Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition PSN: InquisitorBunny Prime Posts: 430 Prime Likes: 1114 Posts: 2,389 Likes: 8,673
Maybe I'm biased as a Swede where the unions are really strong, but I could never imagine not belonging to the union. It's given me so much and they have my back when I need them, and where I work I have 31 days of vacation not counting holidays or extra days off we have. And that's just one of the nicest bonuses they've contributed. I've heard American friends say they only get like what, 5 days a year? And no sick pay if you happen to catch the influenza? I can't imagine the stress working under these conditions.
But that's just my view of things.
I get 5 weeks of vacation and "unlimited" sick days at the "usually excellent" American non-unionized company I have worked at for over 30 years. LOL
... of course, "your mileage may vary" ... considerably ...
My teenage work at non-unionized McD's was "perfect", compared to my work at two unionized companies before taking my current job.
John Epler @eplerjc: Having been in this industry for a while, one thing has proven out, time and time again. Success belongs to the team, and failure belongs to leadership. No game is a one-person show, or even close.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition PSN: InquisitorBunny Prime Posts: 430 Prime Likes: 1114 Posts: 2,389 Likes: 8,673
Maybe I'm biased as a Swede where the unions are really strong, but I could never imagine not belonging to the union. It's given me so much and they have my back when I need them, and where I work I have 31 days of vacation not counting holidays or extra days off we have. And that's just one of the nicest bonuses they've contributed. I've heard American friends say they only get like what, 5 days a year? And no sick pay if you happen to catch the influenza? I can't imagine the stress working under these conditions.
But that's just my view of things.
I get 5 weeks of vacation and "unlimited" sick days at the "usually excellent" American non-unionized company I have worked at for over 30 years. LOL
... of course, "your mileage may vary" ... considerably ...
My teenage work at non-unionized McD's was "perfect", compared to my work at two unionized companies before taking my current job.
I'm glad it's decent in some places, although was this a benefit given to all workers or just something you yourself negotiated? What I gather is that in America it can vary extremely between those that have a pretty nice work situation and those who have it not nice at all (usually these people are forced to do two jobs to make ends meet). Like I mentioned, to me in the context I live in it would be unimaginable to work without the support of my union, but unions exist in a historical and social context that I suspect varies a lot even between Western countries. I'd hate to think where we would have been today without out unions here, their impact has been immense.
"He is the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on... He has got huge, sharp -- eh -- he can leap about -- look at the bones!"
IMHO and based on my employment with both unionized and non-union companies ...
Unionized companies were generally excessively dysfunctional before they became unionized (and continue to be excessively dysfunctional after unionization). The bureaucracy of unions, and the "us versus them" culture they nurture, likely will not help upper management to make prompt decisions nor improve game quality.
Corporations who seem to care about their employees generally are not unionized, and have much more nimble and collaborative decision making.
It's hard to have a functional union in a country that makes it very hard for unions to function - like in e.g. USA, where labor unions are almost dead and thus they don't have as much negotiating power as in, say, other developed nations.
I'm not saying that that unionization is panacea for everything - there's more to healthy workplace than unionizing and so on, but it's a step in a good direction, as proven by how unions work in many EU countries, in particular those that boast a high standard of living.
Last Edit: Jan 19, 2022 19:16:07 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
David Gaider @davidgaider Mark out there telling it like it is. "BioWare Magic is bad process and lack of completion urgency." Yup.
One question is: "Why on EARTH would anyone compare such a terrible system to magic?"
It's like how science can seem like magic to those who don't understand science. This probably originated from those high up enough to have little awareness of what was actually happening.
To them, I suppose, the way the teams would get their shit together and, on a consistent basis, turn projects that seemed to be floundering into -- ta da! -- great games in a very short time seemed like pure wizardry.
It wasn't, of course. The "pivot point" Mark talks about always came after many many months - or years - of people further down the chain ringing alarm bells of how THIS IS NOT WORKING! DO SOMETHING!!
And they would. Eventually. Crunch and desperation to make up the shortfalls.
After each project, we'd have this big show of post-mortems where we'd talk about what went wrong. We'd get our anger off our chests, vows would be made to change... and were then quietly filed away and ignored.
Why? Because those projects were all, in the end, successes.
You reward success, right? Lead a project where the processes were so bad you ended up having death crunch to the point where half the team left the company after ship? Well, did it sell well? It did? Yay! You're now a hero!! Clearly you did SOMETHING right!
What's more, success meant those projects now became benchmarks. If it took X months to do Y then, it should now take X (or less! because this time we'll be somehow smarter!) to do it in this project. Never mind that X was only achieved through blood and sweat and tears.
