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Post by river82 on Apr 23, 2021 5:22:39 GMT
Fernando Melo DiscoBabaloo Also, fwiw, every single DA game to date has had "live elements" of some sort ppl :/ Before people get too excited by this quote please read what was actually said. If you look at what Fernando Melo says, he says that almost every DA game has live elements of some sort. It's similar to what happened with RPGs, games that had RPG features were considered to have RPG elements, and then RPG and RPG elements were used interchangeably, blurred, until you have the current situation where loads of games are just called RPGs. While we're certainly headed to that stage with Live Service, we're not really there yet. Even AskAGame Dev talked how a component of live services was you needing to be "online" just a couple of years ago. That was in April 2019, terminology has changed since then but probably not as much as some people believe. First off, the main argument hinges on accepting that all games are products and are thus legally constrained by laws that treat them as such. This can be problematic, since many games have been established as live services (e.g. World of Warcraft). I don’t think any of WoW’s (or any other MMOG’s) players expect to be able to play the game offline. askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/184530414571/regarding-that-video-about-games-as-a-serviceAt the end of the day when talking about Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 1, it just goes against what people believe the word is about to talk about these games being live service games. We're certainly at the stage where people are talking about "live elements" in games I guess, and therefore at the stage where people talk about how "live" a game is, or how many live elements are packed into a game.
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Post by river82 on Apr 23, 2021 5:30:11 GMT
PS: Also if you read the response from AskAGameDev above they imply that Live Services would have trouble being considered products in the legal sense of the word. Back in 2019 anyway. Which again is more like the traditional SaaS definition.
Live "elements" is not the same, atm anyway, as a live service. Live elements implies that a few aspects or common things found in live services are included within, and not the whole live service experience.
But I suspect what Fernando was talking about was not really a definition. What I read from his statement is that games have many things considered a part of Live services, you're all familiar with them, this scary sounding thing isn't as scary as you think. I don't think he was trying to say "all DA games are live services"
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 23, 2021 7:09:50 GMT
I don’t think any of WoW’s (or any other MMOG’s) players expect to be able to play the game offline.This is the bit that worries me whenever "live service" is mentioned. It is bad enough I have to log in every time I want to play the game (whereas in the good old days I merely had to have the required discs) but once that has been done I am able to play the game entirely off-line if I wish. That means that I don't have to worry if my internet connection suddenly drops out. Also broadband speeds here in the U.K. can vary tremendously depending on where you live. As long as "live service" does just mean add-on content after you have finished the main game well and good, but so long that is all it means.
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Post by river82 on Apr 23, 2021 7:18:15 GMT
I don’t think any of WoW’s (or any other MMOG’s) players expect to be able to play the game offline.This is the bit that worries me whenever "live service" is mentioned. It is bad enough I have to log in every time I want to play the game (whereas in the good old days I merely had to have the required discs) but once that has been done I am able to play the game entirely off-line if I wish. That means that I don't have to worry if my internet connection suddenly drops out. Also broadband speeds here in the U.K. can vary tremendously depending on where you live. As long as "live service" does just mean add-on content after you have finished the main game well and good, but so long that is all it means.It's definitely a valid concern for sure So the part I highlighted is actually one of the reasons why I don't like this definition creep people like to do. So basically categories give the consumer an idea of what to expect from games. If I say "MMORPG" people usually know the kinds of things involved. If I say "live service" those two words should indicate to people what sort of features a game will feature, and people can flitter from one category to another happily narrowing down the games they enjoy by category. But now, but NOW, we have to guess because reasons I suppose
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 10:46:26 GMT
This is the bit that worries me whenever "live service" is mentioned. It is bad enough I have to log in every time I want to play the game (whereas in the good old days I merely had to have the required discs) but once that has been done I am able to play the game entirely off-line if I wish. That means that I don't have to worry if my internet connection suddenly drops out. Also broadband speeds here in the U.K. can vary tremendously depending on where you live. As long as "live service" does just mean add-on content after you have finished the main game well and good, but so long that is all it means.It's definitely a valid concern for sure So the part I highlighted is actually one of the reasons why I don't like this definition creep people like to do. So basically categories give the consumer an idea of what to expect from games. If I say "MMORPG" people usually know the kinds of things involved. If I say "live service" those two words should indicate to people what sort of features a game will feature, and people can flitter from one category to another happily narrowing down the games they enjoy by category. But now, but NOW, we have to guess because reasons I suppose This. Sliding definitions are the work of people doing shady things, no other way to put it honestly. Evolution of word meaning is absurd other than in a social sense... "That shit be dope" is an example of verbal evolution, live service is not. Some of you have bought this and shipped it already. This was a mistake. No single player game needs an always-online requirement. No single player game needs live service. Single player games may have DLC, which is simply not a live service - you aren't playing the game when you install DLC. A patch is not live service, it is a patch and also doesn't get installed while you are in-game. In short, this is a trivial discussion that marketers have made, not developers. Marketers bastardize words all the time to sell you something; you don't have to buy it and it is easy to see through their bullshit.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 23, 2021 12:56:33 GMT
Strategy Guide and Art Book for Dragon Age: Inquisition
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 24, 2021 0:36:37 GMT
Nunzio DeFilippis @ndefilippis5 days until the #DragonAge team storms the #DarkFortress and #Fenris has his concerns: Christina Weir@furukawaheinz @atiyehcolors @blambot @darkhorsecomics
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 24, 2021 18:26:05 GMT
Nunzio DeFilippis @ndefilippisWe’re now 4 days away from Issue 2 of #DragonAge #DarkFortress and #Marius is ready! Are you? @furukawaheinz Christina Weir@atiyehcolors @blambot @darkhorsecomics
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 24, 2021 20:06:22 GMT
AlexM.c @alex12561 i know you have a lot of knowledge of Dragonage and i have some questions and i hope you can give me answers! 1) Do we have to take for true every single codex or they could tell "lies" to us? 2) is it possible to find lyrium naturally in the fade?
