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Post by QuizzyBunny on Apr 22, 2021 7:07:43 GMT
Still can't believe I actually got the clan out alive doing those missions without any meta-gaming, when I did it I didn't fully grasp what the consequences would be for failure.
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blep mlem mlem
ratlobster banger
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 3,912
Prime Likes: 9733
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 22, 2021 17:37:31 GMT
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 22, 2021 18:03:32 GMT
...Is that supposed to be controversial?
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 22, 2021 18:07:16 GMT
Nunzio DeFilippis @ndeflippisJust six days until #DragonAge #DarkFortress Issue 2. Christina Weir @furakawaheinz @atiyehcolors @blambot @darkhorsecomics Getting nervous? Not worry. As #FrancescaInvidus says:
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 22, 2021 18:17:28 GMT
...Is that supposed to be controversial? It's just a conversation we've been having over live service and its many shortcomings. Let's say that, if I were Bioware, I wouldn't put out a roadmap for it.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 22, 2021 18:31:29 GMT
...Is that supposed to be controversial? It's just a conversation we've been having over live service and its many shortcomings. Let's say that, if I were Bioware, I wouldn't put out a roadmap for it. As DA devs themselves have said, all DA titles to date had live service components - they just had it at the time this type of content hasn't been put under the umbrela of 'live service'. All the DLC and stuff we got post-release was technically live service.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 22, 2021 18:34:56 GMT
As DA devs themselves have said, all DA titles to date had live service components - they just had it at the time it hasn't been put under the umbrela of 'live service'. All the DLC and content we got post-release was technically live service. Casey Hudson said that and merely said that past games shared elements like that of liver service games. The one game that Bioware did release under the "live service" banner, Anthem, got almost less post release content than Andromeda did. So, as I said, I would not post a roadmap for Dread Wolf.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 22, 2021 18:42:45 GMT
As DA devs themselves have said, all DA titles to date had live service components - they just had it at the time it hasn't been put under the umbrela of 'live service'. All the DLC and content we got post-release was technically live service. Casey Hudson said that and merely said that past games shared elements like that of liver service games. The one game that Bioware did release under the "live service" banner, Anthem, got almost less post release content than Andromeda did. So, as I said, I would not post a roadmap for Dread Wolf. Dude... if DLC and goodies we got after game's release have been categorized by devs as live service... why are we talking about Anthem-like roadmap? If they're going to have live service component it probably won't be looking exactly like Anthem, with the difference likely being that now the post-release content won't be an afterthought. Maybe it just means that they are already thinking about the shape of DLCs.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 22, 2021 18:58:23 GMT
Dude... if DLC and goodies we got after game's release has been categorized by devs as live service... why are we talking about Anthem-like roadmap? If they're going to have live service component it likely won't be looking exactly like Anthem, with the difference likely being that now the post-release content won't be an afterthought. Maybe it just means that they are already thinking about the shape of DLCs. First of all, getting expansions and patches is not what makes a game a live service. Casey can say it is so, it isn't so. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true. There is a definition for live service and it doesn't fit what Casey said. And even what Casey did say is that their past games kind of resemble a live service, but calling it live service is like saying that Humans are just cows because of milk. Secondly, the one game that is officially a live service, was Anthem. And the one example of a roadmap that Bioware had, was Anthem's. And you've seen how much of that was realized, before Bioware, wisely, chose to delete it entirely. So, if I were Bioware, I wouldn't post a roadmapt. I'd put content up when it's ready and once I'd proven my reliability, then I would possibly put a roadmap up. But if I did put up a roadmap pre-launch, or on launch, I'd just be asking for it. Because I know people are just waiting around the corner to tell me off about "roadmaps" and how they don't believe I am going to hold up my end of the deal.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 22, 2021 19:37:14 GMT
Casey Hudson said that and merely said that past games shared elements like that of liver service games. The one game that Bioware did release under the "live service" banner, Anthem, got almost less post release content than Andromeda did. So, as I said, I would not post a roadmap for Dread Wolf. Dude... if DLC and goodies we got after game's release has been categorized by devs as live service... why are we talking about Anthem-like roadmap? If they're going to have live service component it likely won't be looking exactly like Anthem, with the difference likely being that now the post-release content won't be an afterthought. Maybe it just means that they are already thinking about the shape of DLCs. i think we have a winner.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 22, 2021 20:16:57 GMT
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 22, 2021 21:02:15 GMT
Oh no... John, what'd you do? are you the person who's going to make me cry in DA4? I swear I have one scene in every game so far
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Post by colfoley on Apr 22, 2021 21:10:16 GMT
Oh no... John, what'd you do? are you the person who's going to make me cry in DA4? I swear I have one scene in every game so far just one?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 21:17:41 GMT
