telanadas
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Post by telanadas on Jun 28, 2020 7:20:31 GMT
hmm the way I see it, the Inquisitor's role in the next game could be like Cassandra's in DA2 - the main vehicle that drives the story forward.
I think the Inquisitor should definitely still be there for the big events, but only as an advisor and not as a playable npc. It's already been set up that the Inquisition needs to be working against Solas "in the shadows", and tbh the Inquisitor is too recognisable without the arm to do much good in the field.
I agree their story doesn't feel finished though and it would be nice to get a definitive conclusion.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 28, 2020 7:31:00 GMT
hmm the way I see it, the Inquisitor's role in the next game could be like Cassandra's in DA2 - the main vehicle that drives the story forward. I think the Inquisitor should definitely still be there for the big events, but only as an advisor and not as a playable npc. It's already been set up that the Inquisition needs to be working against Solas "in the shadows", and tbh the Inquisitor is too recognisable without the arm to do much good in the field. I agree their story doesn't feel finished though and it would be nice to get a definitive conclusion. They could have a prosthetic, since Tevinter Nights coincidentally established those not only being a thing in Thedas but mentions and shows how they don’t impede in adventuring or combat. And if the prosthetic is too noticeable, there are these inventions called gloves.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 28, 2020 7:59:03 GMT
They could have a prosthetic, since Tevinter Nights coincidentally established those not only being a thing in Thedas but mentions and shows how they don’t impede in adventuring or combat. And if the prosthetic is too noticeable, there are these inventions called gloves. I did wonder if they introduced the idea there so it was already established before the next game and thus would make it less of a surprise if the Inquisitor did re-appear with two arms. I always thought that if they were going to bring them back it would explain why they had to relearn a lot of their abilities. However, I am veering more towards them appearing as some sort of role like TIM in ME2, may be even speaking with the new protagonist via memory crystal, rather than in a dual-protagonist role. There is also the possibility they may bring back the Inquisitor only to kill them off at an early stage. Everyone would be inclined to blame Solas for this but Charter at least would question he was responsible and to be honest it could be just about anyone from the Executors, to the Venatori, to the Qunari or a rogue agent of Solas (if you believe that any of his agents would be willing to cross him on this). Charter employs the new PC to discover the truth on this, among other information needed for the fight against Solas. Alternatively, our new protagonist could successfully recover the red lyrium idol and deliver it to the Inquisitor, only for the Dread Wolf to attack and kill everyone present bar the new PC, who only survives through sheer luck, in order to acquire it. He did warn this would be the case with anyone who got in his way. Now our new PC has a personal involvement to drive them forwards.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 28, 2020 8:01:52 GMT
They could have a prosthetic, since Tevinter Nights coincidentally established those not only being a thing in Thedas but mentions and shows how they don’t impede in adventuring or combat. And if the prosthetic is too noticeable, there are these inventions called gloves. I did wonder if they introduced the idea there so it was already established before the next game and thus would make it less of a surprise if the Inquisitor did re-appear with two arms. I always thought that if they were going to bring them back it would explain why they had to relearn a lot of their abilities. However, I am veering more towards them appearing as some sort of role like TIM in ME2, may be even speaking with the new protagonist via memory crystal, rather than in a dual-protagonist role. There is also the possibility they may bring back the Inquisitor only to kill them off at an early stage. Everyone would be inclined to blame Solas for this but Charter at least would question he was responsible and to be honest it could be just about anyone from the Executors, to the Venatori, to the Qunari or a rogue agent of Solas (if you believe that any of his agents would be willing to cross him on this). Charter employs the new PC to discover the truth on this, among other information needed for the fight against Solas. Alternatively, our new protagonist could successfully recover the red lyrium idol and deliver it to the Inquisitor, only for the Dread Wolf to attack and kill everyone present bar the new PC, who only survives through sheer luck, in order to acquire it. He did warn this would be the case if anyone who got in his way. Now our new PC has a personal involvement to drive them forwards. I do like this idea too because it means that the new protagonist gets involved in a story in a kind of interesting mirror inverse of the Inquisitor.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 28, 2020 8:04:01 GMT
