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On the other hand, it's been firmly established that darkspawn need to capture and transform women into broodmothers to reproduce. If DA4 rolls out and the darkspawn are suddenly reproducing via cloning vats like the Giaks from the Lone Wolf series and it's "always been this way," that's a step too fucking far.
How does that affect their other products? What now becomes of the Broodmother encounter in DAO? What about the Mother from Awakening? Do we take a fucking Sharpie and blot out the parts of the lorebooks that BioWare has abitrarily decided to change? What's even the use in having those books if BioWare doesn't give a shit about their own lore?
So defending a thing is being an apologist? Can I call people who are against what BioWare does a hater?
We happen to be on a BW forum and we're talking about the topic in context of a BW game, but I do recall having similar discussions on different threads and forums and similar points about stories from different games or stories from other mediums.
So am I an "apologist" of those games/stories too or do I simply have a somewhat different opinion on storytelling or how malleable they can be, depending what the story is and how it establishes its many details? I'd say the latter, but I can't help if people choose to be dismissive and narrow-minded and just assume that if someone disagrees on some matters they need to be diminished and insulted as blatant apologists.
Yep... because apparently only the 'apologists' are those who are biased here. It can't be any other way
Last Edit: Jun 29, 2019 2:56:09 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial. "an enthusiastic apologist for fascism in the 1920s"
Can I call people who are against what BioWare does a hater?
No, the proper term would be critic or skeptic. People are not 'against' what Bioware does, they are critical of it. No one is suggesting Bioware stop making games. That would be silly.
"Hater" doesn't mean anything, and is simply a childish insult. If you want to throw around childish insults, that's up to you, I suppose.
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial. "an enthusiastic apologist for fascism in the 1920s"
Er... are we talking about anything that is really that controversial here though? I mean... holy cow, the example from the dictionary cites FASCISM and we're talking about potential retcons or changes to the story that may not even stem from retcons, dude.
Given that - and given what just transpired - I think it can be easily argued that 'apologist' is thrown around as no less a childish insult than hater is. Merely an euphemism for a fanboy/fangirl.
Last Edit: Jun 26, 2019 22:48:10 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
So defending a thing is being an apologist? Can I call people who are against what BioWare does a hater?
We happen to be on a BW forum and we're talking about the topic in a context of a BW game, but I do recall having similar discussions and different threads and forums and similar points about stories from different games or stories from other mediums.
So am I an "apologist" of those games/stories too or do I simply have a somewhat different opinion on storytelling or how malleable they can be, depending what the story is and how it establishes its many details? I'd say the latter, but I can't help if people choose to be dismissive and narrow-minded and just assume that if someone disagrees on some matters they need to be diminished and insulted as blatant apologists.
Yep... because apparently only the 'apologists' are those who are biased here. It can't be any other way
Given the definition I posted, an apologist defends something ';controversial' which would not fit defending a video game or the company that makes it. Unless you are dfending GaaS or loot boxes or something, I suppose.
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial. "an enthusiastic apologist for fascism in the 1920s"
Er... are we talking about anything that is really that controversial here though? I mean... holy cow, the example from the dictionary cites FASCISM and we're talking about potential retcons or changes to the story that may not even stem from retcons, dude.
Given that - and given what just transpired - I think it can be easily argued that 'apologist' is thrown around as no less a childish insult than hater is. Merely an euphemism for a fanboy.
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial. "an enthusiastic apologist for fascism in the 1920s"
Can I call people who are against what BioWare does a hater?
No, the proper term would be critic or skeptic. People are not 'against' what Bioware does, they are critical of it. No one is suggesting Bioware stop making games. That would be silly.
"Hater" doesn't mean anything, and is simply a childish insult. If you want to throw around childish insults, that's up to you, I suppose.
Appearantely you haven’t looked very far and I know what apologist means. I’ve just witnessed that term be misused around the internet like what happening here.
No, the proper term would be critic or skeptic. People are not 'against' what Bioware does, they are critical of it. No one is suggesting Bioware stop making games. That would be silly.
"Hater" doesn't mean anything, and is simply a childish insult. If you want to throw around childish insults, that's up to you, I suppose.
Apparently you haven’t looked very far and I know what apologist means. I’ve just witnessed that term be misused around the internet like what happening here.
