Sundance31us
N5
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Post by Sundance31us on May 8, 2022 19:33:00 GMT
Broodmothers were the best mothers Bioware has created.
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Post by smilesja on May 8, 2022 19:56:42 GMT
Broodmothers were the best mothers Bioware has created. I'm pretty sure Morrigan would prefer a Broodmother for a mother than Flemeth.
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Post by Walter Black on May 8, 2022 19:59:53 GMT
I’m glad they abandoned the Origins route. Was not a fan of how much that limited the ability to roleplay your character. For example a Trevelyan can have many different kinds of relationship with their family, but a Cousland only has one. As most of us here are familiar with the traditional "Bioware Formula", we all know they've never truly done completely Blank Slates. For better or worse, they prefer protagonists whose histories are integrated with their worlds. Now they *could* do one for DA4, but nothing thus far has shown me that the current writers are interested in a hero where they cannot reference any history or connections in any meaningful way. Just out curiosity Hanako, since you've alluded to prefering heroes over villains or even jerks, what's your RP rationale for a Cousland Warden that doesn't care about their murdered family? Especially when Bryce and Eleanor are usually portrayed positively? It's a perfectly valid choice, but again, just curious.
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Sundance31us
N5
Mostly Harmless
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sundance31us on May 8, 2022 20:02:00 GMT
I'm pretty sure Morrigan would prefer a Broodmother for a mother than Flemeth. Probably, but if you do the ritual she becomes a mother and she appears to be a decent one.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 8, 2022 20:52:54 GMT
I’m glad they abandoned the Origins route. Was not a fan of how much that limited the ability to roleplay your character. For example a Trevelyan can have many different kinds of relationship with their family, but a Cousland only has one. As most of us here are familiar with the traditional "Bioware Formula", we all know they've never truly done completely Blank Slates. For better or worse, they prefer protagonists whose histories are integrated with their worlds. Now they *could* do one for DA4, but nothing thus far has shown me that the current writers are interested in a hero where they cannot reference any history or connections in any meaningful way. Just out curiosity Hanako, since you've alluded to prefering heroes over villains or even jerks, what's your RP rationale for a Cousland Warden that doesn't care about their murdered family? Especially when Bryce and Eleanor are usually portrayed positively? It's a perfectly valid choice, but again, just curious. Oh, I have no hope they will. The last RPG protagonist was Ryder after all, and while I love Ryder they predetermined their past a lot. The Inquisitor was the best they ever did on this front, one reason they’re my favorite, but doing that would require good decision making, and so far DA4 has shown none of that. I’ve never played a Cousland like that, partly because playing the first time as one it was clear you couldn’t play a Cousland like that. So can’t answer, sorry.
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Post by Iakus on May 8, 2022 21:15:44 GMT
Broodmothers were the best mothers Bioware has created. Quantity-wise, if not quality...
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
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Post by Sanunes on May 8, 2022 22:05:45 GMT
Just a thought on the origins for Dragon Age: Origins. Its an easy place to make cuts if you need more time to work on other areas of the game to put more development time in what players say were under developed. Looking at it from just what the different origins do it is a lot of extra development work to recreate the first hour of game five or six times where they can try to incorporate the goals of the origins into a single one that cuts back the development time and doesn't isolate it from the rest of the game.
