coldsteelblue
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Post by coldsteelblue on Mar 29, 2020 10:24:31 GMT
I guess it depends on whether the micro analysis is correct. Personally, I never thought the broodmothers were about fear of the female reproductive system or about “othering” fat people (which includes me) - I thought they demonstrated how horrific the darkspawn were, that they were so unnatural they could only reproduce by transforming women into grotesque, tentacled monsters that acted like baby factories. If they had just done that to women, that might be sexist, but the darkspawn also turn men into ghouls. The ghouls in Inquisition were pretty disgusting. The first time I saw them, I thought they were zombies. So it’s not like anyone’s having a good time during a Blight. But like I said in the other thread (before I deleted my post, sorry about that), they’ll probably get rid of the broodmothers in the future. BioWare seems to be putting a lot of effort into being inclusive these days and I can see why broodmothers offend people.
Couldn't agree with this more, but I doubt BW will get rid of Broodmothers altogether, I think what they'll do is retcon the lore to try to appease those offended, but someone needs to explain to BW that trying to offend no-one leads to more people being offended.
Personally I'd like to see Bw stick to their guns on this one, keep the horror & shock factor, because every time I see a Broodmother, Hespith's poem comes straight back into my head...great, it's in there now...
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Post by smilesja on Mar 29, 2020 16:20:30 GMT
The word “problematic” is really annoying. Yes the broodmother is problematic in a sense that they are monsters birthed from tragedy. Women being transformed into Darkspawn forever birthing Darkspawn to kill and reproduce forever. Just because it’s there doesn’t mean it’s sexist. This is why people are afraid to take risks now and days, people like that writer are closed minded and don’t want to think beyond their own dogma. They interpret EVERYTHING according to them. It’s self centered to be honest.
And no despite the “SJW” fear mongering that the internet loves to trot out, they’re not going to retcon Broodmothers because some random writer said they’re sexist.
Edit: I guess I need to rephrase that, she works as a UX designer for BioWare still my point stands.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 29, 2020 16:27:14 GMT
I guess it depends on whether the micro analysis is correct. Personally, I never thought the broodmothers were about fear of the female reproductive system or about “othering” fat people (which includes me) - I thought they demonstrated how horrific the darkspawn were, that they were so unnatural they could only reproduce by transforming women into grotesque, tentacled monsters that acted like baby factories. If they had just done that to women, that might be sexist, but the darkspawn also turn men into ghouls. The ghouls in Inquisition were pretty disgusting. The first time I saw them, I thought they were zombies. So it’s not like anyone’s having a good time during a Blight. But like I said in the other thread (before I deleted my post, sorry about that), they’ll probably get rid of the broodmothers in the future. BioWare seems to be putting a lot of effort into being inclusive these days and I can see why broodmothers offend people. There’s no such thing as sexism against men though. According to a feminist who won’t be named.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Mar 29, 2020 17:08:52 GMT
The way a see it- sexism is unfair treatment without any justification/reasoning behind it. Even in a parallel universe with no male darkspawn, I wouldn't call broodmothers existence a sexism. Broodmother is needed in order to create new darkspawns, since a woman can give birth. It's the main reason for them being involved at all.
So for me, her article is nitpicking something to an extreme level.
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Post by witchcocktor on Mar 29, 2020 17:21:24 GMT
I wonder what kind of feminist critique would be spun if Bioware decided that both men and women can give birth, and therefor become broodmothers.
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Post by smudjygirl on Mar 29, 2020 17:42:38 GMT
I always thought the Broodmothers best represented the perversion that is the Darkspawn. Plus I always assumed The Mother was human (or she is and i read it but don't remember) where Laryn was a dwarf (who could have been a Broodmother for a while and who knows how different races/time affect how they look). I did assume "violated" meant "raped", amongst other things. But Darkspawn are creatures of impulse, it's not a calculated act. A creature that can't reason can't be sexist, the author would have a point if that was how the Elves reproduced or something. Their destructive nature is part of what they are, and they are disgusting from the second they are born. Isn't that the point?