Lots of terms get misused. That doesn't excuse doing it yourself. Throwing around insults in response is just childish. You do this all the time. I commented in an anthem thread about sources telling me about the story being short. Whether they are correct or not is irrelevant to this point. The point is, you posted a ridiculous, insulting gif mocking my 'sources'.
Well guess what? The person you mocked actually loves anthem for what it is. They just weren't impressed with the story. So maybe think before insulting people you know nothing about.
Maybe some of you "apologists" or "fanboys" or "righteous defenders of all that is Bioware" or whatever you want to call yourselves should consider the possibility that one can be critical of some parts of a game but still enjoy the game for what it is. And that isn't a bad thing. Try it sometime.
a person who offers an argument in defense of something controversial. "an enthusiastic apologist for fascism in the 1920s"
Can I call people who are against what BioWare does a hater?
No, the proper term would be critic or skeptic. People are not 'against' what Bioware does, they are critical of it. No one is suggesting Bioware stop making games. That would be silly.
"Hater" doesn't mean anything, and is simply a childish insult. If you want to throw around childish insults, that's up to you, I suppose.
I think most of us here has some understanding of what the word appologist means but there is often a huge difference between something's denotation and something's connotation, or the context of how someone uses it matters just as much as what the word might 'mean'.
And using the term 'apologist' as a way of shutting down...what was to that point a perfect civilized debate...means the person in question was stretching the definition from mere defender to blind defender. Like the only reason why Midnight Tea is arguing the point they are arguing is because they are a 'fan/fanboy' of BioWare regardless of the reasons they might be a fan or the real world experiences they might have for arguing the point they are arguing.
Patreon (for my writing, posting chapters of my novel)
Given the definition I posted, an apologist defends something 'controversial' which would not fit defending a video game or the company that makes it. Unless you are dfending GaaS or loot boxes or something, I suppose.
Yea, but in this case (like defending GaaS or loot boxes) any reasonable discussion also seems to be in danger, because any point that is not critical of any 'controversial' topic may be immediately categorized as defense. Nevermind that even if defense on some sort of controversial topic actually happens, I don't think it warrants anyone to try and shut the discussion down by immediately deeming defensive position as ones 'in the wrong', when the controversy usually happens when there's a public disagreement/lack of consensus over whether a given thing is right or wrong in the first place.
Anyway, I think that the point is moot anyhow, given that all of it hinges on what exactly is 'controversial' - a word that I see notoriously overused these days :/
Last Edit: Jun 26, 2019 23:29:41 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Given the definition I posted, an apologist defends something 'controversial' which would not fit defending a video game or the company that makes it. Unless you are dfending GaaS or loot boxes or something, I suppose.
Yea, but in this case (like defending GaaS or loot boxes) any reasonable discussion also seems to be in danger, because any point that is not critical of any 'controversial' topic may be immediately categorized as defense. Nevermind that even if defense on some sort of controversial topic actually happens, I don't think it warrants anyone to try and shut the discussion down by immediately deeming defensive position as ones 'in the wrong', when the controversy usually happens when there's a public disagreement/lack of consensus over whether a given thing is right or wrong in the first place.
Anyway, I think that the point is moot anyhow, given that all of it hinges on what exactly is 'controversial' - a word that I see notoriously overused these days :/
Oh I agree, my original purpose in posting was to give Smiles a hard time. We have a history. lol. I shouldn't have intruded.
Yea, but in this case (like defending GaaS or loot boxes) any reasonable discussion also seems to be in danger, because any point that is not critical of any 'controversial' topic may be immediately categorized as defense. Nevermind that even if defense on some sort of controversial topic actually happens, I don't think it warrants anyone to try and shut the discussion down by immediately deeming defensive position as ones 'in the wrong', when the controversy usually happens when there's a public disagreement/lack of consensus over whether a given thing is right or wrong in the first place.
Anyway, I think that the point is moot anyhow, given that all of it hinges on what exactly is 'controversial' - a word that I see notoriously overused these days :/
Oh I agree, my original purpose in posting was to give Smiles a hard time. We have a history. lol. I shouldn't have intruded.
Helen Rose @jeraltofrivia @patrickweekes There are *great* amount of DA theories that one has to be accurate but do you ever think "huh, I'm surprised nobody's found this hint yet"?