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Post by Buckeldemon on May 8, 2022 22:20:01 GMT
From the Codex Entry "The Cardinal Rules of Magic" I remembered the codex but I was referring to the author. Was it attributed to a Tevinter mage or a member of the southern Circle Apparently, Wenselus was at Kinloch Hold. I'm told I should like Shokrakar but all I have to go one are a few letters. I'm probably expected to be sad that the Dalish Inquisitor's clan died but no one else reacts to this at all. For the Dalish part, I'm inclined to say that this business as usual for how DAI handles that particular group. Or that the general andrastian attitude which is usually more like "dead heathen elf? Good, Maker's work!" is abandoned by the advisory & party in favour of ... more polite ignorance. A Cousland didn't have to love their family. You could play them as totally ruthless if you wanted, with no real grudge against Howe except he tried to kill you too. The point is you were grounded in the world and people reacted to you because of that. It might be just the odd line, like when the Dalish shopkeeper recognised my Dalish Warden from the previous Arlathven, but it did immerse you in the world. With my Dalish Inquisitor, I had various options for telling Josephine how I related to my previous life but that was it. It was probably easier to make the Inquisitor seem part of the world if you played previous games because you know what they are talking about. Otherwise, for a new player, I assume it was just guesswork when it came to choosing an option. Lots of scenes went against other possibilities, such as Cousland always being distraught in the farewell scene with their parents goes against the example you gave. And DAI had just as many race reactions according to David Gaider, they were just more evenly spread out compared to DAO. ... spread over a game with much, much more side-content. Which originally wasn't intended to feature non-human protags, which I guess also played into it.
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Twitter Guru
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Post by Hrungr on May 9, 2022 3:04:39 GMT
Corinne Busche 🏳️⚧️ @corinnebusche“Lavellan sometimes came awake from dreams in which her lover watched her sadly from across an endless distance” I’m fine. I’ll be okay. I just… need a minute. 😭💔 #DragonAge
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Post by Grog Muffins on May 9, 2022 7:36:06 GMT
Corinne Busche 🏳️⚧️ @corinnebusche“Lavellan sometimes came awake from dreams in which her lover watched her sadly from across an endless distance” I’m fine. I’ll be okay. I just… need a minute. 😭💔 #DragonAge "Remember... Remember us... Remember that we once lived." Welp, FF14 got me excited for DA4 towards the end of last year/beginning of this one because of that one line. I got excited to see how DA4 will end Solas' story and plan after seeing how FF14 did something similar and what would be different between the approaches. Now, these tweets about DA4 make me want to go through FF14 from the beginning once more. That and also the Spotify playlist I just made with the OST. Ain't it grand how a game can get you more hyped for another one more than the actual marketing?
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Post by gervaise21 on May 9, 2022 8:10:12 GMT
I mean, to be fair, bad mothers seem to be the go-to in Dragon Age. Morrigan does manage to buck the trend though. Her scathing condemnation of Flemeth actually seemed to hit home and, of course, Morrigan goes against Flemeth's lesson of self preservation above all else when defending her son. As for non-OGB Kieran, he seems like a nice, well adjusted kid. All hail, Morrigan the Mother. Also, an honourable mention for the dwarf mother in DAO who refused to abandon her child to the Deep Roads for being the wrong caste and was ejected by her family as a result. Plus Anders' mother who always loved him despite him being a mage and didn't want to give him up but her husband and the Templars forced the issue.
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Post by ClarkKent on May 9, 2022 12:03:56 GMT
I’m glad they abandoned the Origins route. Was not a fan of how much that limited the ability to roleplay your character. For example a Trevelyan can have many different kinds of relationship with their family, but a Cousland only has one. As most of us here are familiar with the traditional "Bioware Formula", we all know they've never truly done completely Blank Slates. For better or worse, they prefer protagonists whose histories are integrated with their worlds. Now they *could* do one for DA4, but nothing thus far has shown me that the current writers are interested in a hero where they cannot reference any history or connections in any meaningful way. Just out curiosity Hanako, since you've alluded to prefering heroes over villains or even jerks, what's your RP rationale for a Cousland Warden that doesn't care about their murdered family? Especially when Bryce and Eleanor are usually portrayed positively? It's a perfectly valid choice, but again, just curious. I liked the way both games did it. The Inquisitor was a blank slate as far as never you never meet any characters from the character's past that have pre defined relationships with the character but there were many chances to define the character's back story and motivations in game - which is all I really need. It always makes me laugh cruelly when I see Skyrim players that have some elaborate head cannon for their character's backstory when in the actual game you have no choice but to play as the dullest of dull duds with the dialogue options available.
