I vaguely remember Mark Darrah or Mike Laidlaw staying that they put out too much information too soon for DAI, so they may make an active effort to trim it back until closer to release.
I remember this comment from Mike from when he was still at BW...
Da1AnOnlyCrazy @da1anonlycrazy hypothetically if some one were to announce say a open world fantasy RPG when will be a good time to do so?
Mike Laidlaw @mike_Laidlaw 6 months before it’s in stores, if Fallout 4 is any indication.
- And as I've mentioned before, I'm a fan of shorter run-ups to launch for those reasons (TMI). And hype fatigue is a real thing. Hold back on showing gameplay until the studio is at least reasonably confident it'll be indicative of the final game. Showing off some overly-idealistic vertical slice a year before launch is just a recipe for setting unrealistic expectations.
Theres other things they can talk about and show before gameplay. For example one of their big moneymakers: companions. Also that ‘nothing until six months’ is rich after they released a teaser a year ago and won’t shut up about “ooh look at all this stuff we can’t show you lol”. If they are going to constantly tease, at least make it worthwhile. Otherwise they’re just being dicks.
I remember this comment from Mike from when he was still at BW...
Da1AnOnlyCrazy @da1anonlycrazy hypothetically if some one were to announce say a open world fantasy RPG when will be a good time to do so?
Mike Laidlaw @mike_Laidlaw 6 months before it’s in stores, if Fallout 4 is any indication.
- And as I've mentioned before, I'm a fan of shorter run-ups to launch for those reasons (TMI). And hype fatigue is a real thing. Hold back on showing gameplay until the studio is at least reasonably confident it'll be indicative of the final game. Showing off some overly-idealistic vertical slice a year before launch is just a recipe for setting unrealistic expectations.
Theres other things they can talk about and show before gameplay. For example one of their big moneymakers: companions. Also that ‘nothing until six months’ is rich after they released a teaser a year ago and won’t shut up about “ooh look at all this stuff we can’t show you lol”. If they are going to constantly tease, at least make it worthwhile. Otherwise they’re just being dicks.
Oh I agree that showing this teaser was... not the best idea. I think the motivation behind it was less DA-related, and more studio related - BW is still alive, we're still making RPGs... There was a lot of pessimism at the time, and I think this was more a move to reassure to the fans.
But 5-6 months is more than enough time to market your game. Just have a short, intense marketing campaign, don't go overboard revealing too much, then the game is in your hands before hype fatigue sets in. As I've said before, the fandom is like a sleeping beast. But once you wake it, it wants to be fed - constantly. I remember once during the run-up to DA:I that BW went two whole weeks without showing something new, and the fandom would. not. stop. pestering. them.
I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their marketing. In that ~6 month period, they really need a solid, structured reveal plan from start to launch. I think they may have had a loose plan with their previous games, but it felt like they largely winged it, and further complicated by development issues.
Post by ellanathehamster on Jan 25, 2020 20:47:31 GMT
I still feel like they should definitely tell beforehand who is romanceable and by whom, like they did in DAI. MEA was such a mess in that regard, it was astonishing.
I still feel like they should definitely tell beforehand who is romanceable and by whom, like they did in DAI. MEA was such a mess in that regard, it was astonishing.
On the one hand, I can completely understand that - for example, I passed on everyone else and tried romancing Suvi with a male Ryder. But at the same time I can't really fault BW for taking that approach. I mean, I get the idea that you should discover this on your own in-game, even it means you get shot down...
If they were going to make a DA show, I would much rather they shoot for something outside the games. I can only imagine the outrage, mine included, if they essentially make one Warden or Inquisitor canon. They have lots of lore and world to tell a story in outside of the ones they already told. They could reference events and NPCs without limiting the way people play their characters.
I still feel like they should definitely tell beforehand who is romanceable and by whom, like they did in DAI. MEA was such a mess in that regard, it was astonishing.
On the one hand, I can completely understand that - for example, I passed on everyone else and tried romancing Suvi with a male Ryder. But at the same time I can't really fault BW for taking that approach. I mean, I get the idea that you should discover this on your own in-game, even it means you get shot down...
Fair point. Though I personally like to know my options, I don't like to getting regected
I still feel like they should definitely tell beforehand who is romanceable and by whom, like they did in DAI. MEA was such a mess in that regard, it was astonishing.
Yeah, it’d be nice to know who is available and which have sex or not so I don’t have to blindly walk through a minefield hoping I got lucky and not wasted a dozen hours.
