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Post by The Elder King on Sept 19, 2024 8:58:38 GMT
All this to say that Veilguard has shown off a lot of content since June. Many content doesn't mean it is good one. Yes, we can quibble about the quality of the individual decisions and what we are seeing and about the color pallet DA:TV would have been better in many peoples eyes, if the first bunch of videos wheren't shown at all or shown on a later date. Yep. The gameplay reveal would've worked better if it was shown later on to showcase the prologue of the game, because showing off level 1 gameplay for DA, with a revamped combat shifted towards action, didn't help. While there are many that still don't like the shift, the other combat videos highlight the gameplay better, and there are people that had a better opinion of it thanks to those videos. The reveal trailer, at least for my perspective, was the biggest issue and the one that still linger around, with a good portion of criticism centered around it. The music and tone of the trailer doesn't fit with Veilguard regardless of the changes, and it makes even less sense considering it's not an actual rapresentation of the events of the game. I've seen plenty of comments online mocking and criticizing the fact that Rook gets recruited just like that, in the tavern, while we do know that they're already part of the team.
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 19, 2024 9:04:16 GMT
I actually want to see this content now, spoilers or not. I was watching Dantics latest video this morning when he was saying he thinks the real problem all along has been Bioware's poor marketing strategy with respect to Veilguard. In particular, he highlighted that the latest IGN exclusive did the game no favours and yet because of the embargo on everyone else who had similar access they weren't able to come out and support the game properly by showing how much better it could be in terms of Rook's appearance, game play, character development, etc. He also agreed how much better the screens would have looked if they hadn't saturated them with purple, even though he uses purple, because that gave the wrong tone and vibe for the game. Also, something he demonstrated that I had picked up on, when I can hear it I find the music underwhelming. He put the old iconic DAI score over his idea for a trailer and wow did it alter my perspective on what I was seeing because, of course, it tapped into my memory of my enjoyment there. So, whilst detractors will argue that those with privileged access are hardly likely to say anything bad about the game, I do think it will help with enthusiasm because they will actually showcase what is good about the game. I'd say that the IGN coverage is been overall received in a positive way, outside of the mage gameplay video...unless you're talking specifically about the article on the CC? I'd agree on that, although I wonder if it's an issue from Bioware or IGN. The latter definitely recorded videos and footage of the CC, and I doubt Bioware told them they had to release an article on it before the 19th; they'll likely just told them they couldn't show before the 19th, so a more reasonable thing to do would be release the CC article on the 19th along the rest. Music is subjective, as Inquisition's isn't even my favorite in the franchise, and I like what we've heard from Veilguard so far, but you could very well be right and in the end the latter will result worse then the former. Hopefully that's not the case. I completely agree on the purple, as I think a more subtle and darker variant of it would've worked better while maintaining the purple theme they wanted to go for.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 19, 2024 9:04:28 GMT
You can't discuss the elder one or Redcliffe Castle or the Templars or later missions... Bearing in mind Bioware actually showcased that entire section of the mage path in their pre-launch marketing, which was a huge spoiler (even though there were some aspects like Leliana's appearance that they altered and they didn't let on about the time travel), they may have left it up to the creators just what they do reveal, with specific exclusions that may not rule out entire missions. I expect anything further connected with Solas has been ruled out, except perhaps how we acquire that iconic dagger. Also, I've been able to figure out a fair bit from what has been revealed up to now, particularly from the IGN trailer, so in terms of plot I know a fair bit and I actually am more interested in the nitty gritty of CC and character development.
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 19, 2024 9:08:47 GMT
In regards of the end of the embargo, I think Bioware needs the vast majority of the articles/videos to be positive, as it could help with preorders and day one sales a lot.
In any case, the sheer number of content coming out from a variety of people in different fields, from gaming magazines to content creators, and what they should cover (I think, the articles/vidoes, while not covering the 3 hours of content still under NDA would use them to corroborate their opinion of the game), will give us a clearer view of the game.
I still think that a CC demo would also help in marketing the game, but given the embargo on the CC (clearly showcased by IGN's article not having footage of it), it would've have been announced before today.
