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BioWare @biowareGet to know Benoit Houle, director of product development, in our latest BioWare Developer Story! blog.bioware.com/2022/05/03/developer-story-benoit-houle/Michael Gamble @gamblemikeI've had the pleasure of working with Benoit for over a decade. A great friend, and really dedicated to Dragon Age!
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Post by colfoley on May 3, 2022 23:30:35 GMT
BioWare @biowareGet to know Benoit Houle, director of product development, in our latest BioWare Developer Story! blog.bioware.com/2022/05/03/developer-story-benoit-houle/Michael Gamble @gamblemikeI've had the pleasure of working with Benoit for over a decade. A great friend, and really dedicated to Dragon Age! I was just thinking that it'd been a while since they did one of these.
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Post by themikefest on May 4, 2022 0:21:54 GMT
Look at t'soni. If I don't put any points into her talents, does that mean she isn't a biotic? And yes, I did that for one playthrough. Nope, because all asari are biotic from birth. Whereas with Ryder, you actually get dialogue that relates to them being biotic or not. For example during the Asari ark mission, when Cora experiences extreme pain from the device, Ryders dialogue changes depending on whether you have points in biotics (from Ryder asking Cora what’s wrong/ too experiencing the same discomfort.) Plus Jaal’s dialogue changing if your also a biotic. I'm referring to Shepard. The poster might be right for the little one, but with Shepard, there's already at least one point in biotics at the start of the game, is there not?
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Post by themikefest on May 4, 2022 0:30:11 GMT
Solas will end up having his head on a spike when I get my hands on him. Not bad, Will my main character be able to shove the spike up his a** for it to come out the top of his head? Let's make his death fun. How about cutting his ears off then stab him to death with them? If we play as the Inquisitor, will he/she have the ability to rip off his arm then beat him to death with it? How about killing the clown when he's in dog form? Lure him with a piece of meat laced with poison.
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Post by Sharable Horizon on May 4, 2022 0:35:12 GMT
Nope, because all asari are biotic from birth. Whereas with Ryder, you actually get dialogue that relates to them being biotic or not. For example during the Asari ark mission, when Cora experiences extreme pain from the device, Ryders dialogue changes depending on whether you have points in biotics (from Ryder asking Cora what’s wrong/ too experiencing the same discomfort.) Plus Jaal’s dialogue changing if your also a biotic. I'm referring to Shepard. The poster might be right for the little one, but with Shepard, there's already at least one point in biotics at the start of the game, is there not? Well, depending on class then yeah sure! Though I believe Hanako was actually talking about Ryder and MEA in the post you quoted? Hence why I assumed you were also talking about Andromeda.
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Post by themikefest on May 4, 2022 0:41:17 GMT
I'm referring to Shepard. The poster might be right for the little one, but with Shepard, there's already at least one point in biotics at the start of the game, is there not? Well, depending on class then yeah sure! Though I believe Hanako was actually talking about Ryder and MEA in the post you quoted? Hence why I assumed you were also talking about Andromeda. If I was referring to MEA, I would not have mentioned t'soni. I would have mentioned Harper or the stowaway.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 4, 2022 1:17:56 GMT
I'm referring to Shepard. The poster might be right for the little one, but with Shepard, there's already at least one point in biotics at the start of the game, is there not? Well, depending on class then yeah sure! Though I believe Hanako was actually talking about Ryder and MEA in the post you quoted? Hence why I assumed you were also talking about Andromeda. Yeah, the conversation was about MEA and its classless system.
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Post by Hrungr on May 4, 2022 1:36:42 GMT
Corinne Busche 🏳️⚧️ @corinnebuscheAr lasa mala revas 😭😭😭
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Post by Sharable Horizon on May 4, 2022 3:42:33 GMT
Well, depending on class then yeah sure! Though I believe Hanako was actually talking about Ryder and MEA in the post you quoted? Hence why I assumed you were also talking about Andromeda. If I was referring to MEA, I would not have mentioned t'soni. I would have mentioned Harper or the stowaway. Then why quote somebody who was specifically talking/answering a question about MEA with a comment about the trilogy without mentioning that you were specifically talking about something completely different to the quote you were responding to?! Jesus I’m so confused... ANYWAY! Y’all got any of those Dragon age tweets?!
