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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 10, 2022 12:06:39 GMT
That the main character will get to go to each country on the map for a reason that connects overall to the hunt for the Dread Wolf or the Qunari Invasion. I do wonder what will be the original starting point for our PC. Will defeating the Dread Wolf be the driving factor from early on in the game or will we only discover the danger he presents as a result of getting involved in other plots that turn out to be connected with him? To be hunting for the Dread Wolf from the outset would mean us being closely connected with the Shadow Inquisition, whereas if it only becomes apparent later, that could be the point at which we make contact. In terms of your suggestion of being sent to various countries/zones this could fit with either scenario. I think that when it comes to the Dread Wolf plot, there is likely to be a necessity to visit numerous locations both to discover the means of stopping him but also possibly find an alternative plan for saving the world, assuming that it is not as simple as he previously made it out to be. In other words, he is not taking his action simply because he doesn't like the way the modern world turned out but because he knows it is doomed either way but if he takes his action then something can be salvaged from the ruins. Following these twin lines of enquiry could well involve travelling to multiple locations both on the surface and in the Deep Roads. Then on arrival in those locations, rather as in DAO, there may be sub-plots we could get involved in that may or may not have any bearing on the overall success of our mission but could supply us with helpful assets that will assist but are not necessarily essential to it. What I think most people here wish to avoid is the trudging around huge open worlds with just random encounters to break the monotony. The overall narrative of the Hissing Wastes was actually quite interesting: Going to multiple locations and finding clues to what had happened with the dwarven enclave in the past. Nevertheless, it was something that seemed an indulgence when my main focus should have been fighting Corypheus. Admittedly, there were Venatori in the location, who appeared to be searching for something that could be useful to them but I was never clear if this was the item at the end of the quest in the dwarven ruins or why they thought that was the case. What I found tedious was the enormous expanses I had to cross in order to do this. Even on horseback it took long enough but if I stayed on foot, in the hope that my companions might engage in dialogue, it was really frustrating, particular as the random critters only decided to attack me immediately after someone decided to get chatting. I then had the choice of breaking it off and likely never hearing it again or ignoring the creature trying to eat me until I had got the full conversation.
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 10, 2022 14:01:35 GMT
In Jackdaw's most recent DA video, he covers an interview Mark did with Last Stand Media, touching on DA4, BioWare, and EA. A kindly DA fan provided this transcript of that segment!
"Mark Darrah was recently interviewed on a Last Stand Media podcast. It was recorded just before Executive Producer Christian Dailey departed the studio. I'm pretty sure it was recorded on the day that this news was announced on the BioWare Blog, so do bear that in mind when Mark is talking about Dragon Age 4 here. On the podcast, Mark talked about games industry crunch conditions, Anthem's rocky development, Mass Effect: Andromeda, DA2's backlash, and insights on the next Dragon Age. Mark discussed something that BioWare has been struggling with over the years. BioWare is used to small teams back in the early days, and now they have big teams. They used to have a really good process that was good for around 100-200 team members. But since those teams have grown beyond 200 team members, BioWare has struggled to develop and adapt to new processes. This has been a huge challenge for the studio over the years and they've begun to learn to adapt to those larger teams, overcoming this difficulty.
Concerning EA and BioWare's relationship, Mark doesn't think that EA knows/knew what BioWare is, considering the bouncing back and forth of the next Dragon Age game. Shifting between a single player to a live service back to a single player has largely been EA's decision. And there was a huge pressure for Inquisition and Mass Effect: Andromeda to be on the Frostbite engine by EA. In fact, it wasn't even any pressure. Using the Frostbite engine was essentially mandated by EA. BioWare had no other choice. On the other hand, with EA's management over BioWare, BioWare hasn't slipped as much as it used to before EA's acquisition. EA has largely helped maintain the studio.
Now regarding Mark Darrah's departure from BioWare, Mark and Casey Hudson did not coordinate on the departure in December 2020. They were timing things that lined up for both of them to resign. At the time for Mark, it was frustrating. Dragon Age 4 was getting into a primary driving position for BioWare. Mark didn't think that there was anything corporate-related that triggered him to leave. However, he is unsure about Casey's reasoning for his departure.
For those wanting BioWare to return to their glory days, Mark doesn't think that the spirit of classic BioWare is gone from the studio. He thinks it's still there. The thing that makes a BioWare game special are the characters. There is still a pedigree for future BioWare games to have fantastic characters. Now, this is where it gets juicy. In relation to Jeff Grubb's report that Dragon Age 4 is in very good shape, Mark thinks that time-wise, this would make sense that Dragon Age 4 is reportedly in very good shape at the moment. The team would've needed to adapt. Even when Mark Darrah was at the studio in 2020, the team was still expecting a 2023 release window. And Mark thinks that this is still very plausible. Mark thinks that if the team has been able to increase their completion urgency, and bring things to further phases earlier, they could be in really good shape. There was apparently stuff that was getting there when Mark was at the studio over a year ago. If BioWare has been stable enough to keep that stuff, then they probably have a really good foundation to build upon. Mark thinks that they have probably kept those things that were nearing completion when he left. Potentially, for 18 months out of a release window, Mark thinks that BioWare right now has probably done more than they have ever done before on a previous BioWare project. With a tighter core, it will let them go faster. Ultimately, if the team has adapted Mark thinks the team should be in significantly better shape going forward.