They could have a prosthetic, since Tevinter Nights coincidentally established those not only being a thing in Thedas but mentions and shows how they don’t impede in adventuring or combat. And if the prosthetic is too noticeable, there are these inventions called gloves. I did wonder if they introduced the idea there so it was already established before the next game and thus would make it less of a surprise if the Inquisitor did re-appear with two arms. I always thought that if they were going to bring them back it would explain why they had to relearn a lot of their abilities. However, I am veering more towards them appearing as some sort of role like TIM in ME2, may be even speaking with the new protagonist via memory crystal, rather than in a dual-protagonist role. There is also the possibility they may bring back the Inquisitor only to kill them off at an early stage. Everyone would be inclined to blame Solas for this but Charter at least would question he was responsible and to be honest it could be just about anyone from the Executors, to the Venatori, to the Qunari or a rogue agent of Solas (if you believe that any of his agents would be willing to cross him on this). Charter employs the new PC to discover the truth on this, among other information needed for the fight against Solas. Alternatively, our new protagonist could successfully recover the red lyrium idol and deliver it to the Inquisitor, only for the Dread Wolf to attack and kill everyone present bar the new PC, who only survives through sheer luck, in order to acquire it. He did warn this would be the case if anyone who got in his way. Now our new PC has a personal involvement to drive them forwards. No thanks. It destroys any unique connection between protagonist and antagonist and just replaces it with another sole survivor story. Also kills off my favorite protagonist and others while Solas becomes Corypheus 2.0.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 28, 2020 8:05:39 GMT
I did wonder if they introduced the idea there so it was already established before the next game and thus would make it less of a surprise if the Inquisitor did re-appear with two arms. I always thought that if they were going to bring them back it would explain why they had to relearn a lot of their abilities. However, I am veering more towards them appearing as some sort of role like TIM in ME2, may be even speaking with the new protagonist via memory crystal, rather than in a dual-protagonist role. There is also the possibility they may bring back the Inquisitor only to kill them off at an early stage. Everyone would be inclined to blame Solas for this but Charter at least would question he was responsible and to be honest it could be just about anyone from the Executors, to the Venatori, to the Qunari or a rogue agent of Solas (if you believe that any of his agents would be willing to cross him on this). Charter employs the new PC to discover the truth on this, among other information needed for the fight against Solas. Alternatively, our new protagonist could successfully recover the red lyrium idol and deliver it to the Inquisitor, only for the Dread Wolf to attack and kill everyone present bar the new PC, who only survives through sheer luck, in order to acquire it. He did warn this would be the case if anyone who got in his way. Now our new PC has a personal involvement to drive them forwards. No thanks. It destroys any unique connection between protagonist and antagonist and just replaces it with another sole survivor story. Also kills off my favorite protagonist and others while Solas becomes Corypheus 2.0. Solas and Corypheus already do have a lot in common as it is so..
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 28, 2020 8:06:59 GMT
No thanks. It destroys any unique connection between protagonist and antagonist and just replaces it with another sole survivor story. Also kills off my favorite protagonist and others while Solas becomes Corypheus 2.0. Solas and Corypheus already do have a lot in common as it is so.. Which is why BioWare should be looking for ways to differentiate them rather than make them even more similar. Like having the relationship with the protagonist that Inky and Solas have (regardless of what that relationship is).
