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Post by gervaise21 on May 7, 2022 7:37:53 GMT
A thought that I'm looking forward to you shooting down, is that the Black City manifests in both realms simultaneously. We know its possible to somewhat calibrate between the two. I'm not going to shoot this down since it is very much along the lines of what I was trying to say. We know the Fade is said to reflect the real world, with things seen there being the manifestation of thoughts and dreams of those in the Waking World or constructs of powerful demons based off what they have seen in the minds of others. However, except in the case of the latter, these images do not last for long or remain in one place. The mages of Tevinter discovered this long ago when they attempted to map the Fade. The realms of powerful demons seem to be kept from dissolving by the will of the demon, although they may still shift around a bit when it comes to location. The Black City is unusual in that it seems to be located at a fixed point, visible from anywhere in the Fade, and unchanging in appearance, except when it changed from Golden to Black. This seemed to occur when the Magisters broke in and discovered it was Black, which suggests that possibly it was Golden before in the Fade because that is what dreamers expected it to be but the Magisters broke the illusion. We don't really know exactly what the spell was that the Magisters used that allowed them to open the Veil precisely at the point where they could enter the Black City. When we enter the Fade physically into the Nightmare demon's realm it is presumably because of the rift the Nightmare demon was causing that was keeping the Veil in the general area adjacent to its domain. I do wonder if the Black City in the Fade was simply a portal into the real city in the Deep Roads. Alternatively, if their spell was along the lines of "take us to the home of the gods", they just assumed their destination was the city in the Fade but instead they ended up in the Deep Roads. However, the fact that the Veil caused the destruction of so many elven structures through cutting off the magic that presumably held them together, does make me feel that the bit in the Fade is a tangible part of the original city. This seems borne out by the Avvar legend of the home of the gods being lifted up into the Fade and cut off from mortals. Which brings me back to the idea, that you have also suggested, of the city existing simultaneously in the Fade and the Waking Word. So the Magisters did enter the city in the Fade but as the magic allowing them access started to fail and the Veil closed again, they were deposited back outside the Fade in the part of the Waking World that corresponded to the city in the Fade. Whatever the case, it seems likely we are going to discover more of this riddle next game. In fact, could it be we are finally going to visit the Black City itself, in our dreams if not physically. This image that was released of "work in progress" certainly has Black City vibes to me.
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Post by Sartoz on May 7, 2022 13:58:12 GMT
Anyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up?
Bio gave us the Origins story mechanics, followed by a "forced" character fleeing from the Blight and last the studio gave us a nobody in Act 1 of DA:I that showed up in the Fade and with the help of a figure with golden light woke up in a Chantry dungeon with a green glowing mark on their left palm.
So, what will Bio do? I strongly suspect the opening act will be different. ...and based on this "unsuspecting hero". Is it the usual highborn with no ambition? A low born whose family once was held in high esteem? A peasant? slave? another nobody? another Hawke type? Will this figure with the golden light make another appearance? ... a counter to Baldy's darkness ( I hear the wardens will show up)?
(◔‿◔)
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on May 7, 2022 14:06:29 GMT
Anyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up? Easy. Action, Action, Action with little conversations / dialogues as possible because Bioware seems to believe that the beginning is only definded by action gameplay so the player shouldn´t feel bored. So my idea we play the first one to two hour as a nobody who has similiar to Hawke escape the area and fights countless Qunaris.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 7, 2022 14:43:53 GMT
AAnyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up? I still favour the slave background, which can be any race (I'm pretty sure casteless dwarves can be slaves) or class (mages can be slaves in Tevinter). Then your estate/town is attacked by Qunari, which results in your freedom or, alternatively, has your master guarantee your freedom if you can get them safely to Minrathous. Another possibility would be the Sicarri as apparently many of their members are from slave families, whose relatives are held hostage against your loyalty, which could throw up some interesting sub-plots. Another alternative, which some people favour, is that you are a Lord of Fortune, which would also fit any race or class and you could start off with a commission to find some artifact for a mysterious benefactor. This would lend itself to travelling to various locations in search of the artifact and gradually involve you in the main plot in doing so.
