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Post by apollexander on Feb 26, 2021 2:23:07 GMT
According to Jason, the next Dragon Age has become a single-player game, while the creative group with ~30 devs who worked on Anthem Next has been merged into Dragon Age team. It feels a bit weird to assign those multiplayer devs to the single-player project.
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Post by SomberXIII on Feb 26, 2021 2:39:45 GMT
Weird fact: people can move on for no reason other than that they want to. I do not know why so many BioWare fans think that whenever someone leaves, it's because they were fired or laid off. Yes, that DOES happen, but people also move on because of any number of much more boring and benign reasons. Like: they just want a change of scene; they want new challenges; they have a family member in another place who may not be doing well and they want to to be closer to them so they can help with end-of-life care; they have a partner who gets a dream job in another place and they choose to move to support their partner, etc. etc. I guess some gamers don't have the ability to move on like normal people would. So they'd react in that way when someone leaves and the circle repeats.
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Post by Kabraxal on Feb 26, 2021 3:23:09 GMT
According to Jason, the next Dragon Age has become a single-player game, while the creative group with ~30 devs who worked on Anthem Next has been merged into Dragon Age team. It feels a bit weird to assign those multiplayer devs to the single-player project. If they were primarily writing/coding normal things it isn’t too much of a change. If they were rebuilding netcode or an MP core system.... yeah, it would probably be weird.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 26, 2021 4:00:20 GMT
According to Jason, the next Dragon Age has become a single-player game, while the creative group with ~30 devs who worked on Anthem Next has been merged into Dragon Age team. It feels a bit weird to assign those multiplayer devs to the single-player project. If they were designers, artists, programmers, animators, etc. a lot of the same skills will still apply.
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Post by apollexander on Feb 26, 2021 4:00:52 GMT
According to Jason, the next Dragon Age has become a single-player game, while the creative group with ~30 devs who worked on Anthem Next has been merged into Dragon Age team. It feels a bit weird to assign those multiplayer devs to the single-player project. If they were primarily writing/coding normal things it isn’t too much of a change. If they were rebuilding netcode or an MP core system.... yeah, it would probably be weird. I think they were rebuilding the MP core system, according to what were shown by Dailey on the blog. And, oh, Dailey was also a multiplayer dev. Now it is more weird that Edmonton Studio led the multiplayer project Anthem, and Austin Studio boss is leading the singleplayer project Dragon Age.
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Post by telanadas on Feb 26, 2021 4:22:46 GMT
Is this foreshadowing a new reboot? If DA4 got rebooted in 2017 to be made into a live service game, now that it won't be will it have to be reworked from the ground up yet again? I know there's a general consensus the game hasn't gotten that far into development for this to affect its development, but the fact that they have been flip flopping on the concept of multiplayer for years now (like since 2017?) is not a very good sign that they have a clear vision for the game. If this is a recent decision, it does say a lot about why the game has been stuck in development hell for so long. But hopefully now with the single player focus they can hone in on the game's design more efficiently. I don't think the blame for scrapping multiplayer should be put entirely on Anthem because it was something different and new for them and you never know how something will play out until you try. Live service can mean so many things and honestly I wouldn't be opposed to something like new DLC missions and story quests after the main thing is completed. Instead of using DA4 as a MP platform Bioware could also do something like ESO to expand the lore and setting more. That could actually be pretty cool imo.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2021 6:50:53 GMT
Is this foreshadowing a new reboot? If DA4 got rebooted in 2017 to be made into a live service game, now that it won't be will it have to be reworked from the ground up yet again? I know there's a general consensus the game hasn't gotten that far into development for this to affect its development, but the fact that they have been flip flopping on the concept of multiplayer for years now (like since 2017?) is not a very good sign that they have a clear vision for the game. If this is a recent decision, it does say a lot about why the game has been stuck in development hell for so long. But hopefully now with the single player focus they can hone in on the game's design more efficiently. I don't think the blame for scrapping multiplayer should be put entirely on Anthem because it was something different and new for them and you never know how something will play out until you