If they were going to make a DA show, I would much rather they shoot for something outside the games. I can only imagine the outrage, mine included, if they essentially make one Warden or Inquisitor canon. They have lots of lore and world to tell a story in outside of the ones they already told. They could reference events and NPCs without limiting the way people play their characters.
How would people actually be limited? Telling me that the TV Warden did X is like telling me that my third Warden did X. True, but not relevant to the current run.
If they were going to make a DA show, I would much rather they shoot for something outside the games. I can only imagine the outrage, mine included, if they essentially make one Warden or Inquisitor canon. They have lots of lore and world to tell a story in outside of the ones they already told. They could reference events and NPCs without limiting the way people play their characters.
Yeah, same reason I was nervous about the KOTOR movies rumors or the supposed reboot.
Theres other things they can talk about and show before gameplay. For example one of their big moneymakers: companions. Also that ‘nothing until six months’ is rich after they released a teaser a year ago and won’t shut up about “ooh look at all this stuff we can’t show you lol”. If they are going to constantly tease, at least make it worthwhile. Otherwise they’re just being dicks.
Oh I agree that showing this teaser was... not the best idea. I think the motivation behind it was less DA-related, and more studio related - BW is still alive, we're still making RPGs... There was a lot of pessimism at the time, and I think this was more a move to reassure to the fans.
But 5-6 months is more than enough time to market your game. Just have a short, intense marketing campaign, don't go overboard revealing too much, then the game is in your hands before hype fatigue sets in. As I've said before, the fandom is like a sleeping beast. But once you wake it, it wants to be fed - constantly. I remember once during the run-up to DA:I that BW went two whole weeks without showing something new, and the fandom would. not. stop. pestering. them.
I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their marketing. In that ~6 month period, they really need a solid, structured reveal plan from start to launch. I think they may have had a loose plan with their previous games, but it felt like they largely winged it, and further complicated by development issues.
Definitely agree with you. I enjoyed DAI but the hype fatigue was real, the marketing was all over the place, and I didn't feel like I was surprised by much in the game, because so much had been revealed beforehand. And it's hard to just 'not look' at a trailer or other reveal when every one else is going to be talking about and referencing it elsewhere.
Last Edit: Jan 26, 2020 0:15:57 GMT by PCthug: Added a bit.
Always remember that faith sprung from a barren branch.
If they were going to make a DA show, I would much rather they shoot for something outside the games. I can only imagine the outrage, mine included, if they essentially make one Warden or Inquisitor canon. They have lots of lore and world to tell a story in outside of the ones they already told. They could reference events and NPCs without limiting the way people play their characters.
How would people actually be limited? Telling me that the TV Warden did X is like telling me that my third Warden did X. True, but not relevant to the current run.
I don't think people would react with enthusiasm to a story that is 'just one among millions of alternatives, including that drunken playthrough someone did in 2011 with a naked Aeducan'.
The idea of "it's just one of many alternative universes!" is about as despised as a character waking up and concluding that "it was all a dream!". Generally speaking, the audience usually prefers something with a bit more substance. Even in cases of DA comic book or book tie-ins people expect the story to have at least some influence on existing canon (and they do)... and a multi-million TV production is supposed to just be one of many world-states and with disposable main character?
I could see this happening as a cooky indie project, but definitely not a production meaning to attract anyone outside of DA fanbase. And a lot of DA fans would indeed be pissed, because choices producers would make and BW approve would have been seen as more valid as theirs in their PTs, just like 'default' heroes are often seen as... well... default.
Last Edit: Jan 26, 2020 2:37:36 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Ryan Benno @bryanrenno Hey game devs: what's the first task you every got working professionally?
11.5 years ago I was asked to UV a character's clothing as an atlas and make an example texture. It was heavily inspired bg Hulk Hogan Hulkamania outfit and colors.
"Play through the entirety of DAO so you're familiar with the content and the parts of the game."
I had two weeks to do so.
I should follow up that my next task was "Do these regression tests on the consoles. The test levels don't work on them and the only level that currently loads in memory is the Dalish Elf origin.
Lots of creative ways to test systems in that level....
I probably went through the Dalish Elf Origin at least 500 times...
This later included Ostagar. Oh the times I've heard Duncan say he is sorry to Jory.
How would people actually be limited? Telling me that the TV Warden did X is like telling me that my third Warden did X. True, but not relevant to the current run.
I don't think people would react with enthusiasm to a story that is 'just one among millions of alternatives, including that drunken playthrough someone did in 2011 with a naked Aeducan'.
The idea of "it's just one of many alternative universes!" is about as despised as a character waking up and concluding that "it was all a dream!". Generally speaking, the audience usually prefers something with a bit more substance. Even in cases of DA comic book or book tie-ins people expect the story to have at least some influence on existing canon (and they do)... and a multi-million TV production is supposed to just be one of many world-states and with disposable main character?