There was magic at BioWare, don't get me wrong. And still is, I expect. The magic is passion. People who love what they do, and will make huge sacrifices to make games fans will adore.
Passion can be abused, however. And there's nothing even remotely magical about THAT.
Negative and positive.
On the negative front this does add some gloomy forecassts on all the recent departures and what not that keep happening. Sure the end of the year is a time for culling of the heard, but still...and I cannot imagine Covid has made this any easier on them as I have also talked on could also be either contributing to crunch, stress, or just a general re shuffling of priorities.
On the positive note though one has to wonder how much things can change. You get smarter you realize mistakes have been made and you work to correct them. Bit distressing that the solution sometimes seems to be 'throw the baby out with the bath water' rather then trusting the people who were there and made the problems not to fix them and move on...which could be giving them too much credit. But really there are signs and comments that EA has at least revevaluated certain things, not the least that the game still isn't even out yet.
On the plus side, EA eliminated live service multiplayer to limit the scope of DA4 ... hopefully this will speed development with hopefully less crunch.
John Epler @eplerjc: Having been in this industry for a while, one thing has proven out, time and time again. Success belongs to the team, and failure belongs to leadership. No game is a one-person show, or even close.
I get 5 weeks of vacation and "unlimited" sick days at the "usually excellent" American non-unionized company I have worked at for over 30 years. LOL
... of course, "your mileage may vary" ... considerably ...
My teenage work at non-unionized McD's was "perfect", compared to my work at two unionized companies before taking my current job.
I'm glad it's decent in some places, although was this a benefit given to all workers or just something you yourself negotiated? What I gather is that in America it can vary extremely between those that have a pretty nice work situation and those who have it not nice at all (usually these people are forced to do two jobs to make ends meet). Like I mentioned, to me in the context I live in it would be unimaginable to work without the support of my union, but unions exist in a historical and social context that I suspect varies a lot even between Western countries. I'd hate to think where we would have been today without out unions here, their impact has been immense.
The benefits apply to all full time workers. It took 25 years of emplyment to get five weeks of vacation (and an expensive watch). I qualified for my first week of vacation after 6 months of employment.
John Epler @eplerjc: Having been in this industry for a while, one thing has proven out, time and time again. Success belongs to the team, and failure belongs to leadership. No game is a one-person show, or even close.
Maybe I'm biased as a Swede where the unions are really strong, but I could never imagine not belonging to the union. It's given me so much and they have my back when I need them, and where I work I have 31 days of vacation not counting holidays or extra days off we have. And that's just one of the nicest bonuses they've contributed. I've heard American friends say they only get like what, 5 days a year? And no sick pay if you happen to catch the influenza? I can't imagine the stress working under these conditions.
But that's just my view of things.
I get 5 weeks of vacation and "unlimited" sick days at the "usually excellent" American non-unionized company I have worked at for over 30 years. LOL
... of course, "your mileage may vary" ... considerably ...
My teenage work at non-unionized McD's was "perfect", compared to my work at two unionized companies before taking my current job.
Personal anecdotes are nice and all, but there's a reason they are considered the least form of evidence in any environment that requires reliable data. According to studies even in US union workers generally have better wages and benefits.
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
I get 5 weeks of vacation and "unlimited" sick days at the "usually excellent" American non-unionized company I have worked at for over 30 years. LOL
... of course, "your mileage may vary" ... considerably ...
My teenage work at non-unionized McD's was "perfect", compared to my work at two unionized companies before taking my current job.
Personal anecdotes are nice and all, but there's a reason they are considered the least form of evidence in any environment that requires reliable data. According to studies even in US union workers generally have better wages and benefits.
"We are recognized as national leaders on breakthrough liberal economic policies."
I am sure your source is much more reliable than me, but the Economic Policy Institute is hardly unbiased.
My apologies in advance to the moderators ... I should probably shut up now.
Last Edit: Jan 19, 2022 2:39:43 GMT by githcheater
John Epler @eplerjc: Having been in this industry for a while, one thing has proven out, time and time again. Success belongs to the team, and failure belongs to leadership. No game is a one-person show, or even close.
On the negative front this does add some gloomy forecassts on all the recent departures and what not that keep happening. Sure the end of the year is a time for culling of the heard, but still...and I cannot imagine Covid has made this any easier on them as I have also talked on could also be either contributing to crunch, stress, or just a general re shuffling of priorities.
On the positive note though one has to wonder how much things can change. You get smarter you realize mistakes have been made and you work to correct them. Bit distressing that the solution sometimes seems to be 'throw the baby out with the bath water' rather then trusting the people who were there and made the problems not to fix them and move on...which could be giving them too much credit. But really there are signs and comments that EA has at least revevaluated certain things, not the least that the game still isn't even out yet.