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 19, 2024 9:12:28 GMT
You can't discuss the elder one or Redcliffe Castle or the Templars or later missions... Bearing in mind Bioware actually showcased that entire section of the mage path in their pre-launch marketing, which was a huge spoiler (even though there were some aspects like Leliana's appearance that they altered and they didn't let on about the time travel), they may have left it up to the creators just what they do reveal, with specific exclusions that may not rule out entire missions. I expect anything further connected with Solas has been ruled out, except perhaps how we acquire that iconic dagger. Also, I've been able to figure out a fair bit from what has been revealed up to now, particularly from the IGN trailer, so in terms of plot I know a fair bit and I actually am more interested in the nitty gritty of CC and character development. I do agree that it was spoiler, but what was edited out and what we didn't know about time travel lead to a very different interpretation of what they shown. It was an interesting way to showcase something quite heavy with spoiler but also fooling the audience in some way. Based on what Ghil Dhirtanen say on twitter, they are all going to be under NDA for a good chunk of content they were able to play at the event, around 3 hours worth of content, with what they played mostly the same of IGN and related to 'Act 1', although based on some tweets I think they'll show something more then what we saw from IGN.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 19, 2024 9:22:21 GMT
Many content doesn't mean it is good one. DA:TV would have been better in many peoples eyes, if the first bunch of videos wheren't shown at all or shown on a later date. Yep. The gameplay reveal would've worked better if it was shown later on to showcase the prologue of the game, because showing off level 1 gameplay for DA, with a revamped combat shifted towards action, didn't help. While there are many that still don't like the shift, the other combat videos highlight the gameplay better, and there are people that had a better opinion of it thanks to those videos. The reveal trailer, at least for my perspective, was the biggest issue and the one that still linger around, with a good portion of criticism centered around it. The music and tone of the trailer doesn't fit with Veilguard regardless of the changes, and it makes even less sense considering it's not an actual rapresentation of the events of the game. I've seen plenty of comments online mocking and criticizing the fact that Rook gets recruited just like that, in the tavern, while we do know that they're already part of the team.
"They'll never see it coming" fits, though.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Sept 19, 2024 9:24:25 GMT
Do you think we will get to see what choices are being imported before release?
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 19, 2024 9:24:44 GMT
Yep. The gameplay reveal would've worked better if it was shown later on to showcase the prologue of the game, because showing off level 1 gameplay for DA, with a revamped combat shifted towards action, didn't help. While there are many that still don't like the shift, the other combat videos highlight the gameplay better, and there are people that had a better opinion of it thanks to those videos. The reveal trailer, at least for my perspective, was the biggest issue and the one that still linger around, with a good portion of criticism centered around it. The music and tone of the trailer doesn't fit with Veilguard regardless of the changes, and it makes even less sense considering it's not an actual rapresentation of the events of the game. I've seen plenty of comments online mocking and criticizing the fact that Rook gets recruited just like that, in the tavern, while we do know that they're already part of the team.
"They'll never see it coming" fits, though.
I'm not even sure about that, or that it's going to be an actual line in the game. Unless you're referring to people watching the trailer not expecting that kind of trailer.
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The Elder King
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 19, 2024 9:26:58 GMT
Do you think we will get to see what choices are being imported before release? I'm personally doubtful. They might show a few, but seeing all of them ones present in the CC would be a pretty big spoiler of what to expect or not to expect coming from previous games. Although I guess one could say that we're going to get spoiled anyway, given that we'll know right at the CC what choices from previous games will be referred in Veilguard.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 19, 2024 9:30:28 GMT
In regards of the end of the embargo, I think Bioware needs the vast majority of the articles/videos to be positive, as it could help with preorders and day one sales a lot. In any case, the sheer number of content coming out from a variety of people in different fields, from gaming magazines to content creators, and what they should cover (I think, the articles/vidoes, while not covering the 3 hours of content still under NDA would use them to corroborate their opinion of the game), will give us a clearer view of the game. I still think that a CC demo would also help in marketing the game, but given the embargo on the CC (clearly showcased by IGN's article not having footage of it), it would've have been announced before today.