I could see this happening as a cooky indie project, but definitely not a production meaning to attract anyone outside of DA fanbase. And a lot of DA fans would indeed be pissed, because choices producers would make and BW approve would have been seen as more valid as theirs in their PTs, just like 'default' heroes are often seen as... well... default.
I literally do not understand how you're using "valid" here. Understanding it may depend on an emotional reaction I just don't have.
And isn't the multiple possible universes thing simply true? Even if I only play a game once, I'm not the only person playing it.
Put another way, why is something that's been done since forever in D&D toxic for Bioware?
I don't think people would react with enthusiasm to a story that is 'just one among millions of alternatives, including that drunken playthrough someone did in 2011 with a naked Aeducan'.
The idea of "it's just one of many alternative universes!" is about as despised as a character waking up and concluding that "it was all a dream!". Generally speaking, the audience usually prefers something with a bit more substance. Even in cases of DA comic book or book tie-ins people expect the story to have at least some influence on existing canon (and they do)... and a multi-million TV production is supposed to just be one of many world-states and with disposable main character?
I could see this happening as a cooky indie project, but definitely not a production meaning to attract anyone outside of DA fanbase. And a lot of DA fans would indeed be pissed, because choices producers would make and BW approve would have been seen as more valid as theirs in their PTs, just like 'default' heroes are often seen as... well... default.
I literally do not understand how you're using "valid" here. Understanding it may depend on an emotional reaction I just don't have.
And isn't the multiple possible universes thing simply true? Even if I only play a game once, I'm not the only person playing it.
Put another way, why is something that's been done since forever in D&D toxic for Bioware?
"Toxic for Bioware"?
How many D&D movies are there and how popular or well-received are they exactly? When was the last time any RPG has been adapted to TV or movie and didn't end up as a slog or a hilarious mess? (btw. Witcher doesn't count, as they are adapting Sapkowski's original book series and not the games)
This isn't about 'emotional reaction' you don't have - you just seem to be somewhat resistant to understanding that a story told through one medium doesn't necessarily translates well/easily to another.
Both D&D and Dragon Age (or TES) are RPG games - it's part of their appeal to have malleable narrative and alternative storylines. Most playthroughs are similarly valid, so they can exist alongside one another in relative peace (yet, people can still can argue which choices are more proper than others or what is part of canon or not, etc).
But, aside from niche or experimental stuff, mediums like TV shows or movies or books are linear in nature. Once something happens, it happens and it's canon - to a point that when if it doesn't happen, or only sorta vaguely happens but can be easily negated, is usually considered just bad storytelling. They also lack the possibility of presenting other angles or responses from different characters, because - again - they're linear, and (aside from some specific cases), that form of storytelling is shut basically entirely for them, when it's one of the draws to the story of the game.
I really don't see how you can think that this will work in any way, at least when it comes to adaptation of the main storyline of DA games. It won't appeal to hardcore fans and would serve mostly to piss them off. Without a doubt choices made in TV series would be seen as more valid, because they'd be getting an expensive treatment other world-states won't. People can get pissy when tie-ins appear to mess with their canons and you think a multi-million TV series won't?
Especially if the series is supposed to bring new people in and thus be a new 'default'? At the same time I fail to see how it's going to bring any meaningful number of new audience to the universe, because of the whole "the entire TV series may not have really happened as it was presented", or because of the linear structure of the story, which virtually cancels out one of the most appealing aspects of games like DA or ME.
It'd be a complete and utter mess IMO. A side story set somewhere in the universe or at some point in history I can see being done - in fact it has already been done, even if on a small'ish scale. But adapting the main storyline is a fool's errand and entities like EA or Netflix wouldn't consider it worth the effort. Heck, Witcher only got TV show because books were already there (also, those who enjoy 'so bad it's good' shows can search for Polish adaptations, as they are triple-distilled essence of CRINGE).
TL;DR version: saying "I'm not the only person playing it" is not an approach that works when watching TV series.
Last Edit: Jan 29, 2020 4:44:36 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Oh I agree that showing this teaser was... not the best idea. I think the motivation behind it was less DA-related, and more studio related - BW is still alive, we're still making RPGs... There was a lot of pessimism at the time, and I think this was more a move to reassure to the fans.
But 5-6 months is more than enough time to market your game. Just have a short, intense marketing campaign, don't go overboard revealing too much, then the game is in your hands before hype fatigue sets in. As I've said before, the fandom is like a sleeping beast. But once you wake it, it wants to be fed - constantly. I remember once during the run-up to DA:I that BW went two whole weeks without showing something new, and the fandom would. not. stop. pestering. them.