On the plus side, EA eliminated live service multiplayer to limit the scope of DA4 ... hopefully this will speed development with hopefully less crunch.
*crosses fingers and toes and all other extrmeties*
Patreon (for my writing, posting chapters of my novel)
Personal anecdotes are nice and all, but there's a reason they are considered the least form of evidence in any environment that requires reliable data. According to studies even in US union workers generally have better wages and benefits.
"We are recognized as national leaders on breakthrough liberal economic policies."
I am sure your source is much more reliable than me, but the Economic Policy Institute is hardly unbiased.
My apologies in advance to the moderators ... I should probably shut up now.
I mean, yeah, instead she could have quoted some conservative or right-libertarian think thank or whatever and their possible opinion amounting to "evil union bosses wanting to steal your freedom" or just simply "that's all communism!!!!".
Last Edit: Jan 19, 2022 6:29:44 GMT by Buckeldemon
"Magic can't be made safe and it can't be destroyed. Fear makes men more dangerous than magic ever could." - Merrill
"Strength and steel are well and good, but magic is the true power in this world." - Wuunferth the Unliving
"Maschinen abgeschaltet, Ventilatoren kaputt! Alle ersticken und tot!"
I'm lucky, I suppose, I got all the "good stuff" like 30 days of paid vacation and paid sick leave and such without ever having to bother with a union. Very few people in my company are unionized, and it never seemed necessary to me. The company owners are "benevolent patriarchs" who value loyalty greatly and have established unwritten rules like "You will never go on strike, and we will never fire anyone when times are tough" and such. It seems to work pretty well. During the big financial crisis of 2008+ and the more recent troubles, any financial problems were split among all employees and everyone agreed to work for a little less for a while, even the unionized people, because "we all would like to still have a job to come back to tomorrow". To a lot of people's surprise, the last two years turned out to be the best in company history, so raises were awarded and bonuses paid so the good things would be shared too.
The things that are possible when a company is not publicly traded. Or, as the founder put it so eloquently, "Freedom is when you can tell the bankers where to stick it."
"Give me a fully loaded Hornet and I'll shake the gates of heaven." -Aria Reilly
Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jan 19, 2022 7:55:03 GMT
Reading all this I'm like thank god I live in Finland
Though Sweden and Germany seems to be the same mostly
Last Edit: Jan 19, 2022 10:39:35 GMT by Unicephalon 40-D: wording
[ LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI ] Waiting for ME5 - Look's like sometime in 2186, everything went to hell. We got out just ahead of it! MEA & ME1 (>>>> 3 > 2) -- DAI > DAO > DA2 -- 3500h+ & maxed out all 02/2020 in MEAMP, APEX 137001+, DAIMP (556/723/200), ANTHEM, SW BF II - Drinking tears of MP lamers since DooM & Quake in 90's softknees.bandcamp.com/ Go go go! I will destroy you! Watch out! Enemies everywhere! You must die!
There was magic at BioWare, don't get me wrong. And still is, I expect. The magic is passion. People who love what they do, and will make huge sacrifices to make games fans will adore.
Passion can be abused, however. And there's nothing even remotely magical about THAT.
I think this says it all really. Still, I also note what he says about success tending to gloss over the negative aspects of the process that produced it. In the case of Bioware, the fact that they have had two effective failures may have served as a wake up call. I just hope that if DA4 is an outstanding success they won't forget the people that may have been sacrificed along the way to achieve it.
Personal anecdotes are nice and all, but there's a reason they are considered the least form of evidence in any environment that requires reliable data. According to studies even in US union workers generally have better wages and benefits.
"We are recognized as national leaders on breakthrough liberal economic policies."
I am sure your source is much more reliable than me, but the Economic Policy Institute is hardly unbiased.
My apologies in advance to the moderators ... I should probably shut up now.
It's something I was able to link on a short notice - there's a ton of research, and generally it does indicate that unionization has benefits. US workers also fared better historically when unions were stronger.
And again, we have evidence of unions working in e.g. EU countries (so on national and not just personal scale), where unions are so strong they can negotiate on sector level, and not just company level. Great many countries that are on top of quality of life rankings have strong labor union backbone, like Sweden or Finland - and while this is not the only reason for that, it is a notable component.
I'm lucky, I suppose, I got all the "good stuff" like 30 days of paid vacation and paid sick leave and such without ever having to bother with a union. Very few people in my company are unionized, and it never seemed necessary to me. The company owners are "benevolent patriarchs" who value loyalty greatly and have established unwritten rules like "You will never go on strike, and we will never fire anyone when times are tough" and such. It seems to work pretty well. During the big financial crisis of 2008+ and the more recent troubles, any financial problems were split among all employees and everyone agreed to work for a little less for a while, even the unionized people, because "we all would like to still have a job to come back to tomorrow". To a lot of people's surprise, the last two years turned out to be the best in company history, so raises were awarded and bonuses paid so the good things would be shared too.
