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Post by azarhal on Mar 30, 2020 14:57:34 GMT
Broodmothers as described in Origins couldn’t have made the first darkspawn, because they require preexisting darkspawn to work. Bringing any humanoid reproduction into the picture is weird on a purely biological level, because darkspawn didn’t evolve naturally. Broodmothers, as described in Origins, are mutated ghouls. They are people who contacted the tainted, survived it and then mutated. They do not need darkspawn to exist, they only need the Taint. The darkspawn facilitate making ghouls so they can turn into broodmothers, but nothing in the process requires them (they are asexual and have no reproduction organs, that's why they need broodmothers). Broodmothers reproduce via (fantasy) parthenogenesis. The Taint spread and came first. Then Broodmothers mutated with a thirst. And tus darkspawns were born with a burst.
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 30, 2020 15:02:15 GMT
Broodmothers would be considered female even if male could be turned into one or reproduce by spore or eggs, because from a biological point-of-view, they do the job of a female reproduction organ. I was envisioning something closer to the Orks from W40K, which release spores upon death that grow into new Orks. I could see BioWare changing it so that new darkspawn just “grow” from dead darkspawn, or from bodies of other races, eliminating the need for broodmothers entirely. I’m not necessarily in favour of this new method of darkspawn reproduction, mind you. I’m just saying that I could see BioWare adopting it. Broodmothers as described in Origins couldn’t have made the first darkspawn, because they require preexisting darkspawn to work. Bringing any humanoid reproduction into the picture is weird on a purely biological level, because darkspawn didn’t evolve naturally. They didn’t. We know where the first darkspawn came from, ie. the Seven. It’s clear they made the first broodmothers, which in turn birthed armies of second-generation darkspawn.
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Post by legbamel on Mar 30, 2020 16:30:02 GMT
For me, it's the sheer number of mammary glands that make the broodmothers so bizarre. I envision them spawning nothing I would ever want to contemplate breastfeeding so why do they have 20 boobs?! The fact that they are created by repeated rape and forced cannibalism, as Hespith tells us, is more than enough to create all the horror needed.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 30, 2020 17:33:44 GMT
For me, it's the sheer number of mammary glands that make the broodmothers so bizarre. I envision them spawning nothing I would ever want to contemplate breastfeeding so why do they have 20 boobs?! The fact that they are created by repeated rape and forced cannibalism, as Hespith tells us, is more than enough to create all the horror needed. There isn’t rape.
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Post by legbamel on Mar 30, 2020 17:41:53 GMT
In what other way are the women impregnated in order to give birth to swarms of darkspawn? Given the reference to "violation" it seems pretty clear to me that there is, indeed, rape involved in the the process...unless you're somehow implying there was consent. At some point, I suppose a partially converted ghoul could consent.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 30, 2020 17:50:37 GMT
In what other way are the women impregnated in order to give birth to swarms of darkspawn? Given the reference to "violation" it seems pretty clear to me that there is, indeed, rape involved in the the process...unless you're somehow implying there was consent. At some point, I suppose a partially converted ghoul could consent. They are impregnated from the Taint itself. Darkspawn themselves are asexual and are unable to reproduce. They physically lack the equipment to do it. Violated has many meanings. For example violating someone’s personal space doesn’t mean you raped it. From the lore, the violation is the being changed into the Broodmother. I’m pretty sure a dev also clarified this on the old forums. All of this doesn’t make the process any less monstrous, but just pointing out how part of it is misunderstood.
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Post by TabithaTH on Mar 30, 2020 17:52:43 GMT
Have to admit, I've also taken it as them force feeding taint to women and forcing them to eat their kin and nothing else.
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Post by smudjygirl on Mar 30, 2020 17:59:36 GMT
Have to admit, I've also taken it as them force feeding taint to women and forcing them to eat their kin and nothing else. I thought it meant rape because the poem mentions that as an "they took us, killed the men, made us eat our loved ones, violated us and now we are them". I interpreted that as a list, but that the 'violation' was a mix of everything they went through and i thought that included 'sexual violation'. I mean, it's horrific enough without anything else, so i honestly would prefer if i misunderstood that one.
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 30, 2020 18:09:56 GMT
Jay Watamaniuk @jaywatamaniuk Second draft of conversation done. Time to...(checks Outlook schedule)...pet the cats.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Mar 30, 2020 18:42:28 GMT
Isn't Jay still on Anthem?
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 30, 2020 21:08:12 GMT
Isn't Jay still on Anthem? He was, I thought he had switched over to DA a little while back.
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 30, 2020 21:23:52 GMT
Nevertheless, that tweet is still topical because cats
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 31, 2020 14:58:35 GMT
In what other way are the women impregnated in order to give birth to swarms of darkspawn? Given the reference to "violation" it seems pretty clear to me that there is, indeed, rape involved in the the process...unless you're somehow implying there was consent. At some point, I suppose a partially converted ghoul could consent. They are impregnated from the Taint itself. Darkspawn themselves are asexual and are unable to reproduce. They physically lack the equipment to do it. Violated has many meanings. For example violating someone’s personal space doesn’t mean you raped it. From the lore, the violation is the being changed into the Broodmother. I’m pretty sure a dev also clarified this on the old forums. All of this doesn’t make the process any less monstrous, but just pointing out how part of it is misunderstood. I actually tended to assume rape was implied by that creepy poem, but I admit the exact process, if there is any more to it, beyond being forced to consume tainted flesh is left unspecified by the game. Taking the opportunity to comment on the article, the broodmothers are horrifying for what was done to them and how they’ve been twisted to the darkspawn’s purpose, robbed of their minds and bodies coopted to produce evil creatures. Not for what they are, as the author sees it, being “fat and female” (What on earth...). This is the sort of analysis that seems to be the result of an author deciding to make a class issue of something and fishing to justify it. I actually appreciate the broodmothers as their horrific origins help the darkspawn stand out in a sea of generic fantasy monster hordes.. If the developers want to avoid the issue, I suspect they’ll just avoid talking about or referencing broodmothers in the future.
