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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 13, 2020 20:00:31 GMT
Gail Simone @gailsimoneI have an interesting thing to say. Three times recently, I have been asked to work on IP with extensive lore and backstory that I needed to brush up on. When I asked if they had bibles or development documents...I was told the same thing all three times... I was told in each case that no suck official documents exist, and that they ‘just use the fan wikis online.’ Not because they are lazy or for cost-cutting measures, but because the fans ‘keep better track of this stuff, anyway.’ Now, I am not talking about some niche comic book property, I am talking about massively successful film, game and tv properties. Some of the biggest shows and franchises you follow have zero in-house continuity documents. They do everything off of fan wikis. ... For some weird reason, people keep misreading this and think I am talking about comics. I am not, comics source material is far easier to get in comics and out of six hundred comics I’ve written, I have never been sent to a fan page for resources. Patrick Weekes @patrickweekesWe DO have internal wikis at work, but we sometimes look at the external ones as well. The internal ones often have outdated stuff that we ended up not using. The external ones are the most reliable way to check what we actually shipped. seb hanlon @hanlspAnd then there’s @bengelinas, the Keeper of Time and Memory this is disturbing a bit. Honestly I'd think they could reference the WoT. Eh, keeping any kind of internal product spec up to date is basically impossible. Plus, it might have lots of details about features (or, for video games, plot points) users don’t care about at all, and be light on details for stuff users care about a lot. On any given moderate- to large-sized software team, maybe the QA team has some idea of what the full product spec is. Maybe. The engineers definitely don’t, because our job requires us to do more focused dives on specific features. Ditto for product and design teams and, I assume, writer teams. If the team size is bigger than ~10 people, the project is getting large enough that people have to specialize. And as soon as you specialize, you start to forget which stuff you know that other teams don’t know, which means it doesn’t get written down. If I worked on the kinds of apps that had fan wikis, you bet your ass I’d be trusting those over internal wikis. They just cover more of what users find to be important.
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 13, 2020 20:04:40 GMT
Yeah, that doesn't bother me at all. Fans can be obsessive - myself included - and it's easy to forget details in the lore when you're not, um. equally obsessive and constantly thinking about it for the past 11 years.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 13, 2020 20:12:48 GMT
this is disturbing a bit. Honestly I'd think they could reference the WoT. I don't really find it that disturbing, I think it's actually pretty cool (was meant to paste those Gail Simone tweets, but AS USUAL, Hrungr was faster ). Also, WOT nnot only DON'T encompass all they've shipped (especially given the framing of the whole thing as an in-universe document and not a source of ALL objective meta-knowledge, like wikis usually are) is simply not the same format as wiki. I don't know what is the structure of their internal wikis, but I find the format and cataloging of wikipedia/wikias helpful. I myself am at the cusp of thinking about a wiki for a big personal project and I wish wikia had a private option, because I'm so used to this format and browsing information in it. Also, maybe I don't find it that disturbing, because I've heard years ago about similar stuff being done of a book series - namely ASOIAF. And I heard about it, in person, from George R.R. Martin himself. He's said that he's extremely appreciative of people who run westeros.org, also because their knowledge of the universe helps him with stuff like consistency of details in his book. It's just faster his way rather than going back to own notes. I know mine are a mess, despite me trying to keep some semblance of order and trying to keep things updated, which is a work in itself. I really should have added my qualifying statement that I get it and the reasons for it. . Just an...odd thought that fans might know more about the universe then the creator. On the Martin comments I can certainly get that given I worry about my internal consistency.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 13, 2020 20:49:56 GMT
I really should have added my qualifying statement that I get it and the reasons for it. . Just an...odd thought that fans might know more about the universe then the creator.
What is slightly disturbing is where the Wiki gets it wrong because the person inputting has put their own interpretation on something. So if the writers don't cross reference it, they perpetuate the error. Also, sometimes there are conflicting versions of someone's back story in the same publication, WoT2, so which one does the person choose to put on the Wiki?