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Post by Grog Muffins on May 9, 2022 13:05:57 GMT
You can have an RPG protagonist that's either a blank slate or has some degree of predetermined history. You can inhabit the "role" of either one of them. Neither is good nor bad, just different approaches and personal preference.
Also, the line between headcanon and in-world backstory is very thin. What's the point of having a super complex, 5-page-long backstory that describes all your character's relationships, morality, ethics, sense of justice and self, if none of it plays any part in how the game allows you to roleplay? At that point you're well within headcanon territory, need to take a step back, look at what exactly the game allows you to do, and then edit your ides to fit into what the game gives you if you want an immersive experience, otherwise you'll have a miserable time, constantly being sucked out of the experience because all the effort you put in was for nothing. This sort of stuff can ruin a person's opinion and experience of an otherwise possibly good game, if only they had a bit more flexibility. A video game will never account for so much in-depth thought because of its inherent limitations as a finite product, as opposed to table top RPGs, and, again, that's not inherently a bad thing.
Table top RPGs are going through a renaissance right now, building a character from the ground up and roleplaying them exactly how you want is what they're perfect for. You can make a TTRP out of pretty much any property if you know how to make the systems work. Or, if you have that much creativity, maybe even consider writing (and I'm not saying this to be dismissive).
cRPG's get a lot of flak for not offering enough choices and freedom. If they offer these and then act like they never existed, I'm all for giving criticism and saying that's not cool (*cough*Rachni queen*cough*), but people also need to understand the limitations such games are subjected to, especially if they're part of a series. As in all things, balance is key.
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Post by Gilli on May 9, 2022 16:40:53 GMT
Corinne Busche 🏳️⚧️ @corinnebusche“Lavellan sometimes came awake from dreams in which her lover watched her sadly from across an endless distance” I’m fine. I’ll be okay. I just… need a minute. 😭💔 #DragonAge "Remember... Remember us... Remember that we once lived."Welp, FF14 got me excited for DA4 towards the end of last year/beginning of this one because of that one line. I got excited to see how DA4 will end Solas' story and plan after seeing how FF14 did something similar and what would be different between the approaches. Now, these tweets about DA4 make me want to go through FF14 from the beginning once more. That and also the Spotify playlist I just made with the OST. Ain't it grand how a game can get you more hyped for another one more than the actual marketing? Why do you have to hurt me like this? Also same. Emet-Selch reminded me so much of Solas. Also it's funny to me that he went by the name Solus when he was the Garlean Emperor Also, I just remembered, that FF14 already has DA4 I need to level Dragoon again
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Post by Grog Muffins on May 9, 2022 17:30:39 GMT
"Remember... Remember us... Remember that we once lived."Welp, FF14 got me excited for DA4 towards the end of last year/beginning of this one because of that one line. I got excited to see how DA4 will end Solas' story and plan after seeing how FF14 did something similar and what would be different between the approaches. Now, these tweets about DA4 make me want to go through FF14 from the beginning once more. That and also the Spotify playlist I just made with the OST. Ain't it grand how a game can get you more hyped for another one more than the actual marketing? Why do you have to hurt me like this? Also same. Emet-Selch reminded me so much of Solas. Also it's funny to me that he went by the name Solus when he was the Garlean Emperor Also, I just remembered, that FF14 already has DA4 I need to level Dragoon again I'm sorry, I hurt you because I also hurt myself. The trauma needs to be shared. Yep, I loled hard when I got the first achievement. Then harder when they just kept coming. Please, join the Dragoon-main club. Help us clear our name of dumb memes.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 9, 2022 17:40:23 GMT