The interviewer said that he feels that there is a sentiment online, and in any space really, that BioWare really needs to pull off a win with the next Dragon Age game. He asked Mark what he thinks about this. And regarding this "do-or-die" speculation, Mark said that in a post-Anthem world he thinks that there is some truth to this "do-or-die" sentiment, Dragon Age 4 being the 'end all'. He's not sure if EA would shut down BioWare, but he thinks that retaining BioWare's reputation is more important. If BioWare is making quality and getting people excited, that gives them leeway with EA. And Mark believes that Dragon Age 4 needs to be a good game. But he also thinks that EA knows that now too. He thinks that EA recognizes the blame that they've had in the past for previous mistakes, with Anthem, and with Andromeda. The success of the single-player Star Wars game Jedi: Fallen Order has also changed perceptions internally at EA hugely as well.
On Mark's final exit blog that was posted on BioWare's website, the interviewer asked Mark how much of that was true and did he actually share his final sentiments that this game is in very good hands at the moment. Mark said that if it is on the BioWare website, it has gone through somebody to approve a message, but Mark does believe what he wrote went out in the BioWare Blog post in December. He believes that at the core the DA team remains strong. There are definitely people on this team who know how to make a great game, they know the IP and he thinks that they are well-positioned to do this."
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luketrevelyan
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Post by luketrevelyan on Mar 10, 2022 15:07:05 GMT
Concerning EA and BioWare's relationship, Mark doesn't think that EA knows/knew what BioWare is, considering the bouncing back and forth of the next Dragon Age game. Shifting between a single player to a live service back to a single player has largely been EA's decision. And there was a huge pressure for Inquisition and Mass Effect: Andromeda to be on the Frostbite engine by EA. In fact, it wasn't even any pressure. Using the Frostbite engine was essentially mandated by EA. BioWare had no other choice. On the other hand, with EA's management over BioWare, BioWare hasn't slipped as much as it used to before EA's acquisition. EA has largely helped maintain the studio. This seems to be the most direct confirmation we've had that these decisions were coming from EA, not BioWare. Frustrating to hear EA not understanding BioWare but hopefully they've finally kind of figured that out. I wonder what Mark would've done if Frostbite wasn't mandated? I got the impression the old engine wasn't really going to work going forward.
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 10, 2022 16:53:08 GMT
I wonder what Mark would've done if Frostbite wasn't mandated? I got the impression the old engine wasn't really going to work going forward. I know they were considering Unreal, but licencing fees get expensive for high selling games. So I can understand why Frostbite could look attractive by comparison. And yeah, their old engine just wasn't going to cut it after DA2. As Mark put it, it was being held together by binder twine and dreams at the end. 😅
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Post by necrowaif on Mar 10, 2022 18:41:27 GMT
BioWare @biowareShould you find yourself in need of assistance, I would gladly render it. By Matchmamori www.instagram.com/matchamori/#dragonageart #fenris #dragonage
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Post by colfoley on Mar 10, 2022 20:37:33 GMT
That the main character will get to go to each country on the map for a reason that connects overall to the hunt for the Dread Wolf or the Qunari Invasion. I do wonder what will be the original starting point for our PC. Will defeating the Dread Wolf be the driving factor from early on in the game or will we only discover the danger he presents as a result of getting involved in other plots that turn out to be connected with him? T o be hunting for the Dread Wolf from the outset would mean us being closely connected with the Shadow Inquisition, whereas if it only becomes apparent later, that could be the point at which we make contact. In terms of your suggestion of being sent to various countries/zones this could fit with either scenario. I think that when it comes to the Dread Wolf plot, there is likely to be a necessity to visit numerous locations both to discover the means of stopping him but also possibly find an alternative plan for saving the world, assuming that it is not as simple as he previously made it out to be. In other words, he is not taking his action simply because he doesn't like the way the modern world turned out but because he knows it is doomed either way but if he takes his action then something can be salvaged from the ruins. Following these twin lines of enquiry could well involve travelling to multiple locations both on the surface and in the Deep Roads. Then on arrival in those locations, rather as in DAO, there may be sub-plots we could get involved in that may or may not have any bearing on the overall success of our mission but could supply us with helpful assets that will assist but are not necessarily essential to it. What I think most people here wish to avoid is the trudging around huge open worlds with just random encounters to break the monotony. The overall narrative of the Hissing Wastes was actually quite interesting: Going to multiple locations and finding clues to what had happened with the dwarven enclave in the past. Nevertheless, it was something that seemed an indulgence when my main focus should have been fighting Corypheus. Admittedly, there were Venatori in the location, who appeared to be searching for something that could be useful to them but I was never clear if this was the item at the end of the quest in the dwarven ruins or why they thought that was the case. What I found tedious was the enormous expanses I had to cross in order to do this. Even on horseback it took long enough but if I stayed on foot, in the hope that my companions