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah Dragon Age codex entries are almost always written with an in world author. As a result, they are as true as that author chose them to be...
I do not believe there would be lyrium in the fade. But that’s a question for @eplerjc @sergoldman and @patrickweekes
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 25, 2021 16:00:59 GMT
Nunzio DeFilippis @ndefilippis3 days until #DragonAge #DarkFortress Issue 2, where things will make our characters go “hmmmm” Christina Weir@furukawaheinz @atiyehcolors @blambot @darkhorsecomics
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 26, 2021 12:53:39 GMT
Nunzio DeFilippis @ndefilippis2 days until #DragonAge #DarkFortress Issue 2, and Tessa has an important question. Christina Weir@furukawaheinz @atiyehcolors @blambot @darkhorsecomics
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 26, 2021 13:07:24 GMT
The Collector's Edition for Dragon Age: Inquisition is my favorite...
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 27, 2021 13:01:30 GMT
Nunzio DeFilippis @ndefilippis1 day until #DragonAge #DarkFortress Issue 2. Need directions to your local comic shop? Christina Weir@furukawaheinz @atiyehcolors @blambot @darkhorsecomics
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 28, 2021 13:29:09 GMT
53 seconds on fidget cubes. And unprotected manufacturing
seb hanlon @hanlsp They’re not indistinguishable, though, when you fidget with them - as I recall, the knockoff is missing many of the subtle details and variations that make the original more interesting-stimulating, like different levels of friction on the click buttons.
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 28, 2021 13:30:45 GMT
Nunzio DeFilippis @ndefilippisToday is new comic book day. Karasten is watching – making sure you pick up Issue 2 of #DragonAge #DarkFortress Christina Weir@furukawaheinz @atiyehcolors @blambot @darkhorsecomics
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 28, 2021 16:06:49 GMT
I have to admit I am disappointed that that the Qunari lost their black eyed look. Although they do seem to have reverted to the original look of DAO, judging by Sten compared with the DA2 idea. Of course, Sten had normal ears too, so he did look more like a tall, buff, grey skinned human, whereas the Qunari in DA2 look very different.
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Post by necrowaif on Apr 28, 2021 16:14:38 GMT
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 28, 2021 16:37:45 GMT
The title is a little bit of clickbait, as the article focuses mostly on the relevance of the Inquisitor as a character in opposition to Solas, which is quite fair. The bits where if mentioned the disabled part, however, are wrong, in the sense that the lack of a hand isn’t (I believe) really a reason considered by BioWare to remove the Inquisitor. The disabled part is mentioned here by some, but I don’t think it was really relevant for BioWare when considering changing to keeping the same protagonist for DA4. I’d say a much bigger reason for the shift in protagonist would be if the game was been developed to be a fully online game, before the SP shift: as having the Inquisitor as a protagonist in and Anthem-like game wouldn’t have worked at all. I brought here the comment on the article, as I posted it in the wrong thread.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 28, 2021 17:00:52 GMT
The title is a little bit of clickbait, as the article focuses mostly on the relevance of the Inquisitor as a character in opposition to Solas, which is quite fair. The bits where if mentioned the disabled part, however, are wrong, in the sense that the lack of a hand isn’t (I believe) really a reason considered by BioWare to remove the Inquisitor. The disabled part is mentioned here by some, but I don’t think it was really relevant for BioWare when considering changing to keeping the same protagonist for DA4. I’d say a much bigger reason for the shift in protagonist would be if the game was been developed to be a fully online game, before the SP shift: as having the Inquisitor as a protagonist in and Anthem-like game wouldn’t have worked at all. Patrick Weekes stated it wasn’t the reason they removed the hand, saying that there are many amputee heroes, but instead just to symbolize their days of sealing rifts was done. Of course that was long ago and turned out to be nothing but a lie. I hope what you said was the reason why not, and now that they aren’t doing that route with the game they go back to using the Inquisitor. It won’t happen, but can at least hope.
