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Post by Sartoz on Mar 18, 2022 23:46:45 GMT
I'm gonna be honest, I don't care that much for mounts except for the ways I could use them to "cheat" my way across the map by avoiding fall damage. I wouldn't be terribly upset if they were removed completely, I'm kinda hoping we will be spending most of our time in city landscapes anyway this time around so the need for a steed won't be that great.
Well, this is supposed to be Dragon Age with bloody dragons in the game not steeds. I'm really, realy un-interested in cavalry combat. Now, gryphons, if Bio ever introduced them is a better choice. Still, I can't see Wardens fighting with gryphons. I mean, gryphons are in the Lore but besides faster travel the birds have limited use, imo
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 18, 2022 23:49:03 GMT
elle tchi 💙💛 | 🔜 GDC @elenatchii we have a super cool tech anim thing at work and my favourite part is watching non-tech animators be in disbelief when we explain that "yes it's real, yes it works" i need to make a "trust us, it works" meme to post in slack ad-nauseam my amazing lead who made the cool thing is not on twitter but i shall sing his praises when we're allowed to talk about it
So, more realistic body animations? Is this in game or just cinematics?
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 18, 2022 23:57:35 GMT
The issue I found I was having with mounts in Inquisition is that due to their design and implementation gave me the feeling I was moving slower with them then when I was walking. If there are mounts in a single player game anymore I am left to wonder if they are there because there is just so much stuff that can be avoided in the game and if so why didn't they try and make the game a more streamlined experience.
Mounts are a time sink.... offer nothing other than slowing game pacing. As long as players are not forced to use them I'm fine but wish that the dev's efforts was focused elsewere. So, I agree with you...
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Post by Heimdall on Mar 19, 2022 4:19:11 GMT
Adding my two cents to the mount discussion…
A lot of people like the idea of riding around on a cool looking mount, but it’s something that’s hard to make useful. If the world is big enough for them to be warranted, you probably also have a fast travel system that’s more convenient. Even for exploring a new area, you usually end up doing that on foot to more thoroughly explore in case you miss something.
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Post by river82 on Mar 19, 2022 4:20:35 GMT
I was thinking on the whole mount thing that they can implement in very small way is just use them for fast travel. Like once you open the map and you select a location to fast travel it goes back in, your horse pops up, and then the screen fades out as you 'travel' to your next destination on the horse. Yes this would be nice. But you also wouldn't even need the mounts, just add fast travel points, the mounts would just be an added immersion factor. IMO mounts are only needed for vast open world games like Skyrim, and open world games as in "I can see a mountain in the distance, I'll walk for 20 mins to get to it" and not the ones segmented into different maps/areas. Actually Genshin is a pretty large open world game like this and doesn't even need mounts just because there's regular teleportation points littered everywhere. ESO is segmented into smaller (large) maps but I guess mounts are needed because the teleportation points are few and far between. In the image below (Genshin) this portion of the map has (using a quick count) about 28 fast travel points on it so no mounts needed even though there's a big exploration factor in Genshin. i.imgur.com/vB91szi.pngBreath of the Wild has 136 shrines/fast travel points. Some people consider there to be too many and it takes away from exploration but it's convenient. The game has horses as well but with so many teleports there probably isn't a need for them i.imgur.com/v03RxZp.jpgIf mounts are a problem just add more fast travel points
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Post by Rascoth on Mar 19, 2022 14:11:11 GMT
In the image below (Genshin) this portion of the map has (using a quick count) about 28 fast travel points on it so no mounts needed even though there's a big exploration factor in Genshin. i.imgur.com/vB91szi.pngTo add to this: there's actually more than 28 fast travel points in Mondstadt area alone (the map above), plus you can craft gadget that let's you place one teleport waypoint wherever you want, so if there's a particular place you want to farm but doesn't have teleport point nearby, you just set up one yourself. And even if it might feel like a lot, I feel like it's good balance. Less would hinder exploration (especially considering that Genshin's map is getting bigger and bigger). There's still a lot of traveling left to do even with them (not to mention you first need to discover them to unlock them). Personally I prefer some fast travel points over mounts. Same was in BotW. I either traveled by foot or used ft point if location I was going to was too far.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 19, 2022 15:04:43 GMT
This is most certainly an unpopular take, but I personally dislike mounts, especially exotic ones, and barely used them in DAI.