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Not that I’m surprised by, no. There’s maybe one thing we have technically put out, but it’s suuuuuuper obscure, and I’m not surprised nothing has come of it.
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Hey, everybody, Social Experiment: ... You're the control group. Please go about your business and act as you normally would.
Helen Rose @jeraltofrivia @patrickweekes There are *great* amount of DA theories that one has to be accurate but do you ever think "huh, I'm surprised nobody's found this hint yet"?
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Not that I’m surprised by, no. There’s maybe one thing we have technically put out, but it’s suuuuuuper obscure, and I’m not surprised nothing has come of it.
Gawd... now we're going to wonder WHAT IS THIS ONE THING.
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Helen Rose @jeraltofrivia @patrickweekes There are *great* amount of DA theories that one has to be accurate but do you ever think "huh, I'm surprised nobody's found this hint yet"?
Patrick Weekes @patrickweekes Not that I’m surprised by, no. There’s maybe one thing we have technically put out, but it’s suuuuuuper obscure, and I’m not surprised nothing has come of it.
Gawd... now we're going to wonder WHAT IS THIS ONE THING.
There are probably tons of elaborate fan theories the devs never see. I think Weekes was just fucking with them tbh.
Not sure where is suitable for these: Brad Paras, a former level designer, had recently been promoted as a creative director in Edmonton.
Maciej Kurowski, a guy from Techland which developed Dying Light, became a technical director in March. He might be the franchise technical director of Dragon Age they were looking for (https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/bioware-franchise-technical-director-at-electronic-arts-ea-856370508/).
(The LinkedIn url seems to be blocked here. If you search these names on LinkedIn you can find informations.)
----------------------------------------------- Patrick Weekes mentioned Brad Paras' work.
Replying to @kristadb1 @mostlybree
This whole scene almost didn’t happen. Brad Paras, an amazing level designer, went with me through permutations of Loyal Bull/Betraying Bull-In Party/Not In Party to make it all happen.
(refering to Lord Woosley):
I would never have believed that one day a character from the twenty-somethingth quest Brad Paras and I threw into the Hinterlands would have fan art.
This makes my day.
Last Edit: Jun 28, 2019 6:32:51 GMT by apollexander
And Frosbite is better for, say a DA or a ME game? I've never heard anything bad from Unreal 4, Frosbite on the other hand... the engine is great at what it does: fps games. It was never built for anything outside that in mind.
I dont think either is "better". Both started as FPS engine, mutated to else. I can say (am I only one here who has done things with game engines?!?) for sure Unreal 4 isnt the "turn key" solution either. For real, the amount of real coding needed to get it to do something else is huge there too, not to mention the blueprints ("scripting").
I bet now UE4 has a lot of assets available for buying, like Unity has, but that doesnt make the game anyway...
[ LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI ] MEA Rules! Waiting for DA4 & ME5 - Look's like sometime in 2186, everything went to hell. We got out just ahead of it! MEA & ME1 (>>>> 3 > 2) -- DAI > DAO > DA2 -- 3500h+ & maxed out all 02/2020 in MEAMP, APEX 137001+, DAIMP (576/761/201), ANTHEM, SW BF II, FO76 - Drinking tears of MP lamers since DooM & Quake in 90's softknees.bandcamp.com/
Apparently you haven’t looked very far and I know what apologist means. I’ve just witnessed that term be misused around the internet like what happening here.
Lots of terms get misused. That doesn't excuse doing it yourself. Throwing around insults in response is just childish. You do this all the time. I commented in an anthem thread about sources telling me about the story being short. Whether they are correct or not is irrelevant to this point. The point is, you posted a ridiculous, insulting gif mocking my 'sources'.
Well guess what? The person you mocked actually loves anthem for what it is. They just weren't impressed with the story. So maybe think before insulting people you know nothing about.
Maybe some of you "apologists" or "fanboys" or "righteous defenders of all that is Bioware" or whatever you want to call yourselves should consider the possibility that one can be critical of some parts of a game but still enjoy the game for what it is. And that isn't a bad thing. Try it sometime.
What does have to do with anything? You know Space if you’re trying to start something, then maybe you need to stop turning a blind eye towards what people who don’t like BioWare does.