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 31, 2020 15:41:28 GMT
Personally my theory is that the emissary redesign was more than cosmetic and some women among the original seven became the first broodmothers, being the sole source of relatively intelligent magic using darkspawn which then began to make others.
That’s neither here nor there though.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Mar 31, 2020 15:59:53 GMT
Personally my theory is that the emissary redesign was more than cosmetic and some women among the original seven became the first broodmothers, being the sole source of relatively intelligent magic using darkspawn which then began to make others. That’s neither here nor there though. Well, there are records of at least one of them Killing and eating another.
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Post by azarhal on Mar 31, 2020 16:26:13 GMT
Personally my theory is that the emissary redesign was more than cosmetic and some women among the original seven became the first broodmothers, being the sole source of relatively intelligent magic using darkspawn which then began to make others. That’s neither here nor there though. I had that theory too and we even have a candidate: The Mother. She's the only broodmother to use magic and her upper appearance (head/shoulder) isn't that different from what she used to be (human) compared to the normal broodmothers. Personally my theory is that the emissary redesign was more than cosmetic and some women among the original seven became the first broodmothers, being the sole source of relatively intelligent magic using darkspawn which then began to make others. That’s neither here nor there though. Well, there are records of at least one of them Killing and eating another. I never realized that this story is retold only through male characters and the person who is angry and probably eat another one is identified with a "she". How many of the 7 Magisters were female? Do we even know?
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 31, 2020 16:41:58 GMT
Personally my theory is that the emissary redesign was more than cosmetic and some women among the original seven became the first broodmothers, being the sole source of relatively intelligent magic using darkspawn which then began to make others. That’s neither here nor there though. I had that theory too and we even have a candidate: The Mother. She's the only broodmother to use magic and her upper appearance (head/shoulder) isn't that different from what she used to be (human) compared to the normal broodmothers. I never realized that this story is retold only through male characters and the person who is angry and probably eat another one is identified with a "she". How many of the 7 Magisters were female? Do we even know? I think the answer is in TWoT v2, I believe some or all of them are explicitly gendered there. I’ll dig it out later.
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 31, 2020 17:10:48 GMT
Justin Masse justinmasseToday's my 4 year anniversary at BioWare, time fly's! I could not have have joined a more amazing team, absolutely love the passion each of them bring daily. Would not want to be anywhere else, here's to another 4 years 🎉
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Post by azarhal on Mar 31, 2020 18:30:28 GMT
I had that theory too and we even have a candidate: The Mother. She's the only broodmother to use magic and her upper appearance (head/shoulder) isn't that different from what she used to be (human) compared to the normal broodmothers. I never realized that this story is retold only through male characters and the person who is angry and probably eat another one is identified with a "she". How many of the 7 Magisters were female? Do we even know? I think the answer is in TWoT v2, I believe some or all of them are explicitly gendered there. I’ll dig it out later. *dig out* yeah for working from home. TWoT v2 has their titles, but not their gender unless we take Watchman/Madman as a gendered title. That leaves the Forgewright, Augur and Appraiser who are only mentioned by titles. So 3 or less as we already know Cory and Archi.
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Post by FireAndBlood on Mar 31, 2020 19:30:52 GMT
Weren’t the High Priests of the Old Gods all male and that’s why the Black Divine and the Imperial Grand Clerics are all male as well?
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 31, 2020 19:52:53 GMT
I could have sworn some of them were confirmed female, but I’ll need to look at the sources again.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 31, 2020 20:09:52 GMT
Weren’t the High Priests of the Old Gods all male and that’s why the Black Divine and the Imperial Grand Clerics are all male as well? The Tevinter Chantry has all males basically out of spite towards the Southern Chantry and their all female leadership.
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Post by melbella on Apr 1, 2020 0:25:44 GMT
I could have sworn some of them were confirmed female, but I’ll need to look at the sources again.
Maybe you are thinking of the old gods, like Razikale, instead?
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Post by phoray on Apr 1, 2020 1:23:11 GMT
Weren’t the High Priests of the Old Gods all male and that’s why the Black Divine and the Imperial Grand Clerics are all male as well? The Tevinter Chantry has all males basically out of spite towards the Southern Chantry and their all female leadership. But the split from the chantry and the switch to All Men was AFTER the creation of the 7.
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Post by azarhal on Apr 1, 2020 2:34:53 GMT
The Tevinter Chantry has all males basically out of spite towards the Southern Chantry and their all female leadership. But the split from the chantry and the switch to All Men was AFTER the creation of the 7. The Chantry schism happened at the end of the Tower age (3:87) after almost 300 years of conflict over politics and beliefs on magic, who was Andraste, etc. The Imperial Chantry branch always allowed men (and mages) into the priesthood (it shouldn't be all male technically), even before the schism. The Magister Sideral stories was also pushed by the Orlesian Chantry after the 3rd Blight (3:10-25) and Tevinter, going by Dorian, still believe it was hogwash before DAI happened.
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