Schmooples' Den! The DA News Discussion Thread

Yea, I also live in parts of the world where cities (and also streets or regions or significant locations) change names a considerable lot for political, historical or administrative reasons, which is why to me changes like this are really nothing unusual.

You are still missing my point. Qarinus, not Quarinus, was not just a city but an ancient kingdom that then became part of the ancient Imperium. The original Neromenian tribe that founded the kingdom were presumably called the Qarins or something similar because the kingdom was named after them. The name has great antiquity and a relevance as such to both the local regional people but even those in Minrathous. None of the cities you have cited as examples of name changes can claim as much. As someone has already pointed out, making the change is equivalent to modern Italians suddenly deciding to rename Rome.



I had already referred to this period of history. Actually the southern Chantry's Exalted Marches were directed further east. Whilst the presence of those armies in Antiva and Rivain may have taken some of the heat off Tevinter, they still had to win back Qarinus and later Seheron on their own and did so during the Storm Age, long before the overall war with the Qunari ended. It is likely that the Qun relinquished Seheron in order to concentrate their efforts further west and south and also because much of its navy had been destroyed in a gigantic sea battle on the Nocen Sea but nevertheless Tevinter could rightly regard the re-taking of both its major eastern city and island colony as a significant triumph over the Qun. This is why I suggested that if they changed the name then it might have made more sense because no major sea battle since could compare. The most recent previous engagement on mainland Tevinter was in 9:11 and was directed at Qarinus and its surrounding region. However, on that occasion the Qun never succeeded in capturing the city as Tevinter legions bolstered by mage fire-power were able to drive them back and the Kathaban forced to call off the mainland campaign in order to return and defend Seheron. So the major victory would seem to have been that of the Tevinter army not the navy.

Still I assume this must be the period in which the battle took place that resulted in the name change. Which makes me wonder how the Qunari managed to catch Tevinter off guard this time round because Qarinus/Ventus is a strategically important city and it is obvious that the Qun would want to take it in the first wave of any campaign against mainland Tevinter and in the comic series people seemed aware of the likelihood of imminent invasion. So Tevinter had to be very lax not focus efforts on defending it and having strong patrols of the region surrounding it, bearing in mind the previous assault had only been 30 years or so ago and at that time the legions did seem to be doing their job properly because they were able to repel the attack.

Emily (aka Domino) Taylor pentapod
BioWare apparently trying to fuel us with 100% pure spun sugar today ... what can go wrong? 😮

Er... I've specifically given an example of a much bigger, older and historically relevant IRL city compared to one the like of Quarinus in order to drive the point home that if much bigger and weightier real cities can change names for political, historical or administrative reasons then changing a name of an important but not super-special fictional city in the Imperium (because it ain't as relevant as you're trying to make it seem) isn't that big of a deal, especially if there isn't anything in the lore or story preventing such a change.

And there really isn't.

Quarinus may be a historical name derived from ancient tribe (although the suggestion from writers at times is that most big cities in the Imperium are actually Elvhen in origin, just repainted and... heh heh... frequently renamed), but so far there realllllly is no sign that "local regional people" are either major players in Tevinter who throw name of city behind them or feel strong ties to their pre-Tevinter roots.

Certainly Dorian - whose family is deeply tied to Qarinus - makes no claims that would suggest that in the slightest. He's a Vint through and through. So why would people who think of themselves as Vints would try and honor a period of time when they weren't yet Vints, nor were special in pre-Vint times compared to others? Didn't you say that the city was peacefully absorbed into Tevinter because its Queen feared aggressive conquest otherwise? It's tribe of Tevinters and city of Minrathous that matters the most across the history of Tevinter Imperium.

And no, it's very much not as if modern Italians suddenly changed the name of Rome  Not only Quarinus is not an equivalent of Rome (never a capital city or center of the Imperium, or some sort of seat of people who hold disproportionate sway over national matters, like Florence was for House of Medici, for example) it currently holds mostly strategic significance due to its proximity to Seheron - and what's important in this factoid is that (unlike modern Italy) Tevinter has been locked in prolonged conflict with a nation that presents genuine existential threat to them (and the rest of Thedas).

And that's not only because Qunari are bent on conquering the rest of the world, but because of their aggressively different outlook on magic - if they win that'd be the definitive end of all things Tevinter. So should we be surprised that their culture reflects this conflict in more or less significant ways, when it basically became a significant part of their modern culture? What is more important from perspective of modern Vint than resistance against the Qun?

In fact, we know that 'preserving history and culture' in Tevinter or seeking greater glory for the nation is increasingly taking a back seat. It's cited as one of reasons that drives many who have joined the Venatori. It's noted in Calpernia's story that Minrathous, as is the rest of the Imperium, is looking increasingly more disheveled. We know that despite trying to make appearances to the contrary the conflict is much more straining for the Imperium than it is to Qunandar (banter between Dorian and Bull where IB laughs at the idea that the Qunari were at war with Tevinter all this time) and we know from Magekiller that Archon Radonis considers being a bulwark against the Qunari to be of paramount strategic and political importance (to a point that he's willing to assassinate some of the most prominent and powerful Vint nobles who have sided with the Venatori to curb the idea of Making Tevinter Great Again).