try. Live service can mean so many things and honestly I wouldn't be opposed to something like new DLC missions and story quests after the main thing is completed. Instead of using DA4 as a MP platform Bioware could also do something like ESO to expand the lore and setting more. That could actually be pretty cool imo. On the other hand I do seem to remember mutltiple times its come up where BioWare tends to save their development for multiplayer last and it was a seperate entity. Now I guess obviously this assumes it was going to be a seperate game...and not THE game...but if it was going to be a seperate game mode then there is little reason to expect that this would slow them down that much and again might even make dev time over all shorter because they would not need to incorporate MP. Though IF the game was going to be like Anthem with a heavy emphasis on multiplayer...well the specifics on what makes a game an MMO and what does not from a dev stand point is something I don't have a lot of real information on to make an informed guess. However I can imagine that a lot of the dev work could easily translate from one to another. Things like combat, the environments/worlds/ levels, basic story beats, characters, RP elements could be all more or less the same in either game mode. Though the interaction between player and world would be the biggest difference...that I could think of.
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Post by Adia on Feb 26, 2021 7:17:50 GMT
Is this foreshadowing a new reboot? If DA4 got rebooted in 2017 to be made into a live service game, now that it won't be will it have to be reworked from the ground up yet again? I know there's a general consensus the game hasn't gotten that far into development for this to affect its development, but the fact that they have been flip flopping on the concept of multiplayer for years now (like since 2017?) is not a very good sign that they have a clear vision for the game. If this is a recent decision, it does say a lot about why the game has been stuck in development hell for so long. But hopefully now with the single player focus they can hone in on the game's design more efficiently. I don't think the blame for scrapping multiplayer should be put entirely on Anthem because it was something different and new for them and you never know how something will play out until you try. Live service can mean so many things and honestly I wouldn't be opposed to something like new DLC missions and story quests after the main thing is completed. Instead of using DA4 as a MP platform Bioware could also do something like ESO to expand the lore and setting more. That could actually be pretty cool imo. I agree. They don't have a clear vision for the game if they make this type of decision this late in development. Which means that Bioware doesn't know what game they are making. Again.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2021 7:23:07 GMT
I know there's a general consensus the game hasn't gotten that far into development for this to affect its development, but the fact that they have been flip flopping on the concept of multiplayer for years now (like since 2017?) is not a very good sign that they have a clear vision for the game. If this is a recent decision, it does say a lot about why the game has been stuck in development hell for so long. But hopefully now with the single player focus they can hone in on the game's design more efficiently. I don't think the blame for scrapping multiplayer should be put entirely on Anthem because it was something different and new for them and you never know how something will play out until you try. Live service can mean so many things and honestly I wouldn't be opposed to something like new DLC missions and story quests after the main thing is completed. Instead of using DA4 as a MP platform Bioware could also do something like ESO to expand the lore and setting more. That could actually be pretty cool imo. I agree. They don't have a clear vision for the game if they make this type of decision this late in development. Which means that Bioware doesn't know what game they are making. Again. I am quite curious on how you know how far they are in development given there is little specific indications. Last thing we got an indication of was i believe the VGA BTS thing where they mentioned they were in early production...so they would still be in early production. Not late. Also worth mentioning because by your own postings you suggested late 2023 as a possible release date now...which has pretty much always been a possibility...and that date is still over 2 years out. So if you are right there is nothing to suggest they are late in production at all. Sure there is some logic to the 'bioware does not know what game they want to make' argument...but that never really holds a lot of water either given the final product is all that matters.
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Post by Fredward on Feb 26, 2021 8:05:41 GMT
Some people at Bioware sincerely and genuinely liked multiplayer not because they were gradually being replaced by nefarious MP-likers but because that's how people work. People like different things and when you have a bunch of them there's a myriad of opinions cf: this forum.