I get what they are trying to say, but it seems like reaching a bit.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 29, 2020 18:05:24 GMT
I wonder what kind of feminist critique would be spun if Bioware decided that both men and women can give birth, and therefor become broodmothers. They’ll ignore the man and focus on the woman.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Mar 29, 2020 20:48:54 GMT
I wonder what kind of feminist critique would be spun if Bioware decided that both men and women can give birth, and therefor become broodmothers. ...Surely they wouldn't, right?
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 29, 2020 21:05:46 GMT
I recall hearing once that they did debate allowing women to impregnate Morrigan through the Dark Ritual but decided it would require too additional explanation on top of being kind of goofy.
Of course, a lot of those folks have left now. You can interpret that how you choose.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 21:34:57 GMT
I wonder what kind of feminist critique would be spun if Bioware decided that both men and women can give birth, and therefor become broodmothers. ...Surely they wouldn't, right? Trans men can have operational uteruses. They're men and can give birth. *shrug*
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midnight tea
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 29, 2020 21:52:42 GMT
*sigh* I guess this needs to be pulled out again, at least s a response to certain type of responses. I'm relatively neutral on this particular matter (and don't have much time to spend discussing things on a forum these days), but I think people may be missing a big part of the critique of such elements. Diegetic:
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 29, 2020 21:54:59 GMT
...Surely they wouldn't, right? Trans men can have operational uteruses. They're men and can give birth. *shrug* Sorry, but that’s not really relevant to the discussion. The question was whether BioWare would make it so that men who lack operational uteruses could birth darkspawn in the same way as broodmothers. I don’t think they would, but they’re probably going to modify darkspawn in the future so that they reproduce through spores or eggs or something.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 29, 2020 22:13:51 GMT
*sigh* I guess this needs to be pulled out again, at least s a response to certain type of responses. I'm relatively neutral on this particular matter (and don't have much time to spend discussing things on a forum these days), but I think people may be missing a big part of the critique of such elements. Diegetic: Doesn't mean her critique is flawed or that she's reaching in a lot of her arguments.
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 29, 2020 22:16:17 GMT
*sigh* I guess this needs to be pulled out again, at least s a response to certain type of responses. I'm relatively neutral on this particular matter (and don't have much time to spend discussing things on a forum these days), but I think people may be missing a big part of the critique of such elements. Diegetic: Barf! I got about halfway through that before I had to turn that off. That dude’s voice was grating. There’s a point that’s failing to be acknowledged here: the importance of consistency in maintaining the audience’s immersion in a fictional work. Let’s say I’m writing about a superhero whose only weakness is Diet Coke. Then I write a story where the villain lowers the hero into a vat of Diet Coke, but the hero bursts out of the vat saying “I‘ve overcome my weakness! Now only Dr. Pepper affects me!” Of course, it’s fiction and I can do whatever the hell I want. But in doing so, I’ve damaged the immersion of my audience. If I’m willing to arbitrarily change the hero’s weakness to get out of the corner I’ve written myself into, what else might I change in the future on a whim? Why bother getting invested in a cast if the author might throw out all their characterization at a moment’s notice? We saw that when Captain America was turned into a Nazi. Sure, it was explained in-universe, but it flew in the face of all prior characterization and threw out established canon. That’s why people objected so strongly to “Captain Hydra.” BioWare has firmly established that darkspawn are birthed by women turned into broodmothers. That obviously offends some people and will now probably be changed in the future, but in doing so, it may damage the immersion of the audience. For the folks who were offended, that’s worth the trade-off, but what about the folks who DIDN’T particularly find the broodmother offensive and even wanted to see them re-appear in the game?
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FireAndBlood
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Post by FireAndBlood on Mar 29, 2020 22:43:02 GMT
Some people are really overestimating the amount of power a UX designer has on the finished product.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 29, 2020 23:30:27 GMT
Some people are really overestimating the amount of power a UX designer has on the finished product. True looking forward to the next clickbait Youtuber to say: DRAGON AGE IS DOOMED! BIO GOES WOKE AGAIN! THIS IS WHY THE WITCHER IS BETTER BECAUSE THEY DON'T BOW DOWN TO THE SJWS!!!!!!!