Lots of terms get misused. That doesn't excuse doing it yourself. Throwing around insults in response is just childish. You do this all the time. I commented in an anthem thread about sources telling me about the story being short. Whether they are correct or not is irrelevant to this point. The point is, you posted a ridiculous, insulting gif mocking my 'sources'.
Well guess what? The person you mocked actually loves anthem for what it is. They just weren't impressed with the story. So maybe think before insulting people you know nothing about.
Maybe some of you "apologists" or "fanboys" or "righteous defenders of all that is Bioware" or whatever you want to call yourselves should consider the possibility that one can be critical of some parts of a game but still enjoy the game for what it is. And that isn't a bad thing. Try it sometime.
What does have to do with anything? You know Space if you’re trying to start something, then maybe you need to stop turning a blind eye towards what people who don’t like BioWare does.
I’m not trying to start anything. What makes you think I’m turning a blind eye to anything? If you think that then feel free to enlighten me about what other people ‘does’.
But I think that’s off topic for this thread, isn’t it?
I do have to wonder whether the change means that we will hear about Quarinus/Ventus a lot in the next game - or that events there are relevant enough that thy don't want things confused between Quarinus and Qunari....
I think it is almost certain we will hear about the city since that is where the main assault on Tevinter apparently began, which makes sense considering where it is situated. We've already had it explained that the reason they changed the name is because new people on the Dev team were apparently confused by it. The daft part is that it only looks similar on paper but the pronunciation is completely different, so a simpler fix would have been to change the spelling of the name to, say, Karinus, so it still sounded the same as Qarinus (there is no "u" in it)and the spelling could then be put down to differences across Thedas.
The reason I and many others objected to the complete change to Ventus is the rather lame reason given for it, bearing in mind that Qarinus isn't just some arbitrary city name but was also the capital city and name of one of the original 3 human kingdoms that were united into the Tevinter Imperium by Darinius. It appears as such in the lore books and you would think that if Qarinus was so confusing with Qunari that someone would have picked up on it right back when they first started fleshing out the lore and given it a different name then. Then in DAI we have Dorian banging on about how much their history means to the Tevinter people and how preserving ancient buildings, etc, is integral to their culture because they are so proud of their roots as the first human civilisation. Yet, not so valued that they don't change the name of one of their most ancient cities to something that has no historical significance at all apart from some connection with a victory at sea in recent times. Nelson and Wellington won historically significant battles and have monuments, areas and streets named after their victories in London but the name of the city remained the same, as it had essentially since the Romans first named it Londinium.
I do have to wonder whether the change means that we will hear about Quarinus/Ventus a lot in the next game - or that events there are relevant enough that thy don't want things confused between Quarinus and Qunari....
I think it is almost certain we will hear about the city since that is where the main assault on Tevinter apparently began, which makes sense considering where it is situated. We've already had it explained that the reason they changed the name is because new people on the Dev team were apparently confused by it. The daft part is that it only looks similar on paper but the pronunciation is completely different, so a simpler fix would have been to change the spelling of the name to, say, Karinus, so it still sounded the same as Qarinus (there is no "u" in it)and the spelling could then be put down to differences across Thedas.
The reason I and many others objected to the complete change to Ventus is the rather lame reason given for it, bearing in mind that Qarinus isn't just some arbitrary city name but was also the capital city and name of one of the original 3 human kingdoms that were united into the Tevinter Imperium by Darinius. It appears as such in the lore books and you would think that if Qarinus was so confusing with Qunari that someone would have picked up on it right back when they first started fleshing out the lore and given it a different name then. Then in DAI we have Dorian banging on about how much their history means to the Tevinter people and how preserving ancient buildings, etc, is integral to their culture because they are so proud of their roots as the first human civilisation. Yet, not so valued that they don't change the name of one of their most ancient cities to something that has no historical significance at all apart from some connection with a victory at sea in recent times. Nelson and Wellington won historically significant battles and have monuments, areas and streets named after their victories in London but the name of the city remained the same, as it had essentially since the Romans first named it Londinium.
And Constantinople (that is also not city's first name) was a capitol of Roman Empire and then Byzantine Empire and then Ottoman Empire for another 500 years. The city was a cultural and administrative centre of great import for almost two millenia... yet it is now Istanbul (though in my country the name Konstantynopol is commonly used) - it changed its name after Turkey's capitol was moved to Ankara... a pretty mundane reason to change the name of a historic site and yet here we are. And given that Tevinter imperium was partially inspired by Roman/Byzantine Empire, rather than British one...
