wasn't filling. Sure its a valid opinion based on what you ate but you might have had a better time if you actually tried everything.
And I have forced myself to play through games I hated, didn't like, or even found very frustrating because A. heard they were very good so 'maybe they will get better' and B. because I bought it so it deserves a full playthrough at least once to see if it does actually get better.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 19, 2024 0:11:02 GMT
So, If someone left a theater say 10 or 40 minutes into a movie and left a review. You wouldn't have a problem with that? So, most rpg's are 40 hrs+; like 5 hours for some rpgs is just scratching the surface. Not a fair comparison at all come on. Two hours vs 40 hours is just not the same, especially if you are an adult Whatever, but what I am trying to get at is that I don't think it's fair to judge a game or any media really till you finish it.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 19, 2024 0:11:33 GMT
I find a better comparison that someone ordered a full course meal, eats just the breadsticks, then complains the meal wasn't filling. Sure its a valid opinion based on what you ate but you might have had a better time if you actually tried everything. And I have forced myself to play through games I hated, didn't like, or even found very frustrating because A. heard they were very good so 'maybe they will get better' and B. because I bought it so it deserves a full playthrough at least once to see if it does actually get better. I forced myself before, never felt it was worth it at the end.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 19, 2024 0:12:00 GMT
Yeah finally found my own thoughts on the matter and its just like...the list of Game of the Year candidates are two games I've never heard of, a DLC, a remake, and Astroboy. The only one that even feels remotely in the same league is Black Myth but really odd that with all that Veilguard wasn't nominated. And judging 'games of the year' just remains odd for me. Only manage to pick up one or two titles every so often so it always feels like a cheat to say 'well this is my Game of the Year'. Oh yeah I picked up Horizon Forbidden West as a new game this year but that is old, and definitley not in the same category of quality even if it was. But think Veilguard is easily going to shape up into a top five all time game for me. Yeah I'd as yVeilguard is top 5 for me too as it' sat leas ton pa rwith Inquisition and DAI i sm y3rd o fall tim efavourite game Onl yME2 and 3 bea tit. I definitel yseemyself playin gmultipl erun sof Veilguard too. Just sawith evrey othe Biowae rgame I own.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 19, 2024 0:12:45 GMT
I find a better comparison that someone ordered a full course meal, eats just the breadsticks, then complains the meal wasn't filling. Sure its a valid opinion based on what you ate but you might have had a better time if you actually tried everything. And I have forced myself to play through games I hated, didn't like, or even found very frustrating because A. heard they were very good so 'maybe they will get better' and B. because I bought it so it deserves a full playthrough at least once to see if it does actually get better. I forced myself before, never felt it was worth it at the end. I mean with Force Unleased and the Uncharted games I've played definitly not. But with both Horizon games they do have some things to recommend them. Just playing the ending and sticking through with it to the end did make the suffering and bad game design kind of worth it.
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Post by river82 on Nov 19, 2024 0:12:58 GMT
5 hours is plenty of time. If your game doesn't grip within 5 hours that's a game problem. But I understand people who try games for 2 hours and move on. Everybody's time deficient these days, and there's plenty of entertainment around that will grip people right from the start. So, If someone left a theater say 10 or 40 minutes into a movie and left a review. You wouldn't have a problem with that? So, most rpg's are 40 hrs+; like 5 hours for some rpgs is just scratching the surface. Is it a review from a member of the community? Of course, what's wrong with this. Why are you trying to clamp down on people giving their impressions? Leaving 30 mins into a movie because you hated it is valid, and if they want to leave that as their review there's nothing wrong with them doing so. They're not being paid to go through the entire experience and make their review all encompassing. If the review is coming from a professional, or a game journalist, THEORETICALLY they should be playing the entire game but we all know they don't. They have far too many games to go through so for those 100+ hour games they play a bit and leave an impression. That's more problematic but ultimately understandable
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Post by colfoley on Nov 19, 2024 0:13:46 GMT
Yeah finally found my own thoughts on the matter and its just like...the list of Game of the Year candidates are two games I've never heard of, a DLC, a remake, and Astroboy. The only one that even feels remotely in the same league is Black Myth but really odd that with all that Veilguard wasn't nominated. And judging 'games of the year' just remains odd for me. Only manage to pick up one or two titles every so often so it always feels like a cheat to say 'well this is my Game of the Year'. Oh yeah I picked up Horizon Forbidden West as a new game this year but that is old, and definitley not in the same category of quality even if it was. But think Veilguard is easily going to shape up into a top five all time game for me. Yeah I'd as yVeilguard is top 5 for me too as it' sat leas ton pa rwith Inquisition and DAI i sm y3rd o fall tim efavourite game Onl yME2 and 3 bea tit. I definitel yseemyself playin gmultipl erun sof Veilguard too. Just sawith evrey othe Biowae rgame I own. Feel like I will have to whip out my tier 1 game list again to see how many tier 1 games there actually are, maybe 7? But its definitley shaping up in a 'mid 90s' for me and this is definitley even before the ending so, upper tier 1.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 19, 2024 0:14:28 GMT
5 hours is plenty of time. If your game doesn't grip within 5 hours that's a game problem. But I understand people who try games for 2 hours and move on. Everybody's time deficient these days, and there's plenty of entertainment around that will grip people right from the start. So, If someone left a theater say 10 or 40 minutes into a movie and left a review. You wouldn't have a problem with that? So, most rpg's are 40 hrs+; like 5 hours for some rpgs is just scratching the surface. Most RPGs take their sweet time to properly set off (I personally like that, because I like slower-paced stories that take their time to make the universe feel lived-in), especially if they have companions to collect and a lot of initial setup - even vaunted BG3 can take up to 10 hours or more to properly start, as one can do almost entire 1st zone before even touching the main quest.