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Post by Adia on Feb 26, 2021 8:06:16 GMT
I agree. They don't have a clear vision for the game if they make this type of decision this late in development. Which means that Bioware doesn't know what game they are making. Again. I am quite curious on how you know how far they are in development given there is little specific indications. Last thing we got an indication of was i believe the VGA BTS thing where they mentioned they were in early production...so they would still be in early production. Not late. Also worth mentioning because by your own postings you suggested late 2023 as a possible release date now...which has pretty much always been a possibility...and that date is still over 2 years out. So if you are right there is nothing to suggest they are late in production at all. Sure there is some logic to the 'bioware does not know what game they want to make' argument...but that never really holds a lot of water either given the final product is all that matters. First of all - I never said they were in late stage of development, I said "this late in development". "This late in development" can still be pre production, you know that right? They are beyond the "are we making multiplayer? Singleplayer?" stage. That's literally one of the first decisions game makers should ever make.
They were also sure enough about the multiplayer to allude to it in the GA trailer. And 2023 was the far off bet, if you'd ask most people they'd tell you 2022. But my point still stands - there's no way in hell this change doesn't delay development without some serious repercussions and cut content, I can assure you that. The final product is all that matters? not the people making it? lmao. The people who are making it should know what the fuck they are making my dude. Otherwise their work environment and experience will suffer, their work will got to waste, and the game will be garbage.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Feb 26, 2021 8:11:17 GMT
According to Jason, the next Dragon Age has become a single-player game, while the creative group with ~30 devs who worked on Anthem Next has been merged into Dragon Age team. It feels a bit weird to assign those multiplayer devs to the single-player project. If their skills and knowledge are transferable to the new project, it's a no brainer they would get moved. Even if they had to learn some new things, it would still be a sound move to shuffle them around, as they develop new skills that will help future projects, the project they get moved to gets more people to help out, and it's better than to just keep them doing nothing while paying them, or worse yet, not paying them. This happens a lot in many types of corporations. On the other hand I do seem to remember mutltiple times its come up where BioWare tends to save their development for multiplayer last and it was a seperate entity. Now I guess obviously this assumes it was going to be a seperate game...and not THE game...but if it was going to be a seperate game mode then there is little reason to expect that this would slow them down that much and again might even make dev time over all shorter because they would not need to incorporate MP. If I remember correctly, DAIMP was developed alongside the SP because the were testing out the SP combat in the MP.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Feb 26, 2021 8:17:43 GMT
Some people at Bioware sincerely and genuinely liked multiplayer not because they were gradually being gradually replaced by nefarious MP-likers but because that's how people work. People like different things and when you have a bunch of them there's a myriad of opinions cf: this forum. More often than not, both of those statements are true. Companies don't hire solely based on skillset but also based on the fit of the person they're hiring to the overall values and views for the future the company has. Someone can be an absolutely genius programmer/designer/animator/writer but if their personality or values don't fit with the company culture, sadly they won't get hired. It would create needless frustrations and conflicts both on the side of the company and on the side of the new hire.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2021 8:21:55 GMT
I am quite curious on how you know how far they are in development given there is little specific indications. Last thing we got an indication of was i believe the VGA BTS thing where they mentioned they were in early production...so they would still be in early production. Not late. Also worth mentioning because by your own postings you suggested late 2023 as a possible release date now...which has pretty much always been a possibility...and that date is still over 2 years out. So if you are right there is nothing to suggest they are late in production at all. Sure there is some logic to the 'bioware does not know what game they want to make' argument...but that never really holds a lot of water either given the final product is all that matters. First of all - I never said they were in late stage of development, I said "this late in development". "This late in development" can still be pre production, you know that right? They are beyond the "are we making multiplayer? Singleplayer?" stage. That's literally one of the first decisions game makers should ever make.