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Post by Iakus on May 7, 2022 16:14:19 GMT
We don't really know exactly what the spell was that the Magisters used that allowed them to open the Veil precisely at the point where they could enter the Black City. When we enter the Fade physically into the Nightmare demon's realm it is presumably because of the rift the Nightmare demon was causing that was keeping the Veil in the general area adjacent to its domain. I do wonder if the Black City in the Fade was simply a portal into the real city in the Deep Roads. Alternatively, if their spell was along the lines of "take us to the home of the gods", they just assumed their destination was the city in the Fade but instead they ended up in the Deep Roads. We do know it took a tremendous amount of magic: two thirds of Tevinter's lyrium stockpile and several hundred slaves sacrificed in a blood magic ritual. And Dumat himself may have been involved.
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Post by Ravenfeeder on May 7, 2022 16:37:25 GMT
Anyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up? It opens with you standing over Solas' dead body. With him dead the Veil, his creation, starts to fray and disintegrate, with the epicentre at his body. You have to escape the wild magic effects that are occurring, whilst overcoming a terrible tutorial system.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 7, 2022 17:22:03 GMT
We do know it took a tremendous amount of magic: two thirds of Tevinter's lyrium stockpile and several hundred slaves sacrificed in a blood magic ritual. And Dumat himself may have been involved. I can't remember exactly but where did the codex referring to this originate? According to Dorian's research in DAI, Sethius Amladaris belonged to a very mediocre house and was not a terribly important priest of Dumat. This, of course, contradicts with Hessarian's version of events, which states that Corypheus was the High Priest of Dumat and thus one of the most senior priests of the Old Gods. Yet the fact that Sethius only took the name Corypheus at the time he came up with his plan would seem to contradict the idea that he was already the High Priest of Dumat. If Corypheus was already an official title of the religion, then clearly Amladaris was seeking to usurp the position of the actual High Priest. This seems more likely considering Old God worship was only said to have fallen away when they all fell silent during the First Blight and Dumat attacked them. Even so, it was apparently still going strong in Hessarian's time, which is why it took a blood bath on his part to remove them. So may be it was just worship in the area local to Sethius' temple that was waning, probably due to him not being a very effective priest. Corypheus' servant says his master was worried about the falling off in worship of the Old Gods, which is why he decided to do something drastic to remedy the situation. If that was the case, how did he manage to swing being given two thirds of Tevinter's lyrium stockpile? That would surely have involved both the Archon and the Magisterium to get their approval? Yet even Hessarian seemed to suggest that the Archon was ignorant of what Corypheus and Co were doing. Plus it did not occur in Minrathous but somewhere to the south, quite possibly in a city located in the old Kingdom of Neromenian, since that is where the worship of Dumat originated, or even one of the various shrines to Dumat that we have visited in the course of the games. So I wonder if the idea of the amount of lyrium or even the number of slaves involved was totally down to Hessarian's version of events, which even the later southern Divine thought was political propaganda intended to discredit his Altus rivals and priesthood of the Old Gods rather than historical fact. As for Dumat being involved, it may be that the god was the source of the spell that opened the Veil precisely onto the Black City. In DA2, Corypheus' complaint would seem to suggest that someone had promised him he was going to find himself in the Golden City as a result of that spell but instead he found it was black. Presumably Dumat also told him where to find the Claws of Dumat that were necessary to perform the ritual.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on May 7, 2022 17:33:28 GMT
Anyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up? It opens with you standing over Solas' dead body. With him dead the Veil, his creation, starts to fray and disintegrate, with the epicentre at his body. You have to escape the wild magic effects that are occurring, whilst overcoming a terrible tutorial system. At the same time, you are being constantly staggered by Venatori Mages robbing your lifeforce for their advantage and Qunari Spearmen are swirling like no end around you - making more staggers. But have no fear! Qunari Guardians are there too, running towards you and then hitting you to the ground... you are 95% of the time on the ground trying to get up...
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Post by themikefest on May 7, 2022 17:39:32 GMT
Anyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up? Yes. The scene shows Solas walking up a hill. Once at the top, he says his hocus pocus words that will get rid of the veil. After a few moments, the veil appears to disappear. But it didn't. What happened is he used the wrong phrase. Instead he released the evanuris. As he walks back down the hill cursing at himself for being so stupid, the evanuris set their sights on causing chaos in Thedas. If the Inquisitor returns as the main character, Dagna is seen crafting an arm for the Ink. A tutorial takes place showing the player what new talents the Ink has with the new arm.