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Post by river82 on Nov 19, 2024 0:15:04 GMT
I find a better comparison that someone ordered a full course meal, eats just the breadsticks, then complains the meal wasn't filling. Sure its a valid opinion based on what you ate but you might have had a better time if you actually tried everything. And I have forced myself to play through games I hated, didn't like, or even found very frustrating because A. heard they were very good so 'maybe they will get better' and B. because I bought it so it deserves a full playthrough at least once to see if it does actually get better. I forced myself before, never felt it was worth it at the end. The opinions of "you need to play through the entire thing, then do it again, then deep dive the story with experts for 20 hours before your view is valid" are a joke. Honestly don't listen to these people, your time is way too valuable for this BS
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Post by andorvex on Nov 19, 2024 0:15:14 GMT
Not a fair comparison at all come on. Two hours vs 40 hours is just not the same, especially if you are an adult Whatever, but what I am trying to get at is that I don't think it's fair to judge a game or any media really till you finish it. Quite the opposite. I gave a game several hours to grip me, if it didn't deliver it doesn't worth my time. As for judging the game, depends what do you mean by that. If you are a professional or semi professional reviewer it is expected of you to finish, but I don't see why should you expect a player on steam to do the same. You as someone who reads the review should just take that into account, but it doesn't automatically means the criticism on that he did play isn't valuable.
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 19, 2024 0:17:18 GMT
So, If someone left a theater say 10 or 40 minutes into a movie and left a review. You wouldn't have a problem with that? So, most rpg's are 40 hrs+; like 5 hours for some rpgs is just scratching the surface. Not a fair comparison at all come on. Two hours vs 40 hours is just not the same, especially if you are an adult It's not really that different - if someone lacks time or commitment to spend enough time with something (whether it's 2 hours or 40 hours) they should at least not behave like they saw the whole thing.
