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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 27, 2020 18:25:28 GMT
If that was their goal, then they failed.  Trespasser made me especially want the Inquisitor to be the pc in DA4.
Has anyone recently said it would always be a new pc for each game? Just wondering if that was the view of people working on DA4 or if it was maybe someone who is no longer at Bioware.
But if that's not enough - you could always tweet Patrick Weekes (who was also the Lead Writer on Trespasser). Assuming they’ll answer. None of the devs answer any questions about the game, including that. |
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2020 18:28:30 GMT
Assuming they’ll answer. None of the devs answer any questions about the game, including that. They may, they may not. But it is a question they've answered a number of times before. |
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Post by smudjygirl on Jun 27, 2020 18:29:51 GMT
No, but who wants to play as a grunt? I don't particularly want to be 'the pawn of the most important person" which is one thing that could turn into. And the Inquisitor in that scenario, in my opinion, is overshadowing the new PC. They'll be little more than a pawn in someone else's story.
I suppose. But i would argue that bringing the Inquisitor back in any intergral part, more than just one mission (again i wouldn't want a short cameo) is an admission that the Inquisitor's story isn't done, as they tried to say it was. Sure it could be interesting, but i believe we wouldn't get that. Especiallt to sacrifice them (Hawke 2.0) or betray them (and thus help Solas?). As interesting as it could be, i doubt it could be utilised in that way inkeeping with how Bioware usually goes about that. (Usually being one other time, so not exactly pattern)
I hope this discussion does end sooner, rather than later. Going around in cirlces isn't really doing anyone any favours.
When did they try to say that Inquisitor's story is done? I mean, definitely not with Trespasser has ended, with all its implications and where Inquisitor literally can tell us that they have to save the world... again. Also - I don't see why people wouldn't want to play 'a grunt'? It won't be the first RPG where we'd start as either one or someone who seems pretty insignificant, but it's not necessarily where they'd end. Also, HoF could be argued was the pawn in Flemeth's hands and the story being really about characters like Alistair or Morrigan, while Inky's fate is directly tied with Solas... DA is simply not the sort of franchise where there's One Important Character and even those that ARE important for either the chapter, or story overall, can be seen as elements in someone else's arc - in this regard, being a 'pawn in someone else's story' (if someone wishes to see it that way) wouldn't be anything new. As said above, Trespasser was supposed to tie off the Inquisitor's story. They Inquisitor can also say that their adventuring says are done. I agree with those who say messages were mixed in that dlc.
By grunt i mean someone who does all the work with little or no pay off. So if we gathered eveything the Inquisitor needed on Solas only for the Inquisitor to deal with Solas and us dealing with whatever was left over. Also i don't think that's the same thing. Flemeth's meddling is very meta, the Warden is never ordered to do something for her. Whatever benefits she got from the Warden were passive and may not have even happened. Thus in this situation, being a grunt isn't sounding very fun.
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Post by ClarkKent on Jun 27, 2020 18:30:16 GMT
Yeah, I don't really want the Inquisitor to come back that much, but I really don't see a way of interpreting the events of Trespasser as conclusively wrapping up the protagonist's story.
Wrapping up his official status as 'Inquisitor' maybe.
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Post by Frost on Jun 27, 2020 18:32:42 GMT
But if that's not enough - you could always tweet Patrick Weekes (who was also the Lead Writer on Trespasser). LOL! Would there be any chance that Patrick Weekes would be able/allowed to answer that question? I would love to know the answer, but it seems like a pretty big thing that they might not be able to talk about yet for DA4.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 27, 2020 18:38:47 GMT
The game also has Solas constantly surprised by the Inquisitor, to the point in Trespasser he can’t risk telling us anything. It's more the meta. I don't know why BW would've made that exchange be the very last thing we see in DAI if they didn't intend for it to be a clear message. It would be like showing the Inquisitor stabbing Tevinter on the map and then deciding to set the next game in Fereldan again. They were surely trying to hint about what's to come. It's possible things might have changed in the interim, what with Weekes taking the reins and the game already undergoing one supposedly extensive overhaul. The sad thing is that we've been having this argument for five years now and we're still no closer to an answer. But the fact that Inquisitor (in the very last scene establishing that they are still active players in the story) stabs the map with dagger, implicating that THEY and their new Inquisition are heading to Tevinter - and we, the audience, are heading there as well - is *exactly* the meta suggesting we're going to see them in DA4, likely in an significant role. I don't see how this could be read as the opposite? Like... why would it be like 'deciding to set the next game in Ferelden' when the reason we're going to Tevinter is because Inquisitor and their forces are heading there?