Dude... if DLC and goodies we got after game's release has been categorized by devs as live service... why are we talking about Anthem-like roadmap? If they're going to have live service component it likely won't be looking exactly like Anthem, with the difference likely being that now the post-release content won't be an afterthought. Maybe it just means that they are already thinking about the shape of DLCs. i think we have a winner. I don't. There are loads of assumptions and qualifiers in the response, it essentially says likely. Let's be clear: DLCs are not live service. If we can't all agree on that, this conversation is dead in it's tracks. Not sure how the shape of DLCs has anything to do with this - a story DLC is a story, and it is either finished or it isn't. What are the "live service" elements of previous BioWare games? ME3MP had balance changes, that could instantly change the game without the need for a patch. It was limited, but it was a live service. DAMP had this as well iirc. DAI did not, none of their single player games have had any live service of any sort. This returns us to the question at hand - if DA4 is a single player experience, with a coherent story, how can Live Service be integrated? More importantly, why is it necessary, or beneficial? I have heard some things about the Ubisoft games, with "challenges". Maybe I have no imagination (I admit it isn't what it used to be), but I am failing to make the connection in this universe when there is generally a plot with some urgency, which we can choose to ignore but it is there. Finally, avoiding a roadmap is always a good idea. All it does is create more expectations.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 22, 2021 21:26:18 GMT
Oh no... John, what'd you do? are you the person who's going to make me cry in DA4? I swear I have one scene in every game so far What scenes out of curiosity? Just asking since personally I never had moments where I cried from sadness in DA so far.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 22, 2021 21:30:57 GMT
Oh no... John, what'd you do? are you the person who's going to make me cry in DA4? I swear I have one scene in every game so far just one? hm...let's see...
in Origins, the ending to the Human Noble origin (also modded Dalish origin, but not counting that one since it's unofficial), also the Coronation at the end when you reconnect with the person of your origin (Ashalle made me cry in my past playthrough as a Dalish elf)
All that Remains in DA2, Marethari's death...
The ending to In Hushed Whispers in Inquisition (combination with the music and the scene has me in tears every damn time)
and in Mass Effect:
I haven't played the MET trilogy in a while, but Virmire makes me cry...parts of the suicide mission...the last mission on Ranoch, saying goodbye to Anderson... And the death of papa Ryder in ME Andromeda
and those are just the ones of the top of my head
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 22, 2021 21:31:57 GMT
Oh no... John, what'd you do? are you the person who's going to make me cry in DA4? I swear I have one scene in every game so far What scenes out of curiosity? Just asking since personally I never had moments where I cried from sadness in DA so far. see my post above, you ninja-ed me while I was typing out my response to colfoley
I'm just a rather sensitive person ...and seem to getting more sensitive as years go by...in the past All that Remains didn't make me cry, but now it does
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Apr 22, 2021 21:37:38 GMT
My hardest cry was a ME moment - the death of Mordin. Had sad tears running down my cheeks with some pathetic sniffles.
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ratlobster banger
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 3,912
Prime Likes: 9733
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Post by Solas on Apr 22, 2021 21:57:23 GMT
interesting. not long ago there was that thing where jason schrier was like ''Time for some news that is going to make BioWare fans really happy. Following the success of Jedi Fallen Order and the failure of Anthem, EA has allowed BioWare to make the next Dragon Age a single-player RPG. Previously, it was planned as a service game''
"Other Open World titles"... what's classed as Open World nowadays anyway? DAI was "semi open-world". was DA2 open world in any capacity? was DAO?
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Post by colfoley on Apr 22, 2021 22:06:12 GMT
i think we have a winner. I don't. There are loads of assumptions and qualifiers in the response, it essentially says likely. Let's be clear: DLCs are not live service. If we can't all agree on that, this conversation is dead in it's tracks. Not sure how the shape of DLCs has anything to do with this - a story DLC is a story, and it is either finished or it isn't. What are the "live service" elements of previous BioWare games? ME3MP had balance changes, that could instantly change the game without the need for a patch. It was limited, but it was a live service. DAMP had this as well iirc. DAI did not, none of their single player games have had any live service of any sort. This returns us to the question at hand - if DA4 is a single player experience, with a coherent story, how can Live Service be integrated? More importantly, why is it necessary, or beneficial? I have heard some things about the Ubisoft games, with "challenges". Maybe I have no imagination (I admit it isn't what it used to be), but I am failing to make the connection in this universe when there is generally a plot with some urgency, which we can choose to ignore but it is there. Finally, avoiding a roadmap is always a good idea. All it does is create more expectations. Well we can't all agree on that so I guess the conversation ain't going anywhere, but yes DLC is one element of a live service model. I do agree on avoiding a road map though. They never seem to end all that well, either keep it generalized like 'road guidelines' or just release a road map as you go after launch when you have a pretty good idea you want to follow through on your post launch plans and when you will be starting to release them.