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 28, 2020 9:04:09 GMT
Which is why BioWare should be looking for ways to differentiate them rather than make them even more similar. They are already different, since I don't recall Corypheus ever apologising for his actions. He was utterly convinced he deserved to be a god. By contrast Solas is conflicted over what he feels he must do and constantly insists he is not a god. He even admits to being prideful, foolish and hot headed, which shows a degree of introspection that Corypheus never had. Solas' motives are not self-glorification but a desire to make amends for his past mistakes. That is why he comes across as a tragic anti-hero rather than an outright villain, which makes him far more interesting as an opponent. Where they are alike is in the single-minded determination to restore a world that they think was better than the current one. In a way both brought about the destruction of their empire through their actions, even though that was not their intent, and having seen the results of their former work, they now wish to fix it. However, Solas has admitted that if he thought there was an alternative he might be convinced to take different action, which again distinguishes him from Corypheus. I think we have only scratched the surface with Solas and there is far more to find out about his character and motivations. Just because the Inquisitor has spent time with him and has an already established relationship with him (for good or ill) doesn't mean a new PC could not do so as well. After Trespasser I was convinced that the Inquisitor would be returning the next game, until I saw that presentation by PW that claimed that was exactly not what they intended. Had the new game been brought out by now, I would probably have still felt I wanted the Inquisitor back, but so much time has passed that I now feel I would rather approach the problem of Solas with a fresh character. Solas chose not to let the Inquisitor die at the end of Trespasser because he wanted to avoid the chaos that would ensue in the south. He seemed rather to want the chaos to transfer to the north. However, he made it quite clear in Trespasser that he had been willing to sacrifice people he cared about in the past to achieve his aims and had no mercy for those who crossed him. In Tevinter Nights he admits it was a moment of weakness telling the Inquisitor as much as he did. The end of his story had him saying that the Dread Wolf would destroy anyone who got in his way without regret or hesitation. So the scenario I describe above would be perfectly in character. If Solas was to kill the Inquisitor, particularly a romanced Inquisitor) surely that would be a big enough emotional shock that you would still be engaged in wanting to finish the story? I'd also point to the close friendship he clearly had with Mythal, yet had no qualms about killing Flemeth (who was talking in the person of Mythal in their encounter) in order that Mythal could join her power to his. Remember how his last words to her were "I'm so sorry," with a catch in his voice. His final words that he asked Charter to convey to the Inquisitor: His voice faltered. "Say that I am sorry". To my mind when Solas tells you he is sorry, that person is close to death.
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Post by coldsteelblue on Jun 28, 2020 9:45:22 GMT
Personally I think the inquisitor should've been killed off at the end of trespasser, it's the best way to "conclusively tie off" a character, or they should die at the start of DA4, either as they recruit the new pc, or, even be killed by the pc as an interesting twist to the start of the game.
The gameplay could even be very different than what we've seen in the past, for all we know, each chapter/main mission could be carried out by a different team, especially if the heist idea has carried over from the previous iteration & thus, we don't actually have a pc, we just play a series of war table type missions - thought I doubt that will actually be the case.
Either way, I'm getting sick & tired of these protagonist arguments, it's always the same shit, over & over & over again & I don't know about anyone else, but it's getting tiresome, make a bloody thread about it & keep the discussion to that, then it's much easier to ignore the same crap adnauseam.