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2020 18:40:39 GMT
But if that's not enough - you could always tweet Patrick Weekes (who was also the Lead Writer on Trespasser). LOL! Would there be any chance that Patrick Weekes would be able/allowed to answer that question? I would love to know the answer, but it seems like a pretty big thing that they might not be able to talk about yet for DA4. Just be polite and the worst that could happen is he... just doesn't answer.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 27, 2020 18:41:22 GMT
Assuming they’ll answer. None of the devs answer any questions about the game, including that. They may, they may not. But it is a question they've answered a number of times before. But their stance towards Inquisitor and them showing up in the game is very different compared to, say, HoF. Never did we see them rule out Inquisitor showing up in the future. Inquisition as an organization is also far more tied to their leader than Wardens ever were to HoF, and we know from auxiliary materials that Inquisition is still active in stories that serve as a bridge and set-up for DA4.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 27, 2020 18:44:52 GMT
Yeah, I don't really want the Inquisitor to come back that much, but I really don't see a way of interpreting the events of Trespasser as conclusively wrapping up the protagonist's story. Wrapping up his official status as 'Inquisitor' maybe. Yea, we're definitely leaving the role we've had in DAI behind, but not necessarily the character - regardless how they are potentially going to be utilized in the future. 
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 27, 2020 18:46:05 GMT
Yeah, I don't really want the Inquisitor to come back that much, but I really don't see a way of interpreting the events of Trespasser as conclusively wrapping up the protagonist's story. Wrapping up his official status as 'Inquisitor' maybe. Did it even do that, since the Inquisition still exists and they are still leading it thus are still Inquisitor. |
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2020 18:48:13 GMT
For the record, I don't doubt the Inquisitor will have some role to play in DA4 (the solasmancers will want closure at the very least...  ), just not as the protagonist. |
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Post by xMissWoox on Jun 27, 2020 18:52:30 GMT
It's more the meta. I don't know why BW would've made that exchange be the very last thing we see in DAI if they didn't intend for it to be a clear message. It would be like showing the Inquisitor stabbing Tevinter on the map and then deciding to set the next game in Fereldan again. They were surely trying to hint about what's to come. It's possible things might have changed in the interim, what with Weekes taking the reins and the game already undergoing one supposedly extensive overhaul. The sad thing is that we've been having this argument for five years now and we're still no closer to an answer. But the fact that Inquisitor (in the very last scene establishing that they are still active players in the story) stabs the map with dagger, implicating that THEY and their new Inquisition are heading to Tevinter - and we, the audience, are heading there as well - is *exactly* the meta suggesting we're going to see them in DA4, likely in an significant role. I don't see how this could be read as the opposite? Like... why would it be like 'deciding to set the next game in Ferelden' when the reason we're going to Tevinter is because Inquisitor and their forces are heading there? Stabbing Tevinter on the Map = Tevinter will be important in DA4. Finding people Solas doesn't know = Newcomers will be important in DA4. Thus, the ending implies to me that our next game will be set in Tevinter with a new protagonist. I never disputed that the Inquisitor will be an important player in DA4, but I don't believe they will be the sole protagonist.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 27, 2020 18:56:13 GMT
For the record, I don't doubt the Inquisitor will have some role to play in DA4 (the solasmancers will want closure at the very least...  ), just not as the protagonist. If they aren't the protagonist, I don't want Inquisitor in the game at all. I don't want them ruined as a NPC like Hawke and Revan were.