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2022 8:23:06 GMT
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. I snipped the rambling that came beforehand, that was incomprehensible. DA:O tactics were perfect. You specified a behavior, the NPC followed that behavior. If you invested in their tactics, you could further that management, but it was entirely set it and forget it. The tactics for these players never change, only evolve as I choose (or not) to invest in them. It is not an ongoing process of endless tweaking, unless you are bad at math and just can't figure out what you're doing. There's no shame in that, but don't blame the system for being broken. If your complaint stopped at having to spend time once to set things up, I would have still disagreed but given you validity. Your post just doesn't ring true of someone that has actually understood and used tactics properly, sorry. Yo! Just a heads up. Did you realise you could state your opinion without sounding like a total asshole? Just wondering. Because at this point, no matter how valid you think your points are, your particular brand of “IMMA GUN TELL IT REALZ” is in danger of sounding very dated by BSN/internet edge lord standards and also quite eye rollingly familiar to a few other Alt accounts from the past. Might want to mix it up a bit me old son. And yet the only person calling anyone names, is you. Thanks for participating in flame wars rather than the actual topic. Speaking of edgelord... Did you read your post after typing it?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 4, 2022 8:28:13 GMT
Yo! Just a heads up. Did you realise you could state your opinion without sounding like a total asshole? Just wondering. Because at this point, no matter how valid you think your points are, your particular brand of “IMMA GUN TELL IT REALZ” is in danger of sounding very dated by BSN/internet edge lord standards and also quite eye rollingly familiar to a few other Alt accounts from the past. Might want to mix it up a bit me old son. And yet the only person calling anyone names, is you. Thanks for participating in flame wars rather than the actual topic. Speaking of edgelord... Did you read your post after typing it? You called the person you were responding to an idiot multiple times, from saying parts of their post was incomprehensible rambling to literally saying they have a problem with math if they have issues with DAO tactics.
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Post by colfoley on May 4, 2022 8:32:40 GMT
And yet the only person calling anyone names, is you. Thanks for participating in flame wars rather than the actual topic. Speaking of edgelord... Did you read your post after typing it? You called the person you were responding to an idiot multiple times, from saying parts of their post was incomprehensible rambling to literally saying they have a problem with math if they have issues with DAO tactics. I'm glad I did not respond to him all of a sudden lol.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on May 4, 2022 8:35:01 GMT
No insults have been found on this page, actually. In any direction.
Saying something is “incomprehensible rambling”, is not saying the rambler is an idiot. It is saying the post didn’t make sense.
Likewise, the response to that post contained no insults.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2022 8:37:28 GMT
And yet the only person calling anyone names, is you. Thanks for participating in flame wars rather than the actual topic. Speaking of edgelord... Did you read your post after typing it? You called the person you were responding to an idiot multiple times, from saying parts of their post was incomprehensible rambling to literally saying they have a problem with math if they have issues with DAO tactics. Read my post, quote where I called anyone an "idiot". I can criticize ideas too Han, I didn't criticize the person. I disagree with their, what I consider to be, poorly informed opinion. If you want to call it a tapdance, fine, but I play by the rules and you could try it yourself. There were parts of that post that simply do not make sense to me from a structural standpoint, and the shared context was no help. As for math - if you haven't caught on, math is a pretty important skill in BioWare games. Min-maxing works. Paying attention to little things works, and setting a tactic once because you noticed your idiot Templar was dying too often, and seeing that problem magically cure itself for the rest of the game... That's not a complicated system, it worked reliably and was based on numbers. I felt it was a pretty low-key criticism. I stand by the post.
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Post by themikefest on May 4, 2022 11:10:51 GMT
If I was referring to MEA, I would not have mentioned t'soni. I would have mentioned Harper or the stowaway. Then why quote somebody who was specifically talking/answering a question about MEA with a comment about the trilogy without mentioning that you were specifically talking about something completely different to the quote you were responding to?! Jesus I’m so confused... ANYWAY! Y’all got any of those Dragon age tweets?! Where in the post did the poster mention MEA that I quoted? Didn't you assume the poster was talking about MEA? Then you assumed I was referring to MEA when that wasn't correct.