To give an example, the timeline in Dorian's personal story doesn't match with Alexius personal story, nor does it match with the version he give us in game or the codex about Alexius.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 13, 2020 20:53:22 GMT
I really should have added my qualifying statement that I get it and the reasons for it. . Just an...odd thought that fans might know more about the universe then the creator. What is slightly disturbing is where the Wiki gets it wrong because the person inputting has put their own interpretation on something. So if the writers don't cross reference it, they perpetuate the error. Also, sometimes there are conflicting versions of someone's back story in the same publication, WoT2, so which one does the person choose to put on the Wiki? in the latter case since, again in universe could lead to vagaries and conflicting information, you publish both.
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dragonkingreborn
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
DragonKingReborn
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Post by BearKingReborn on Sept 13, 2020 21:15:21 GMT
John Epler @eplerjcHey! So Solas grabbing your hand and taking the mark was mocapped. Everything else, I did by hand using our emotion system and animations from our library.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Sept 13, 2020 21:35:51 GMT
Patrick Weekes retweeted this. This thread is one of the reasons I'm really grateful for the BioWare folks who are present on social media. You rock! It also seems pertinent because of the recent behind-the-scenes dev diary and the discussions, disappointments, and excitement it engendered here on the BSN. Jesse Heinig @jesseheinigWhy the Internet and Social Media is a Minefield for Game Devs: A Thread. 1/ Fans of @trekonlinegame may recall @vengeancegod 's oft-repeated refrain of "we don't talk about upcoming content!" This is for several reasons, typically learned through hard experience. 2/ First, when you announce an upcoming feature, there's always the possibility of something beyond your control happening and delaying or cancelling it. The further away the release date, the bigger the chance that something could change. 3/ But when you say "We want to do X" or "We are thinking about introducing Y" there's a chunk of your player base that treats that as an ironclad declaration. If you change or cancel something, you're immediately inundated with cries like "The devs are liars!" 4/ Or "You promised us! You break your promises!" or "Hah of course it was changed/cancelled, the devs are all incompetent and lazy." Ergo, best not to say anything. 5/ Second, some folks out there are bad actors who will take whatever you say and try to make controversy out of it. For those people, there is nothing you can say that is good - they will always find a way to imply (or state) that you're stupid, or lazy, or racist, or greedy. 6/ Third, much of your audience doesn't actually know the craft of game design. What players think that they want from a game is not always in sync with what actually makes a good game. It's like asking a thousand people to design a car or a microwave by committee. 7/ (This isn't to say that you shouldn't pay attention to feedback from game players, but 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘺𝘪𝘯𝘨 a game is distinctly different from 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 one.) 8/ Fourth, it's super-easy for a developer's comments to be taken out of context, with disastrous consequences. For example, one of the D&D designers recently tweeted that sure, it's fine to fire a 𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘣𝘰𝘭𝘵 off-grid to hit enemies on either side of a line. 9/ Super-casual comment - but players frequently look to developers as authorities, and their comments as being binding. Some players don't - they just play games the way they want and use what works for them, which is great. But not everyone does this... 10/ ... and so one off-hand comment becomes a potential precedent: Your power that is supposed to affect 20 squares (100' x 5', each square 5x5) now might affect 42 (offsetting from the grid to hit two columns, and a little wiggle on both ends). 11/ Suddenly any power that hits an area and can be offset from a grid is way more powerful. You can hit more enemies, stacking up more damage. And it can do the same to players - more party members can be hit at once, but your healing magic didn't suddenly get stronger. 12/ What was a casual "Sure, you can do this for fun" gets taken by logocentrists as a ruling that winds up undermining the 𝘴𝘺𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘮 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘨𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘺 of the game. D&D and other games are built with at least an eyeball toward the numbers - 13/ How much damage and healing you can do, to how many people, over how much time. One offhand comment winds up making those numbers... unreliable. So the baseline, the rules of the game, are now no longer dependable. How do I balance combat when the damage output is off? Oops! 14/ (You may think "Pff nobody would actually make an issue out of that," but lemme tell ya - I've been to organized play games where a player actually brought a binder with printed-out copies of developer comments and referenced them as rules.) 15/ One tweet, one comment, one post can inadvertently throw your game's players into a whirlwind. Worse still, you might make a post that seems like a simple offhand comment, but context-free gets used in a completely different way. 16/ It's perilous for game devs of all kinds to comment on their content. Yet players demand it - there's a constant call for "communication" and "transparency." But the more you communicate with the player base, the greater the chances of a misstep that will cause grief. 17/ Thus... many designers eschew public commentary at all. And that's why so many companies use scheduled interviews and press releases, so that the message can be managed. Also why the community manager is a vital asset whose workload can't be underestimated. 18/ So, uh, if I didn't reply to your question or comment, that may be why. ~Fin~