might engage in dialogue, it was really frustrating, particular as the random critters only decided to attack me immediately after someone decided to get chatting. I then had the choice of breaking it off and likely never hearing it again or ignoring the creature trying to eat me until I had got the full conversation. I don't see that as a given. The Shadow Inquisition is not the only one who is aware of the Dread Wolf in the first place. Given his story in Tevinter Nights I find it likely that the Tevinter Sicari are aware...or at least given their nature since the Ben Hassrath are aware of him given what we know from Tevinter Nights. And we know the Tevinter Imperium is aware of him thanks to Dorian, whether they choose to do anything about it or not. And from there I think the Antaam is aware of him, as well as the Carta and Neverrans now that I am thinking about it, the Orlesian Intelligence network as well. Which pretty much only leaves the Crows, Wardens, and Lords of Fortune. The main thrust of DA 4 will likely involve such organizations being unaware or underestimating his true power and intentions. And even if this is not the case as I also postulated earlier we may start off as a member of an organization but early in the game something might happen that will cause us to go rogue from said organization relating to something we believe the Dread Wolf did to us which will just kick start the rest of the plot. In Jackdaw's most recent DA video, he covers an interview Mark did with Last Stand Media, touching on DA4, BioWare, and EA. A kindly DA fan provided this transcript of that segment! "Mark Darrah was recently interviewed on a Last Stand Media podcast. It was recorded just before Executive Producer Christian Dailey departed the studio. I'm pretty sure it was recorded on the day that this news was announced on the BioWare Blog, so do bear that in mind when Mark is talking about Dragon Age 4 here. On the podcast, Mark talked about games industry crunch conditions, Anthem's rocky development, Mass Effect: Andromeda, DA2's backlash, and insights on the next Dragon Age. Mark discussed something that BioWare has been struggling with over the years. BioWare is used to small teams back in the early days, and now they have big teams. They used to have a really good process that was good for around 100-200 team members. But since those teams have grown beyond 200 team members, BioWare has struggled to develop and adapt to new processes. This has been a huge challenge for the studio over the years and they've begun to learn to adapt to those larger teams, overcoming this difficulty. Concerning EA and BioWare's relationship, Mark doesn't think that EA knows/knew what BioWare is, considering the bouncing back and forth of the next Dragon Age game. Shifting between a single player to a live service back to a single player has largely been EA's decision. And there was a huge pressure for Inquisition and Mass Effect: Andromeda to be on the Frostbite engine by EA. In fact, it wasn't even any pressure. Using the Frostbite engine was essentially mandated by EA. BioWare had no other choice. On the other hand, with EA's management over BioWare, BioWare hasn't slipped as much as it used to before EA's acquisition. EA has largely helped maintain the studio. Now regarding Mark Darrah's departure from BioWare, Mark and Casey Hudson did not coordinate on the departure in December 2020. They were timing things that lined up for both of them to resign. At the time for Mark, it was frustrating. Dragon Age 4 was getting into a primary driving position for BioWare. Mark didn't think that there was anything corporate-related that triggered him to leave. However, he is unsure about Casey's reasoning for his departure. For those wanting BioWare to return to their glory days, Mark doesn't think that the spirit of classic BioWare is gone from the studio. He thinks it's still there. The thing that makes a BioWare game special are the characters. There is still a pedigree for future BioWare games to have fantastic characters. Now, this is where it gets juicy. In relation to Jeff Grubb's report that Dragon Age 4 is in very good shape, Mark thinks that time-wise, this would make sense that Dragon Age 4 is reportedly in very good shape at the moment. The team would've needed to adapt. Even when Mark Darrah was at the studio in 2020, the team was still expecting a 2023 release window. And Mark thinks that this is still very plausible. Mark thinks that if the team has been able to increase their completion urgency, and bring things to further phases earlier, they could be in really good shape. There was apparently stuff that was getting there when Mark was at the studio over a year ago. If BioWare has been stable enough to keep that stuff, then they probably have a really good foundation to build upon. Mark thinks that they have probably kept those things that were nearing completion when he left. Potentially, for 18 months out of a release window, Mark thinks that BioWare right now has probably done more than they have ever done before on a previous BioWare project. With a tighter core, it will let them go faster. Ultimately, if the team has adapted Mark thinks the team should be in significantly better shape going forward. The interviewer said that he feels that there is a sentiment online, and in any space really, that BioWare really needs to pull off a win with the next Dragon Age game. He asked Mark what he thinks about this. And regarding this "do-or-die" speculation, Mark said that in a post-Anthem world he thinks that there is some truth to this "do-or-die" sentiment, Dragon Age 4 being the 'end all'. He's not sure if EA would shut down BioWare, but he thinks that retaining BioWare's reputation is more important. If BioWare is making quality and getting people excited, that gives them leeway with EA. And Mark believes that Dragon Age 4 needs to be a good game. But he also thinks that EA knows that now too. He thinks that EA recognizes the blame that they've had in the past for previous mistakes, with Anthem, and with Andromeda. The success of the single-player Star Wars game Jedi: Fallen Order has also changed