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Post by Sartoz on Jun 13, 2022 10:38:49 GMT
Qun's core concepts are (as I understand it): -Society has a natural order that must be followed.
-The good of society come before personal freedom.
To achieve the above the Qun became authoritarian in practice and beliefs. With titles replacing names, individuality is crushed. If you recall, a Qunari mage Saarabas, killed himself once freed by Hawke because its society fears that magic is uncrontrollable. Brainwashed? perhaps.
Bull had individuality. In this, Bio, erred. It was done, imo, for expediency for the sake of creating a Qunari character commanding humans and having sex with anyone. I may have the latter wrong but his sexual proliclivity seems counter to Qun teachings. I don't buy Bull having a mental callapse and allowed to go into an enemy nation and become an intelligence agent. Again, the Qun, as I understand it, kills/jails non-compliant individuals.
Put another way, authoritarianism fears individualy. Everyone must conform to a set of officially approved social standards. Wrightly or wrongly, my point is that diluting this distinctiveness of the Qunari from Thedas culture dulls them as another foreign invader.
(◔‿◔) _________________________
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 13, 2022 11:31:37 GMT
Dragon Age: Absolution is low budget how do you know? It looks way better!
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Andraste_Reborn
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jun 13, 2022 11:52:37 GMT
Again, the Qun, as I understand it, kills/jails non-compliant individuals. We already know that this is not always the case long before we even encounter Bull. Sten loses his men and his sword, kills an entire family for no reason and then goes AWOL for a year. The Qun might not care about the humans but they'd certainly care about him losing control like that, not to mention the soldiers he lost. But after recovering his weapon, he's not only able to go home, he even gets promoted to Arishok after a few years. Tallis was insubordinate on multiple occasions and yet last we heard of her she's still working for the Ben'Hassrath.
Unity and compliance might be the social ideals of the Qun, but that doesn't mean the Qunari are completely without flexibility. They Qunari understand that a screwdriver and a hammer are different, and they don't destroy any tools if they think they might still be useful, hence offering Hissrad a different path when he could not perform his former function. And if the player doesn't force him to save the Chargers against the orders of his masters, it works perfectly! Even in world states where you never do his personal quest and his company is still alive, he's a completely loyal Qunari agent by the time of Trespasser.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 13, 2022 11:53:14 GMT
Qun's core concepts are (as I understand it): -Society has a natural order that must be followed.
-The good of society come before personal freedom.
To achieve the above the Qun became authoritarian in practice and beliefs. With titles replacing names, individuality is crushed. If you recall, a Qunari mage Saarabas, killed himself once freed by Hawke because its society fears that magic is uncrontrollable. Brainwashed? perhaps.
Bull had individuality. In this, Bio, erred. It was done, imo, for expediency for the sake of creating a Qunari character commanding humans and having sex with anyone. I may have the latter wrong but his sexual proliclivity seems counter to Qun teachings. I don't buy Bull having a mental callapse and allowed to go into an enemy nation and become an intelligence agent. Again, the Qun, as I understand it, kills/jails non-compliant individuals.
Put another way, authoritarianism fears individualy. Everyone must conform to a set of officially approved social standards. Wrightly or wrongly, my point is that diluting this distinctiveness of the Qunari from Thedas culture dulls them as another foreign invader.