I've said all I'm going to on this
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Post by Shari'El on Jun 28, 2020 9:48:46 GMT
I think we have only scratched the surface with Solas and there is far more to find out about his character and motivations. Just because the Inquisitor has spent time with him and has an already established relationship with him (for good or ill) doesn't mean a new PC could not do so as well. The only way I can see that happening is if we play an ex-agent of Fen'Harel or an ancient elf, and even in those cases I can't really see Solas casually talking to people he's working with, he's very distant as the Dread Wolf - he trusts no body. That's why after what happened in Deception he started searching for the lyrium idol by himself (at least I think he is, going the "Dread Wolf Take You"), he won't even tell his agents why he needs the idol, so they end up doing stupid things like trading it for information. The only interactions I can imagine with Solas for a new protag are short and negative, kinda like with Corypheus.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 28, 2020 11:13:34 GMT
The only way I can see that happening is if we play an ex-agent of Fen'Harel or an ancient elf, and even in those cases I can't really see Solas casually talking to people he's working with, he's very distant as the Dread Wolf - he trusts no body. The person can start to identify with Solas even when they aren't actually working alongside him. They can discover more about him before he became the Dread Wolf, why he was always depicted as a wolf even before he rebelled against the Evanuris, more about why he believes he has to take the action he plans. The Inquisitor may have an emotional connection with Solas but it is clear they never really knew him. He only told them as much as he wanted to and to some extent he was always manipulating them. According the PW the reason he broke up with Lavellan is because he could see it was morally wrong to stay in the relationship. He has also made it clear since that nothing and no one is going to stand in his way, so the Inquisitor doesn't really have any advantage over someone else. He will kill them if he has to. As you say, he trusts no one, so knowing him in advance carries no weight with him either. To be honest, I'll take whatever comes with regard to the continued participation of the Inquisitor or not, I'd just like the waiting to be over.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Jun 28, 2020 12:34:44 GMT
gervaise21, damn, you paint both extremely fascinating and totally heartbreaking picture (for me, Solavellan adept) Killing Inquisitor off at the start does provide a great wake up call for the player- to show that shit got real. And the parallel with "I am so sorry" makes you wonder. Though come to think of it, Inquisitor doesn't have a mark anymore, doesn't have that much influence. Seems to me Solas already neutralized them as much as possible. Now, why would he kill them off? They are important, but not crucial- even without Inquisitor, all parties will still oppose Solas. As for the new PC- clearly, they will make him special 'one of the kind guy". Cause it's Bioware. at the same time, I'd prefer a change in that regard- Hawke was just one of Ferelden refugees, who made it. And their story was just as great, as survivours like HoF or Inquisitor.
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 28, 2020 13:04:26 GMT
gervaise21 , damn, you paint both extremely fascinating and totally heartbreaking picture (for me, Solavellan adept) Killing Inquisitor off at the start does provide a great wake up call for the player- to show that shit got real. And the parallel with "I am so sorry" makes you wonder. Though come to think of it, Inquisitor doesn't have a mark anymore, doesn't have that much influence. Seems to me Solas already neutralized them as much as possible. Now, why would he kill them off? They are important, but not crucial- even without Inquisitor, all parties will still oppose Solas. As for the new PC- clearly, they will make him special 'one of the kind guy". Cause it's Bioware. at the same time, I'd prefer a change in that regard- Hawke was just one of Ferelden refugees, who made it. And their story was just as great, as survivours like HoF or Inquisitor. I dislike the inquisitor but killing them in the intro would be a very cheap. I’m still annoyed at alien 3 for that.
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Post by smudjygirl on Jun 28, 2020 13:10:35 GMT
gervaise21 , damn, you paint both extremely fascinating and totally heartbreaking picture (for me, Solavellan adept) Killing Inquisitor off at the start does provide a great wake up call for the player- to show that shit got real. And the parallel with "I am so sorry" makes you wonder. Though come to think of it, Inquisitor doesn't have a mark anymore, doesn't have that much influence. Seems to me Solas already neutralized them as much as possible. Now, why would he kill them off? They are important, but not crucial- even without Inquisitor, all parties will still oppose Solas. As for the new PC- clearly, they will make him special 'one of the kind guy". Cause it's Bioware. at the same time, I'd prefer a change in that regard- Hawke was just one of Ferelden refugees, who made it. And their story was just as great, as survivours like HoF or Inquisitor. I dislike the inquisitor but killing them in the intro would be a very cheap. I’m still annoyed at alien 3 for that. I also would hate for 'killing off the last PC' to be a thing that happens more than once, and you can already do that with Hawke. If we're in Tevinter, have the Inquisitor be doing things in Orlais and Ferelden rather than killing them for cheap impact.