I stuck with a horse and only used it after I had thoroughly explored an area and in The Hissing Wastes. I just walked everywhere else.
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 19, 2022 16:10:51 GMT
elle tchi 💙💛 | 🔜 GDC @elenatchii we have a super cool tech anim thing at work and my favourite part is watching non-tech animators be in disbelief when we explain that "yes it's real, yes it works" i need to make a "trust us, it works" meme to post in slack ad-nauseam my amazing lead who made the cool thing is not on twitter but i shall sing his praises when we're allowed to talk about it
So, more realistic body animations? Is this in game or just cinematics?
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Well, it's a tech animation achievement, and apparently it's impressive. So... maybe it's long hair that doesn't clip on armor/helmets? Something-something-combat? Next-gen destructible environments? Being able to hand something from one character to another. Realistic removal of clothing (this is BioWare... )
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2022 17:35:58 GMT
So, more realistic body animations? Is this in game or just cinematics?
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Well, it's a tech animation achievement, and apparently it's impressive. So... maybe it's long hair that doesn't clip on armor/helmets? Something-something-combat? Next-gen destructible environments? Being able to hand something from one character to another. Realistic removal of clothing (this is BioWare... ) Hair. Playing through the Witcher 1 right now. Having fun. Quite often, even with recommended fixes applied, Geraldo and Triss hair goes bananas. Then, I remember the splash screens, BioWare Aurora Engine. Curious what the award is about. Technical achievements can be pretty cool, or shoulder shrugging. Animations are big for immersion, or lack. I just imagined a "realistic undressing animation." It belongs in another thread in off-topic lol. Something something sweaters gravity. I gotta go.
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Post by The Elder King on Mar 20, 2022 10:52:31 GMT
I don't personally need DA4 to be the best game in terms of technical details (not that it'd hurt if it ranks on par with those), but I do think it's reasonable to expect improvements, not only overall (as DAI would have been released at least 9 years ago), but also on Bioware reducing, even slightly, the gap they had/have in this field in comparison to other companies. Unless issues in development lead to a vastly reduced CC like MEA, compared to what (putting aside the quality of hair/beard textures) we got in DAI, I think the DA4 CC should give us some good aumont of options. At least, I hope I can put a beard on my character.
In regards of mounts, as others might have said before, my big issue is that, given DA's party system, I don't like the feeling of companions disappearing as I ride mounts. I'd likely not use mounts if this issue isn't fixed.
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Post by Gilli on Mar 20, 2022 11:30:42 GMT
On the mount thing. ESO added companions some time ago. Those companions have banter (during combat, when you pick up something, when you enter cities etc) They also can ride mounts, they have a default mount, but you can asign a mount to them from your collection. Also, they still banter while on their mount.
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Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Beerfish on Mar 20, 2022 19:22:19 GMT
I don't even use horses half the time in games. They were not much faster than running in games like TW3.
As far as something like Griffons goes. They could pull it off. The one thing to me they got very right in Anthem was the flying around part which was very fun and worked well. (At least imo)
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Post by bierkrug on Mar 20, 2022 20:08:17 GMT
Besides that though, mounted combat in Elden Ring is quite perfect for me, love holding the sword out and slicing through enemies. DA Team, pls. Ah, but there's a problem with that: Elden Ring uses a single-player combat system, while Dragon Age is a party-based combat system. It's possible to animate one Player Character riding a horse into combat, but what about one PC plus three party members, each using their own distinctive fighting style? I suppose melee characters could jump off and rangers could do horse combat from a distance with arrows. With our main guy being able to ride in with a sword. Or at least let me pick flowers from horseback ;_;
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Post by colfoley on Mar 20, 2022 20:12:13 GMT
If one is worried about combat on horses from an animation perspective the easiest solution would probably be, to almost piggy back on the last idea, don't worry about it. Don't animate horse combat and don't even give the players the ability to use horses for combat and mounted warfare, just for travel. Either if the player is engaged in combat the horse just dissapears, or, the player is not attackable while on the back of a horse.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Mar 20, 2022 20:31:22 GMT
Or at least let me pick flowers from horseback I can take or leave mounted combat, but having to dismount to gather elfroot would get old so fast it might as well be on a beach in an M. Knight Shymalan film.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Mar 20, 2022 21:07:46 GMT
About the mounts, I never use them much, but I will say that catching and taming mounts in Breath of the Wild was one of my favorite activities. If something like that could be added as a mission to get mounts for your party, that might be interesting. Quick travel points are way more useful, but short mounted quests might be fun.