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Post by phoray on Nov 19, 2024 0:18:25 GMT
nd I have forced myself to play through games I hated, didn't like, or even found very frustrating because A. heard they were very good so 'maybe they will get better' and B. because I bought it so it deserves a full playthrough at least once to see if it does actually get better. I told my spouse he doesn't have to finish his playthrough he started, he watched me play the game so he knows what's up. He said he wants to be able to say he played all the Dragon Age games. He really likes battle mechanics in games, will play them entirely for that. hates Veilguard Warrior and chose to play on Nightmare. No idea why he's committed.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 19, 2024 0:18:37 GMT
And since Inquisition was such a success, the logical next step was to pivot away from the design.... I don't think an open world would have saved this game, Andromeda was Inquisition without the good writing and it sucked. Inquisition still had plenty of good characters and quests and didn’t feel so immature. It respected the lore and the players choices If they only continued from what Tresspasser set up... I wasn't think about the OW there, but tone, decisions, and so forth. I think Veilguard's approach to exploration is actually pretty good, considering the amount of stuff the game has to cover. Speaking of covering ground, some of the criticisms strike me as a bit unfair. It's pretty clear that the game is designed to be a respectable series conclusion if it has to be, despite not really having enough budget for that after mismanagement set fire to so much of the cash. Sort of like DA2 in that regard.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 19, 2024 0:19:17 GMT
I forced myself before, never felt it was worth it at the end. The opinions of "you need to play through the entire thing, then do it again, then deep dive the story with experts for 20 hours before your view is valid" are a joke. Honestly don't listen to these people, your time is way too valuable for this BS I wouldn't go that far, but I think that if I'm consuming media that was recommended to me but simply doesn't resonate with me, the reason why doesn't really matter, because being stubborn and forcing myself to experience it fully might help me appreciate it, but from my experience, not to enjoy it. And there are way too many things competing for our attention for me to force myself to play a game or watch a show I'm not really into in the hope it will get good several hours from now
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Post by colfoley on Nov 19, 2024 0:20:03 GMT
So, If someone left a theater say 10 or 40 minutes into a movie and left a review. You wouldn't have a problem with that? So, most rpg's are 40 hrs+; like 5 hours for some rpgs is just scratching the surface. Most RPGs take their sweet time to properly set off (I personally like that, because I like slower-paced stories that take their time to make the universe feel lived-in), especially if they have companions to collect and a lot of initial setup - even vaunted BG3 can take up to 10 hours or more to properly start, as one can do almost entire 1st zone before even touching the main quest. Tis a good point. I also keep on going back to my first playthrough of DAI where the first 10 hours or so was just a big drain on me, if I had stopped then it would've been at best a tier 3 game and hell who knows what would've happened to me personally...but I kept on giving it a shot, In Your Heart Shall Burn happened, the game became an instant classic and the second half of the game was far stronger in terms of exploration and story, then Tresspasser happened, and here I am ten years later to tell you all about it. And even Veilguard only took about 5 hours for me to get invested but even then it just keeps getting better.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 19, 2024 0:20:56 GMT
Not a fair comparison at all come on. Two hours vs 40 hours is just not the same, especially if you are an adult It's not really that different - if someone lacks time or commitment to spend enough time with something (whether it's 2 hours or 40 hours) they should at least not behave like they saw the whole thing. That's moving the goalpost, I at least wasn't talking about people that behave like they experienced the whole thing, and if we are speaking of steam reviews, doing that is incredibly stupid when everyone can see you total
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Post by Andrew Waples on Nov 19, 2024 0:21:10 GMT
Whatever, but what I am trying to get at is that I don't think it's fair to judge a game or any media really till you finish it. Quite the opposite. I gave a game several hours to grip me, if it didn't deliver it doesn't worth my time. As for judging the game, depends what do you mean by that. If you are a professional or semi professional reviewer it is expected of you to finish, but I don't see why should you expect a player on steam to do the same. You as someone who reads the review should just take that into account, but it doesn't automatically means the criticism on that he did play isn't valuable. That's fine, but what I get annoyed by is people not giving it enough time and claiming it sucks just for what? Clout? They had no intention of buying it or caring about it in the first place. They just heard it from some YouTuber. That stuff is not helpful.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 19, 2024 0:23:08 GMT
Quite the opposite. I gave a game several hours to grip me, if it didn't deliver it doesn't worth my time. As for judging the game, depends what do you mean by that. If you are a professional or semi professional reviewer it is expected of you to finish, but I don't see why should you expect a player on steam to do the same. You as someone who reads the review should just take that into account, but it doesn't automatically means the criticism on that he did play isn't valuable. That's fine, but what I get annoyed by is people not giving it enough time and claiming it sucks just for what? Clout? They had no intention of buying it or caring about it in the first place. They just heard it from some YouTuber. That stuff is not helpful. I'm sure these people exist for every new game and I don't think you should care about them one bit
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Nov 19, 2024 0:35:10 GMT