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Post by telanadas on Jun 28, 2020 13:36:17 GMT
The only way I can see that happening is if we play an ex-agent of Fen'Harel or an ancient elf, and even in those cases I can't really see Solas casually talking to people he's working with, he's very distant as the Dread Wolf - he trusts no body. The person can start to identify with Solas even when they aren't actually working alongside him. They can discover more about him before he became the Dread Wolf, why he was always depicted as a wolf even before he rebelled against the Evanuris, more about why he believes he has to take the action he plans. The Inquisitor may have an emotional connection with Solas but it is clear they never really knew him. He only told them as much as he wanted to and to some extent he was always manipulating them. According the PW the reason he broke up with Lavellan is because he could see it was morally wrong to stay in the relationship. He has also made it clear since that nothing and no one is going to stand in his way, so the Inquisitor doesn't really have any advantage over someone else. He will kill them if he has to. As you say, he trusts no one, so knowing him in advance carries no weight with him either. To be honest, I'll take whatever comes with regard to the continued participation of the Inquisitor or not, I'd just like the waiting to be over. I can relate so much. ._. I just want answers and at this point I will also take what I can get But yeah, I personally don't think having a new protagonist would completely overrule the emotional connection the Inquisitor may have formed with Solas in DAI. It'd just provide a different perspective and chance to see Solas for who he truly is and what he is capable of without the burden of events in DAI. And I don't think the inquisitor's potential death would be a cheap trick at all, actually that's the kinda thing I think would make the story arc extra interesting- to see the full consequences of his actions.
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Post by Frost on Jun 28, 2020 14:37:36 GMT
I am fairly certain the Inquisitor will not be killed in the intro. That would be a very cheap move.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 28, 2020 15:17:40 GMT
If Solas was to kill the Inquisitor, particularly a romanced Inquisitor) surely that would be a big enough emotional shock that you would still be engaged in wanting to finish the story? No. The only engagement that would happen is the starting up of my car’s engine as I head to the game store to return it and any other BioWare game I have.
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Post by smudjygirl on Jun 28, 2020 15:22:42 GMT
If Solas was to kill the Inquisitor, particularly a romanced Inquisitor) surely that would be a big enough emotional shock that you would still be engaged in wanting to finish the story? No. The only engagement that would happen is the starting up of my car’s engine as I head to the game store to return it and any other BioWare game I have. Also the fact they're always saying "it has to be welcoming to new fans!" so what would be the point? It wouldn't have an affect on the players that don't know or don't like Solas and would probably just anger a lot of those who do like him.
I think he won't kill the Inquisitor because doing so 'would cause needless panic'.
I do agree with Hanako, if that happens i probably wouldn't continue with the game.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 28, 2020 15:34:18 GMT
I am fairly certain the Inquisitor will not be killed in the intro. That would be a very cheap move. Kill? It would certainly be strange with all that build-up we've seen so far. But something may happen that may make them look like they're killed or eliminated (...and thus our new PC will somehow take the reins of Shadow Inquisition?). To be honest, that's what I thought Trespasser would end like, before I first played it - Inquisitor will get lost in eluvian network, or the Fade or 'die' and will return at some crucial story moment some time later. And it's not an improbable scenario for opening of DA4.
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Post by marikahaliwell on Jun 28, 2020 15:41:29 GMT
If Solas was to kill the Inquisitor, particularly a romanced Inquisitor) surely that would be a big enough emotional shock that you would still be engaged in wanting to finish the story? No. The only engagement that would happen is the starting up of my car’s engine as I head to the game store to return it and any other BioWare game I have. OH, and if killing the Inquisitor is not enough, Bioware could slap us in the face and have the Pc finding the remains of a dead warden, somewhere. The letter you get from its body confirms that it was the surviving HoF. Dead trying to find a cure for the Calling.
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Post by ClarkKent on Jun 28, 2020 15:46:52 GMT
I don't think killing off the Inquisitor would be terribly inspired, especially if it's unavoidable.