(◔‿◔) _________________________
Even if your premise was correct and its really not Bull turned himself in to the Qun to be reducated. He was still quite compliant back in the original thing and was then reeducated and then sent back out. And as far as casual nature of sex it still seems to track with me. I mean hell did Sten even mention sex at all in the first place in Origins? But yeah just imo I suppose but the Qun's nature for sex does track with the rest of religion, afterall they don't have any real sense of individualism and thus no reason to have romantic entanglments...everything is done in the service of the Qun. Need to make another little Qunling? Go to a Tamassaran. Need stress relief? Go to a Tamassaran. And then it goes from there the Qun have, to borrow a phrae, always been pretty woke. Why would they care about what your gender is? All that matters is what your role in the Qun is and if your role in the Qun is a male role, then by golly you are a man because that is what society believes. What is natural and what is important to the individual be damned. No dillution. They are still the same horrible quasi monolithic force they have always been.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Jun 13, 2022 11:57:53 GMT
Headcanoning your character knowing essential information to make the story make sense ain't a good thing. It ain't your job to do the work for the storyteller. If you want to headcanon stuff about your character's background to flesh them out because you're given that leeway in say, an RPG setting, that's fine, but headcanoning away plotholes or things that don't make sense in the story is bad and such inconsistencies should be called out, so that they don't happen again. I understand things can be missed, especially in a game that has multiple narrative threads, but when your main characters in a quest are the main characters in another piece if media, the least you can do as a writer is find a way to reconcile them in such a way that they make sense, especially when one can influence the other. Otherwise, why do they even take place in the same universe or the same timeline? we only play a small fraction of these people's lives at any given time especially given the travel distance involved. Why can't the Inquisitor read prepared intelligence reports on the carriage ride between Halamshiral and Skyhold? And as I pointed out somewhere Leiliana did make reference to the Masked Empire. That's like 75% of the work done. Because those intelligence reports you're talking about are not in the game. Don't confuse headcanon with what is text or even subtext. The only thing in the game is the rumor of Celene and Briala's affair and that Celiene and Gaspard were fighting for the throne. Really, you think the burning of an alienage as a result of a very public implication of Celine and Briala's romantic relationship wouldn't be gossip worthy of Leliana's attention? Worthy of the Inquisitor's attention? Even if, let's say, that you're right and there are intelligence reports that the Inquisitor reads off camera, why is there no mention in dialogue, even the smallest bit, about the very public information that clearly should be considered when deciding what ruler you think is best either for Orlais or for you to blackmail/influence? You get to blackmail Gaspard in the easiest way and have to go out of your way to blackmail all three of them. You can blackmail Celene only if you pretty much metagame and cut yourself out of other obvious paths/puzzle solving because of the halla statue nonsense and see how she's manipulative only because you find a guy she trussed up in bed instead of the easily available information of her ordering the genocide of city elves just to save face in front of the nobility. And don't get me started on how dumb Briala comes off by not even implying to leverage the fact she controls the Eluvian network. She gives the Inquisitor nothing of worth to believe she and her spy network can be of any additional use when you have both Leliana's network and Sera's Red Jennies.
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 13, 2022 13:05:44 GMT
Dragon Age: Absolution is low budget how do you know? It looks way better!
I compare it with the animation title of Alita: Battle Angel.
3D animation is my preference and I find the 2D one low budget. Why? Simple. The graphic animation rendering of 2D is NOT as intensive as 3D and therefore less expensive and time consuming = cost.
As I said, it's a preference.
Btw, better than what?
(◔‿◔) _____________________
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 13, 2022 13:09:40 GMT
how do you know? It looks way better!
I compare it with the animation title of Alita: Battle Angel.
3D animation is my preference and I find the 2D one low budget. Why? Simple. The graphic animation rendering of 2D is NOT as intensive as 3D and therefore less expensive and time consuming = cost.
As I said, it's a preference.
Btw, better than what?
(◔‿◔) _____________________
Not as intensive… but in some ways it is actually cheaper to manipulate 3D models in an animation program than draw each frame of a scene. You only need to create a 3D model once. There are a lot of really ugly 3D animated projects that get made on the cheap for that reason. Really high quality models and animation work like Alita Battle Angel is a lot more than the budget of a series like this could be expected to cover.
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Post by SomberXIII on Jun 13, 2022 13:09:57 GMT
I came back from years long hiatus from the board and still, Sartoz is still making those funny statements.
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 13, 2022 13:12:34 GMT
Qun's core concepts are (as I understand it): -Society has a natural order that must be followed.
-The good of society come before personal freedom.
To achieve the above the Qun became authoritarian in practice and beliefs. With titles replacing names, individuality is crushed. If you recall, a Qunari mage Saarabas, killed himself once freed by Hawke because its society fears that magic is uncrontrollable. Brainwashed? perhaps.
Bull had individuality. In this, Bio, erred. It was done, imo, for expediency for the sake of creating a Qunari character commanding humans and having sex with anyone. I may have the latter wrong but his sexual proliclivity seems counter to Qun teachings. I don't buy Bull having a mental callapse and allowed to go into an enemy nation and become an intelligence agent. Again, the Qun, as I understand it, kills/jails non-compliant individuals.