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Post by Rascoth on Mar 20, 2022 21:31:10 GMT
About the mounts, I never use them much, but I will say that catching and taming mounts in Breath of the Wild was one of my favorite activities. I'm still salty we couldn't register bear or stalhorse in stables
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Mar 20, 2022 21:35:07 GMT
I don't even use horses half the time in games. They were not much faster than running in games like TW3. At least Geralt would talk to Roach, and in that one quest, she could talk back.
If the only purpose of mounts in a game is faster travel, just give me more fast travel options instead. Mounts need some personality like the mabari in DAO and DA2, and a purpose beyond (supposed) utility. My DAI stable was always full but that was mostly just because I like collecting everything under the sun. I only did the race quest once.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Mar 20, 2022 21:39:09 GMT
About the mounts, I never use them much, but I will say that catching and taming mounts in Breath of the Wild was one of my favorite activities. I'm still salty we couldn't register bear or stalhorse in stables Right? It was very disappointing. It was fun catching them though. I figure it might be interesting to have timed quests where you catch a mount and race with it to open up new areas.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 21, 2022 9:30:27 GMT
If something like that could be added as a mission to get mounts for your party, that might be interesting. Quick travel points are way more useful, but short mounted quests might be fun. I agree that if acquiring mounts and their subsequent use could be tied into specific sub-quests then that would be interesting. I mean by this proper quests, not simply acquiring a horse and then having a series of timed races. So, for example, may be a certain enemy can only be defeated on horseback or a certain area can only be accessed if you are mounted (in order to reach that enemy or acquire some artifact). You would have to have the requisite number of mounts for your entire party to take part in the fight or travel to the area, even if they only showed the PC's mount during the actual travel. The problem, of course, is that would take up a lot of resources in implementing that part of the game and, if it wasn't essential to the main plot, might mean too much time and effort utilised for something that not everyone would want to do. Still, if it resulted in you gaining some item that would make the final confrontation with the main boss easier, that would at least be an incentive for people to take it.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 21, 2022 12:06:57 GMT
Mike Laidlaw, I believe, replied to a question (during the DA:I years) about developing player requests into the game and said that there is a cost to do so in terms of time, resources, and money that needs to be taken away from other work. So what is the benefit to Bio?
How does the steed, whatever the incarnation, benefit the game and/or Bio except to satisfy a player's wish? I briefly used one ( in DA:I ) just to try it out... briefly, 'cause I saw no advantage. Further the disappearance/reappearance of my team reminded me of DA:2 with the Carta.
Traveling through tha vast Tevinter area can be easily implemented with a fast travel mechanic as some up-posters explained. Horses are totally unnecessary and just lengthens DA4's development time. For God's sake, have we not waited enough?
Now, personally I would love to use a gryphon to travel through the sky and watch the terrain below. However, I confess to be biased, here, as I'm a Flight Simulator fan.
No matter how you split it, the might steed offers nothing unless it's a core game play mechanic. And, if that's the case, Dragon Age would be about the horse.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 21, 2022 13:11:47 GMT
Back to basics
Christian Dailey's submited a teasing concept art showing a novel bow. Add the plethora of other teasing concept art and we can be fairly certain that DA4 will have the mage, fighter, thief, ranger, rogue and maybe some underwater mechanics along with the return of the Wardens and the Qunari. No horses, btw.