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Post by ellawyn on Mar 30, 2020 1:14:53 GMT
Guys, I finished Tevinter Nights less than twenty four hours ago and I'm already desperate for new Dragon Age content.
Where is DA4 Bioware. WHERE IS IT.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 30, 2020 1:24:50 GMT
Guys, I finished Tevinter Nights less than twenty four hours ago and I'm already desperate for new Dragon Age content. Where is DA4 Bioware. WHERE IS IT. Hopefully they show at least a full trailer for it soon. Both so we can see the trailer and also so they can actually start talking about it.
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Post by apollexander on Mar 30, 2020 1:59:23 GMT
Trans men can have operational uteruses. They're men and can give birth. *shrug* Sorry, but that’s not really relevant to the discussion. The question was whether BioWare would make it so that men who lack operational uteruses could birth darkspawn in the same way as broodmothers. I don’t think they would, but they’re probably going to modify darkspawn in the future so that they reproduce through spores or eggs or something. Not in the future, but in Awakening darkspawn children were born through cocoons.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 30, 2020 2:09:11 GMT
Sorry, but that’s not really relevant to the discussion. The question was whether BioWare would make it so that men who lack operational uteruses could birth darkspawn in the same way as broodmothers. I don’t think they would, but they’re probably going to modify darkspawn in the future so that they reproduce through spores or eggs or something. Not in the future, but in Awakening darkspawn children were born through cocoons. I imagine the Broodmother lays the cocoons, then the other Darkspawn move them elsewhere before they hatch. Similar to insect hives. Hence why we didn’t see any near the one in the base game or the ones in Awakening
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Mar 30, 2020 2:40:22 GMT
Guys, I finished Tevinter Nights less than twenty four hours ago and I'm already desperate for new Dragon Age content. Where is DA4 Bioware. WHERE IS IT. The book could have been another 300 pages, and I'd still want more. The thirst is real, guys.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 30, 2020 3:06:16 GMT
Guys, I finished Tevinter Nights less than twenty four hours ago and I'm already desperate for new Dragon Age content. Where is DA4 Bioware. WHERE IS IT. The book could have been another 300 pages, and I'd still want more. The thirst is real, guys. Time to replay Inquisition again.
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Post by Addictress on Mar 30, 2020 3:24:30 GMT
The way a see it- sexism is unfair treatment without any justification/reasoning behind it. Even in a parallel universe with no male darkspawn, I wouldn't call broodmothers existence a sexism. Broodmother is needed in order to create new darkspawns, since a woman can give birth. It's the main reason for them being involved at all. So for me, her article is nitpicking something to an extreme level. I don't think the brood mother is sexist but Racism and sexism do not exist without preexisting context and systemic precedent. To be unfair against some class alone as a minority is prejudice, not racism or sexism.
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Post by azarhal on Mar 30, 2020 11:36:23 GMT
Trans men can have operational uteruses. They're men and can give birth. *shrug* Sorry, but that’s not really relevant to the discussion. The question was whether BioWare would make it so that men who lack operational uteruses could birth darkspawn in the same way as broodmothers. I don’t think they would, but they’re probably going to modify darkspawn in the future so that they reproduce through spores or eggs or something. In biology, the term female and male are linked to the reproductive organs. Spore reproduction has female (megaspore) and male (microspore) organs too. Eggs are always created by a female organ. Broodmothers would be considered female even if male could be turned into one or reproduce by spore or eggs, because from a biological point-of-view, they do the job of a female reproduction organ. And they should have kept the female Warden impregnating Morrigan. Parthenogenesis is a working reproduction system and I'm sure magic can make that workable for humans in Thedas.
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Post by arvaarad on Mar 30, 2020 13:08:57 GMT
Even ignoring any out-of-game considerations, broodmothers strike me as a bunch of darkspawn bumbling around, trying to hack together a solution.
Broodmothers as described in Origins couldn’t have made the first darkspawn, because they require preexisting darkspawn to work. Bringing any humanoid reproduction into the picture is weird on a purely biological level, because darkspawn didn’t evolve naturally.
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