Put another way, authoritarianism fears individualy. Everyone must conform to a set of officially approved social standards. Wrightly or wrongly, my point is that diluting this distinctiveness of the Qunari from Thedas culture dulls them as another foreign invader.
(◔‿◔) _________________________
Even if your premise was correct and its really not Bull turned himself in to the Qun to be reducated. He was still quite compliant back in the original thing and was then reeducated and then sent back out. And as far as casual nature of sex it still seems to track with me. I mean hell did Sten even mention sex at all in the first place in Origins? But yeah just imo I suppose but the Qun's nature for sex does track with the rest of religion, afterall they don't have any real sense of individualism and thus no reason to have romantic entanglments...everything is done in the service of the Qun. Need to make another little Qunling? Go to a Tamassaran. Need stress relief? Go to a Tamassaran. And then it goes from there the Qun have, to borrow a phrae, always been pretty woke. Why would they care about what your gender is? All that matters is what your role in the Qun is and if your role in the Qun is a male role, then by golly you are a man because that is what society believes. What is natural and what is important to the individual be damned. No dillution. They are still the same horrible quasi monolithic force they have always been.
Sorry, I do not understand woke. Perhaps you can explain?
No dilution? I certainly hope this is the case. Some here, however, think Bio will do such a thing. Frankly, it will not surprise me. Bio has, after all, this tendency to make changes between games. "Artistic intregrity" and all.
(◔‿◔) __________________
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 13, 2022 13:17:34 GMT
I compare it with the animation title of Alita: Battle Angel.
3D animation is my preference and I find the 2D one low budget. Why? Simple. The graphic animation rendering of 2D is NOT as intensive as 3D and therefore less expensive and time consuming = cost.
As I said, it's a preference.
Btw, better than what?
(◔‿◔) _____________________
Not as intensive… but in some ways it is actually cheaper to manipulate 3D models in an animation program than draw each frame of a scene. You only need to create a 3D model once. There are a lot of really ugly 3D animated projects that get made on the cheap for that reason. Really high quality models and animation work like Alita Battle Angel is a lot more than the budget of a series like this could be expected to cover.
Aah! I bet if Alita was manipulated as such the movie would be a disaster. It's a question of visual quality not story content.
EDIT: Ok, we agree then
(◔‿◔) ______________
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 13, 2022 13:31:49 GMT
I came back from years long hiatus from the board and still, Sartoz is still making those funny statements.
LOL,
Glad you like them. Thank you.
(◔‿◔) ______________
(◔‿◔)
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
Posts: 5,646 Likes: 12,850
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 13, 2022 13:32:28 GMT
Not as intensive… but in some ways it is actually cheaper to manipulate 3D models in an animation program than draw each frame of a scene. You only need to create a 3D model once. There are a lot of really ugly 3D animated projects that get made on the cheap for that reason. Really high quality models and animation work like Alita Battle Angel is a lot more than the budget of a series like this could be expected to cover.
Aah! I bet if Alita was manipulated as such the movie would be a disaster. It's a question of visual quality not story content.
EDIT: Ok, we agree then
(◔‿◔) ______________
My point is really just that such quality requires the sort of budget reserved for major studio film projects expected to make a lot of money. That sort of thing was never going to be in the cards for a Dragon Age spinoff show.
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Post by fairdragon on Jun 13, 2022 13:42:26 GMT
how do you know? It looks way better!
I compare it with the animation title of Alita: Battle Angel.
3D animation is my preference and I find the 2D one low budget. Why? Simple. The graphic animation rendering of 2D is NOT as intensive as 3D and therefore less expensive and time consuming = cost.
As I said, it's a preference.
Btw, better than what?
(◔‿◔) _____________________
Better than Dragon age dawn of the seeker.
I find most 3D animation not good because it looks very artificial. While 2d looks more artistic and drawn. If 3d animation is needed than realistic, don't know if that is called animation. the "Jurassic Park" dinosaur or the "Fantastic Beasts" beasts.
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Post by Sartoz on Jun 13, 2022 13:58:47 GMT
I compare it with the animation title of Alita: Battle Angel.
3D animation is my preference and I find the 2D one low budget. Why? Simple. The graphic animation rendering of 2D is NOT as intensive as 3D and therefore less expensive and time consuming = cost.
As I said, it's a preference.
Btw, better than what?