And DAI had just as many race reactions according to David Gaider, they were just more evenly spread out compared to DAO. I wasn't referring to generic race reactions. I acknowledge we had them in DAI. What I mean was people actually recognising or knowing you personally. So Gorim, your side-kick in Orzammar if you are a dwarf noble, is the one running the stall in Denerim market. To everyone else he is just a dwarf and you are a customer but if you are the dwarf noble he is an old acquaintance. Returning to the alienage, we are not just any old elf, as we are if Dalish or a mage, but as a city elf we have a history with the people there. It just gave that sense of having lived in the world instead of just parachuted in. Funnily enough you do get more of a sense of that with Trevelyan, certainly as a mage, because Vivienne knows people from the Ostwick Circle from when she was there, which understandably was before you joined it, so it made sense she didn't know you personally but the dialogue allowed you to reference your time there in a way that felt personal because of the mutual acquaintance. (I seem to recall there was a mage that recognises you in the Redcliffe Tavern as well). There was a similar thing in Mass Effect with Shepard, where you chose an early life and a career path option, which they then referenced in various ways including having an NPC recognise you at one point. So, I agree, you don't need complete origin stories as we had in DAO, so long as they can tie in subsequent interactions based on your character creation choices. That allows a degree of feeling that you have lived in the world but leaves it vague enough for you to fill in the majority of details.
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Post by smilesja on May 9, 2022 17:42:31 GMT
I mean, to be fair, bad mothers seem to be the go-to in Dragon Age. Morrigan does manage to buck the trend though. Her scathing condemnation of Flemeth actually seemed to hit home and, of course, Morrigan goes against Flemeth's lesson of self preservation above all else when defending her son. As for non-OGB Kieran, he seems like a nice, well adjusted kid. All hail, Morrigan the Mother. Also, an honourable mention for the dwarf mother in DAO who refused to abandon her child to the Deep Roads for being the wrong caste and was ejected by her family as a result. Plus Anders' mother who always loved him despite him being a mage and didn't want to give him up but her husband and the Templars forced the issue. If the Warden was there with Morrigan:
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Post by catcher on May 9, 2022 18:43:33 GMT
If I didn't know better, I would say general discussion has broken out without info from Bioware. Into the fray! On the ritual of the Magisters Sidereal. I'm pretty confident the stories of how mush lyrium and how many slaves were sacrificed were just that, stories. It's pretty easy to explain. If you were the Archon and some mid-level losers just pulled off a ritual that was blamed for turning the world upside-down, you would spread outlandish tales too just to keep anyone else from trying. Make the bar really high and you deter future events while making it easier to spot any copycats. Perhaps the magisters behind the surreptitious sacrifices in the Enigma of Kirkwall were trying to avoid scrutiny by exsanguinating smaller groups of slaves for just this reason. One question I have wondered is: how did the Chantry or Magisterium even find out about the ritual and those involved in the first place. I don't remember any lore about any outward effects of its completion (like, say, a Green Glowing Hole in the Sky) and its not like any of them came riding at the head of a horde of darkspawn a decade or more later. Pretty sure nobody but Grey Wardens knew specifically about Corypheus until well after the Fifth Blight and the Architect is likewise a surprise to everyone. Where did the kernel for the legend come form? On Origins and beginnings: It's probably not accurate to blame an 'overreaction' for the loss of the Origins-style beginning. Each DA game has lived in a very different development world than the other two which has shaped what they CAN do viz-a-viz what they may WANT to do. Origins was long gestating love child where they had the time, resources, and authorization to do many things differently than they had to with the D&D license. Exodus was circumscribed not by reactions or desires as much as the insane development calendar. Once the decision was made to have one archetypal protagonist (and going another way would have meant more