Schmooples' Den! The DA News Discussion Thread

or that's exactly who you pick, worse swordsman in France, etc.

That could be written as Solas even wiping out multiples of them in one event, things happening offscreen, things like that. Hell, the story could start with some already neutralized.
Sure it can be '16 pieces' and the story could be written to have Solas move '16 pieces' of his own - even very figuratively - but we might only need to care about a few to several.

Getting empowerment from other forces. (people, environment, artifacts)
Disempowering him.
Not going head-to-head until plot puts us finally in that moment, but it never being the goal. 'Stop Solas' being the focus, not 'murderknife him right now'.

I'm not sure Solas is that overpowered at the time of Trespasser at least. I don't take a petrification gaze that seriously beyond the impressive dramatic scene. Yes, he'd have more than that, but I think being 'one of, if not the best mage-y entity in the world' does not equate at all to invincible.

It was only ~4 years between Hawke escaping Lothering, and the battle for Kirkwall. So only about ~3 years of making a local name for themselves (post Act-1 riches) before becoming the Savior. Before that, they were very little (Act 1 odd jobs) or a nobody (villager).

The Grey Warden was accelerated, but they were also given some experience, or were otherwise a mage with all the magey powers included. They could be capable of fighting 1, 2, 3 Darkspawn at once, certainly. And the goal was to end the Blight, not wipe out ever Darkspawn - thus the intention to stop the Archdemon that facilitates the Blight. One target.

The Inquisitor was given backgrounds of even more confidence. They were not a nobody, they were just not a leader. That's why you're effectively a figurehead in Haven to justify the organization while most others would opt to disbelieve, but after Haven the situation changes, and after the base game you're finally revered for a little time, until political pressure ends up humbling you a tad.

The time in Haven was at least months, and the time between becoming Inquisitor to defeating Cory was at least several months (with development not wanting to reflect the whole seasonal shift of a year). The Inquisitor isn't doing most of this stuff, that's why the emphasis is put on characters like Josephine, Leliana, Cullen, Cassandra. You're a rando tool that had the gusto to be more than that, again, because of the backfired Haven attack by Corypheus (he only amplified your reputation). You're not actually the Chosen One, you're someone who has taken a pseudo-mythological mantle and had the decency, initiative, or at least low-key selfishness and egotism (depending on RP, but most is usually on the lighter side in DAI) to do something with it. This is the only time you're put into a significant leadership role - the party in DAO is only ad hoc 'Wardens' but not really, its still mostly the tight adventuring party of a BG game.


We're in fantasy game stories, I'm sorry guys, but we're going to get some contrivance, some conveniences, some obvious plot devices, some 'Deus Ex Machina'. If you're looking for a gradually plotted extremely low fantasy story where we stay humble for the whole trip, Bioware's never had that (even BG1), and most fantasy RPGs haven't either. Yes, even the lauded ones of the last decade, or the classics from the 90s. I find it rather useless to ever consider a Bioware story won't have a swift elevation of the protagonist to a renowned role (whether within a small group or all of society) at some point, whether the start or by the middle. These games are not just for fantasy enthusiasts of decades long, but they're also easy power trips for 14 year olds, and anywhere in between. A successful RPG doesn't necessarily need to do this stuff, but its a much easier hook than other options.

I get it though - you can enjoy Bioware games despite tropes you've come to expect from them. God knows I have my list by now (it is possible we meet a group of major politicians that don't treat us with immediate disregard or disrespect? ever? for example).

I would be very surprised if it's 'rookie' and not 'rook' in reference to the chess piece. The (known) chess symbolism goes back as far as 2015, and there's tons of symbolism baked into that with the major arcana. Not to mention that there's a possible double entendre of a small, unassuming rook actually being a rukh (roc). And I like The Rook the same way we saw The Jackdaw. Or even The Kestrel, like Lloyd Alexander's Westmark series. It's a type of naming scheme that has a pretty deep history in fantasy settings; off the cuff I can even think of another book that, while not a bird, uses The Fox (thank you, Sherwood Smith.) And of course, The Iron Bull  

It'll be fine. No use getting worked up about something we don't even know the context of yet. But... The word itself doesn't bother me. And personally I feel like being called that can't possibly be any worse than the extreme second-hand embarrassment I got at everyone at Haven singing The Dawn Will Come at me/the character.