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Post by Sartoz on May 4, 2022 12:11:47 GMT
Fascinating!... his view of Cassandra. Compared to Dorian's fully fleshed out story arc (with the necessary Word Budget), Cassandra's suffered a skeletonised romance arc..... yep, truly inclusive.
After the brief but requisite wham-bam scene, Cas never 'opened' up to me again. Truly, I tell you, I was forgotten. Truth be told, though, her penchant for romance novels cracked me up. (◔‿◔)
______________________
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Post by Sanunes on May 4, 2022 12:36:00 GMT
Fascinating!... his view of Cassandra. Compared to Dorian's fully fleshed out story arc (with the necessary Word Budget), Cassandra's suffered a skeletonised romance arc..... yep, truly inclusive.
After the brief but requisite wham-bam scene, Cas never 'opened' up to me again. Truly, I tell you, I was forgotten. Truth be told, though, her penchant for romance novels cracked me up. (◔‿◔)
______________________
I think one area BioWare needs to improve when it comes to romance is what happens after the entire arc plays out. To me I think Mass Effect 2 was done well for you can invite your interest up to Shepard's cabin and spend time together. I think if there was one or maybe two more events beyond the two there it could have been a good template going forward. They don't have to be much more in depth then what is already there just something different in the Normandy such as a late night dinner alone in the galley just to give the impression of a "date night". With the games released after it seems most of the time it come across as a storyline that is abandoned after completion.
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Post by smilesja on May 4, 2022 15:28:50 GMT
You called the person you were responding to an idiot multiple times, from saying parts of their post was incomprehensible rambling to literally saying they have a problem with math if they have issues with DAO tactics. Read my post, quote where I called anyone an "idiot". I can criticize ideas too Han, I didn't criticize the person. I disagree with their, what I consider to be, poorly informed opinion. You can do it without being condescending.
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Post by Iakus on May 4, 2022 16:03:18 GMT
Fascinating!... his view of Cassandra. Compared to Dorian's fully fleshed out story arc (with the necessary Word Budget), Cassandra's suffered a skeletonised romance arc..... yep, truly inclusive.
After the brief but requisite wham-bam scene, Cas never 'opened' up to me again. Truly, I tell you, I was forgotten. Truth be told, though, her penchant for romance novels cracked me up. (◔‿◔)
______________________
At least with Josephine you can take her out to the garden afterwards....
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Post by gervaise21 on May 4, 2022 18:40:25 GMT
After the brief but requisite wham-bam scene, Cas never 'opened' up to me again. Truly, I tell you, I was forgotten. Truth be told, though, her penchant for romance novels cracked me up. I think one area BioWare needs to improve when it comes to romance is what happens after the entire arc plays out. To me I think Mass Effect 2 was done well for you can invite your interest up to Shepard's cabin and spend time together. When I did the Cassandra romance, after our romantic tryst I was able to go to her and ask for a bit of private time when we kissed, just as I was able to do with Dorian. What I found strange about Dorian was that you only got to spend time doing other things, like reviewing the troops, if you were in a romance and yet those were things that would be just as appropriate if you were good friends. As it was, if you weren't romancing Dorian, if you went to speak with him between main plot points, all you got was hi and goodbye, whereas I'm pretty sure I was able to talk about other stuff with Cassandra.
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Post by catcher on May 4, 2022 18:59:18 GMT
Fascinating!... his view of Cassandra. Compared to Dorian's fully fleshed out story arc (with the necessary Word Budget), Cassandra's suffered a skeletonised romance arc..... yep, truly inclusive.