The things that are possible when a company is not publicly traded. Or, as the founder put it so eloquently, "Freedom is when you can tell the bankers where to stick it."
Workers working in companies I know can do without union too, but environment in those specific companies are NOT the reality shared by workers across the country.
It's like we live in different worlds, I'm afraid. Those who live in many places in Europe can't imagine labor landscape to not be shaped by unions, while in US the unions have been so diminished across many sectors that people don't feel they can do much good, or employees have to rely on benevolence of individual employers.
Last Edit: Jan 19, 2022 15:38:27 GMT by midnight tea
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
[ LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI ] Waiting for ME5 - Look's like sometime in 2186, everything went to hell. We got out just ahead of it! MEA & ME1 (>>>> 3 > 2) -- DAI > DAO > DA2 -- 3500h+ & maxed out all 02/2020 in MEAMP, APEX 137001+, DAIMP (556/723/200), ANTHEM, SW BF II - Drinking tears of MP lamers since DooM & Quake in 90's softknees.bandcamp.com/ Go go go! I will destroy you! Watch out! Enemies everywhere! You must die!
No, I mean, isn’t Finland a country of darkness and misery? That’s what I’ve always been led to believe.
Its all how one's perspective is to things. Chamos is now over, it lasted something like 50 days, but that was in Lapland, Northern Finland. I'm in south, here in slush Anyway, for some reason we are the happiest country in the world, I cant believe it but...
offtopic anyway
[ LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI ] Waiting for ME5 - Look's like sometime in 2186, everything went to hell. We got out just ahead of it! MEA & ME1 (>>>> 3 > 2) -- DAI > DAO > DA2 -- 3500h+ & maxed out all 02/2020 in MEAMP, APEX 137001+, DAIMP (556/723/200), ANTHEM, SW BF II - Drinking tears of MP lamers since DooM & Quake in 90's softknees.bandcamp.com/ Go go go! I will destroy you! Watch out! Enemies everywhere! You must die!
No, I mean, isn’t Finland a country of darkness and misery? That’s what I’ve always been led to believe.
Its all how one's perspective is to things. Chamos is now over, it lasted something like 50 days, but that was in Lapland, Northern Finland. I'm in south, here in slush Anyway, for some reason we are the happiest country in the world, I cant believe it but...
offtopic anyway
Well at least you have Auroras T_T
Here in Poland it may be warmer, but winters lately have been depressingly gray for the most part
“The cosmos is within us. We are made of star-stuff. We are a way for the universe to know itself.”
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Sheryl Chee @sherylchee So, I was reminded recently that Wynne is not that old. Late forties maybe? But when I wrote her I was like, twenty-six. Forty was such a long way off. Everything over forty? GRANDMA. Explains why Wynne has so much old lady energy.
Legendary Edition Fem Shep @cubsfanatic76 Oh my God. I thought she was in her 60s! She talks like a grandma lol
Sheryl Chee @sherylchee Okay, in my defence, I'm not sure of her exact age anymore. But really not that old. Her intense grandma energy definitely came from past-me thinking of everyone over a certain age as "grandmotherly, with one foot in the grave." I apologize to present-me for past-me.
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Also has one of the highest standards of living, is in the top 20 of GDP per person and is widely regarded as having the best education system in the world. All of these things are obviously highly related.
It is a bit chilly though.
When I was there for WorldCon in 2017 I was hugely impressed and was made to feel very welcome. Beer was pricey. Soumenlinna fortress is amazing. Really amazing.
Sheryl Chee @sherylchee So, I was reminded recently that Wynne is not that old. Late forties maybe? But when I wrote her I was like, twenty-six. Forty was such a long way off. Everything over forty? GRANDMA. Explains why Wynne has so much old lady energy.
Legendary Edition Fem Shep @cubsfanatic76 Oh my God. I thought she was in her 60s! She talks like a grandma lol
Sheryl Chee @sherylchee Okay, in my defence, I'm not sure of her exact age anymore. But really not that old. Her intense grandma energy definitely came from past-me thinking of everyone over a certain age as "grandmotherly, with one foot in the grave." I apologize to present-me for past-me.
While magic might be able to twist things one way or another what is the standard age of living for roughly 10th century Europe? 40s back then is probably not the same as 40s today.
(though in defense of this Dragon Age has always been quite anachronistic)
Patreon (for my writing, posting chapters of my novel)