CC embargo raises questions in my mind. It may do what Bio said but awkwardly? And, we don't want to show that do we?.... says Bio.
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Post by The Elder King on Sept 19, 2024 9:47:10 GMT
In regards of the end of the embargo, I think Bioware needs the vast majority of the articles/videos to be positive, as it could help with preorders and day one sales a lot. In any case, the sheer number of content coming out from a variety of people in different fields, from gaming magazines to content creators, and what they should cover (I think, the articles/vidoes, while not covering the 3 hours of content still under NDA would use them to corroborate their opinion of the game), will give us a clearer view of the game. I still think that a CC demo would also help in marketing the game, but given the embargo on the CC (clearly showcased by IGN's article not having footage of it), it would've have been announced before today.
CC embargo raises questions in my mind. It may do what Bio said but awkwardly? And, we don't want to show that do we?.... says Bio.
The embargo ends today. There'll be footage of it, from what I gathered, including by some dwarven content. If they didn't want to show it because it might not work well, they wouldn't have showcased it at the event and allowed people to record footage and show it today. If it doesn't work, we'll see it.
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Post by SomberXIII on Sept 19, 2024 10:01:05 GMT
Gotta have a little fun before the embargo
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Post by jennica on Sept 19, 2024 10:05:01 GMT
Gotta have a little fun before the embargo Why Bellara looks so mad?
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Post by illuminated11 on Sept 19, 2024 10:30:05 GMT
Gotta have a little fun before the embargo Why Bellara looks so mad? She’s a serious elf here on serious business; there will be no funny business, we swear guys. /s Anyway, while I am irked by all the talk about CC without actually showing the damn thing, the overall marketing hasn’t seemed egregious to me. I actually thought the level one gameplay reveal was quite good and the more I watch it the more it’s probably my favorite thing they released. (Granted it has Solas, which helps.) The initial trailer is meh but I could easily see it like that awful Marilyn Manson trailer, where it’s looked back on semi-fondly because you have benefit of hindsight. Marketing is usually very hit or miss with BioWare, so mostly it’s going to come down to reviews from people with similar tastes to you, to help you decide on the purchase.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2024 10:31:52 GMT
All this to say that Veilguard has shown off a lot of content since June. Many content doesn't mean it is good one. Yes, we can quibble about the quality of the individual decisions and what we are seeing and about the color pallet DA:TV would have been better in many peoples eyes, if the first bunch of videos weren't shown at all or shown on a later date. Edit: And some if it would have been cut different or played by a different person.
Obviously. But that is the core part of the argument that Gervaise relayed. That they have 'killed the hype' by not showing the game enough or not showing it in the right order or something. Like how much more do we need to see at this point? And complaining about things like them not showing off things properly IE in regards to the 'smooth headed' Qunari. Like they aren't Klingons. Their main distinction is their horns, not 'forehead ridges.' Which Sten had a smooth forehead back in the day. The Arishock was older and had 'age lines' and Bull was scarred to crap. Not natural formations but evidence of a life lived. But regardless is this everyone's first RPG that they have seen? I know some of the criticism might come from that crowd who has never played an RPG or a DA game but a lot of people claiming to be veterans don't seem to know how this stuff works.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2024 10:33:08 GMT
Why Bellara looks so mad? She’s a serious elf here on serious business; there will be no funny business, we swear guys. /s Anyway, while I am irked by all the talk about CC without actually showing the damn thing, the overall marketing hasn’t seemed egregious to me. I actually thought the level one gameplay reveal was quite good and the more I watch it the more it’s probably my favorite thing they released. (Granted it has Solas, which helps.) The initial trailer is meh but I could easily see it like that awful Marilyn Manson trailer, where it’s looked back on semi-fondly because you have benefit of hindsight. Marketing is usually very hit or miss with BioWare, so mostly it’s going to come down to reviews from people with similar tastes to you, to help you decide on the purchase. Still wish someone would rip the version of the first trailer music so I could just listen to it.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 19, 2024 10:56:17 GMT
Many content doesn't mean it is good one. DA:TV would have been better in many peoples eyes, if the first bunch of videos weren't shown at all or shown on a later date. Edit: And some if it would have been cut different or played by a different person.