Hey, I liked everyone bursting into song, their religion is based around singing, it makes sense even if a bit cheesy.  Though I will admit I would have preferred them singing from the Chant instead of a random inspirational song. It seems that whenever we hear the Chant it's spoken instead of, well, chanted.

Yes, that is what I'm hoping, it was just a placeholder name during development and perhaps and in house joke, given the cover of the pink book and chess featuring a fair bit in DAI: not only was there the mental match between Solas and Bull but Cullen and Dorian were playing chess and from what I recall when Dorian left, the Inquisitor could take his place in the game.

If it does turn out to be a nickname given by Varric, will I be allowed to punch him for it?!

With a big dumb boss battle at the end.

This is actually one of the things I am most hyped for them to do and the potential they could pull it off. And granted I know the last time they had a set up like this, the Reapers, their execution was somewhere south of ideal...but maybe they can learn from their mistakes.



Other then that though the goal may not be to go 'head to head' with him at all, at least not in the martial sense, but in the philosophical sense. Like we know Solas is uber powerful, and while not omnicient he does have his intelligence networks as well so its likely that, even with our best efforts, the 'Rook' and their team will be discovered by him eventually. We'd almost have to be. So we're discovered by him but then for his own reasons, which is in his character for reasons which not sure I want to go into because this post will be long enough as is, and then he chooses not to kill us because he is genuinely curious to see what we'll do and if we can provide him with an alternative.



Like I know this comparison will cause people who know the reference to cringe but I keep on going back to the Shadows and the Vorlons from Babylon 5. Two races that were millions of years older then humanity or any of the other races that were opposing them. They were supposed to be guardians of the galaxy, they didn't like each other, and they dragged all of us into their dispute. So much so that even when these allied races found races even older then them it was clear that such a tactic would've just delayed the inevitable. There was no way that the Vorlons and Shadows could've been defeated by force of arms. So the main protagonists of the series eventually got together, had a debate with them, and obstinantly proved how silly they were and got them to stop. I am being very blase about this but given everything we have seen it is certainly possible that, much like with the Reapers should've been, we just are able to talk to Solas and get him to change his mind. Afterall if Solas is so powerful to kill us borderline Thanos style he can afford to hear us out and the dialogue itself in Tresspasser suggests the possibility.



And even if we have to take him on martially DA also provides a clue about how such a war could go. Solas himself was a rebel leader going up against a powerful cadre of 'gods'. Like its hard to know for sure but I think its been pretty heavily implied that the power between Solas and the collective might of the Evanuriis is about the same as between us and Solas. At the very least he was a legit underdog. And yet Solas chose to take them on and then through subterfuge, deciet, and cunning was able to engage them at least somewhat successfully. Same thing could happen here where our team of nobodies is able to take the fight to him and his organization through good tactics and smarts rather then brute force. Like Spec Ops, Super secret squirel crap. And real life as well as fiction and myth is replete with examples of the underdog engaging an on paper much mightier force...and winning.


This does put me in mind of some thoughts I had in relation for Inquisition at the time. Given what was happening in the media at the time and where my headspace was it was fun to imagine the Inquisition and companions and advisors especially as being the Avengers of Thedas...and even seen artwork to that effect. But then I did muse and extend the concept is it would've been really neat if Corypheus ended up having his own team of Avengers...nine bosses essentially who all made some sort of dark counterpart. This obviously didn't happen but it was fun to speculate since the only two that really qualified was two, Caelpernia and Samson, and even if you extend his other LTs that only brought us up to five.



But it might be a nice idea if Solas and his organization or the people he is manipulating and threats all end up as toatalling the number of companions we have in the game...and that each companion, more or less with maybe one or two exceptions, has a deep connection either in direct character comparison or thematic significance, to one of the baddies.



This would make a great loop for characters, story, and gameplay especially with the probable faction reinforcement of these themes. Like an Ubisoft style crawl where we have to get through all of Solas's lieutenants, wage a shadow war, collect lore and intelligence as we get to the man himself.