They were also sure enough about the multiplayer to allude to it in the GA trailer. And 2023 was the far off bet, if you'd ask most people they'd tell you 2022. But my point still stands - there's no way in hell this change doesn't delay development without some serious repercussions and cut content, I can assure you that. The final product is all that matters? not the people making it? lmao. The people who are making it should know what the fuck they are making my dude. Otherwise their work environment and experience will suffer, their work will got to waste, and the game will be garbage. Apparently not. They did? I do not remember any alluding to Multiplayer at this point. And my guess was always going to be at the outside late 2023. I thought that was a pretty safe consensus around here. 2022-23 seemed to be where things were going. Now if we were talking 2024 I would certainly agree with you. And how would this deay devolpment even further? It could very easily do that but Multiplayer components or making a full MP game tends to take a lot more developmental resources. Taking on an entire mode, like in previous DA games, for instance is seperate from the Sp component. It could just as easily mean this would require less resources. Less dev time. And a more streamlined process...etc. They know what they are making far better then what we do. They are the professionals that work in game dev. We are the armchair quarterbacks sitting here and reacting to whatever snippets of info we can get through the looking glass. We have little idea what it takes to make a game. Little idea of the internal processes of what goes on and when these decisions can and cannot be made. All we can do is judge the final product when it comes out and then work from there. And BioWare has never made garbage. According to Jason, the next Dragon Age has become a single-player game, while the creative group with ~30 devs who worked on Anthem Next has been merged into Dragon Age team. It feels a bit weird to assign those multiplayer devs to the single-player project. If their skills and knowledge are transferable to the new project, it's a no brainer they would get moved. Even if they had to learn some new things, it would still be a sound move to shuffle them around, as they develop new skills that will help future projects, the project they get moved to gets more people to help out, and it's better than to just keep them doing nothing while paying them, or worse yet, not paying them. This happens a lot in many types of corporations. On the other hand I do seem to remember mutltiple times its come up where BioWare tends to save their development for multiplayer last and it was a seperate entity. Now I guess obviously this assumes it was going to be a seperate game...and not THE game...but if it was going to be a seperate game mode then there is little reason to expect that this would slow them down that much and again might even make dev time over all shorter because they would not need to incorporate MP. If I remember correctly, DAIMP was developed alongside the SP because the were testing out the SP combat in the MP. Yes thanks for the reminder I was going to mention somthing along those lines to.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 26, 2021 8:26:02 GMT
I'm here wishing DA4 would have same kind of small MP like DAI and MEA has... (though less buggy than DAIMP )
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 26, 2021 8:57:48 GMT
I'm here wishing DA4 would have same kind of small MP like DAI and MEA has... (though less buggy than DAIMP Would you prefer multi-player with a string of releases associated with this or would you prefer several single player DLC that expand your enjoyment of the game? Personally I prefer the latter, although I do acknowledge that these two things do not have to be mutually exclusive.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 26, 2021 9:02:34 GMT
I'm here wishing DA4 would have same kind of small MP like DAI and MEA has... (though less buggy than DAIMP Would you prefer multi-player with a string of releases associated with this or would you prefer several single player DLC that expand your enjoyment of the game? Personally I prefer the latter, although I do acknowledge that these two things do not have to be mutually exclusive. Both actually, but I'm not broken if I dont get MP. I would say from all the multiplayer games from BioWare most social are Anthem and DAIMP where you can signal the actions and thank/cry for help. Also they make great and stupid combinations when used properly (and sparingly) - Example: I rushed on stupidly into the enemies and was downed, I pressed "Thanks" button and my character said "What a victory!" If they make MP I hope they keep and maybe even expand on it like in Anthem, you could have the default greetings etc. but also a small chat was available.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Feb 26, 2021 9:05:05 GMT
I'm glad they're back to SP, but rebooting the project again so late in development while using Frostbite doesn't sound that good. Joplin (SP), 2015-2017. Morrison (MP), 2017-2020. ???? (SP), 2020-202?.