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Post by ClarkKent on Jun 27, 2020 18:59:17 GMT
Funny how a Bioware developer just offhandedly tweeting "New protagonist, new game" would be literally the biggest bit of news we've heard about the game.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 27, 2020 19:00:45 GMT
When did they try to say that Inquisitor's story is done? I mean, definitely not with Trespasser has ended, with all its implications and where Inquisitor literally can tell us that they have to save the world... again. Also - I don't see why people wouldn't want to play 'a grunt'? It won't be the first RPG where we'd start as either one or someone who seems pretty insignificant, but it's not necessarily where they'd end. Also, HoF could be argued was the pawn in Flemeth's hands and the story being really about characters like Alistair or Morrigan, while Inky's fate is directly tied with Solas... DA is simply not the sort of franchise where there's One Important Character and even those that ARE important for either the chapter, or story overall, can be seen as elements in someone else's arc - in this regard, being a 'pawn in someone else's story' (if someone wishes to see it that way) wouldn't be anything new. As said above, Trespasser was supposed to tie off the Inquisitor's story. They Inquisitor can also say that their adventuring says are done. I agree with those who say messages were mixed in that dlc. The way I see it (and not just me) it has only tied them off in a sense that they are relieved from their previous duty (no longer a leading figure, Anchor taken away) and appear to be fully committed to pursuing Solas. I mean, aside form the fact that Flemeth establishes that her very survival hinges on Warden's success I don't see how you can tell that the only benefits she got from Warden were 'passive'? Anyway, the dual-protag route isn't condemning the new PC to the role of someone who does all the job and sees nothing in return - like, at all. That will depend how their role is constructed, but I'm quite unsure why the insistence that this is the ONLY scenario we could be condemned to, if we do get to play a role in our past protag's story? I always bring TES: Oblivion when I want to illustrate my point - the pivotal character there is Martin Septim. But he wouldn't meet his destiny if it wasn't for our PCs. Martin may have been the pivotal character, but PC was the Prime Mover of the story. And not only they become the legendary Champions, they even get an option to become a god-like being in the end. So really, it depends what role BW has envisioned for our new PC - be it in DA4 or later. I mean, what if playing the grunt IS the point? You know, with the theme being that even a small person can still have a profound impact on the story, or they are indeed caught in a war between two (or more) bigger entities, yet the Final Decisions will be theirs, be it because of circumstances or their tenacity or whatever? This could happen even if they cut Inquisitor entirely out of the story and we play a completely unrelated PC.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 27, 2020 19:03:38 GMT
But the fact that Inquisitor (in the very last scene establishing that they are still active players in the story) stabs the map with dagger, implicating that THEY and their new Inquisition are heading to Tevinter - and we, the audience, are heading there as well - is *exactly* the meta suggesting we're going to see them in DA4, likely in an significant role. I don't see how this could be read as the opposite? Like... why would it be like 'deciding to set the next game in Ferelden' when the reason we're going to Tevinter is because Inquisitor and their forces are heading there? Stabbing Tevinter on the Map = Tevinter will be important in DA4. Finding people Solas doesn't know = Newcomers will be important in DA4. Thus, the ending implies to me that our next game will be set in Tevinter with a new protagonist. I never disputed that the Inquisitor will be an important player in DA4, but I don't believe they will be the sole protagonist. Who is looking for those newcomers though? I myself an obviously on dual-protag camp, but I think the story so far is constructed in a way that they can make Inquisitor a new protag, if they wanted to. The narrative doors to such scenario have not been shut.
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Post by ellanathehamster on Jun 27, 2020 19:12:26 GMT
Inquisitor as the only protagonist is almost unreal, I get it. And I wouldn't want it either, 'cause then I'd miss out on building completely new journey about saving the Thedas  But you have to admit, they did a poor job with tying off Inquisitor story. If they did aim at that, why leave the possibility of keeping Inquisition? Why have this scene at the end, where we pledge ourselves to stop/saving Solas? Why give Inquisitor an important role both in post-game comics and Tevinter Nights? If we look at Hawke cameo in DAI- I totally agree it wasn't crucial. Hawke could have been cut from the game and it wouldn't make a difference. And it's fine, really. Their story was finished after DA2. Not the case with Inquisitor, IMO. That's why it would suck if they won't play a role in the upcoming game. And it will also suck if they will be reduced to an NPC, where we can't influence their actions. That's why dual-protagonist is something I, personally, really ope for. It doesn't need to be split 50-50. Even if we play as Inquisitor for certain missions or DLC- that would be grand. Let me customize and rule my own hero. I don't want to be a passive observer. About concerns that Inq would overshadow a new protagonist- yes, that's fair. I wouldn't want to play a support role for the whole game, doing dirty work, only to have Inquisitor show up before the main fight and push me aside. A way out, maybe, if we are given option to pick a hero for the main fight at the end, someone who will ultimately decide how the game ends. so it will either be from new protag POV or Inq's (a good chance to increase re-playability, too). Also, the idea of those two having their own mind and agenda (to have Inq/new PC turn on you based on their previous decision) is very attractive to me. anyways, it's always fun to speculate. My opinion on this matter was fueled with a tweet, liked by Chris Anderson Liz • is 3 Trash Gnomes in a Trench Coat @lizagnanoodles [/b] Spicy hot take: I want to play my inquisitor(s) in DA:4 but I want it to be like DA:Awakening where you could have the choice of an "import" or making a fresh oc.