Obviously. But that is the core part of the argument that Gervaise relayed. That they have 'killed the hype' by not showing the game enough or not showing it in the right order or something. Like how much more do we need to see at this point? And complaining about things like them not showing off things properly IE in regards to the 'smooth headed' Qunari. Like they aren't Klingons. Their main distinction is their horns, not 'forehead ridges.' Which Sten had a smooth forehead back in the day. The Arishock was older and had 'age lines' and Bull was scarred to crap. Not natural formations but evidence of a life lived. But regardless is this everyone's first RPG that they have seen? I know some of the criticism might come from that crowd who has never played an RPG or a DA game but a lot of people claiming to be veterans don't seem to know how this stuff works. I saw the video that gervaise21 speak about. And i agree with the video. If they would have start with the release date trailer, then a gameplay trailer with someone that can play the game (warrior/rogue/ mage) and then show the companion trailer in the companion week. People wouldn't have so much energy to talk negative about it. All negative videos i have seen are videos from people that want to jump on the negative train. If we would have been more positive after the first trailer + gameplay, they wouldn't have a reason to do so.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2024 11:11:43 GMT
Obviously. But that is the core part of the argument that Gervaise relayed. That they have 'killed the hype' by not showing the game enough or not showing it in the right order or something. Like how much more do we need to see at this point? And complaining about things like them not showing off things properly IE in regards to the 'smooth headed' Qunari. Like they aren't Klingons. Their main distinction is their horns, not 'forehead ridges.' Which Sten had a smooth forehead back in the day. The Arishock was older and had 'age lines' and Bull was scarred to crap. Not natural formations but evidence of a life lived. But regardless is this everyone's first RPG that they have seen? I know some of the criticism might come from that crowd who has never played an RPG or a DA game but a lot of people claiming to be veterans don't seem to know how this stuff works. I saw the video that gervaise21 speak about. And i agree with the video. If they would have start with the release date trailer, then a gameplay trailer with someone that can play the game (warrior/rogue/ mage) and then show the companion trailer in the companion week. People wouldn't have so much energy to talk negative about it. All negative videos i have seen are videos from people that want to jump on the negative train. If we would have been more positive after the first trailer + gameplay, they wouldn't have a reason to do so.
It wouldn't have mattered. I have seen a lot of negative commentary about both the reveal trailer and a lot of stuff since then in regards to the IGN review video and a lot of it is...very base and low brow. The 'smooth headed Qunari' controversy? After the launch date reveal trailer. So it really wouldn't have mattered. People would have negative opinions and those who are deliberatley looking to find things to be negative about would find it no matter what because the rearanging of the trailers would not have changed the content of the game or the differences in gameplay. And the initial reveal trailer was very on brand for DA. We have seen stylized splash screens introducing characters in the actual course of DA video games before. Nothing of this should have been surprising, and we all saw the same game clips between those stylized clips, people calling it cartoony would've still been there.
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Post by varmaelen on Sept 19, 2024 11:25:51 GMT
It wouldn't have mattered I think it would have mattered quite a bit, especially in luring newer fans or players. People outside the fandom or anti-fans usually need to be hooked by the initial reaction to the game. For many people, that would have been the reveal trailer. It's clear that the trailer was mixed at best. Subsequent trailers and marketing materials might not have reached a lot of people because many of them lost interest due to their initial reaction to the game. I don't know who planned that initial reveal, but that trailer has done a lot of damage to the game. I was cautiously optimistic before the reveal, but now I'm even more cautious. I don't know how high EA expects this game to perform, but I hope this should be their cue to start listening more closely to the fan. I'm sure you guys must have been annoyed each time someone pointed to Larian Studios, but the fact of the matter is, it's the best standard we have. They involved players in EA for over two years, listened to them to this day. Why can't BioWare just follow their example? I mean we're begging for content for 10 years and they're edging us to the very end lol.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 19, 2024 11:29:23 GMT
I saw the video that gervaise21 speak about. And i agree with the video. If they would have start with the release date trailer, then a gameplay trailer with someone that can play the game (warrior/rogue/ mage) and then show the companion trailer in the companion week. People wouldn't have so much energy to talk negative about it. All negative videos i have seen are videos from people that want to jump on the negative train. If we would have been more positive after the first trailer + gameplay, they wouldn't have a reason to do so.