In other words, there's nothing from the standpoint of lore or "Tevinter spirit" that would make this change problematic. It's not sudden (from in-universe perspective) nor it goes against anything in the story and, in fact, can be reasonably argued that it's a pointed reflection of current state of affairs in Tevinter.Again - regardless whether the battle to re-take the city has been won and regardless whether the victory on Ventus Straits is comparable in scope or significance (it could be argued that it was... because the Vints renamed the city to honor it ) the point I am making is that it was a battle to re-take what was LOST. A fairly recent battle that has protected the city from being re-taken again with no need to call another March (Imperial or not) would simply be more appealing regardless how gigantic that Nocen Sea battle was. It would boost the idea that Tevinter didn't diminish enough to not being able to push back the Qunari threat anymore - more of a hopeful feeling/propaganda than reality, as proven by events in the comic book.
I'm fairly sure that a lot of rich nobles more or less secretly supporting the Venatori and sending oodles of money and people to support Cory and sneakily conquer the South must've left a toll - namely holes in coffers and security. Corruption has likely played its part too - and I'm not just talking about internal corruption. We know that Qunari can and will undermine countries or prominent organizations from within whenever they can in order to to prime them for invasion, with events in Trespasser being the most overt and spectacular attempt at it.

Also, here's the banter I mentioned before:

SPOILER: Click to show

Dorian: What does the Qunari priesthood tell your people about losing the war?
Iron Bull: Ehn. The usual. Water comes, water goes, but eventually the tides wear away the mountain. Blah, blah, blah.
Dorian: They've been fighting Tevinter for centuries and still haven't won.
Iron Bull: Wait, you think we've been at war all this time?
Dorian: It's barely an eye-watering slap fight, I'll grant you, but every now and again it heats up.
Iron Bull: (Chuckles.) That's just force of habit. A real invasion's different.
Dorian: What are they waiting for?
Iron Bull: Don't know. Someone to tell someone to tell someone it's on again, I guess.

The suggestion here is that the major difference now compared to before is that the Qunari are actually serious about the invasion.

Which means that if Vints thought that their victory against them 30 years ago was meaningful then they have vaaaastly underestimated the Qunari and are basically neck-deep in serious trouble (so the name change can be argued as a consequential, expository storytelling detail if looked at it from this perspective).

What this suggests is also that I may yet be correct about DA4's main setting - basically being holed-up in Minrathous, which may remain the only yet unconquered Tevinter territory at a time we, the audience, re-join the story.

Only the Byzantine Empire itself derives its name from... Constantinople. Or rather, the city's previous name - Byzantium  Although I should note that it was actually Roman Empire... with the term "Byzantine Empire" created after it fell. Weird how it works

Also, Constantinople was the name for Ottoman Empire's capital city for almost half of a millenium, with Turkey not precisely being a 'new culture' in its place but rather a direct follow-up.

And again... if you take the example as supposed 1:1 comparison or the only example that can be given (I mentioned more cities, as did the others) then you're missing the point. "Great historical significance" aside my intention was also to show with that example that the old name is being more or less actively used despite us living in a more advanced civilization than Thedosian one and despite the change taking place almost a full century ago and not a few decades ago, as is the case with Qarinus - all that to point out that the rest of Thedas not yet catching on the change ain't really that surprising or odd in-universe, even if meta-reason for the change is amusingly mundane.

And I've made my points about what currently transpires in Tevinter itself that would realistically prompt Vints to change the city's name in my last wall-of-text post, if you're interested.

Oh I know I have had more then one fan theory blown to hell over the course of playing Andromeda and Inquisition...probably ME 3 too. But I usually like whatever it is that BioWare gives us story wise. Probably the most relevant is my feeling that Inquistion was going to be a 'cat and mouse' kind of game because of one of the lines in the trailer.

My only real concern/ question with what you are proposing is I feel like Minrathous in this scenario should be/probably will be a prologue tutorial area...at least at first...and then the Eluvians will connect to other regions like the maps in Inquisition and other story quests. Of course you will probably get more quests in Minrathous through the entire game...oh oh oh oh oh. I just had a cool thought that if this happens it would be cool if your group had a 'secret lair' or something which has an Eluvian in it and then it can connect to all the other areas of the game including Minrathous. And this would be great fodder to add maps with GaaS later. And also could point to a Tevinter native as a protag.

tis what I love about Thedas.

Whether Minrathous is the only unconquered territory remains to be seen but I have to admit that I had the idea that Qunari agents across Tevinter could have been instructed to start slave revolts to coincide with the Qunari assault, which would cause major problems for defence even if every region/city didn't immediately fall to the invading army.

I definitely live in hope that Minrathous is going to be our major city hub where our hero is based and then sets out for other areas on specific quests which may be in or outside the Imperium. That is so long as it is a properly realised capital of the Imperium, like Baldurs Gate or Athkatla in Bioware's early history, and not Kirkwall or worse still Val Royeaux in recent games. There were hints in Calpernia's story that there is something under Minrathous that could be significant and I definitely think the reason the city has never been conquered is due to some residue elven protection it was granted when built on elven ruins, so there is likely a Solas related plot reason for being there apart from anything else.

As somebody who sometimes has found some of her better storytelling ideas on the silliest occasions or during quick brainstorming sessions to cover nasty plot-holes I don't think I can agree here - for me this is an essential part of creative process... as well as a sign that one knows their universe/story well: if a problem occurs, no matter how silly or small or unexpected, one can effectively come with the idea that can mesh well with established storyline.

I can also pretty much guarantee you that a lot of details or plot-points many of us probably like or never thought of as patches covering plot-holes or other issues has probably came to life in a similar way I certainly remember David Gaider mention at least  few times that this is what most of writing is for games, especially as big and complex as DA - though this is hardly just game writing thing.

I mean... we sometimes see how other game developers or animators or other creative people use an equivalent of a chewing gum and a piece of string to bring us even some of the most memorable moments... it really is no different with storytelling sometimes. That much I know to be true, which is quite likely why my approach towards this particular issue is different.

You do know that it would mean a lot more of the above, right?