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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 6, 2019 22:05:21 GMT
That letter looks identical to the one you see if you chose the Qun over the Chargers. Definitely seems like an oversight.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by TabithaTH on Jan 6, 2019 22:08:07 GMT
She could have arranged the alliance in the two years between the main campaign and Trespasser .
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 6, 2019 22:21:50 GMT
She could have arranged the alliance in the two years between the main campaign and Trespasser . Why would she though? And why would the Qun even propose it once Corypheus was defeated since him and the Breach were why they did.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jan 6, 2019 22:29:38 GMT
That letter looks identical to the one you see if you chose the Qun over the Chargers. Definitely seems like an oversight. Well if it's identical to the one you get with Qun alliance then it's an oversight. She could have arranged the alliance in the two years between the main campaign and Trespasser . Why would she though? And why would the Qun even propose it once Corypheus was defeated since him and the Breach were why they did. To keep the Inquisition off their backs for the Dragon's Breath plan?, if it's not an oversight that is. Totally within Hissrad's scope.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 6, 2019 22:31:10 GMT
She could have arranged the alliance in the two years between the main campaign and Trespasser . Why would she though? And why would the Qun even propose it once Corypheus was defeated since him and the Breach were why they did. Weren't Josie and Inky talking in Trespasser how last two years may have been even busier than when they were fighting Corypheus? There was a ton of clean-up to do and the Qunari were probably no less interested in trying to prevent Venatori from shipping too much red lyrium to the Empire (we know from comic books that they keep trying) - so they may have allied for this or any other cause they thought would be beneficial for them. Sending positive signals would also help placate Southern leaders (and the Inquisitor was one of the most prominent, if not THE most prominent Southern leader at the time) or divert attention from Dragon's Breath.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 6, 2019 22:32:23 GMT
That letter looks identical to the one you see if you chose the Qun over the Chargers. Definitely seems like an oversight. Well if it's identical to the one you get with Qun alliance then it's an oversight. It is. I ally with them in most playthroughs and there is nothing different, nothing I can see anyway. I bet if they kept scrolling the Triumvirate response would r identical too.
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Post by phoray on Jan 6, 2019 22:34:21 GMT
Well, that cements getting Bull and making him Vashoth every time, if the default otherwise is making a dumb alliance with the Qun
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 6, 2019 22:37:10 GMT
Well, that cements getting Bull and making him Vashoth every time, if the default otherwise is making a dumb alliance with the Qun I see nothing dumb with the alliance. We accomplished the reason why we allied and you save a lot more people with them than with the Chargers. I’m curious to see whether our past protagonists being respected by the Qun will open up new possibilities or not.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jan 6, 2019 22:42:16 GMT
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jan 6, 2019 22:47:10 GMT
Well, that cements getting Bull and making him Vashoth every time, if the default otherwise is making a dumb alliance with the Qun I see nothing dumb with the alliance. We accomplished the reason why we allied and you save a lot more people with them than with the Chargers. I’m curious to see whether our past protagonists being respected by the Qun will open up new possibilities or not. I don't think the Inquisitor is actually respected in any of the possible circumstances, personally. Hawke could be by the old Arishock, but he's no longer in charge regardless of world state I think? But I suppose he might have sent on a message that mentioned some of the bas being worthy of respect in Kirkwall even if he died. I just don't think it would end up mattering at this point.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 6, 2019 22:57:27 GMT
Well, that cements getting Bull and making him Vashoth every time, if the default otherwise is making a dumb alliance with the Qun I see nothing dumb with the alliance. We accomplished the reason why we allied and you save a lot more people with them than with the Chargers. I’m curious to see whether our past protagonists being respected by the Qun will open up new possibilities or not. Well, from the looks of it, we saved more soldiers otherwise willing to kill more Thedosians as they attempt to subjugate the continent yet again... It is, however, a thing that becomes obvious only after Trespasser. From the in-world perspective, prior to Dragon's Breath, it is not a crazy option to ally with efficient, militaristic force against Corypheus and the prospect of an end of the world. And, if we're allied with them, they still DO attempt to have an alliance of some sort with Inquisition/Chantry and there's a rumor in Val Royeaux that they're asking Divine Victoria to assist them with something... prooooobably something related to the conquest of Tevinter, but then again - given that both factions are traditionally not very happy with magic being around - it might as well be something related to Solas or the Veil (given that we know now that they've been researching its strengthening in Vir Dirthata). Either way, given that the state of alliance with the Qunari is directly related to Bull's fate AND because we have enough evidence to suggest that the Qunari will be significantly involved in future plotline, I think that the alliance or its lack will have an impact on the story. Still, given events in Trespasser, I wouldn't hold my breath about our alliance not ending with us being stabbed in the back at some point... I guess it depends what the story will be about.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 6, 2019 22:58:19 GMT
I see nothing dumb with the alliance. We accomplished the reason why we allied and you save a lot more people with them than with the Chargers. I’m curious to see whether our past protagonists being respected by the Qun will open up new possibilities or not. I don't think the Inquisitor is actually respected in any of the possible circumstances, personally. Hawke could be by the old Arishock, but he's no longer in charge regardless of world state I think? But I suppose he might have sent on a message that mentioned some of the bas being worthy of respect in Kirkwall even if he died. I just don't think it would end up mattering at this point. There's a reason Bull calls you "bas" if you go that route (besides the pun lol). As far as the Qun is concerned, the Inquisitor and their Inquisition... all bas, all things, not worthy of respect.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jan 6, 2019 23:05:27 GMT
I also think alliance with Qunari is pointless in the long run, due to the Qun's views that anyone outside it must be forced into it or killed. In DA2 and DAI the Qun disavows the actions of the Arishok and Viddasala, but that's just for show. Mayhaps we will get the opportunity to topple any of the Triumvirate in DA4, we did get the option to kill the Arishok in DA2, but i think disposing of the Ariqun will have the biggest effect.