(◔‿◔) _____________________
Better than Dragon age dawn of the seeker. Snip
Agreed
(◔‿◔) ___________
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Heimdall
N6
∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 13, 2022 14:15:12 GMT
I compare it with the animation title of Alita: Battle Angel.
3D animation is my preference and I find the 2D one low budget. Why? Simple. The graphic animation rendering of 2D is NOT as intensive as 3D and therefore less expensive and time consuming = cost.
As I said, it's a preference.
Btw, better than what?
(◔‿◔) _____________________
Better than Dragon age dawn of the seeker.
I find most 3D animation not good because it looks very artificial. While 2d looks more artistic and drawn. If 3d animation is needed than realistic, don't know if that is called animation. the "Jurassic Park" dinosaur or the "Fantastic Beasts" beasts.
3D requires a lot of money and/or a carefully stylized look to look good. Arcane made excellent use of 3D integrated with many beautifully realized 2D elements and effects, which is my go to example for non-realistic 3D done well.
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Post by midnight tea on Jun 13, 2022 16:12:33 GMT
Better than Dragon age dawn of the seeker. I find most 3D animation not good because it looks very artificial. While 2d looks more artistic and drawn. If 3d animation is needed than realistic, don't know if that is called animation. the "Jurassic Park" dinosaur or the "Fantastic Beasts" beasts.
3D requires a lot of money and/or a carefully stylized look to look good. Arcane made excellent use of 3D integrated with many beautifully realized 2D elements and effects, which is my go to example for non-realistic 3D done well. As someone who is really into animation I've been a big fan of '3D-2D hybrid' ever since I saw Paperman short in 2012. Sadly, it's true that - so far - a lot of effort and money needs to be spent for this kind of animation to look good, while at the same time it's obvious that 3D is now often used as a crutch, which some think will allow creating animated shows for quick and cheap, often with mediocre-to-awful results. But some of the cost of shows like "Arcane" or movies like "Into The Spiderverse" is the result of breaking new ground and working out workflows, etc. and that in itself takes a lot of time and money. I myself know from my own (2D) work, that if I want to try something new, more effort may be put into finding that 'new' or 'different' or 'mine' than drawing after I actually find it (ironically, finding the simple+effective solution often takes the most time). Similarly, it took animators and designers of Spiderverse and Arcane years to establish their style - but now that they have it, the established/streamlined process should make animating - and even incremental innovation within - faster and less demanding. Also, "Spiderman: Into The Multiverse" and "Arcane" making waves as big as they did (as did innovations for 2D that look like 3D, like " Klaus") means that there will be now more push in that direction by those with cash to spend - as the success of both has exposed the audience to 3D animation that looks and moves differently to established 3D formulas, and they loved it so far - so we will eventually see novel ways 3D is animated and textured that go beyond indie experiments and 'unicorns'. And as far as costs go... anime ventured a lot into 3D/2D hybrid direction - and while there's a deluge of cheap and horribly-looking shows (with " Ex-Arm" being legendarily bad), there are also really well-animated and innovative 3D anime that no doubt didn't cost an arm and a leg (the art of anime is, in many respects, finding ways to animate the cheapest...), so experience of anime animators can help lowering the costs further. ...with that said, while money is obviously not everything, virtually anything good requires resources, time and effort, stylized 3D or no - at some point there's no shortcut one can take to make things look or feel good, and I don't think anyone here wants art and entertainment to be crafted by chronically underpaid and unappreciated creators. The whole "artist should suffer for their art" should die in a fire, right?
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Post by biggydx on Jun 13, 2022 16:28:57 GMT
I feel like such a fly on the wall when it comes to Dragon Ags lore stuff. Most of my understanding is tertiary tbh
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Post by catcher on Jun 13, 2022 17:15:03 GMT
I mean hell did Sten even mention sex at all in the first place in Origins? Can't believe I had to be the one to remind Colfoley of this gem from Origins. One of my all time favorites even when it ends the available companion conversations and repeats 237 times. Do yourself a favor and find it online so you can marvel at Claudia Black and Mark Hildreth working together on this little piece. You're welcome.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 13, 2022 17:40:42 GMT
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Post by colfoley on Jun 13, 2022 18:06:46 GMT
I mean hell did Sten even mention sex at all in the first place in Origins? Can't believe I had to be the one to remind Colfoley of this gem from Origins. One of my all time favorites even when it ends the available companion conversations and repeats 237 times. Do yourself a favor and find it online so you can marvel at Claudia Black and Mark Hildreth working together on this little piece. You're welcome. I had completely forgotten about that! Though not sure I ever heard it in game but that does remind me of gamermd's very funny pantomime videos back in the day.