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 23, 2021 0:51:29 GMT
i think we have a winner. I don't. There are loads of assumptions and qualifiers in the response, it essentially says likely. Let's be clear: DLCs are not live service. If we can't all agree on that, this conversation is dead in it's tracks. Not sure how the shape of DLCs has anything to do with this - a story DLC is a story, and it is either finished or it isn't. What are the "live service" elements of previous BioWare games? Fernando Melo DiscoBabaloo Also, fwiw, every single DA game to date has had "live elements" of some sort ppl :/ Virtually everything that is published after game's launch that is meant to prolong the longevity of the game is now a live service. And yes, DLCs - always meant to prolong the interest in the title and thus its longevity (yes, even story DLCs) - are basically LS components. The industry has moved on and now considers things like DLCs, MTX and virtually all the content (including free stuff we got in DAI, like Black Emporium or more PJs) and even patches with improvements as a legit source of revenue they have to plan alongside the main game itself, instead of just something they can make additional buck on during the post-launch support period for the title (that is now, generally, much longer). For games like DA a GaaS model that resembles one we got in, say, DAI, but more regular, better planned, bigger and over a longer period of time simply makes sense, especially if we are meant to wait for the next title, say, more than 2 years. I certainly wouldn't mind a dedicated LS team churning out even small-time story content like maybe additional scenes for DA romances or even a pack of improved hair or more colors and materials for crafting. Like... is there really anyone scared of that?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 2:02:38 GMT
I certainly wouldn't mind a dedicated LS team churning out even small-time story content like maybe additional scenes for DA romances or even a pack of improved hair or more colors and materials for crafting. Like... is there really anyone scared of that? Not scared of it, also entirely not interested in it and potentially turned off. I am being fairly strict with my interpretation of what is and isn't a "live service", and while I understand and agree that ongoing monetization of gaming products has become a thing, I disagree entirely that it is a good, necessary, or even beneficial thing for single player games beyond classical DLC that is an expansion of the existing game without reconning what you have already played. When you talk about romance expansions, that sounds like cash grab material and if that's how people want to spend their money great - but if it was important to the game it should have been in there, and if not it is masturbatory fantasy. That is also ok, but really not why I bought BioWare games in the past - I like the romances, but in the context of the game that I like more. Monetization of the gaming "product" is removing the natural game and making a choose your own adventure. It is not at all my cup of tea, and BioWare could shut all of this discussion down with an actually clear, unambiguous statement about what live service means in the context of Dragon Age.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 23, 2021 3:11:46 GMT
I don't. There are loads of assumptions and qualifiers in the response, it essentially says likely. Let's be clear: DLCs are not live service. If we can't all agree on that, this conversation is dead in it's tracks. Not sure how the shape of DLCs has anything to do with this - a story DLC is a story, and it is either finished or it isn't. What are the "live service" elements of previous BioWare games? Fernando Melo DiscoBabaloo Also, fwiw, every single DA game to date has had "live elements" of some sort ppl :/ Virtually everything that is published after game's launch that is meant to prolong the longevity of the game is now a live service. And yes, DLCs - always meant to prolong the interest in the title and thus its longevity (yes, even story DLCs) - are basically LS components. The industry has moved on and now considers things like DLCs, MTX and virtually all the content (including free stuff we got in DAI, like Black Emporium or more PJs) and even patches with improvements as a legit source of revenue they have to plan alongside the main game itself, instead of just something they can make additional buck on during the post-launch support period for the title (that is now, generally, much longer). For games like DA a GaaS model that resembles one we got in, say, DAI, but more regular, better planned, bigger and over a longer period of time simply makes sense, especially if we are meant to wait for the next title, say, more than 2 years. I certainly wouldn't mind a dedicated LS team churning out even small-time story content like maybe additional scenes for DA romances or even a pack of improved hair or more colors and materials for crafting. Like... is there really anyone scared of that? Loads of people apparently. Though you do also highlight something else which is interesting when you say the industry 'has moved on to consider x,y,z, live service' is, maybe, an important distinction. Before anyone jumps on me for this I would still hesitate to call games like Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1 'live service' but it is still a worthy distinction to make as a possibility of how trends/ word usage can evolve. Also, as I pointed out in the other thread, dealing with the whole package of what makes a live service game a live service game rather then just one or two of the things (my argument was far more complete in the other thread for those who want clarification).
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