perceptions internally at EA hugely as well. On Mark's final exit blog that was posted on BioWare's website, the interviewer asked Mark how much of that was true and did he actually share his final sentiments that this game is in very good hands at the moment. Mark said that if it is on the BioWare website, it has gone through somebody to approve a message, but Mark does believe what he wrote went out in the BioWare Blog post in December. He believes that at the core the DA team remains strong. There are definitely people on this team who know how to make a great game, they know the IP and he thinks that they are well-positioned to do this." As much as I do like Jackdaw and well he is the only reporting out there sometimes it is annoying listening to his anti Live Service crusade that so many seem to also be off on. I was just watching Darrah's analysis of Dragon Age Origins and its dev proccesses that it went through and the lessons learned, and he mentioned 'live service' like 5 times. In relation to 'Dragon Age Origins live service' when talking about its post expansion content like Awakening. Not to say that DA 4 wouldn't have been different but what seems to have changed is the MP and not the LS components, they are two different things.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2022 23:45:02 GMT
The anti-live service "crusade" is understandable, if a little misguided.
The fact that it is a new term supposed to replace/supplant terms used to describe some things that were labeled differently when released is part of this.
The negative association, I think, is with the potential for "Live Service" or "GAAS" as excuses for releasing unfinished/broken product that will be patched (or not, see Anthem). The other big one is that people associate LS with MTX, which isn't a correct conclusion. You cannot have MTX without LS, but you can have LS without (or with minimal/tastefully done) MTX.
It is all ultimately in how it's used.
"If this were to get into the wrong hands...."
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2022 0:16:22 GMT
The anti-live service "crusade" is understandable, if a little misguided. The fact that it is a new term supposed to replace/supplant terms used to describe some things that were labeled differently when released is part of this. The negative association, I think, is with the potential for "Live Service" or "GAAS" as excuses for releasing unfinished/broken product that will be patched (or not, see Anthem). The other big one is that people associate LS with MTX, which isn't a correct conclusion. You cannot have MTX without LS, but you can have LS without (or with minimal/tastefully done) MTX. It is all ultimately in how it's used. "If this were to get into the wrong hands...." 1. I do wonder how 'new' the term actually is, because if they were using it in house even during Origins development well that was twenty years ago. I just think the public's awareness of the phenmnon is what is new. 2. While Anthem and FO 76 seem to be the tragic examples that fell on the wrong side of this equation...I think this is the idea behind the whole formula is to release any kind of content long term past the release date. The trick then is to make the player think that the game on launch was worth whatever the initial price point was for the game in terms of content or completion. It is fine to have more expansions on content after launch. It is fine to dangle the occasional secondary plot lines to pay it forward. But main plot lines should be resolved within the confines of initial release. or as I prefer to think of it 'season 1.' A lot of this stuff can be solved if the industry started looking at TV shows then anything else.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 0:33:44 GMT
1. I do wonder how 'new' the term actually is, because if they were using it in house even during Origins development well that was twenty years ago. I just think the public's awareness of the phenmnon is what is new. 2. While Anthem and FO 76 seem to be the tragic examples that fell on the wrong side of this equation...I think this is the idea behind the whole formula is to release any kind of content long term past the release date. The trick then is to make the player think that the game on launch was worth whatever the initial price point was for the game in terms of content or completion. It is fine to have more expansions on content after launch. It is fine to dangle the occasional secondary plot lines to pay it forward. But main plot lines should be resolved within the confines of initial release. or as I prefer to think of it 'season 1.' A lot of this stuff can be solved if the industry started looking at TV shows then anything else. 1. We started talking about LS here around the release of DAI, iirc. How long it was used internally is irrelevant to the discussion. 2. Interesting points. However, I don't think the episodic TV concept works in gaming. It is being tried though, to varying success. It is telling that there is a "trick" involved. Games without LS had one trick - be good, or die in anonymous shame. This is my personal issue in a nutshell - don't trick me. Just make something good. If it is good, I'll buy more stuff.
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Post by githcheater on Mar 11, 2022 1:59:20 GMT
The anti-live service "crusade" is understandable, if a little misguided. The fact that it is a new term supposed to replace/supplant terms used to describe some things that were labeled differently when released is part of this. The negative association, I think, is with the potential for "Live Service" or "GAAS" as excuses for releasing unfinished/broken product that will be patched (or not, see Anthem). The other big one is that people associate LS with MTX, which isn't a correct conclusion. You cannot have MTX without LS, but you can have LS without (or with minimal/tastefully done) MTX. It is all ultimately in how it's used. "If this were to get into the wrong hands...." ... And it might be in the wrong hands if EA is as EA does ... insist on MTX to remove grindiness:
Purchase inventory enlargers to reduce inventory tetris.