I just feel like my story with my babies is unfinished. |
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 27, 2020 19:12:57 GMT
Funny how a Bioware developer just offhandedly tweeting "New protagonist, new game" would be literally the biggest bit of news we've heard about the game. Probably too big for this moment in time  I mean, at best it would clarify that Inky is not PC or a primary PC, but it would hardly clarify whether we'd see them or what could be their role in potential story. Perhaps it could even give a wrong impression? As I've mentioned above, so far they have been very coy about Inky's potential involvement in the future story (unlike HoF), neither confirming nor denying much, or too vague for us to be certain of much anything - and some people could read 'new protagonist, new game' as completely walking away from this character and storylines they are tied to?
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Post by xMissWoox on Jun 27, 2020 19:20:02 GMT
Stabbing Tevinter on the Map = Tevinter will be important in DA4. Finding people Solas doesn't know = Newcomers will be important in DA4. Thus, the ending implies to me that our next game will be set in Tevinter with a new protagonist. I never disputed that the Inquisitor will be an important player in DA4, but I don't believe they will be the sole protagonist. Who is looking for those newcomers though? I myself an obviously on dual-protag camp, but I think the story so far is constructed in a way that they can make Inquisitor a new protag, if they wanted to. The narrative doors to such scenario have not been shut. As I said earlier, things may have changed in the years between Trespasser and DA4's release, but with no further news on the matter I can only go on what Trespasser impressed on me, and that is that we will be given a new protagonist who is mostly active within Tevinter. That doesn't mean we won't see established places or people again, just that they won't be the main focus. Personally, I'd be happy with dual protagonists. I want some proper closure for my Inquisitor and Solas, and I want some agency in that. I'd even be happy to see Hawke or the Warden again. But I'm not going to ignore what I perceive to be pretty clear signs just because they don't necessarily point in the direction I want to go. Until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume that the Inquisitor as the sole protagonist won't be happening.
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Post by smudjygirl on Jun 27, 2020 19:37:13 GMT
As said above, Trespasser was supposed to tie off the Inquisitor's story. They Inquisitor can also say that their adventuring says are done. I agree with those who say messages were mixed in that dlc. The way I see it (and not just me) it has only tied them off in a sense that they are relieved form their previous duty (no longer a leading figure, Anchor taken away) and appear to be fully committed to pursuing Solas. I mean, aside form the fact that Flemeth establishes that her very survival hinges on Warden's success I don't see how you can tell that the only benefits she got from Warden were 'passive'? Anyway, the dual-protag route isn't condemning the new PC to the role of someone who does all the job and sees nothing in return - like, at all. That will depend how their role is constructed, but I'm quite unsure why the insistence that this is the ONLY scenario we could be condemned to, if we do get to play a role in our past protag's story? I always bring TES: Oblivion when I want to illustrate my point - the pivotal character there is Martin Septim. But he wouldn't meet their destiny if it wasn't for our PCs. Martin may have been the pivotal character, but PC was the Prime Mover of the story. And not only they become the legendary champions, they even get an option to become a god-like being in the end. So really, it depends what role BW has envisioned for our new PC - be it in DA4 or later. I mean, what if playing the grunt IS the point? You know, with the theme being that even a small person can still have a profound impact on the story, or they are indeed caught in a war between two (or more) bigger entities, yet the Final Decisions will be theirs, be it of reason of circumstances or their tenacity or whatever? This could happen even if they cut Inquisitor entirely out of the story and we play a completely unrelated PC. I agree, that's how i see it too. Unfortunately it doesn't matter how we interpreted it if they decided it had the desired effect. That was their goal and they seem to think they met it, no matter how many of us disagree.