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Dreadnaw Rising
12,573
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Sept 13, 2020 23:50:57 GMT
I guess I just don't know why they wouldn't take the fan wiki, their internal thing, then think about, then ask their group if that all made sense to them or even find a Let's Play recording online to confirm before building an entire story around it
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
Posts: 7,095 Likes: 16,598
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Post by midnight tea on Sept 14, 2020 0:07:34 GMT
I guess I just don't know why they wouldn't take the fan wiki, their internal thing, then think about, then ask their group if that all made sense to them or even find a Let's Play recording online to confirm before building an entire story around it ...Why assume that they don't do just that, or do a variety of things? Nowhere PW said that they use fan wikia exclusively, but that they use it sometimes to check on stuff. Also, this isn't just about Let's Play of one game - they have to factor in what they have published in other materials as well and wiki will (optimally) have all available and published information and sources listed for whatever they'd like to check on.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 14, 2020 0:22:46 GMT
I guess I just don't know why they wouldn't take the fan wiki, their internal thing, then think about, then ask their group if that all made sense to them or even find a Let's Play recording online to confirm before building an entire story around it I would assume they do have a process somewhat like that, it’s just that the wiki is the first step. When I’m trying to remember bits of lore, I usually hit the wiki first but use videos to confirm what it says. However, the wiki gives me quotes to try as search terms, and ideas about related scenes/characters/concepts I might not have remembered on my own. I imagine the devs have other tools at their disposal, like searching archived subtitles or codex text, to confirm exact facts. I’m not talking wikis here, I’m talking raw assets. Since that kind of data would be much less structured/cross-referenced than an external or internal wiki, it’s probably helpful to get prompted with possible connections between different assets. And an external wiki will typically be larger, so it can provide more of those possible connections — which could then be confirmed by more accurate methods. I picture it as similar to the role StackOverflow serves in my field. A lot of the actual code snippets are kind of bad, but they can help prompt me for places to look in the official documentation. The official documentation doesn’t have as many keywords, examples, and discussion sprinkled through it, so it’s harder to search it directly. The flawed source of truth (StackOverflow) helps me navigate the more accurate source of truth (the documentation).
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6,058
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 14, 2020 12:08:55 GMT
Patrick Weekes retweeted this. This thread is one of the reasons I'm really grateful for the BioWare folks who are present on social media. You rock! It also seems pertinent because of the recent behind-the-scenes dev diary and the discussions, disappointments, and excitement it engendered here on the BSN. Jesse Heinig @jesseheinigWhy the Internet and Social Media is a Minefield for Game Devs: A Thread. 1/ Fans of @trekonlinegame may recall @vengeancegod 's oft-repeated refrain of "we don't talk about upcoming content!" This is for several reasons, typically learned through hard experience. 2/ First, when you announce an upcoming feature, there's always the possibility of something beyond your control happening and delaying or cancelling it. The further away the release date, the bigger the chance that something could change. 3/ But when you say "We want to do X" or "We are thinking about introducing Y" there's a chunk of your player base that treats that as an ironclad declaration. If you change or cancel something, you're immediately inundated with cries like "The devs are liars!" 4/ Or "You promised us! You break your promises!" or "Hah of course it was changed/cancelled, the devs are all incompetent and lazy." Ergo, best not to say anything. 5/ Second, some folks out there are bad actors who will take whatever you say and try to make controversy out of it. For those people, there is nothing you can say that is good - they will always find a way to imply (or state) that you're stupid, or lazy, or racist, or greedy. 6/ Third, much of your audience doesn't actually know the craft of game design. What players think that they want from a game is not always in sync with what actually makes a good game. It's like asking a thousand people to design a car or a microwave by committee. 