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Post by Rascoth on Feb 26, 2021 9:48:10 GMT
I'm here wishing DA4 would have same kind of small MP like DAI and MEA has... (though less buggy than DAIMP ) What, you didn't like Nania?
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Feb 26, 2021 10:00:39 GMT
I'm glad they're back to SP, but rebooting the project again so late in development while using Frostbite doesn't sound that good. Joplin (SP), 2015-2017. Morrison (MP), 2017-2021. ???? (SP), 2021-202?. We don't know a) how long ago this happened if they're even rebooting again or c) how long it is until the game comes out.
(I mean, this could be a sign of the game being trapped in development hell, for sure, but depending on exactly how whatever multiplayer elements there were integrated into the rest of it there might have been a lot of changes made or not many at all. Impossible to say without more information than we have.)
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Feb 26, 2021 10:01:04 GMT
I'm here wishing DA4 would have same kind of small MP like DAI and MEA has... (though less buggy than DAIMP ) What, you didn't like Nania? That does not happen often thank the maker... but I mean mostly about game play stuff like being constantly staggered so you cannot even get up anymore and die, or your actions have no result - Qunari being super OP in various ways (like whose great idea was to have spearmen blocking 99,9% of every projectile, or where did the assasins get the skill to disable your barriers!?) and so on. Balance is way off in places like in some previous multiplayer game, in a game breaking way for a lot of newbies. I still like it though sometimes its just alt-F4 infuriating.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Feb 26, 2021 10:14:38 GMT
I'm glad they're back to SP, but rebooting the project again so late in development while using Frostbite doesn't sound that good. Joplin (SP), 2015-2017. Morrison (MP), 2017-2021. ???? (SP), 2021-202?. We don't know a) how long ago this happened if they're even rebooting again or c) how long it is until the game comes out. (I mean, this could be a sign of the game being trapped in development hell, for sure, but depending on exactly how whatever multiplayer elements there were integrated into the rest of it there might have been a lot of changes made or not many at all. Impossible to say without more information than we have.)
archive.vn/OPrSV" In recent months, it has transformed into a single-player-only game after EA was stung by a recent multiplayer flop." So at least since late 2020 they've been working on it, I don't see it coming before 2023 while also working from home unless they can reuse a lot of the stuff from Joplin/Morrison.
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Post by Fredward on Feb 26, 2021 10:16:27 GMT
It'd be crazy if they rebooted for a third time, discarding five years of dev time two of which was on a SP focused idea. I'm assuming that they'll work with what they have now and maybe reintroduce elements that were incompatible with an LS game now. Obviously I'm most concerned with how this would impact the story/characters but I also feel that this miiight be the areas least impacted. Maybe. Depends on how deep the LS integration went.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2021 10:26:14 GMT
I'm glad they're back to SP, but rebooting the project again so late in development while using Frostbite doesn't sound that good. Joplin (SP), 2015-2017. Morrison (MP), 2017-2021. ???? (SP), 2021-202?. We don't know a) how long ago this happened if they're even rebooting again or c) how long it is until the game comes out.
(I mean, this could be a sign of the game being trapped in development hell, for sure, but depending on exactly how whatever multiplayer elements there were integrated into the rest of it there might have been a lot of changes made or not many at all. Impossible to say without more information than we have.)
my exact read. If DA 4 had limited multiplayer like DAI should be little to no delay...may even accelerate. If DA 4 was intended to be an Anthem clone then this could require a significant retooling and another delay.
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mattjamho
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mattjamho on Feb 26, 2021 11:17:05 GMT
Do we know what level of 'live service' was to be implemented? It's pretty vague right? It could have been a full-on Destiny like experience, or it could have just been certain arena's in the game getting seasonal updates? Hopefully it was something like the latter, I can't see that effecting the game's production timeline...but if it was the former...
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