I think there's a lot of room for improvement in their marketing. In that ~6 month period, they really need a solid, structured reveal plan from start to launch. I think they may have had a loose plan with their previous games, but it felt like they largely winged it, and further complicated by development issues.
I agree with you, but I've seen at least a couple recent articles that seemed strangely certain that the game would be announced this year. Which wouldn't surprise me. I remember how ME:A made it to three E3s in a row, even though there was barely anything to show. Or the 2013 "Fires Above" trailer for Inquisition, which came out about a year and a half ahead of time and showed nothing of consequence. Or how the gameplay in 2014 bore little resemblance to what ended up in the game six months later.
Again, I think the ideal time to announce games is 6-12 months before the anticipated release date, absent any need for earlier audience engagement i.e. crowdfunding, playtesting, etc., and that's mostly for indie and AA. But while developers may express interest in Fallout 4's strategy, it does not follow they will execute it. Fallout 4 released in 2015, and its approach to marketing didn't have any perceivable impact on ME:A or Anthem. I seem to recall that even CDPR expressed admiration for that promotional campaign, but that hasn't been reflected at all in the run up to Cyberpunk 2077.
If the next DA is expected to arrive in 2022, past experiences do suggest there will be at least a vague in-engine story trailer sometime this year, probably at E3, a la "Fires Above" or "Ghost Riders in the Sky." Not a terribly exciting prospect, but alas.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
I still feel like they should definitely tell beforehand who is romanceable and by whom, like they did in DAI. MEA was such a mess in that regard, it was astonishing.
Yeah, it’d be nice to know who is available and which have sex or not so I don’t have to blindly walk through a minefield hoping I got lucky and not wasted a dozen hours.
They could do a subpage on the game's site when we get closer. Or a paragraph on the bottom/side/whatever on the "companions" page. Something clearly labelled that you have to click on. That way people who want to know can, and people who want go in blind have a chance of doing so if they don't click that and avoid social media. But it'd definitely work in that kind of format closer to launch than in the early marketing.
"Odin è un nome ispirato alla mitologia nordica, ma in russo vuol dire qualcos'altro... significa uno! Chissà poi perché mi sarò scelto un nome russo?" Uno. PKNA
"Odin is a name ispired by norse mithology. However in russian it means something else... It means one! Why did I choose a russian name, I wonder?" Uno. PKNA
So ... is the meeting room named Solas? I don’t follow.
I'm going to make a prediction: there will be a new #BardSongs tweet either tomorrow or Thursday.
Yes, this particular meeting room is named Solas. They have 3 floors of an office tower and multiple meeting rooms so I imagine they're all named after characters so people remember where they're supposed to meet other members of their team.
So ... is the meeting room named Solas? I don’t follow.
I'm going to make a prediction: there will be a new #BardSongs tweet either tomorrow or Thursday.
Yes, this particular meeting room is named Solas. They have 3 floors of an office tower and multiple meeting rooms so I imagine they're all named after characters so people remember where they're supposed to meet other members of their team.
They're *mostly* named after locations in BW games, this is one of the few exceptions. There is one called The Hinterlands but I don't like to book meetings there - people tend to get stuck in there for far too long instead of just advancing their crit path making decisions.
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Yes, this particular meeting room is named Solas. They have 3 floors of an office tower and multiple meeting rooms so I imagine they're all named after characters so people remember where they're supposed to meet other members of their team.
They're *mostly* named after locations in BW games, this is one of the few exceptions. There is one called The Hinterlands but I don't like to book meetings there - people tend to get stuck in there for far too long instead of just advancing their crit path making decisions.
"Kneel before the Lord Dragon, or you will be knelt." 21 Feb 2019 at 6:59am - It has not been forgotten. It will not be forgiven. We've now met seven times... Revenge is ice cream - Serza, April 2020 Also known as Mike, David, Scott or Bruce
Yes, this particular meeting room is named Solas. They have 3 floors of an office tower and multiple meeting rooms so I imagine they're all named after characters so people remember where they're supposed to meet other members of their team.
They're *mostly* named after locations in BW games, this is one of the few exceptions. There is one called The Hinterlands but I don't like to book meetings there - people tend to get stuck in there for far too long instead of just advancing their crit path making decisions.
Well technically it’s still named after a location since Solas is a place in Tevinter.
But at the same time I can't really fault BW for taking that approach. I mean, I get the idea that you should discover this on your own in-game, even it means you get shot down...