Purchase a Horse (or Griffon) to quickly traipse back and forth across the map between quests.
Purchase x-ray specs to see secret doors to allow shortcuts to avoid combat or get to quest destinations quicker.
Purchase Horse (or Griffon) armor so as to not have your "instant" travel occasionally interrupted by random monsters.
Purchase a "shovel" to easily pick up inventory instead of picking up items one at a time.
Purchase a NPC assistant (Josephine?) to manage/streamline inventory acquisition (free herbs) or maintence (what to drop) or divesture (what to sell).
Purchase item packs to make harder difficulties easier.
Etc ...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 2:12:22 GMT
^^^ Thankfully, I believe the new template is Jedi:FO. Single-player is ok, mtx is not mandatory.
Still, your point is already given. No pre-orders for me, twiddle dee dee!
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2022 3:05:19 GMT
If EA wants to remove 'grindiness' by including optional MTXs then all the more power to them. I doubt I will partake and buy them personally but if that floats your boat then who am I to say no?
Especially considering these companies who do such things do tend to make them optional in the first place. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel its important. None of the games I have played that have had things like experience boosters or things of that nature felt especially grindy to me. Though the only game I can think of which tried some of Glitchcheaters more radical suggestions was the Horizon series, at least Zero Dawn.
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Post by githcheater on Mar 11, 2022 4:11:57 GMT
Who is Glitch?
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Post by river82 on Mar 11, 2022 4:16:45 GMT
However, I don't think the episodic TV concept works in gaming. You could raise an argument that MMOs are like tv shows with new episodes of content spewed out regularly. You could also make an argument that MMOs are extraordinarily expensive to make and very few of them get made and succeed. Games like Genshin could also be called episodic like a TV show, it was also said early on to cost 200 million a year to maintain and generate content for, and the budget could have only increased by then. You could do it the old fashion way like TellTales and release them as standalone games but that always runs the risk of collapsing half way through a "season". And also if you're planning a game as a "series" with "seasons" then a lot of work could be done for nought if for some reason the initial game doesn't get off the ground, either through collapsing in development or not getting funded or something else (not uncommon) because you have a whole series worth of work just collapsing. It's just much more efficient to plan for single release games TBH.
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Post by river82 on Mar 11, 2022 4:32:33 GMT
If EA wants to remove 'grindiness' by including optional MTXs then all the more power to them. I doubt I will partake and buy them personally but if that floats your boat then who am I to say no? Especially considering these companies who do such things do tend to make them optional in the first place. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel its important. None of the games I have played that have had things like experience boosters or things of that nature felt especially grindy to me. Though the only game I can think of which tried some of Glitchcheaters more radical suggestions was the Horizon series, at least Zero Dawn. What FTP companies tend to do is insert (grind) walls arbitrarily into the game (creating a problem) which they then sell you a solution for (predatory monetisation). It's a common theme with FTP mobile games. So when people get annoyed by cash shops overcoming grindiness, it's because they've seen companies abuse this idea very very badly. That tends to not happen often with AAA games you actually have to pay full price for though and gamers get very very angry when it does. So I doubt Bioware would go down this road for Dragon Age 4. But companies keep getting ideas from the mobile space, probably because mobile games are making an absolute killing.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2022 4:56:26 GMT
feck i did it agai. I always misread your name. Sorry.