sacrifices in other areas), the multiple origins just didn't make sense. Inquisition had resources and greenlight but the landscape had changed significantly since the early 2000s as several posters have pointed out anecdotally. Games today need to be able to grab some Players while they are finding their place in the lore so different approaches are required that can still leverage the strengths of making the game personal to the Player through their character. My own thought is to allow the new character to select one of three different mini-adventures based on player preference and, through this adventure, introduce and develop a nemesis that fits the adventure. The nemesis isn't just a big mook to be killed at the end (like the first Ogre in Origins or the first pride demon in Inquisition) but a real villian who clashes with and grows right beside the protagonist. Assuming Fen'Harel is our Big Bad, having someone a couple of cuts below gives us an antagonist who is believable as a foil without having to be plot hobbled not to blow us away. Think Wyrmtoungue to our Eowyn, Draco Malfoy to our Harry Potter, etc. Giving the Player a choice in-game to define the character and his/her preferred opponent in the game as part of 'real' action can serve the causes of both immersive RP options, targeted narrative feedback, and action driven by the Player. On 'blank slate' characters: I remember (its got to be over 10 years now, maybe as much as 15) the RPG Codex spinning gossamer strands of procedural code a'la Sims generating these adventures where your character had almost complete freedom while still having a world reacting to the story you told. Things obviously haven't gone that way and in some notable cases, have regressed a bit to more pre-defined Protagonists. Maybe AI advances make the Dragon Age: Sims a reality in a decade or so where the Player can tell his/her story 'mostly' how they wish and have a world and story that can mold about them, but that time isn't here and it really doesn't appear close. Thansk all for the thoughts.
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Post by catcher on May 9, 2022 18:49:14 GMT
Corinne Busche 🏳️⚧️ @corinnebusche“Lavellan sometimes came awake from dreams in which her lover watched her sadly from across an endless distance” I’m fine. I’ll be okay. I just… need a minute. 😭💔 #DragonAge A minute? Corinne's Lavellan must be using a great axe. My Trevellan will be using daggers so it'll only be a couple of seconds. I won't get the same distance but the Egg'll be cooked all the same.
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Post by Gilli on May 9, 2022 19:31:09 GMT
Why do you have to hurt me like this? Also same. Emet-Selch reminded me so much of Solas. Also it's funny to me that he went by the name Solus when he was the Garlean Emperor Also, I just remembered, that FF14 already has DA4 I need to level Dragoon again I'm sorry, I hurt you because I also hurt myself. The trauma needs to be shared. Yep, I loled hard when I got the first achievement. Then harder when they just kept coming. Please, join the Dragoon-main club. Help us clear our name of dumb memes. Understandable, a sorrow shared is a sorrow halved. I bet I'm a Ninja/Red Mage main, but I do love DRG Need to level it in Trust again *nods* Funnily, I rarely die as DRG I once got a comm as DRG in an Alex raid and wondered /Is it because I didn't die? Or did you just like my jumping? /
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Post by Grog Muffins on May 9, 2022 20:09:36 GMT
I'm sorry, I hurt you because I also hurt myself. The trauma needs to be shared. Yep, I loled hard when I got the first achievement. Then harder when they just kept coming. Please, join the Dragoon-main club. Help us clear our name of dumb memes. Understandable, a sorrow shared is a sorrow halved. I bet I'm a Ninja/Red Mage main, but I do love DRG Need to level it in Trust again *nods* Funnily, I rarely die as DRG I once got a comm as DRG in an Alex raid and wondered /Is it because I didn't die? Or did you just like my jumping? / Highlight of my DRG career was being the only one left alive in Eden: Sepulchre and with full health. When I jumped off to reset the fight someone in the group asked how come the DRG refrained from jumping off the platform until the end and I was just like "I know how to play my job lul". Second moment was getting 3 commendations twice in a row on Expert dungeons. Had to do a double take both times but that swelled my dps heart 2 sizes.