7/ (This isn't to say that you shouldn't pay attention to feedback from game players, but 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘺𝘪𝘯𝘨 a game is distinctly different from 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 one.) 8/ Fourth, it's super-easy for a developer's comments to be taken out of context, with disastrous consequences. For example, one of the D&D designers recently tweeted that sure, it's fine to fire a 𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘣𝘰𝘭𝘵 off-grid to hit enemies on either side of a line. 9/ Super-casual comment - but players frequently look to developers as authorities, and their comments as being binding. Some players don't - they just play games the way they want and use what works for them, which is great. But not everyone does this... 10/ ... and so one off-hand comment becomes a potential precedent: Your power that is supposed to affect 20 squares (100' x 5', each square 5x5) now might affect 42 (offsetting from the grid to hit two columns, and a little wiggle on both ends). 11/ Suddenly any power that hits an area and can be offset from a grid is way more powerful. You can hit more enemies, stacking up more damage. And it can do the same to players - more party members can be hit at once, but your healing magic didn't suddenly get stronger. 12/ What was a casual "Sure, you can do this for fun" gets taken by logocentrists as a ruling that winds up undermining the 𝘴𝘺𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘮 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘨𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘺 of the game. D&D and other games are built with at least an eyeball toward the numbers - 13/ How much damage and healing you can do, to how many people, over how much time. One offhand comment winds up making those numbers... unreliable. So the baseline, the rules of the game, are now no longer dependable. How do I balance combat when the damage output is off? Oops! 14/ (You may think "Pff nobody would actually make an issue out of that," but lemme tell ya - I've been to organized play games where a player actually brought a binder with printed-out copies of developer comments and referenced them as rules.) 15/ One tweet, one comment, one post can inadvertently throw your game's players into a whirlwind. Worse still, you might make a post that seems like a simple offhand comment, but context-free gets used in a completely different way. 16/ It's perilous for game devs of all kinds to comment on their content. Yet players demand it - there's a constant call for "communication" and "transparency." But the more you communicate with the player base, the greater the chances of a misstep that will cause grief. 17/ Thus... many designers eschew public commentary at all. And that's why so many companies use scheduled interviews and press releases, so that the message can be managed. Also why the community manager is a vital asset whose workload can't be underestimated. 18/ So, uh, if I didn't reply to your question or comment, that may be why. ~Fin~
Understood and thank you for explaining.
This "...Third, much of your audience doesn't actually know the craft of game design..." true. But, that's your fault for not explaining. A video interview of devs explaining their craft or how a game in development progresses through different stages is always helpful. Hell, we can sticky it in the BSN.
BUT, the marketing campaign always hints at features the game barely covers. Which, to my mind, neutralizes the reasons why the devs keep their mouth shut. The famous "your choices have consequences" comes to mind with the rainbow colour ending. Yes, Bio did introduce some NPC reaction to player choices but I found them to be mostly effete.
At the end of the day, I accept the game is what it is but won't pre-order and simply wait for others to bite the bullet and tell us about it. Then I will make up my mind to buy or not. Anthem being an example of a Not Buy.
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FireAndBlood
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Prime Posts: 454
Prime Likes: 350
Posts: 578 Likes: 1,626
inherit
52
0
May 15, 2024 20:02:55 GMT
1,626
FireAndBlood
578
August 2016
fireandblood
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by FireAndBlood on Sept 14, 2020 15:09:44 GMT
Patrick Weekes retweeted this. This thread is one of the reasons I'm really grateful for the BioWare folks who are present on social media. You rock! It also seems pertinent because of the recent behind-the-scenes dev diary and the discussions, disappointments, and excitement it engendered here on the BSN. Jesse Heinig @jesseheinigWhy the Internet and Social Media is a Minefield for Game Devs: A Thread. 1/ Fans of @trekonlinegame may recall @vengeancegod 's oft-repeated refrain of "we don't talk about upcoming content!" This is for several reasons, typically learned through hard experience. 2/ First, when you announce an upcoming feature, there's always the possibility of something beyond your control happening and delaying or cancelling it. The further away the release date, the bigger the chance that something could change. 3/ But when you say "We want to do X" or "We are thinking about introducing Y" there's a chunk of your player base that treats that as an ironclad declaration. If you change or cancel something, you're immediately inundated with cries like "The devs are liars!" 4/ Or "You promised us! You break your promises!" or "Hah of course it was changed/cancelled, the devs are all incompetent and lazy." Ergo, best not to say anything. 