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Mar 11, 2022 5:05:51 GMT
I do wonder what will be the original starting point for our PC. Will defeating the Dread Wolf be the driving factor from early on in the game or will we only discover the danger he presents as a result of getting involved in other plots that turn out to be connected with him? To be hunting for the Dread Wolf from the outset would mean us being closely connected with the Shadow Inquisition, whereas if it only becomes apparent later, that could be the point at which we make contact. I want it to start. I want Solas in the prologue doing what he does best (messing things up) and I want Varric to come in and do what he does best (tell us a story), and then I want him to give me his contacts and let me go explore Northern Thedas to gather dirt on The Dread Wolf. Varric falls in love with me The End.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Mar 11, 2022 5:37:37 GMT
If EA wants to remove 'grindiness' by including optional MTXs then all the more power to them. I doubt I will partake and buy them personally but if that floats your boat then who am I to say no? Especially considering these companies who do such things do tend to make them optional in the first place. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel its important. None of the games I have played that have had things like experience boosters or things of that nature felt especially grindy to me. Though the only game I can think of which tried some of Glitchcheaters more radical suggestions was the Horizon series, at least Zero Dawn. No, it's not actually optional. By including passes for grind it means that EA already knows its game is unfun and tedious, they PURPOSEFULLY make the experience to be skipped. "Give us money to have access to a game to play, then pay us more money so you don't have to play it." Such a wonderful world we live in. Any game that does this was made to waste your time, not to entertain you.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2022 6:56:55 GMT
If EA wants to remove 'grindiness' by including optional MTXs then all the more power to them. I doubt I will partake and buy them personally but if that floats your boat then who am I to say no? Especially considering these companies who do such things do tend to make them optional in the first place. Sorry for the emphasis but I feel its important. None of the games I have played that have had things like experience boosters or things of that nature felt especially grindy to me. Though the only game I can think of which tried some of Glitchcheaters more radical suggestions was the Horizon series, at least Zero Dawn. No, it's not actually optional. By including passes for grind it means that EA already knows its game is unfun and tedious, they PURPOSEFULLY make the experience to be skipped. "Give us money to have access to a game to play, then pay us more money so you don't have to play it." Such a wonderful world we live in. Any game that does this was made to waste your time, not to entertain you. I never found this logic, especially this extremly put, to be that compelling. Nor have I found it true in a personal sense. All the games I have played with these style of MTXs (either XP booster or material packs for crafting) either aren't grindy...like at all. So fun the grind is irrelevant. Got rid of their grind because of their live service approach. Or are stuffed so full of content while there is grind it ultimatley becomes quite irrelevant. Now this is only in the SP realm as a few of the MP live service games I've played miss the mark on these aspects but in general modern video games are starting to figure out what people find grindy, what they don't and are kind of working to eleminate them. At least so much that I don't find SP games without MTXs to be anymore or less grindy in the general scheme of things. From a logical standpoint this really makes zero sense at all. Games and game companies first obligation is to create entertaining games. If the player isn't entertained, if their time is 'wasted' then they aren't going to stick around to enjoy all the post launch content nevermind partake in the MTXs. And while I cannot imagine a good reason for utilizing and buying such MTXs I can imagine there may be some value for someone who is really enjoying the game but yet is really busy with something in life which makes their playing time a bit limited. Single parent, busy work schedule, that sort of thing, so they are more apt to maybe want to power through it. Now if a player dosen't find a particular game entertaining which includes MTXs then this does not invalidate the above, it just means that the player did not personally enjoy the mechanics.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 11, 2022 8:44:48 GMT
I don't see that as a given. The Shadow Inquisition is not the only one who is aware of the Dread Wolf in the first place. Others are aware but, again according to Tevinter Nights, the Shadow Inquisition are the ones who are actively doing something about it and with whom you can have a connection as a fairly neutral character. It is true the Sicari might be taking an interest, although their attentions are more likely to be focused on fighting the Antaam, but that is very much bound up with Tevinter politics. That could explain the statement in the video about doing something when those in charge are ignoring it and a Sicari connection could have some interesting backstory aspects to it, bearing in mind that were told in Tevinter Nights that they keep their operatives loyal by holding their families to ransom, so I personally wouldn't mind this as a starting point as it does allow for you to be working for Tevinter under duress rather than from patriotic, pro-Tevinter sentiments. However, it would likely require you to have rather more knowledge of Tevinter than would be practicable for a PC. The Ben'Hassrath/Ariqun, as opposed to the Antaam, are a group that are taking a particular interest in Solas' activities and Charter did say they know more than most about his activities. However, to be involved with them from the beginning would require the PC to be directly connected with the Qun, which many people would object to. The Ben'Hassrath would not be using inexperienced new operatives for such an important project. In fact, we see from Tevinter Nights that the Rasaan, the Ariqun in waiting, is directly involved, which is very high level, and she seems to have left the side of the Arishok to do so (although it is possible she either did this with his blessing or they had a falling out over his invasion of mainland Tevinter). So I'm fairly certain we would not start off connected with them but may well need to seek them out in order to persuade them to share information. The Carta only seemed to be passing on information, likely at the request of Varric, but did not seem overly committed to the hunt for Solas. Likewise, whilst the Mortalitasi may be involved as a group, to be linked with them from the beginning would really only make sense for a mage. Unless they are opting for origin stories from a variety of backgrounds, I would see them as another likely contact as we progress through the game. I want Varric to come in and do what he does best (tell us a story), and then I want him to give me his contacts and let me go explore Northern Thedas to gather dirt on The Dread Wolf. We know from Tevinter Nights that Varric does seem to be a sort of centralised information gathering point for dealing with Solas. It is where Gatt sends people who might want to help and clearly, despite the absence of the Ben'Hassrath in the Dread Wolf Take You, they are in contact with the Shadow Inquisition. It is possible that our introduction to the hunt for Solas will begin in similar fashion to Half Up Front. Our character is hired to do something that seems completely unrelated but this ends up being connected with him and from there we make contact with Varric, who either sets us various tasks to do or at least gives us the starting point for our journey. I have to admit that in this scenario, being a Lord of Fortune at the outset, would make sense. Someone could have commissioned us to recover an artifact and our success is either prevented by an agent of Solas or it turns out they were the group we were indirectly working for and we are intercepted by one of the groups opposing him. Now we are involved.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2022 10:17:58 GMT