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Post by Gilli on May 9, 2022 20:56:34 GMT
Understandable, a sorrow shared is a sorrow halved. I bet I'm a Ninja/Red Mage main, but I do love DRG Need to level it in Trust again *nods* Funnily, I rarely die as DRG I once got a comm as DRG in an Alex raid and wondered /Is it because I didn't die? Or did you just like my jumping? / Highlight of my DRG career was being the only one left alive in Eden: Sepulchre and with full health. When I jumped off to reset the fight someone in the group asked how come the DRG refrained from jumping off the platform until the end and I was just like "I know how to play my job lul". Second moment was getting 3 commendations twice in a row on Expert dungeons. Had to do a double take both times but that swelled my dps heart 2 sizes. Amazing! I love it! I think my highlight was when I did Seat of Sacrifice for MSQ. The tank used LB3 to counter the "Warrior of Light's" LB4, but apparently a bit too late, cause EVERYONE except for me on NIN to die. Trying to soak the damage of the Meteor markers alone was impossible But because I survived the LB4, we started in Phase 2 afterwards Ooooh nice! Grats!
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 9, 2022 22:59:28 GMT
So I’ve been playing a lot on my PS4 lately and I haven’t seen anyone mention it, so psa: DAI GoTY editon is on sale for 7.99 till may 12. That’s USD. Dunno if PlayStation Store sales are cross regional. Anyway, still primarily a pc player cus mods etc but if you want the console edition, here’s your heads up. Also wondering if the timing of the sale means anything interesting but I dunno. Don’t think it’s the first time it’s been on sale, tho it’s definitely the lowest price I’ve seen personally. Could be trying to make it accessible for new players in prep for the next entry. Also, WAR main ftw. Tho I am leveling DRG atm for the EW melee dps role quests. And I was going on to anyone who would listen (and many more who wouldn’t) about how much Emet reminded me of Solas when Shadowbringers launched. So agree 1000000%. Feel like Ishikawa-san and her team must have played DAI at least a bit. The motivations being so similar, the name. I think Solus zos Galvus as a name predates DAI, but them choosing to make him the ascian with Solas’ motivation doesn’t. Also, he’s a supermage even among his peers, has a special connection to the source of Magic ie the life stream aka the underworld. His primary motivation is duty to his fallen people. Like it’s just too similar.
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Cyberstrike
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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is wanting to have some fun!
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Post by Cyberstrike on May 9, 2022 23:16:19 GMT
I’m glad they abandoned the Origins route. Was not a fan of how much that limited the ability to roleplay your character. For example a Trevelyan can have many different kinds of relationship with their family, but a Cousland only has one. As most of us here are familiar with the traditional "Bioware Formula", we all know they've never truly done completely Blank Slates. For better or worse, they prefer protagonists whose histories are integrated with their worlds. Now they *could* do one for DA4, but nothing thus far has shown me that the current writers are interested in a hero where they cannot reference any history or connections in any meaningful way. Just out curiosity Hanako, since you've alluded to prefering heroes over villains or even jerks, what's your RP rationale for a Cousland Warden that doesn't care about their murdered family? Especially when Bryce and Eleanor are usually portrayed positively? It's a perfectly valid choice, but again, just curious.
I can do without a lot of callbacks, references, and so on because even when it's done in any meaningful way it's often has nothing to do with the current story.
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colfoley
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Post by colfoley on May 9, 2022 23:23:24 GMT
As most of us here are familiar with the traditional "Bioware Formula", we all know they've never truly done completely Blank Slates. For better or worse, they prefer protagonists whose histories are integrated with their worlds. Now they *could* do one for DA4, but nothing thus far has shown me that the current writers are interested in a hero where they cannot reference any history or connections in any meaningful way. Just out curiosity Hanako, since you've alluded to prefering heroes over villains or even jerks, what's your RP rationale for a Cousland Warden that doesn't care about their murdered family? Especially when Bryce and Eleanor are usually portrayed positively? It's a perfectly valid choice, but again, just curious.
I can do without a lot of callbacks, references, and so on because even when it's done in any meaningful way it's often has nothing to do with the current story.
I love continuity.
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