jennica
N3
Party like a krogan
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Post by jennica on Sept 17, 2024 20:24:56 GMT
You perfectly described my feelings. My favorite way to play as warriors in DAO is to set up tactics for them and then switch to mages. I find rogues a bit more interesting because at least you need to position them for backstabs which makes gameplay more engaging, but they still have the same problems as warriors.
And this is why in games with turn based/RTWP combat i tend to play as hybrid classes. I still prefer martial classes, but they tend to be more boring than spell casters due to less abilities.
Yeah, martial classes are often a conundrum in ttrpg inspired gameplay because they get outpaced so often and so easily by magic classes. Larian did quite a bit of fiddling with martials in BG3 to try and mitigate this issue, for example. (Although I love battlemaster warrior lol, I can break action economy so easily with it.) I have no idea what exactely Larian changed but thank the Maker they did that, because BG3 is MUCH better than DAO, 2 and DAI as far as martial classes are concerned.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 17, 2024 20:32:53 GMT
While Larian did help certain martial classes (ranger above all), they avoided the issue of imbalance between by full magic classes and non magical/half magical classes by the level cap being 12, and not full 20, so that level 7,8,9 spells aren’t in the game.
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Post by Reznore on Sept 17, 2024 20:47:02 GMT
So no news today? I feel letdown. (i know, I know the floodgate is about to open but still...)
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Sept 17, 2024 21:01:46 GMT
It makes me sad that I'm going to have to go dark here soon, I'll miss the people here and reading the shenanigans.
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azarhal
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Post by azarhal on Sept 17, 2024 21:17:18 GMT
It makes me sad that I'm going to have to go dark here soon, I'll miss the people here and reading the shenanigans. You'll be back!
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MeadKnight
N2
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by MeadKnight on Sept 17, 2024 21:30:28 GMT
So no news today? I feel letdown. (i know, I know the floodgate is about to open but still...) We must stay strong until Thursday. 😤
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Post by Andrew Waples on Sept 17, 2024 21:53:40 GMT
So no news today? I feel letdown. (i know, I know the floodgate is about to open but still...) Like Crestwood.
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Frost
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Post by Frost on Sept 17, 2024 22:01:41 GMT
Yeah, martial classes are often a conundrum in ttrpg inspired gameplay because they get outpaced so often and so easily by magic classes. Larian did quite a bit of fiddling with martials in BG3 to try and mitigate this issue, for example. (Although I love battlemaster warrior lol, I can break action economy so easily with it.) ANother point to having ability limits: Balance. Disagree. It is poor design to balance martials by limiting mages to 3 abilities.
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Ice-Quinn
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"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Sept 17, 2024 22:09:29 GMT
Hybrid classes and specializations apart - physical oriented classes and characters are best represented through great animation for their melee moves, heavy armor and big weapons - not with magic-adjacent flashy skills. Rogues have their cunning, precision and preternatural agility. Mages are often physically weak, but have their spells. And that’s how it goes. Not saying we should be limited by these concepts, but when you’re making everyone the same, it ends up taking away, diluting, rather than adding or leveling the playing field.
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Post by biggydx on Sept 17, 2024 22:53:38 GMT
Hybrid classes and specializations apart - physical oriented classes and characters are best represented through great animation for their melee moves, heavy armor and big weapons - not with magic-adjacent flashy skills. Rogues have their cunning, precision and preternatural agility. Mages are often physically weak, but have their spells. And that’s how it goes. Not saying we should be limited by these concepts, but when you’re making everyone the same, it ends up taking away, diluting, rather than adding or leveling the playing field. I actually do sympathetize with the statement that animation quality can definitely improve a more strength-focused character. I think where this could still be lacking against other melee focused counterparts is the direct control. When pulled off well, melee combat in ARPGs (like Dragons Dogma 2 or the upcoming Crimson Desert) can feel weighty and crunchy. With a Turn-based or RtwP gameplay, I do think you lose some of that. Then again, I think that's why games like FF7 Rebirth rely on visual FX as well (along with animation quality).
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ewigDunkelheit
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Exalt the Dwarf Age!
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Post by ewigDunkelheit on Sept 17, 2024 22:56:11 GMT
So it's been a long time since I played Origins. What was it specifically about the class that people found less enjoyable? While rogue is my favorite class, I also really liked Warrior in Origins. As some others have stated, the Warrior class likely is less popular due to being "plain" and less flashy, possibly with some players not caring for the slower combat speed (in general). I tried out all four weapon styles individually, and had fun with each. Feel free to distrust my subjective opinion though, as my canon Warden wound up as an active-abilities-based longbow Champion, which some suggest to be a terrible idea. I actually found Warrior to be the worst in Exodus. I can't quite put my finger on it at the moment, but the class' gameplay loop felt boring to me. I feel like the abilities accomplished less, and the hits and abilities felt like they lacked impact most of the time. Of the classes in Inquisition, I felt warrior was the best implemented. While unfortunately reduced in number, I felt like most abilities were more meaningful again. The weightiness and impact in the role also returned.