After the brief but requisite wham-bam scene, Cas never 'opened' up to me again. Truly, I tell you, I was forgotten. Truth be told, though, her penchant for romance novels cracked me up. (◔‿◔)
______________________
That's interesting. From the collections of Complete Romance videos on Youtube, the two romances have very similar average elapsed times (~78 minutes versus ~81 minutes). I grant that's not truly scientific, but its much better than the unsubstantiated insinuations you offered and calls into question your definition of word budget. Its possible that some of the reason Cassandra's romance seems less full than Dorian's is that it is, by necessity of when each character is introduced, stretched over a longer period of adventure time. Further, more of an Inquisitor's time with Cassandra is wrapped up in the larger structure of adventuring (chasing down six apostates/templars over four different adventure areas and a whole, unique adventure area versus three Venatori in just two adventure regions) so it might not seem like romance, but you get a much deeper insight into your potential lover with Cassandra's quests than the few encounters with Dorian's targets. I will agree that I wish there was a better denouement with the Cassandra romance, but that's no excuse to wildly exaggerate while implying some form of discrimination. Consider this, in Bioware's first game with romances, there were three full (and one of them, I still consider EPIC) romances for cisgender males and one underwhelming romance for cisgender females. You didn't gain entry at all if you were looking for a different kind of relationship outside of that. You have a long way to go to claim some sort of discrimination against cisgender men and even further with the shoddy accusations with me. (Sorry to the rest of the thread about this.)
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 4, 2022 20:23:52 GMT
Fascinating!... his view of Cassandra. Compared to Dorian's fully fleshed out story arc (with the necessary Word Budget), Cassandra's suffered a skeletonised romance arc..... yep, truly inclusive.
After the brief but requisite wham-bam scene, Cas never 'opened' up to me again. Truly, I tell you, I was forgotten. Truth be told, though, her penchant for romance novels cracked me up. (◔‿◔)
______________________
That's interesting. From the collections of Complete Romance videos on Youtube, the two romances have very similar average elapsed times (~78 minutes versus ~81 minutes). I grant that's not truly scientific, but its much better than the unsubstantiated insinuations you offered and calls into question your definition of word budget. Its possible that some of the reason Cassandra's romance seems less full than Dorian's is that it is, by necessity of when each character is introduced, stretched over a longer period of adventure time. Further, more of an Inquisitor's time with Cassandra is wrapped up in the larger structure of adventuring (chasing down six apostates/templars over four different adventure areas and a whole, unique adventure area versus three Venatori in just two adventure regions) so it might not seem like romance, but you get a much deeper insight into your potential lover with Cassandra's quests than the few encounters with Dorian's targets. I will agree that I wish there was a better denouement with the Cassandra romance, but that's no excuse to wildly exaggerate while implying some form of discrimination. Consider this, in Bioware's first game with romances, there were three full (and one of them, I still consider EPIC) romances for cisgender males and one underwhelming romance for cisgender females. You didn't gain entry at all if you were looking for a different kind of relationship outside of that. You have a long way to go to claim some sort of discrimination against cisgender men and even further with the shoddy accusations with me. (Sorry to the rest of the thread about this.)
I would say some of it can be banter with various party members I know romancing with Sera that both Dorian and Iron Bull comment on their relationship (Sera also has a great exchange with Dorian and Iron Bull about their relationship if you don't romance either one of them). Having the other people can make the romances seem bigger and epic than sometimes it really it is. It's also how the characters can seem to clash the human Inquisitor and Sera are two people from very different social classes (the human class is a noble and Sera is working class) as much as a same sex or interracial relationship and their relationship is more interesting because both have to learn to how to be a couple than Sera just falling head over heels in love with the Inquisitor, that is why they have arguments and different points of view. Sera also gets scared that the Inquisitor will die. The Inquisitor can get annoyed by her.
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Post by Sartoz on May 4, 2022 23:05:21 GMT
Fascinating!... his view of Cassandra. Compared to Dorian's fully fleshed out story arc (with the necessary Word Budget), Cassandra's suffered a skeletonised romance arc..... yep, truly inclusive.
After the brief but requisite wham-bam scene, Cas never 'opened' up to me again. Truly, I tell you, I was forgotten. Truth be told, though, her penchant for romance novels cracked me up. (◔‿◔)
______________________
I think one area BioWare needs to improve when it comes to romance is what happens after the entire arc plays out. Snip Exactly!