Cities can change names and nobody really protests it the same way they'd protest destroying buildings, because clearly these are not the same things.
Like... Vints are proud of themselves and their deeds, be it historical or modern, so why would changing a name to commemorate a significant military victory be less of a Vint thing to do?
I can also guarantee that people would grumble at the change from Quarinus to something like Karinus, for the same reason they say Ventus was change 'for newbies comfort'. From in-universe perspective it would make even less sense than giving it a new name to commemorate a victory, after all - it makes no sense from a Vint perspective, because they certainly have no problem spelling or identifying the city. And you and I both know that there's no way in hell they'd change the name of the city so non-Vints would have easier time pronouncing it.
Last Edit: Jun 27, 2019 22:52:31 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition Posts: 2,611 Likes: 6,300
Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jun 28, 2019 4:58:28 GMT
Istanbul is not a good example, Tea. It changed names because it changed hands.
My hometown got renamed after a US president b/c the original name was lackluster and that president had been a big deal in our state when he was in the military. I get the justification for changing names, in a general sense. But as Gervaise said, Qarinus isn’t some podunk town that would prefer to change its name anyway and just wanted a good excuse. Its one of the first human cities in Thedas, and important to Tevinter’s history. Its like the Romans renaming Rome or Venice or something.
And the real life reason for the name change remains silly.
And Constantinople (that is also not city's first name) was a capitol of Roman Empire and then Byzantine Empire and then Ottoman Empire for another 500 years. The city was a cultural and administrative centre of great import for almost two millenia... yet it is now Istanbul (though in my country the name Konstantynopol is commonly used) - it changed its name after Turkey's capitol was moved to Ankara... a pretty mundane reason to change the name of a historic site and yet here we are. And given that Tevinter imperium was partially inspired by Roman/Byzantine Empire, rather than British one...
This is not the same thing at all. The name Contantinople was really only significant to the civilisation whose Emperor originally named it. The Byzantine Empire were the direct descendants of the Roman Empire so the name continued to have significance to them. However, it really didn't have the same meaning for the Ottoman Empire and even less for the modern secular system of government that replaced them. I assume they wanted to remove the connection with old imperial empires, just as India and China did with some of their major cities. Constantinople was a name associated with foreign oppression. Even so, as you say, many native people still refer to it as such.
With Qarinus it is not the name of an ancient oppressor. In fact ancient Qarinus was never conquered by Tevinter but simply brought into the Imperium by marriage (although the Queen of the country took this action because she feared the alternative was conquest by Darinius). The same country and system of governance is in place as when the unification occurred. They are still the same nation. Now if they had decided to rename the city because it had been conquered by the Qun during the Steel Age and it had been named after the sea battle that won it back, that would be understandable. However, if that was the case, they should have stopped using the name Qarinus in any story involving modern Tevinter people, even if they could justify the wrong name on the map in WoT1 because they could argue it was drawn up by southerners who hadn't caught up. May be that is what they will do if they ever bring out a WoT3.
I can also guarantee that people would grumble at the change from Quarinus to something like Karinus, for the same reason they say Ventus was change 'for newbies comfort'. From in-universe perspective it would make even less sense than giving it a new name to commemorate a victory, after all - it makes no sense from a Vint perspective, because they certainly have no problem spelling or identifying the city. And you and I both know that there's no way in hell they'd change the name of the city so non-Vints would have easier time pronouncing it.
It could be how it is written in the local dialect. Constantinople = Konstantynopol. Or it could be the difference between ancient and modern Tevene. So back in Minrathous, on ancient maps there it is shown in ancient Tevene as Qarinus, but all the non-Altus locals refer to it by its modern Tevene name, Karinus. There are any number of ways they could have respected the original name and its historical connection and yet still made it simpler for newbies who were confused by it. I personally would not have had a problem with that. What I object to is that it was referred to as Qarinus in every lore book, every novel, every map and in the war table mission in DAI and this name did have a historical significance in the in-game world which gave it a very ancient lineage and nobody on these boards or the old ones (as far as I am aware) has ever suggested we find it confusing, yet they see fit to change it completely for a reason that should have been known to everyone in the in-game world and so should have been reflected in every lore book, every novel, every map and the war table mission in DAI.