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illuminated11
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 17, 2024 23:15:43 GMT
So it's been a long time since I played Origins. What was it specifically about the class that people found less enjoyable? While rogue is my favorite class, I also really liked Warrior in Origins. As some others have stated, the Warrior class likely is less popular due to being "plain" and less flashy, possibly with some players not caring for the slower combat speed (in general). I tried out all four weapon styles individually, and had fun with each. Feel free to distrust my subjective opinion though, as my canon Warden wound up as an active-abilities-based longbow Champion, which some suggest to be a terrible idea. I actually found Warrior to be the worst in Exodus. I can't quite put my finger on it at the moment, but the class' gameplay loop felt boring to me. I feel like the abilities accomplished less, and the hits and abilities felt like they lacked impact most of the time. Of the classes in Inquisition, I felt warrior was the best implemented. While unfortunately reduced in number, I felt like most abilities were more meaningful again. The weightiness and impact in the role also returned. I wil say, on my most recent playthrough, rogue class pleasantly surprised me by being much more engaging than I remembered. I still don’t know if I can say I liked it, but it made for a nice change of pace. While ranger isn’t optimal, and losing animal companion every time you change maps is infuriating, it feels sufficiently different. And going stealth to set up traps is a radically different play style from almost anything else in the game. I’ll also add, that for new players, there’s barrier of entry in terms of stats allocation. It’s not pathfinder level where you can completely nuke your build in one or two levels if you don’t know what you’re doing, but it’s very easy to struggle if you don’t understand the systems. Constitution for example is a stat people will likely use for warriors, but really it’s a stat you should only be using if you’re going blood mage, while warriors want to focus primarily on strength and dexterity.
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2024 23:17:19 GMT
ANother point to having ability limits: Balance. Disagree. It is poor design to balance martials by limiting mages to 3 abilities. But everyone is limited to 3 abilities. (and an ultimate. And 3 runes)
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Post by colfoley on Sept 17, 2024 23:22:33 GMT
Disagree. It is poor design to balance martials by limiting mages to 3 abilities. But everyone is limited to 3 abilities. (and an ultimate. And 3 runes) and combos and some abilities being permanent. And armot. Frost has been told this repeatedly and yet continues to ignore the facts.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 17, 2024 23:26:29 GMT
But everyone is limited to 3 abilities. (and an ultimate. And 3 runes) and combos and some abilities being permanent. And armot. Frost has been told this repeatedly and yet continues to ignore the facts. Dodge too. Can't wait to blink all around the battlefield
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githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Sept 17, 2024 23:47:08 GMT
Hybrid classes and specializations apart - physical oriented classes and characters are best represented through great animation for their melee moves, heavy armor and big weapons - not with magic-adjacent flashy skills. Rogues have their cunning, precision and preternatural agility. Mages are often physically weak, but have their spells. And that’s how it goes. Not saying we should be limited by these concepts, but when you’re making everyone the same, it ends up taking away, diluting, rather than adding or leveling the playing field. hmmm ... "And the trees are all kept equal By hatchet, axe, and saw"
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githcheater
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Post by githcheater on Sept 17, 2024 23:53:23 GMT
and combos and some abilities being permanent. And armot. Frost has been told this repeatedly and yet continues to ignore the facts. Dodge too. Can't wait to blink all around the battlefield Who needs alcohol?
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Post by themikefest on Sept 17, 2024 23:53:31 GMT
I knew DAI sold like 6m copies in its first year, but at 12m copies now. Nice! That is a good figure but without wanting to be a party pooper, how many sold at the original retail price and how many later on once it came down in price? It is the amount the game actually makes that is surely the figure that EA are interested in. DAV needs to sell well at the initial price to make back the amount of money invested in its development over the last 10 years. Curious how many people bought more than one copy? I bought a copy for ps3/ps4/computer
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 17, 2024 23:57:41 GMT
It makes me sad that I'm going to have to go dark here soon, I'll miss the people here and reading the shenanigans.
C'mon, live a little. Be adventurous. Embrace the Light! You can always keep one eye closed.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 18, 2024 0:00:23 GMT
That is a good figure but without wanting to be a party pooper, how many sold at the original retail price and how many later on once it came down in price? It is the amount the game actually makes that is surely the figure that EA are interested in. DAV needs to sell well at the initial price to make back the amount of money invested in its development over the last 10 years. Curious how many people bought more than one copy? I bought a copy for ps3/ps4/computer I bought 2.
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Ice-Quinn
N3
"Begone, spirit! I will not play your games."
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Ice-Quinn on Sept 18, 2024 1:43:01 GMT
I bought 2, as well. PC and Series X.
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Post by smilesja on Sept 18, 2024 1:50:21 GMT
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrahYeah I'm not sure where "DAI was a commercial failure" came from... Its over 12 million at this point. MASIVELY oversold the internal EA projections ... Oh yeah and was GotY in 2014. Amazing how people actually downplay the impact DA:I had for Bioware.
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varmaelen
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Post by varmaelen on Sept 18, 2024 4:39:57 GMT
what's happening on thursday, I'm out of the loop. the impact DA:I had for Bioware It's because of the popular youtube "critique" videos I bet. I am not saying that their critique are completely illegitimate, many of them are good critique. But it fuel a lot of hatred these days, especially after Anthem/Andromeda. If Veilguard didn't sell at least 69 gazillion copies, it will be considered a complete failure.
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MeadKnight
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Post by MeadKnight on Sept 18, 2024 4:55:54 GMT
what's happening on thursday, I'm out of the loop. It's when the embargo lifts for those who got to play ~7 hours of the game a couple weeks ago.
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varmaelen
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Post by varmaelen on Sept 18, 2024 5:04:13 GMT
It's when the embargo lifts for those who got to play ~7 hours of the game a couple weeks ago. Thank you for this information. I will edging to this news to sustain myself until tomorrow (it's wed afternoon where I live)
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