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Post by Iakus on May 7, 2022 17:56:26 GMT
We do know it took a tremendous amount of magic: two thirds of Tevinter's lyrium stockpile and several hundred slaves sacrificed in a blood magic ritual. And Dumat himself may have been involved. I can't remember exactly but where did the codex referring to this originate? According to Dorian's research in DAI, Sethius Amladaris belonged to a very mediocre house and was not a terribly important priest of Dumat. This, of course, contradicts with Hessarian's version of events, which states that Corypheus was the High Priest of Dumat and thus one of the most senior priests of the Old Gods. Yet the fact that Sethius only took the name Corypheus at the time he came up with his plan would seem to contradict the idea that he was already the High Priest of Dumat. If Corypheus was already an official title of the religion, then clearly Amladaris was seeking to usurp the position of the actual High Priest. This seems more likely considering Old God worship was only said to have fallen away when they all fell silent during the First Blight and Dumat attacked them. Even so, it was apparently still going strong in Hessarian's time, which is why it took a blood bath on his part to remove them. So may be it was just worship in the area local to Sethius' temple that was waning, probably due to him not being a very effective priest. Corypheus' servant says his master was worried about the falling off in worship of the Old Gods, which is why he decided to do something drastic to remedy the situation. If that was the case, how did he manage to swing being given two thirds of Tevinter's lyrium stockpile? That would surely have involved both the Archon and the Magisterium to get their approval? Yet even Hessarian seemed to suggest that the Archon was ignorant of what Corypheus and Co were doing. Plus it did not occur in Minrathous but somewhere to the south, quite possibly in a city located in the old Kingdom of Neromenian, since that is where the worship of Dumat originated, or even one of the various shrines to Dumat that we have visited in the course of the games. So I wonder if the idea of the amount of lyrium or even the number of slaves involved was totally down to Hessarian's version of events, which even the later southern Divine thought was political propaganda intended to discredit his Altus rivals and priesthood of the Old Gods rather than historical fact. As for Dumat being involved, it may be that the god was the source of the spell that opened the Veil precisely onto the Black City. In DA2, Corypheus' complaint would seem to suggest that someone had promised him he was going to find himself in the Golden City as a result of that spell but instead he found it was black. Presumably Dumat also told him where to find the Claws of Dumat that were necessary to perform the ritual. From the Codex Entry "The Cardinal Rules of Magic" You must not be under the misimpression that magic is all-powerful. There are limits, and not even the greatest mages may overcome them. No one, for instance, has found any means of traveling—either over great distances or small ones—beyond putting one foot in front of the other. The immutable nature of the physical world prevents this. So no, you may not simply pop over to Minrathous to borrow a cup of sugar, nor may you magic the essay you "forgot" in the apprentice dormitory to your desk. You will simply have to be prepared. Similarly, even when you send your mind into the Fade, your body remains behind. Only once has this barrier been overcome, and reputedly the spell required two-thirds of the lyrium in the Tevinter Imperium as well as the lifeblood of several hundred slaves. The results were utterly disastrous. Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality.As for Corypheus serving DUmat, there's his ramblings in Legacy: Reinforced by an offhand comment in Haven:
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Post by smilesja on May 7, 2022 18:12:16 GMT
I have a feeling that Dumat is still alive somewhere.
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Post by cymercenary285 on May 7, 2022 18:24:26 GMT
I have a feeling that Dumat is still alive somewhere. Isnt Dumat the first blights Archdemon? so kaput?
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Post by Heimdall on May 7, 2022 18:26:58 GMT
AAnyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up? I still favour the slave background, which can be any race (I'm pretty sure casteless dwarves can be slaves) or class (mages can be slaves in Tevinter). Then your estate/town is attacked by Qunari, which results in your freedom or, alternatively, has your master guarantee your freedom if you can get them safely to Minrathous. Another possibility would be the Sicarri as apparently many of their members are from slave families, whose relatives are held hostage against your loyalty, which could throw up some interesting sub-plots. Another alternative, which some people favour, is that you are a Lord of Fortune, which would also fit any race or class and you could start off with a commission to find some artifact for a mysterious benefactor. This would lend itself to travelling to various locations in search of the artifact and gradually involve you in the main plot in doing so. I had a post a long time ago hoping for some sort of choice in our background, but it sort of all came down to down to this as a jumping off point: Qunari attack on the city/town results in our character losing prior status (slave or otherwise), crossing paths with the Inquisition or other group to get us thrown into the plot.
I think Lord of Fortune might be something our character becomes rather than a background, which might mean our involvement with the Solas plots comes about in a more roundabout way.
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Post by cymercenary285 on May 7, 2022 18:30:59 GMT
Anyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up?