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Post by biggydx on Apr 28, 2021 17:08:00 GMT
Sounds like some of y'all need to take a trip to my, "How do you Define Live Service/GaaS?" thread to hash out this discussion.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 28, 2021 17:14:28 GMT
So facts then? Read the article, made good points, hope a lot more articles like this are written. Hopefully then BioWare either gets the message, or are at least properly and rightfully condemned for their decision.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 28, 2021 17:22:52 GMT
The title is a little bit of clickbait, as the article focuses mostly on the relevance of the Inquisitor as a character in opposition to Solas, which is quite fair. The bits where if mentioned the disabled part, however, are wrong, in the sense that the lack of a hand isn’t (I believe) really a reason considered by BioWare to remove the Inquisitor. The disabled part is mentioned here by some, but I don’t think it was really relevant for BioWare when considering changing to keeping the same protagonist for DA4. I’d say a much bigger reason for the shift in protagonist would be if the game was been developed to be a fully online game, before the SP shift: as having the Inquisitor as a protagonist in and Anthem-like game wouldn’t have worked at all. Patrick Weekes stated it wasn’t the reason they removed the hand, saying that there are many amputee heroes, but instead just to symbolize their days of sealing rifts was done. Of course that was long ago and turned out to be nothing but a lie. I hope what you said was the reason why not, and now that they aren’t doing that route with the game they go back to using the Inquisitor. It won’t happen, but can at least hope. I don’t think that what Patrick said was a lie, only because the Inquisitor isn’t the protagonist in DA4. They might, although it depends on several factors. I wouldn’t say there are high chances, so I wouldn’t be too hopefully, but compared to others, I do think the possibility is there. @biggydix: I know a live service game doesn’t have to be necessarily an Anthem-like game, and Hudson himself said so when articles of this surfaced years ago. It doesn’t mean that DA4 wouldn’t have been an Anthem like game. Unless leaks or an official statement is made, anything is possible. I think it’s possible that the game was supposed to be similar to Anthem, because of the dev diary in August and the teaser trailer in December of last year. Something about Varric’s speech, alongside some concept arts, gave me that impression. It doesn’t mean I’m sure of it, but those, coupled with the news of Anthem being basically shut down and DA4 shifting to a full SP game, shortly between each other, lead me to not discount this possibility. My view isn’t based on a hope that they’ll bring back the Inquisitor as a protagonist. As I stated numerous times, I’m personally fine with both a new and recurring protagonist.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 28, 2021 17:25:27 GMT
So facts then? Read the article, made good points, hope a lot more articles like this are written. Hopefully then BioWare either gets the message, or are at least properly and rightfully condemned for their decision. I think being criticized for the missed opportunity of having a disabled PC is quite fine, and I expect this to happen (alongside more criticism for not bring back the Inquisitor in general, for obvious plot reasons regarding Solas). I think condemnation is too harsh, because I don’t think the shift is really about the Inquisitor being disabled.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Apr 28, 2021 17:27:28 GMT
I don't think live services have impacted the decision for a new protagonist. I think that was decided probably even before Trespasser. The dev slides are a pretty good indication of that, and I mean, just the fact that each game has had a new protagonist. If you were to choose a "status quo", DA4 would get a new protagonist. It puzzles me why people think something weird would have to happen to have a new protagonist when that's basically just the default decision.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 28, 2021 18:28:46 GMT
DA4 would get a new protagonist. It puzzles me why people think something weird would have to happen to have a new protagonist when that's basically just the default decision. That was fair enough. The point that I and many others have made is that if they wanted to start afresh, why end Trespasser in the way they did? It was that confrontation with Solas that involved the Inquisitor with him going forward. If you wanted to put a line under the Inquisitor, it would have been far better to end it with the balcony scene in DAI or, if you want to explain the lack of a Thedas wide organisation, do Trespasser but without Solas and just have one of their companions hack off their hand at the end to stop it killing them. Then send the Inquisitor into honourable retirement, thinking the job of saving Thedas is done and then have the new protagonist discover that is not the case. It is making the DAI PC personally invested in what Solas is trying to achieve going forward, which was even extended into the Dread Wolf Takes You with Solas communicating to the Inquisitor via Charter, that made the idea ridiculous that their intention with Trespasser was to tie off their story when in fact it did the exact opposite.
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