From a logical standpoint this really makes zero sense at all. Games and game companies first obligation is to create entertaining games. If the player isn't entertained, if their time is 'wasted' then they aren't going to stick around to enjoy all the post launch content nevermind partake in the MTXs. And while I cannot imagine a good reason for utilizing and buying such MTXs I can imagine there may be some value for someone who is really enjoying the game but yet is really busy with something in life which makes their playing time a bit limited. Single parent, busy work schedule, that sort of thing, so they are more apt to maybe want to power through it. Now if a player dosen't find a particular game entertaining which includes MTXs then this does not invalidate the above, it just means that the player did not personally enjoy the mechanics. This is all valid. For some genres. Maybe only two, MMORPG and Coop Looter/Shooter. Your point stands for those genres. It fails miserably for all others. There is no need, whatsoever, for a "time saver" in a SP game that you can save and quit at will. MTX should be limited to skins, which should be entirely cosmetic. If someone wants a time saver for their SP game, they should consider not playing games. It will save a ton of time.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2022 10:44:54 GMT
I don't see that as a given. The Shadow Inquisition is not the only one who is aware of the Dread Wolf in the first place. Others are aware but, again according to Tevinter Nights, the Shadow Inquisition are the ones who are actively doing something about it and with whom you can have a connection as a fairly neutral character. It is true the Sicari might be taking an interest, although their attentions are more likely to be focused on fighting the Antaam, but that is very much bound up with Tevinter politics. That could explain the statement in the video about doing something when those in charge are ignoring it and a Sicari connection could have some interesting backstory aspects to it, bearing in mind that were told in Tevinter Nights that they keep their operatives loyal by holding their families to ransom, so I personally wouldn't mind this as a starting point as it does allow for you to be working for Tevinter under duress rather than from patriotic, pro-Tevinter sentiments. However, it would likely require you to have rather more knowledge of Tevinter than would be practicable for a PC. The Ben'Hassrath/Ariqun, as opposed to the Antaam, are a group that are taking a particular interest in Solas' activities and Charter did say they know more than most about his activities. However, to be involved with them from the beginning would require the PC to be directly connected with the Qun, which many people would object to. The Ben'Hassrath would not be using inexperienced new operatives for such an important project. In fact, we see from Tevinter Nights that the Rasaan, the Ariqun in waiting, is directly involved, which is very high level, and she seems to have left the side of the Arishok to do so (although it is possible she either did this with his blessing or they had a falling out over his invasion of mainland Tevinter). So I'm fairly certain we would not start off connected with them but may well need to seek them out in order to persuade them to share information. The Carta only seemed to be passing on information, likely at the request of Varric, but did not seem overly committed to the hunt for Solas. Likewise, whilst the Mortalitasi may be involved as a group, to be linked with them from the beginning would really only make sense for a mage. Unless they are opting for origin stories from a variety of backgrounds, I would see them as another likely contact as we progress through the game. I want Varric to come in and do what he does best (tell us a story), and then I want him to give me his contacts and let me go explore Northern Thedas to gather dirt on The Dread Wolf. We know from Tevinter Nights that Varric does seem to be a sort of centralised information gathering point for dealing with Solas. It is where Gatt sends people who might want to help and clearly, despite the absence of the Ben'Hassrath in the Dread Wolf Take You, they are in contact with the Shadow Inquisition. It is possible that our introduction to the hunt for Solas will begin in similar fashion to Half Up Front. Our character is hired to do something that seems completely unrelated but this ends up being connected with him and from there we make contact with Varric, who either sets us various tasks to do or at least gives us the starting point for our journey. I have to admit that in this scenario, being a Lord of Fortune at the outset, would make sense. Someone could have commissioned us to recover an artifact and our success is either prevented by an agent of Solas or it turns out they were the group we were indirectly working for and we are intercepted by one of the groups opposing him. Now we are involved. You miss my point: I wasn't suggesting this in terms of Origins per se, though that could be a nice side benefit, merely demonstrating that a player's main line involvement does not have to be with the Shadow Inquisition...at the start. Information from Solas is out there, a wide variety of organizations has some knowledge of him so it is not beyond the realm of possibility that a new PC would come into contact with that information for them or get involved in their own way which would kick start involvement into the larger plot. From a logical standpoint this really makes zero sense at all. Games and game companies first obligation is to create entertaining games. If the player isn't entertained, if their time is 'wasted' then they aren't going to stick around to enjoy all the post launch content nevermind partake in the MTXs. And while I cannot imagine a good reason for utilizing and buying such MTXs I can imagine there may be some value for someone who is really enjoying the game but yet is really busy with something in life which makes their playing time a bit limited. Single parent, busy work schedule, that sort of thing, so they are more apt to maybe want to power through it. Now if a player dosen't find a particular game entertaining which includes MTXs then this does not invalidate the above, it just means that the player did not personally enjoy the mechanics. This is all valid. For some genres. Maybe only two, MMORPG and Coop Looter/Shooter. Your point stands for those genres. It fails miserably for all others. There is no need, whatsoever, for a "time saver" in a SP game that you can save and quit at will. MTX should be limited to skins, which should be entirely cosmetic. If someone wants a time saver for their SP game, they should consider not playing games. It will save a ton of time. OK. Can you give me a compelling reason for not including 'time savers' in SP games without resorting to really generalized and arrogant statements?