...Sure pie in the sky but a man can dream?



Yep my Inquisitor pretty much had the same character loop which was dictated by the themes but as well as the roleplay. Afterall Solas does seem pretty intense and focuses on names and titles as he poitned out to the Inquisitor and then even asks our protagonist in one of the trailers 'what will they call you.'



And that would make a pretty good bit of progression for the game as well and a nice little potential character arc for Rook. Going through the game, having some information on Solas and the threat he poses, but then going on and being able to eventually start becoming his own spy master.

I mean they aren't really BioWare's tropes to begin with. Granted this might be semantics but think they are somewhat important...as about 90% of the fantasy tropes that we use today in the genre, their use and then their subversion, can all be traced back to Tolkien and probably CS Lewis for better or worse. And then since both of them were influenced by their Christianity the Christian/ Western ethos of the little humble guy coming along to change the world.



Both Frodo and Bilbo and the entire point of the Hobbits, the protagonists for Lord of the Rings/ the Hobbit, was an entire race of humble, small, farmers that Sauron would never see coming. They weren't perfectly immune from the Ring's corruption (hello those Christian themes again) but they could resist it enough and be humble enough just long enough to actually toss the thing into Mount Doom. Its a poweful message since the Hobbits throughout the entire series weren't overly smart, not martial at all, didn't have powerful magics at their disposal...aside from the Ring itself which was a faustian bargain. They had to rely on others to do their fighting and protecting for them who were also more suspectiable to the rings corruption. So essential rookies small power people were the biggest lynchpins of defeating Sauron and destroying the ring and thematically the only ones who could do it. Its a powerful message.



And the thing about tropes is they are general enough to where they can be used in a great many ways and find a lot of expression. In RPGs there is some more wiggle room for that but the Warden...effectivly a rookie. Hawke effectively a rookie. The Inquisitor. Effectively a rookie. Ryder to. Shepard is the only real exception and even that was a cheat...because part of the things with games and RPGs especially is power and skill progression so just playing as a powerless character just fits the genre more and looping it back up to the top these tropes are why Fantasy RPGs probably exist in the first place. We don't have to be a complete dumbass either. Like its easy to roleplay the Inquisitor and the Warden as having some martial training and Hawke does cannonically...but in the grand scheme of things under dog stories just tend to work.




Like part of this though is that something does not have to be used entirely in universe to work. Even in the off chance a rook is not known as a rook in setting it is in real life...and real life significance we the audience can get the answer. They even kind of do look like a tower so...

From the in universe perspective because I do believe you were right about the chess match...but pretty sure Rooks are also known as towers IRL as well. Plus just because they were reffering to them as towers in their little chess game, afterall they were making up their own names, does not mean that the term Rook isn't used to refer to those chess pieces. Again they were making up their own names for the pieces in addition to using Tower and nothing is written that someone has to call a tower a rook in every single chess game they have. So its very easy, I wouldn't even say this is a retcon, but just refer to the piece as a rook because in universe...if the game Chess exists in universe and if all the other pieces have the same names between universes...it implies that Towers are also known as Rooks in universe but they were just using the term tower for local flavor. 

70 feet (whose feet?) tall and firing fireballs?

When in the Dreadwolf form you mean. I think he is likely more powerful when the Dreadwolf but he is only that in the Fade. It is essentially his alter ego and has very much taken on the persona the Evanuris gave him. This is why with the non romanced tarot card the wolf seems to loom over him, which was also the case with his self portrait in the Darvaraad. His relationship with Lavellan was causing the Wolf to be suppressed and almost for him to "forget" the Dread aspect which was necessary for him to maintain to carry through with his purpose. So, he broke up with Lavellan. PW explained this way back when the game first came out (not the Wolf persona part but why he broke up with her).   Solas facing off with the Dread Wolf in the 2018 trailer would suggest that we may even need his help in overcoming it.   Certainly, I don't think killing Solas would necessarily do the trick because probably it would just totally confirm the Dread Wolf aspect and we would have to defeat the Dreadwolf subsequently.   (A bit like Jon Irenicus in BG2, where you have to kill him twice).