DA4, then, will centre around these characters , red Lyrium and whater small god(s) seems appropriate to the story . But, what exactly will be the main story arc? Defeating Baldy? Will Tevinter politics interfere with our quest? Will we need to navigate though that cess pit to achieve our goal(s)?
Now, I love to confront a big bad horny as in DA2. Well, as long as there is some depth to the character. And, story wise/side quests add amusing situations with the NPCs, such as interplay between them or playing on a weakness/social strangeness of theirs (I'm thinking of Aveline's love pursuit). The Qunari society ought to be fertile pickings. A Qunari companion would be a laugh and please no BULL character type. So, to summarise, we have the serious story and the light comedy acts.
Further, concept artwork point to ruin exploration above ground or the Deep Roads. Unsure about the Wardens. Will they be a small cog in the story to add marketing spice?
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Post by nopersdeviv on Mar 21, 2022 13:37:21 GMT
If something like that could be added as a mission to get mounts for your party, that might be interesting. Quick travel points are way more useful, but short mounted quests might be fun. I agree that if acquiring mounts and their subsequent use could be tied into specific sub-quests then that would be interesting. I mean by this proper quests, not simply acquiring a horse and then having a series of timed races. So, for example, may be a certain enemy can only be defeated on horseback or a certain area can only be accessed if you are mounted (in order to reach that enemy or acquire some artifact). You would have to have the requisite number of mounts for your entire party to take part in the fight or travel to the area, even if they only showed the PC's mount during the actual travel. The problem, of course, is that would take up a lot of resources in implementing that part of the game and, if it wasn't essential to the main plot, might mean too much time and effort utilised for something that not everyone would want to do. Still, if it resulted in you gaining some item that would make the final confrontation with the main boss easier, that would at least be an incentive for people to take it. In DA:I you opened up travel points by setting up camps, if a main camp in an area has a stable, you could require that it needs to be opened by stabling a mount/mounts. Each stable master could send you on a quest for a certain mount that you have to catch and bring back for money, weapons, armor and gear. After the main camp is open, then you can open up other smaller camps the way you did in DA:I. Each area has a different type of mount, and the stables allow you to keep track of your collections. Every steed/mount is different and at a higher level, the gear you collect at the stables enables you to catch higher level animals. The main camps can also be used as an information point, a market for rare items and resources and a weapons/armor upgrade station.
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Post by nopersdeviv on Mar 21, 2022 13:46:23 GMT
Mike Laidlaw, I believe, replied to a question (during the DA:I years) about developing player requests into the game and said that there is a cost to do so in terms of time, resources, and money that needs to be taken away from other work. So what is the benefit to Bio?
How does the steed, whatever the incarnation, benefit the game and/or Bio except to satisfy a player's wish? I briefly used one ( in DA:I ) just to try it out... briefly, 'cause I saw no advantage. Further the disappearance/reappearance of my team reminded me of DA:2 with the Carta.
Traveling through tha vast Tevinter area can be easily implemented with a fast travel mechanic as some up-posters explained. Horses are totally unnecessary and just lengthens DA4's development time. For God's sake, have we not waited enough?
Now, personally I would love to use a gryphon to travel through the sky and watch the terrain below. However, I confess to be biased, here, as I'm a Flight Simulator fan.
No matter how you split it, the might steed offers nothing unless it's a core game play mechanic. And, if that's the case, Dragon Age would be about the horse.
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I admit, I have no idea what goes into the development of a game, and yeah, this far into it, having to add new mechanics and slow down production would not be a good thing. Not really worth it. But it could be a consideration for a future game.
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Ravenfeeder
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 846 Likes: 2,984
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Sept 28, 2024 12:59:28 GMT
2,984
Ravenfeeder
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ravenfeeder
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Ravenfeeder on Mar 21, 2022 14:04:04 GMT
Christian Dailey's submited a teasing concept art showing a novel bow. Your link comes back to this page, not whatever art you wanted to show.
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