Now here, right here, is where the devs must improve with DA4. How about your love interest comes to you and whisk you away somewhere sometime afterwards?. The abrupt halt with Cas was jarring. (◔‿◔)
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Post by Sartoz on May 4, 2022 23:29:32 GMT
Fascinating!... his view of Cassandra. Compared to Dorian's fully fleshed out story arc (with the necessary Word Budget), Cassandra's suffered a skeletonised romance arc..... yep, truly inclusive.
After the brief but requisite wham-bam scene, Cas never 'opened' up to me again. Truly, I tell you, I was forgotten. Truth be told, though, her penchant for romance novels cracked me up. (◔‿◔)
______________________
That's interesting. From the collections of Complete Romance videos on Youtube, the two romances have very similar average elapsed times (~78 minutes versus ~81 minutes). I grant that's not truly scientific Snip
Indeed. ... unscientific, that is.
80+/- minutes is way longer than I remember (that was 10+ years ago). If the Complete Romance Youtube collectios include banter that I consider outside the romance arc then boo to them. Perhaps my romance arc viewpoint is too focused. Regardless, that s my perception as a player.
Point though, is this: If a player's perception of a romance arc is negative, then the writers need to understand why and correct what's broken. Easy to say, I admit. But, there is an opportunity with DA4.
Perhaps a pre-DA4 romance questionnaire is in order. LOL.
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catcher
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Sept 19, 2024 1:34:39 GMT
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by catcher on May 5, 2022 4:02:51 GMT
80+/- minutes is way longer than I remember (that was 10+ years ago). If the Complete Romance Youtube collectios include banter that I consider outside the romance arc then boo to them. Perhaps my romance arc viewpoint is too focused. Regardless, that s my perception as a player. Point though, is this: If a player's perception of a romance arc is negative, then the writers need to understand why and correct what's broken. Easy to say, I admit. But, there is an opportunity with DA4. Perhaps a pre-DA4 romance questionnaire is in order. LOL. You should have just led with this and left the the developer-slamming conspiracy theories on the bathroom floor where they belong. I get Players with a passionate desire for what they like and strong opinion. I do not abide Players who do not understand the difficulty in making a game that attracts millions of other Players with slightly to radically different ideas of what is fun. Very few developers are out to alienate Players on purpose. Those that do, don't last long. I also can't abide Players who claim that this unrelated thing that other Players liked somehow sucked all the joy out of their preferred thing like some gaming development vampire. See my sig, it's not just a game to entertain you but also me, cyberstrike, dragons, bunnies, all-ee-ga-tors, and many others. Dumping disappointment on something good that's targeted to other Players is discrediting other's hard work and belittling the Players who enjoy that. Now, onto your perceptions... This is probably better held in a dedicated thread, but what does define the 'romance arc' for you? For the most part that I saw, the YouTube videos focused on conversation trees that had one or more 'heart' options in them so how much narrower is yours (and realize, these videos were for all convo options that involved the romance, so in a single playthrough it would be impossible to get the full 80-90 minutes). BG2 used to signify romance talk by triggering specific sound queues, maybe it's time to go back to those for DA4? I will mention this again, the way the romance is structured may have more to do with the perception than the actual number of lines. Cassandra's romance arc is somewhat unique in that it is heavily forward loaded and rises to apotheosis relatively quickly. You can start the romance right after the prelude and even before that there is a certain intimacy in how she and your Inquisitor interact from the beginning. She is simmering on your Inquisitor's complements for a long time first because she doesn't believe she can be attractive and second because her sense of duty rejects entanglements with someone she has to closely watch and later support possibly sacrificing her own life to do so. Dorian's romance starts much later unless the Player intentionally gooses the start (minimum power to launch trip to Val Royeaux, push immediately to Redcliffe, focus on Power accumulation again to get In Hushed Whispers launched). Dorian is much freer with giving and taking compliments so there's a bit more of a payoff in the feedback with him. He's also got a very different sense of duty and is literally on an island socially. All of that makes for a more constant rise in the interest. Out of curiosity, did you try romancing Josephine? Her's is different than the other two but she opens up more gradually than Cassandra. This is something that's hard to get right for as many Players as possible so I never envy the development team on this odd, game defining sideline. Oh, and I'm still waiting for the Jaheira-level romance epic so I have my own asks. Better talking with you this time.
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