It wouldn't have mattered. I have seen a lot of negative commentary about both the reveal trailer and a lot of stuff since then in regards to the IGN review video and a lot of it is...very base and low brow. The 'smooth headed Qunari' controversy? After the launch date reveal trailer. So it really wouldn't have mattered. People would have negative opinions and those who are deliberatley looking to find things to be negative about would find it no matter what because the rearanging of the trailers would not have changed the content of the game or the differences in gameplay. And the initial reveal trailer was very on brand for DA. We have seen stylized splash screens introducing characters in the actual course of DA video games before. Nothing of this should have been surprising, and we all saw the same game clips between those stylized clips, people calling it cartoony would've still been there. Let's agree to disagree. I think the people saying 'this looks cartoony' are mostly people that like to not change their opinion or see everything because of the first impression they have had. The very base and low brow comments comes mostly from people that wouldn't know the game exsist, if their favorite hate youtubers wouldn't have had made a video about it.
On the Qunari controverys you are right. This would be there unless they have had the dwarf tretment.
So in my eyes it would be more positive and it would bring people in that have an interest in this game. Yes we would have less videos about it, but i think these videos are something of a dilemma. Most of the time the hurt more than that they help.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2024 11:32:09 GMT
It wouldn't have mattered I think it would have mattered quite a bit, especially in luring newer fans or players. People outside the fandom or anti-fans usually need to be hooked by the initial reaction to the game. For many people, that would have been the reveal trailer. It's clear that the trailer was mixed at best. Subsequent trailers and marketing materials might not have reached a lot of people because many of them lost interest due to their initial reaction to the game. I don't know who planned that initial reveal, but that trailer has done a lot of damage to the game. I was cautiously optimistic before the reveal, but now I'm even more cautious. I don't know how high EA expects this game to perform, but I hope this should be their cue to start listening more closely to the fan. I'm sure you guys must have been annoyed each time someone pointed to Larian Studios, but the fact of the matter is, it's the best standard we have. They involved players in EA for over two years, listened to them to this day. Why can't BioWare just follow their example? I mean we're begging for content for 10 years and they're edging us to the very end lol. Last thing they should do is listen to 'fans' and this continues to prove it. Fan reaction and fan appraisal is often contradictory and has no idea about what happens on the internal behind the scenes of what makes a game a game or what unique challenges each product faces. And you also miss my point. My point isn't so much about the degree of the reaction but about that the negative opinions and people looking to drive clicks by having negative opinions would be there no matter what BioWare does. Its another reason that I really don't think fan opinion really is that...well informed in the end. If one looked at that first trailer and thought 'cartoony abomination that is the antisthes of Dragon Age' then they are either woefully uninformed about the history of the games they are talking about or have a really weird perception of past entries.
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Post by fairdragon on Sept 19, 2024 11:34:37 GMT
I'm sure you guys must have been annoyed each time someone pointed to Larian Studios I am not annoyed in regard of marketing. I can only say: This wouldn't be a approach i would have take, but we can't deny it's success. Their are many other thinks about Larian doing things and people wanting that, that annoy me.
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 19, 2024 11:41:20 GMT
Gotta have a little fun before the embargo Why Bellara looks so mad?
Oh my God. An unhappy Bellara face. Be careful. The last time I showed a weird Bellara face I got skewered by the "always happy crowd" or the "Bio can do no wrong" crowd.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Sept 19, 2024 11:48:07 GMT
Why Bellara looks so mad?
Oh my God. An unhappy Bellara face. Be careful. The last time I showed a weird Bellara face I got skewered by the "always happy crowd" or the "Bio can do no wrong" crowd. Why do you do your posts weird the weird line.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 19, 2024 11:48:48 GMT
Honestly still think I prefer the first trailer to the launch date trailer. It's a lot closer since I got over some of my initial displeasure but far less janky and far more representative of the Dragon Age experience/ the game they are obviously trying to build.
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