5/ Second, some folks out there are bad actors who will take whatever you say and try to make controversy out of it. For those people, there is nothing you can say that is good - they will always find a way to imply (or state) that you're stupid, or lazy, or racist, or greedy. 6/ Third, much of your audience doesn't actually know the craft of game design. What players think that they want from a game is not always in sync with what actually makes a good game. It's like asking a thousand people to design a car or a microwave by committee. 7/ (This isn't to say that you shouldn't pay attention to feedback from game players, but 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘺𝘪𝘯𝘨 a game is distinctly different from 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 one.) 8/ Fourth, it's super-easy for a developer's comments to be taken out of context, with disastrous consequences. For example, one of the D&D designers recently tweeted that sure, it's fine to fire a 𝘭𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘣𝘰𝘭𝘵 off-grid to hit enemies on either side of a line. 9/ Super-casual comment - but players frequently look to developers as authorities, and their comments as being binding. Some players don't - they just play games the way they want and use what works for them, which is great. But not everyone does this... 10/ ... and so one off-hand comment becomes a potential precedent: Your power that is supposed to affect 20 squares (100' x 5', each square 5x5) now might affect 42 (offsetting from the grid to hit two columns, and a little wiggle on both ends). 11/ Suddenly any power that hits an area and can be offset from a grid is way more powerful. You can hit more enemies, stacking up more damage. And it can do the same to players - more party members can be hit at once, but your healing magic didn't suddenly get stronger. 12/ What was a casual "Sure, you can do this for fun" gets taken by logocentrists as a ruling that winds up undermining the 𝘴𝘺𝘴𝘵𝘦𝘮 𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘨𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘺 of the game. D&D and other games are built with at least an eyeball toward the numbers - 13/ How much damage and healing you can do, to how many people, over how much time. One offhand comment winds up making those numbers... unreliable. So the baseline, the rules of the game, are now no longer dependable. How do I balance combat when the damage output is off? Oops! 14/ (You may think "Pff nobody would actually make an issue out of that," but lemme tell ya - I've been to organized play games where a player actually brought a binder with printed-out copies of developer comments and referenced them as rules.) 15/ One tweet, one comment, one post can inadvertently throw your game's players into a whirlwind. Worse still, you might make a post that seems like a simple offhand comment, but context-free gets used in a completely different way. 16/ It's perilous for game devs of all kinds to comment on their content. Yet players demand it - there's a constant call for "communication" and "transparency." But the more you communicate with the player base, the greater the chances of a misstep that will cause grief. 17/ Thus... many designers eschew public commentary at all. And that's why so many companies use scheduled interviews and press releases, so that the message can be managed. Also why the community manager is a vital asset whose workload can't be underestimated. 18/ So, uh, if I didn't reply to your question or comment, that may be why. ~Fin~
Understood and thank you for explaining.
This "...Third, much of your audience doesn't actually know the craft of game design..." true. But, that's your fault for not explaining. A video interview of devs explaining their craft or how a game in development progresses through different stages is always helpful. Hell, we can sticky it in the BSN.
BUT, the marketing campaign always hints at features the game barely covers. Which, to my mind, neutralizes the reasons why the devs keep their mouth shut. The famous "your choices have consequences" comes to mind with the rainbow colour ending. Yes, Bio did introduce some NPC reaction to player choices but I found them to be mostly effete.
At the end of the day, I accept the game is what it is but won't pre-order and simply wait for others to bite the bullet and tell us about it. Then I will make up my mind to buy or not. Anthem being an example of a Not Buy.
Way to miss the point Sartoz.
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May 15, 2024 13:30:26 GMT
2,863
Sartoz
6,058
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 14, 2020 17:43:52 GMT
Understood and thank you for explaining.
This "...Third, much of your audience doesn't actually know the craft of game design..." true. But, that's your fault for not explaining. A video interview of devs explaining their craft or how a game in development progresses through different stages is always helpful. Hell, we can sticky it in the BSN.
BUT, the marketing campaign always hints at features the game barely covers. Which, to my mind, neutralizes the reasons why the devs keep their mouth shut. The famous "your choices have consequences" comes to mind with the rainbow colour ending. Yes, Bio did introduce some NPC reaction to player choices but I found them to be mostly effete.
At the end of the day, I accept the game is what it is but won't pre-order and simply wait for others to bite the bullet and tell us about it. Then I will make up my mind to buy or not. Anthem being an example of a Not Buy.
Way to miss the point Sartoz.