Bio gave us the Origins story mechanics, followed by a "forced" character fleeing from the Blight and last the studio gave us a nobody in Act 1 of DA:I that showed up in the Fade and with the help of a figure with golden light woke up in a Chantry dungeon with a green glowing mark on their left palm.
So, what will Bio do? I strongly suspect the opening act will be different. ...and based on this "unsuspecting hero". Is it the usual highborn with no ambition? A low born whose family once was held in high esteem? A peasant? slave? another nobody? another Hawke type? Will this figure with the golden light make another appearance? ... a counter to Baldy's darkness ( I hear the wardens will show up)?
(◔‿◔)
_____________________
Starting out at a hidden location, a recruit to a special group of the (still going or underground) Inquisition. Maybe spoken to by Leliana or cullen or even your inquisitor or someone else. You do a few jobs hunting after solas and show great promise, maybe become group leader. You return to base after an assignment which you either succeeded by the skin of your teeth or was disaster, regardless you know something big is wrong and find the Inquisition is attacked and almost wiped out either by solas or another big bad. You have to know to save what you can and became the leader of a remnant. The inquisitor is gone either presumed or definitely dead.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on May 7, 2022 19:14:02 GMT
I have a feeling that Dumat is still alive somewhere. Isnt Dumat the first blights Archdemon? so kaput? I mean, do we even know for sure that the Archdemons are incarnations of the Tevinter gods? For all we know that's just a myth. Yes, we know Flemeth wanted to preserve the soul of the dragon, but she might very well have lied to Morrigan about its true nature.
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Post by colfoley on May 7, 2022 20:11:07 GMT
I have a feeling that Dumat is still alive somewhere. Isnt Dumat the first blights Archdemon? so kaput? While I do not remember exactly what gave me that theory I believe either during DA 2 or DAI I was theorizing on the fact that Dumat might still be alive. I mean he seems to be mentioned an awful lot in the modern eras and has a lot of plot relevance. We know that 'Old God Souls' can be saved and even purified. And DA has a long standing habit of bringing back creatures long thought dead or having creatures continue on long past their expected expiration date. So is it possible in the lore? Certainly. And more vaguely perhaps but given that he was the 'Old God of silence' theoretically Corypheus could be doing all the calling out to him that he wants to and he just might not hear him.
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Post by Sartoz on May 7, 2022 21:22:12 GMT
Isnt Dumat the first blights Archdemon? so kaput? While I do not remember exactly what gave me that theory I believe either during DA 2 or DAI I was theorizing on the fact that Dumat might still be alive. I mean he seems to be mentioned an awful lot in the modern eras and has a lot of plot relevance. We know that 'Old God Souls' can be saved and even purified. And DA has a long standing habit of bringing back creatures long thought dead or having creatures continue on long past their expected expiration date. So is it possible in the lore? Certainly. And more vaguely perhaps but given that he was the 'Old God of silence' theoretically Corypheus could be doing all the calling out to him that he wants to and he just might not hear him.
Corypheus may very well be alive and kicking. His tainted spirit may have been drawn to the Black City as the nearest source of the Blight. Also his body-jumping ability was not cancelled. So yeah... Bio writers may throw a curve ball at us..
Dumat, was he not slained by the Grey Wardens at the battle of Silent Plains? I understand his remains were moved to the Weisshaupt Fortress. (◔‿◔)
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Post by necrowaif on May 7, 2022 21:34:04 GMT
Corypheus may very well be alive and kicking. Uh, no, Corypheus is definitely dead. In fact, he’s super-dead. Corypheus invested too much of his power into creating his false Archdemon. The two were connected, and when the dragon was slain, it weakened Corypheus, preventing him from taking on another body. Then the Inquisitor sent him to the Fade and he was utterly consumed without the Anchor to protect him. There’s even a note in World of Thedas Volume II that makes it clear he was completely destroyed with no way of coming back. I’ll also note that, from a meta perspective, once you establish the conditions for killing the unkillable, it basically robs the story of any dramatic tension if you try to call backsies once those conditions are met. I may have my doubts about BioWare’s ability to craft a good DA4, but I don’t think they’d shoot themselves in the foot bringing back Corypheus.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on May 7, 2022 21:42:01 GMT
I may have my doubts about BioWare’s ability to craft a good DA4, but I don’t think they’d shoot themselves in the foot bringing back Corypheus. I mean, why would they? He hardly was their most popular antagonist, and they have an additional six or so other ancient magisters if they want to kinda redo the story. I really see no reason for him to come back other than to antagonize the player base.