Most RPGs take their sweet time to properly set off (I personally like that, because I like slower-paced stories that take their time to make the universe feel lived-in), especially if they have companions to collect and a lot of initial setup - even vaunted BG3 can take up to 10 hours or more to properly start, as one can do almost entire 1st zone before even touching the main quest. Tis a good point. I also keep on going back to my first playthrough of DAI where the first 10 hours or so was just a big drain on me, if I had stopped then it would've been at best a tier 3 game and hell who knows what would've happened to me personally...but I kept on giving it a shot, In Your Heart Shall Burn happened, the game became an instant classic and the second half of the game was far stronger in terms of exploration and story, then Tresspasser happened, and here I am ten years later to tell you all about it. And even Veilguard only took about 5 hours for me to get invested but even then it just keeps getting better. Yeah it kind gripped me straightaway in the prologu ewit heverything tha twas happeninjg. I tfelt like classic Varric and Harding that w emet in Inquisition. Nev esounded an intreestin gcharact retoo an das I'v ego tt opla ythe gam eI've really got to lik ehe r an followin ghe rstor yh asbeen interesting
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 19, 2024 0:41:10 GMT
That's fine, but what I get annoyed by is people not giving it enough time and claiming it sucks just for what? Clout? They had no intention of buying it or caring about it in the first place. They just heard it from some YouTuber. That stuff is not helpful. I'm sure these people exist for every new game and I don't think you should care about them one bit I'd love to ignore them, but we're getting to a point where spaces people gather to enjoy the game, or even public positive expression is invaded/attacked by people hell-bent to complain or say how people are wrong for liking the thing, and it's becoming unmanageable even with generous application of block button. Though I think, when talking about the above, we also have to talk about the decay of social media and how prevalent negativity in general is on them. Twitter, for example, was always very frustrating and difficult to discuss anything on it, never mind have a nuanced take (it's not a platform built for that at all), but to say that things are now exponentially worse is an understatement. With recent changes, I think 10 or 15 million people departed on Bluesky, and Bluesky in general - apart from being more chill, 'cuz it's still smaller - appears to be a lot more positive about e.g. Bioware and DAV than Twitter is, the algo of which just keep pointing me at people who have TAKES on BW/DA and will go for your throat even if you politely disagree with that take.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 19, 2024 0:51:19 GMT
Didn’t DA2s expansion get cancelled because it didnt sell well enough? No, it got canned because Awakening didn't sell. Big expansions were going out of style at the time, in favour of smaller story-based DLCs. The pendulum might be swinging back the other way, but we'll have to see if other developers take up the mantle of Shadow of the Erdtree. I don't expect Veilguard to get any further story content; Jedi: Fallen Order and Jedi: Survivor are probably the best points of comparison for recent single-player EA games and neither of them got any DLC even though they were successful.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 19, 2024 0:52:11 GMT
I'm sure these people exist for every new game and I don't think you should care about them one bit I'd love to ignore them, but we're getting to a point where spaces people gather to enjoy the game, or even public positive expression is invaded/attacked by people hell-bent to complain or say how people are wrong for liking the thing, and it's becoming unmanageable even with generous application of block button. Though I think, when talking about the above, we also have to talk about the decay of social media and how prevalent negativity in general is on them. Twitter, for example, was always very frustrating and difficult to discuss anything on it, never mind have a nuanced take (it's not a platform built for that at all), but to say that things are now exponentially worse is an understatement. With recent changes, I think 10 or 15 million people departed on Bluesky, and Bluesky in general - apart from being more chill, 'cuz it's still smaller - appears to be a lot more positive about e.g. Bioware and DAV than Twitter is, the algo of which just keep pointing me at people who have TAKES on BW/DA and will go for your throat even if you politely disagree with that take. I should make the jump myself. I'm just so stubborn.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Nov 19, 2024 0:53:08 GMT
Didn’t DA2s expansion get cancelled because it didnt sell well enough? No, it got canned because Awakening didn't sell. Big expansions were going out of style at the time, in favour of smaller story-based DLCs. The pendulum might be swinging back the other way, but we'll have to see if other developers take up the mantle of Shadow of the Erdtree. I don't expect Veilguard to get any further story content; Jedi: Fallen Order and Jedi: Survivor are probably the best points of comparison for recent single-player EA games and neither of them got any DLC even though they were successful. I would never say no to more content but the game doesn't need DLC at all tbh. DAI needed Trespasser at the very least. A Citadel-like DLC would be most appropriate, but that could be pushed as a content update in a smaller dose without big missions.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 19, 2024 0:59:16 GMT
No, it got canned because Awakening didn't sell. Big expansions were going out of style at the time, in favour of smaller story-based DLCs. The pendulum might be swinging back the other way, but we'll have to see if other developers take up the mantle of Shadow of the Erdtree. I don't expect Veilguard to get any further story content; Jedi: Fallen Order and Jedi: Survivor are probably the best points of comparison for recent single-player EA games and neither of them got any DLC even though they were successful. I would never say no to more content but the game doesn't need DLC at all tbh. DAI needed Trespasser at the very least. A Citadel-like DLC would be most appropriate, but that could be pushed as a content update in a smaller dose without big missions. Yeah something I have heard about the end game recently makes me think BioWare made at least one mistake and a post credits patch like Larian added for BG III wouldn't be remiss.
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