Lol,
The point as you understand, you mean? I'll leave it as difference of viewpoint.
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UutIVvdPw7END0Ef
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Sept 14, 2020 21:52:01 GMT
What about our choices in TLC?, will they be imported to the Keep with the ability to change them?
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Beerfish
N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,053 Likes: 35,911
inherit
Little Pumpkin
314
0
May 15, 2024 21:40:32 GMT
35,911
Beerfish
15,053
August 2016
beerfish
https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on Sept 14, 2020 22:31:51 GMT
Fan wikis should troll the heck out of these guys and retcon all sorts of stuff and claim it is original.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 15, 2020 0:01:13 GMT
UT, the marketing campaign always hints at features the game barely covers. Which, to my mind, neutralizes the reasons why the devs keep their mouth shut. The famous "your choices have consequences" comes to mind with the rainbow colour ending. Yes, Bio did introduce some NPC reaction to player choices but I found them to be mostly effete. Effete? Is that actually the word you intended? The Mass Effect example is interesting. As we all know, the ME3 ending actually did deliver consequences. Consequences which are so profound and world-changing that it's conceptually impossible to continue the series in the MW while including them. But when people talk about consequences, they mean something other than changes to the game-world. They mean changes to the parts of the game world we actually play through, as we play through them. Bio's historically been weak on the latter sense of consequences, and with good reason. Nobody cared that going LS or DS on a KotOR planet didn't change anything because you're done with the planet by that point. Choices in DA:O only change which sprites show up on your side in the last battle. And so forth. It's not really clear how this suddenly became a problem with ME3.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Sept 15, 2020 0:04:07 GMT
Fan wikis should troll the heck out of these guys and retcon all sorts of stuff and claim it is original. Fandom: "The Warden is alive by Lyrium magic" BW:
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Solas
N5
blep mlem mlem
ratlobster banger
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Post by Solas on Sept 15, 2020 3:17:16 GMT
Fan wikis should troll the heck out of these guys and retcon all sorts of stuff and claim it is original. "Thedas has three moons".
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Post by colfoley on Sept 15, 2020 3:20:14 GMT
Fan wikis should troll the heck out of these guys and retcon all sorts of stuff and claim it is original. "Thedas has three moons". "One of which is made out of cheese and the other made of parsnips."
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Post by smilesja on Sept 15, 2020 3:40:01 GMT
I guess I just don't know why they wouldn't take the fan wiki, their internal thing, then think about, then ask their group if that all made sense to them or even find a Let's Play recording online to confirm before building an entire story around it Maybe because they're just as toxic as the subreddit.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Sept 15, 2020 3:42:30 GMT
"Thedas has three moons". "One of which is made out of cheese and the other made of parsnips." What's the third one made of?
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Post by arvaarad on Sept 15, 2020 3:45:27 GMT
"One of which is made out of cheese and the other made of parsnips." What's the third one made of? Tevinter Allies.
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Post by colfoley on Sept 15, 2020 3:52:37 GMT
"One of which is made out of cheese and the other made of parsnips." What's the third one made of? the third is a giant dragon egg.
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Little Bengel
N3
Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Sept 15, 2020 12:19:06 GMT
"Thedas has three moons". " One of which is made out of cheese and the other made of parsnips." Goddamn. First Destiny, now Dragon Age.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Sept 15, 2020 13:56:10 GMT
UT, the marketing campaign always hints at features the game barely covers. Which, to my mind, neutralizes the reasons why the devs keep their mouth shut. The famous "your choices have consequences" comes to mind with the rainbow colour ending. Yes, Bio did introduce some NPC reaction to player choices but I found them to be mostly effete. Effete? Is that actually the word you intended? The Mass Effect example is interesting. As we all know, the ME3 ending actually did deliver consequences. Consequences which are so profound and world-changing that it's conceptually impossible to continue the series in the MW while including them. But when people talk about consequences, they mean something other than changes to the game-world. They mean changes to the parts of the game world we actually play through, as we play through them. Bio's historically been weak on the latter sense of consequences, and with good reason. Nobody cared that going LS or DS on a KotOR planet didn't change anything because you're done with the planet by that point. Choices in DA:O only change which sprites show up on your side in the last battle. And so forth. It's not really clear how this suddenly became a problem with ME3.
Effete = weak.
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