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Post by colfoley on May 7, 2022 22:09:11 GMT
I think they gave themselves an out either way. Cory is probably super dead but just in case they can think of a story reason to use him later... Fade surprise.
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Post by Hrungr on May 7, 2022 22:15:08 GMT
Anyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up? My pick is still with the PC becoming a member of the Lords of Fortune. They're pretty much tailor-made for PCs. Either joining them as a result of the Tevinter/Qunari war or starting as one, and jumping right into a tutorial mission for them. They're not an overly complicated organization, so it's certainly possible. Easy. Action, Action, Action with little conversations / dialogues as possible because Bioware seems to believe that the beginning is only definded by action gameplay so the player shouldn´t feel bored. I'm not a fan of hitting the ground running in RPGs either. Give me a quieter start in order to get a lay of the land and I'm a much happier camper. Who are the PC's friends, family, clan, allies, pet nugs...? It'd be nice if they amounted to something more than just a couple of codex entries in the game. Never say never, but... yeah. BW has weighed in on this a number of times already and it's unlikely to happen. Having the game open with a Tevinter/Qunari battle feels like a pretty safe bet. If you're already a LoF on a tutorial mission, that would be the wrinkle in your plans. You might be led to believe you're retrieving a McGuffin for one party, only to find it's secretly for the Inquisition, and become embroiled in the plot that way.
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Post by smilesja on May 7, 2022 23:52:15 GMT
Isnt Dumat the first blights Archdemon? so kaput? I mean, do we even know for sure that the Archdemons are incarnations of the Tevinter gods? For all we know that's just a myth. Yes, we know Flemeth wanted to preserve the soul of the dragon, but she might very well have lied to Morrigan about its true nature. Yeah, who created the Dark Ritual? Flemeth? Considering in DA2 everytime Corypheus prayed to Dumat for a power, that he granted it, I have a feeling that he's snooping around somewhere.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 8, 2022 0:06:47 GMT
Ugh, all these opening ideas sound absolutely terrible.
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Post by colfoley on May 8, 2022 0:16:50 GMT
Anyone have any idea how Act 1 of DA4 will open up? My pick is still with the PC becoming a member of the Lords of Fortune. They're pretty much tailor-made for PCs. Either joining them as a result of the Tevinter/Qunari war or starting as one, and jumping right into a tutorial mission for them. They're not an overly complicated organization, so it's certainly possible. Easy. Action, Action, Action with little conversations / dialogues as possible because Bioware seems to believe that the beginning is only definded by action gameplay so the player shouldn´t feel bored. I'm not a fan of hitting the ground running in RPGs either. Give me a quieter start in order to get a lay of the land and I'm a much happier camper. Who are the PC's friends, family, clan, allies, pet nugs...? It'd be nice if they amounted to something more than just a couple of codex entries in the game. Never say never, but... yeah. BW has weighed in on this a number of times already and it's unlikely to happen. Having the game open with a Tevinter/Qunari battle feels like a pretty safe bet. If you're already a LoF on a tutorial mission, that would be the wrinkle in your plans. You might be led to believe you're retrieving a McGuffin for one party, only to find it's secretly for the Inquisition, and you get embroiled in the plot that way. As far as I was aware the Origins story aspect may never return and that is all they have mentioned (though I think that may change given Cyberpunk) but this does not imply that a quieter slower beginning is not entirely ruled out. As far as how act 1 will open up this is assuming they do not do an Origin Story (because even then an Origin Story would be considered a prlogue and not the first act) you will start getting introduced to the main plot and the main conflicts and you will be effectively settled in whatever organization you chose to be a part of. You probably won't be aware of Solas specifically at the start but you will soon discover him and stumble upon him.
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Post by Hrungr on May 8, 2022 0:48:56 GMT
As far as I was aware the Origins story aspect may never return and that is all they have mentioned (though I think that may change given Cyberpunk) but this does not imply that a quieter slower beginning is not entirely ruled out. The Origin Stories and "slow starts" were issues they've touched on separately. Apparently one of the complaints they were hearing about DA:O was that you didn't get into the action fast enough and there was too much talking in the beginning. (Insert my long, resigned sigh here) And that's why we've been hitting the ground running ever since. This reminds me of someone, not that long ago, talking about their DAI playthrough and how they skipped the cutscenes and dialogue. They said, if it was important they might look it up later. On a gut level, I wondered why people like that bother playing RPGs in the first place, but it seems for quite a number of people, it's all about the combat/gameplay. Everything else is superfluous.
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