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Post by Rascoth on Jun 13, 2022 18:15:02 GMT
I came back from years long hiatus from the board and still, Sartoz is still making those funny statements. At least you know you're in the right place
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 13, 2022 18:26:42 GMT
There's no need to introduce a new faction with the Qunari as the war being waged by the Aantam was done without permission from the rest of the Triumvirate. So there is already a major internal division happening here. No doubt the PC will be able to exploit this. Actually, going by the lore in World of Thedas, the Arishok doesn't have to get the permission of the other two branches of the Triumverate because it is his role to make strategic warfare choices. I think this was the reason nobody sent ships to collect him in DA2 because he hadn't asked for them. However, since his actions there nearly messed up the Llomerryn Accord it is possible there was some sort of adjustment in the autonomy of his role when Sten took over. Nevertheless, I am somewhat skeptical about the claim concerning the Antaam not acting with the approval of Par Vollen. I suspect that is what they want people to believe. In the epilogue to Trespasser, if you were working with the Qun and place the Inquisition under the Divine, they even write to her asking for her support against Tevinter. A rather strange request if the Antaam are acting in opposition to the will of the Qun. Interestingly, Rasaan (who is supposed to be the next Ariqun) is in Tevinter learning about Solas without official sanction either. So... more division. Again, what makes you think she is acting without official sanction? Her declaration to the companions could mean anything. She is there without the approval of the Arishok; she is there without the approval of Tevinter; or the knowledge of the Divine (see above) or she is simply there covertly. I would be more inclined to think she was working with the blessing of the Ariqun in view of the fact that she is actively hunting for information about Solas and it is acknowledged by Charter that the Ben'Hassrath, who also work for the Ariqun, know more about Solas' movements than anyone else. Also, whilst she implied that the Ben'Hassrath weren't co-operating with the Inquisition, in the previous story Gatt does seem to be in contact. In Three Trees to Midnight, the Huntsman was sent by the Antaam to check up on Bas-taar, presumably because the leadership suspect he is not doing things as he should. Did the Antaam really not know that the Huntsman was a Ben'Hassrath? It is odd that they constantly refer to the Antaam rather than the Arishok, though. I wonder if we are going to learn that Tevinter did succeed in assassinating Sten, as they had been trying to do since he took over as Arishok. That might explain the Antaam launching their reprisal attack without waiting for the other two to appointment a replacement, so technically that would be without their approval. So I am currently suspending belief on just how divided the Qun are in reality. I suspect it is what they want Solas to believe. He clearly wasn't happy that their entire attention wasn't focused on Tevinter, which is why his follower was deliberately trying to bring Par Vollen into the war. It also means that he has to keep a watch on multiple fronts and that means he is more likely to miss something or someone.
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Post by necrowaif on Jun 13, 2022 19:19:34 GMT
BioWare @biowareVarric: If you've got something to say, just spit it out. Anders: Are you sure you want to encourage me? I might be about to confess my undying love. Varric: I get that a lot. www.instagram.com/letitiadraws/#dragonage #dragonagefanart #Anders #Varric
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"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Jun 14, 2022 0:29:13 GMT
I wonder if we are going to learn that Tevinter did succeed in assassinating Sten, as they had been trying to do since he took over as Arishok. That might explain the Antaam launching their reprisal attack without waiting for the other two to appointment a replacement, so technically that would be without their approval. A retaliatory attack would explain why the antaam are fighting without the support of the other 2 branches and also why their tactics don't seem to match the careful style of Stenishock described in WoT. Would also explain why rasaan is not at the arishocks side in TN. Hmm I wonder if Rasaan has gone rogue and taken over the antaam after Sten's assassination?
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
Posts: 30,743 Likes: 111,776
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Hrungr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Jun 14, 2022 0:29:52 GMT
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah I keep reading Thedas as Theseus and I need someone to come up with a “Ship of Thedas” right now!
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