Passive as in "she didn't directly force them to do anything." You could claim everyone is Flemeth's pawn.
I didn't say it couldn't work, i said i can't imagine a scenario in which it would work well. Aren't the PC supposed to be "the most important person in the world at the time"? There are plenty of games that do that well, but i'd say few if none use a previous PC. I always feel the the PC is somewhat overshadowed when they are the neck that holds up the proverbial head. That's fine when it's supposed to be that way, but i don't think DA is that kind of game.
Wasn't that the story of Hawke? A little person who had a big impact? And there's the point, if the Inquisitor can be cut out i think they should and if they absolutely must be a part of it, then their story wasn't done so why not have them be PC?
Like i said, i would buy it either way, but if there are dual PC i would wait for reviews before i play.
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Post by Kaibe on Jun 27, 2020 21:54:15 GMT
While it's possible for plans to change, remember that Trespasser was supposed to "Conclusively tie off this protagonist". And every time it's been brought up, BW has has said they wanted to go with a new protag with each new game. I've never seen them insinuate otherwise.  Is this part of the storyboard for Trespasser? |
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 27, 2020 22:01:14 GMT
Is this part of the storyboard for Trespasser? This was a slide from a talk Patrick and John gave on Trespasser at GDC. |
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 27, 2020 22:10:09 GMT
I want a new protagonist who is outside of inquisition.
If there’s going to be any duality i’d Want very limited inquisitor, segments akin to Ciri in TW3.
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Post by NotN7 on Jun 28, 2020 3:06:59 GMT
I want a new protagonist who is outside of inquisition. If there’s going to be any duality i’d Want very limited inquisitor, segments akin to Ciri in TW3. agree I see the quizy in some cut scenes and as a playable like Ciri but not as a PC its up to a new PC heck we don't even know if Solas will be part of DA4 it could be nothing more than a war heck they are always fighting if you follow the lore
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Post by colfoley on Jun 28, 2020 4:11:21 GMT
So the way I see it the Inquisitor or a new protagonist both has their appeal and things that could be risky.
Pros for Inquisitor being the protagonist: Continuing the fight against Solas and getting resolution for those who desire it, experiencing a previous characterand getting another chance to play them, (this is rather big for some people), having them be there at the end to more or less finish what they started by defeating a big bad they have a personal connection to,
Cons against the Inquisitor being the protagonist: Might be hard to consider last game's romances and creating new ones, the Inquisitor could be married for instance, People might not actively care about Solas, People might not actively care about the Inquisitor (and even having either in the game would be a deterement), any newcomers to the franchise might feel a bit more lost with the baggage of stepping into the shoes of an established character, from a story perspective Solas knows the Inquisitor which is highlighted in Tresspasser as a big reason to *not* have them. And frankly there are those who probably don't really want their Inquisitor to get involved. We'd be just fine having them be semi retired after already having faced off against one would be God, two would be too much.
Pros for a new Protagonist: Basically flip everything from the anti Inquisitor, might give a new perspective on this fight against Solas/ a different philsophical angle (for instance as has been mentioned the Inquisitior was a larger then life 'chosen one' character, our next one could be a rags to riches, a grunt,or a common soldier...with the thematic lessons that implies.) A different perspective on the larger conflict between the two, a chance to explore a different background (like make them from Tevinter)
Cons: while some people may headcanon their larger indifference to Solas him and the Inquisitor still have a starting relationship that, while not impossible to match could be difficult.
Now as for me I am rather ambivalent about the whole thing. I have heard great arguments for the Inquisitor to be included in the game and I have heard great reasons for a new protagonist. While I lean personally to wanting a new one I also don't think I'd mind stepping into Kara's boots again. Either way I will likely be jumping for joy.
However, what I do think is that a dual protag situation will be an utter disaster. Yes, Witcher 3 pulled it off...but both Ciri and Geralt had one model and one voice each...they didn't have to consider a wide variety of different character models, voices, and other species.
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Trespasser made me especially want the Inquisitor to be the pc in DA4. 
), just not as the protagonist. 
), just not as the protagonist. 
I mean, at best it would clarify that Inky is not PC or a primary PC, but it would hardly clarify whether we'd see them or what could be their role in potential story. 