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Post by Grog Muffins on Mar 11, 2022 12:07:48 GMT
And while I cannot imagine a good reason for utilizing and buying such MTXs I can imagine there may be some value for someone who is really enjoying the game but yet is really busy with something in life which makes their playing time a bit limited. Single parent, busy work schedule, that sort of thing, so they are more apt to maybe want to power through it. This doesn't really make sense. How can you enjoy a game but not want to play through it? If you enjoy a game, why would you need to force yourself through it or find alternative ways of enjoyment that are not part of that game's DNA? No matter how much time you have to play, if you like the experience, it can even take you 2 years to play a game and you'll still play it - because the point is to enjoy playing it. Not wanting to do it is maybe because the mechanics of leveling and progressing aren't implemented well? Maybe because they were made like that to begin with? To keep you going with the game a long time by design, not because you have limited time with it, and if you don't want to go with it a long time, either give up on it or shell out the cash to make it go faster? Like mobile games? That's the very issue and it's not a compelling argument. Just because you're the kind of person not bothered by this sort of thing, doesn't not make it an issue. This is all valid. For some genres. Maybe only two, MMORPG and Coop Looter/Shooter. Your point stands for those genres. It fails miserably for all others. There is no need, whatsoever, for a "time saver" in a SP game that you can save and quit at will. MTX should be limited to skins, which should be entirely cosmetic. If someone wants a time saver for their SP game, they should consider not playing games. It will save a ton of time. OK. Can you give me a compelling reason for not including 'time savers' in SP games without resorting to really generalized and arrogant statements? The point of a singleplayer game is to be entertaining and offer an enjoyable experience. You go through the game and do the story as it is presented to you. Then, imagine, as you're going for the next chapter of the story, it all comes to a screeching halt because you're not high level enough for that next bit of content, even though you did everything the game presented to you to do from a narrative perspective, so you're forced to grind. Didn't Assassin's Creed Odyssey do this? Force you to grind out levels periodically, stopping your flow of the story, because the enemies could oneshot you? That is not compelling or fun, and no amount of time savers excuses that kind of game design, just to pad out your "engagement time" with it.
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 11, 2022 13:39:51 GMT
The anti-live service "crusade" is understandable, if a little misguided. The fact that it is a new term supposed to replace/supplant terms used to describe some things that were labeled differently when released is part of this. The negative association, I think, is with the potential for "Live Service" or "GAAS" as excuses for releasing unfinished/broken product that will be patched (or not, see Anthem). The other big one is that people associate LS with MTX, which isn't a correct conclusion. You cannot have MTX without LS, but you can have LS without (or with minimal/tastefully done) MTX. It is all ultimately in how it's used. "If this were to get into the wrong hands...." ... And it might be in the wrong hands if EA is as EA does ... insist on MTX to remove grindiness:
Purchase inventory enlargers to reduce inventory tetris.
Purchase a Horse (or Griffon) to quickly traipse back and forth across the map between quests.
Purchase x-ray specs to see secret doors to allow shortcuts to avoid combat or get to quest destinations quicker.
Purchase Horse (or Griffon) armor so as to not have your "instant" travel occasionally interrupted by random monsters.
Purchase a "shovel" to easily pick up inventory instead of picking up items one at a time.
Purchase a NPC assistant (Josephine?) to manage/streamline inventory acquisition (free herbs) or maintence (what to drop) or divesture (what to sell).
Purchase item packs to make harder difficulties easier.
Etc ...
So make a game like Ubisoft? All this hand wringing I don't fully understand instead of thinking at everything that EA could do because its the worst possible thing in your imagination look at what they have done since the time of Jedi: Fallen Order. Even Anthem didn't have anything that you mention here it was just MTX for cosmetics. People seem to want to vilify EA and everything they might do, but ignore the other publishers and developers when they are already doing those "worst case" situations. Ubisoft has had some variation of those things with their "time savers" packs going to at least the time of Unity, but you never see all the headlines or other outrage about them being in those games. Even when it does happen there is no consistency such as with Odyssey Ubisoft had a $10 MTX to give +50% experience and gold, but since they waited until a month or two post launch with Valhalla before adding them nobody really paid any attention to it. I didn't see the big articles decrying how evil Ubisoft was because they did such an insidious feature from reviewers before adding it into the game to take money from players.
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Post by githcheater on Mar 11, 2022 14:17:59 GMT
feck i did it agai. I always misread your name. Sorry. LOL
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