If nothing else it would deeply weaken the playability of DAI. I don't want to spend eighty hours carefully building up a character just to see him trip on a banana skin, and break his neck in the first five minutes of the next game.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jun 28, 2020 15:46:59 GMT
My crazy idea: the prologue of DA4 includes Solas deciding to turn the Inquisitor to stone after all.
We know that Solas can do this, and we know people survive this process. We've met at least half a dozen talking statues that used to be humans - specifically Eleni Zenovia, the statues of War and Peace in Awakening, the pirates from Isabela's Mark of the Assassin side-quest. The pirates can even be turned back to flesh if you complete the quest the right way.
It would explain why the Inquisitor is not running around defeating Solas themselves but still let them play a role in the story. And getting my Inquisitors un-stoned would certainly give me an extra motivation to solve the plot.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jun 28, 2020 16:11:16 GMT
It's more the meta. I don't know why BW would've made that exchange be the very last thing we see in DAI if they didn't intend for it to be a clear message. It would be like showing the Inquisitor stabbing Tevinter on the map and then deciding to set the next game in Fereldan again. They were surely trying to hint about what's to come. It's possible things might have changed in the interim, what with Weekes taking the reins and the game already undergoing one supposedly extensive overhaul. The sad thing is that we've been having this argument for five years now and we're still no closer to an answer. Weekes was already in charge of the writing team during Trespasser. David Gaider had moved on to what I think must have been Anthem by then. Trespasser was Patrick Weekes and John Epler's shared creation, and as Patrick Weekes is officially the lead writer for Dragon Age and John Epler is the Narrative Director, I think they will have tried to stick as close to what they envisioned while working on Trespasser as they possibly could given the reboot from Joplin to Morrison and any other internal things we might not yet know about.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jun 28, 2020 16:36:57 GMT
The problem with Solas doing anything to the Inquisitor is that it only works for the people who want to kill Solas. Remember that there are players who want to redeem Solas, too, and that choice was significant enough to be included in the Tapestry in Dragon Age Keep.
I am very curious to see how Solas' story will turn out. It's interesting to me to read posts by very vocal anti-Solas people who are rooting for BioWare to give every player more and more reasons to hate and want to kill Solas. What if BioWare does not do that? What if over the course of DA4 we find out more and more about Thedosian history and Solas' plans and it becomes harder and harder to justify killing him without becoming a villain yourself?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 28, 2020 16:46:50 GMT
It would explain why the Inquisitor is not running around defeating Solas themselves but still let them play a role in the story. And getting my Inquisitors un-stoned would certainly give me an extra motivation to solve the plot. There you go, a more original idea than my one of simply killing them off. In fact that might assuage Solas' conscience if he hadn't actually killed them but merely put them out of action until his plan came to fruition. For all we know, it might allow them to survive dropping the Veil. I suppose it would depend on exactly how fiery the chaos was. Joking apart, I don't think we should rule out some plot device that prevents the Inquisitor from actively participating, now we know the writers have acknowledged the lack of an arm wouldn't do this. Now, why would he kill them off? I explained it could be one of two scenarios: The first was that it wasn't Solas at all but some other party. However, it suits them to let Solas take the blame. So both as a player and role playing our character we will not know the truth. However, former players might doubt his involvement and someone like Charter could insist they don't think he was responsible, so there will be that element of doubt. The second was that Solas was directly responsible and it would be connected with the red lyrium idol. I'm pretty sure he doesn't yet have this and was fishing for information, with the no so veiled threat of what he will do to anyone who gets in his way. So if the Inquisitor was the one person who stood between him and getting the idol, I think that would be enough for him to kill them, or petrify them as suggested by Andraste Reborn. It would even have to be right at the beginning. The new PC could have tracked down the idol and delivered it, only for Solas to appear and take it by force. What I feel would be rather lame is for Solas to already have the idol. If it is going to be the focus of the game then we need some sort of context for our new PC or even the Inquisitor as to why it is so important to him. At the moment we don't even know exactly what it depicts.
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