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Post by phoray on Jan 6, 2019 23:11:59 GMT
Mayhaps we will get the opportunity to topple any of the Triumvirate in DA4, we did get the option to kill the Arishok in DA2, but i think disposing of the Ariqun will have the biggest effect. I think the only way we'd accomplish any change is if we pulled on them what they tried to pull on the south. A massive takeout of multiple tiers of leadership. They're a military- killing the tip top leader just means that the leadership falls to the next in line with little drama.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 6, 2019 23:16:07 GMT
I'd be more interested in reforming the Qun than eliminating it. For all its flaws, it has a lot of merits: no starvation, actual technological advancements, racial equality, care for the elderly and infirm. I've been thinking of a modern AU where the Qun is more philosophy than dogma, a set of loose guidelines rather than rules.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 6, 2019 23:18:34 GMT
I don't think the Inquisitor is actually respected in any of the possible circumstances, personally. Hawke could be by the old Arishock, but he's no longer in charge regardless of world state I think? But I suppose he might have sent on a message that mentioned some of the bas being worthy of respect in Kirkwall even if he died. I just don't think it would end up mattering at this point. There's a reason Bull calls you "bas" if you go that route (besides the pun lol). As far as the Qun is concerned, the Inquisitor and their Inquisition... all bas, all things, not worthy of respect. Yea, unlike DAO and DAII we didn't have a chance to rub elbows with current or future Arishoks - we were given a spy that, while smart, was at the cusp of becoming Tal-Vashoth himself if pushed. Nevermind that being considered basalit-an ain't really something that would prevent Qunari from doing what they want to do anyway, even if it opens a small field for negotiation... It'd be kind of hilarious if it turned out that beating Viddassala and thus thwarting Dragon's Breath would be something that the Qunari would consider worthy of respect.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jan 6, 2019 23:19:31 GMT
Well taking on all 3 Salasari would be quite difficult, mayhaps if allied with Tevinter and Fog Warriors, Fex. Not to mention all the feels if in your world state Sten is Arishok, "nothing personal, Qunari."
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 6, 2019 23:24:25 GMT
I'd be more interesting in reforming the Qun than eliminating it. For all its flaws, it has a lot of merits: no starvation, actual technological advancements, racial equality, care for the elderly and infirm. I've been thinking of a modern AU where the Qun is more philosophy than dogma, a set of loose guidelines rather than rules. I wouldn't be surprised if the teachings of Koslun were supposed to be just guidelines or something else entirely... but the usual happened and that interpretation got replaced by zealotry.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 6, 2019 23:29:30 GMT
I'd be more interesting in reforming the Qun than eliminating it. For all its flaws, it has a lot of merits: no starvation, actual technological advancements, racial equality, care for the elderly and infirm. I've been thinking of a modern AU where the Qun is more philosophy than dogma, a set of loose guidelines rather than rules. I wouldn't be surprised if the teachings of Koslun were supposed to be just guidelines or something else entirely... but the usual happened and that interpretation got replaced by zealotry. Yes, this is my thought as well. Like some fundamentalist interpretation of the Tome of Koslun got adopted as social-religious law when all he was really trying to say is, "You've got dragon blood in you. Calm the fuck down."
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jan 7, 2019 0:03:48 GMT
I wouldn't be surprised if the teachings of Koslun were supposed to be just guidelines or something else entirely... but the usual happened and that interpretation got replaced by zealotry. Yes, this is my thought as well. Like some fundamentalist interpretation of the Tome of Koslun got adopted as social-religious law when all he was really trying to say is, "You've got dragon blood in you. Calm the fuck down." Canto 1 from the Tome of Koslun reeeeeallly makes me wonder if it's referring to how ancient spirits became "real" enough to take on physical forms such as the races we all know and love in modern Thedas. And the end of Canto 4 makes me wonder if that's advice/reassurance for newly-physical spirits who may be worried about becoming demons in the physical world they've embraced. One of Solas' banters with Cole echoes the "it's your choice" line that we see in the Canto. I think that's what twigs me. Cole: You're different, Solas. Sharper. You're in both places. Solas: I visit the Fade regularly. Perhaps you are sensing traces of it. Solas: You are a spirit who crossed the Veil and took human form. Cole: Spirit or demon. Solas: The two are not so dissimilar, Cole. Solas: While the world may exert a pull in one direction or another, the choice is ultimately yours.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 7, 2019 0:14:58 GMT
Yes, this is my thought as well. Like some fundamentalist interpretation of the Tome of Koslun got adopted as social-religious law when all he was really trying to say is, "You've got dragon blood in you. Calm the fuck down." Canto 1 from the Tome of Koslun reeeeeallly makes me wonder if it's referring to how ancient spirits became "real" enough to take on physical forms such as the races we all know and love in modern Thedas. And the end of Canto 4 makes me wonder if that's advice/reassurance for newly-physical spirits who may be worried about becoming demons in the physical world they've embraced. One of Solas' banters with Cole echoes the "it's your choice" line that we see in the Canto. I think that's what twigs me. Cole: You're different, Solas. Sharper. You're in both places. Solas: I visit the Fade regularly. Perhaps you are sensing traces of it. Solas: You are a spirit who crossed the Veil and took human form. Cole: Spirit or demon. Solas: The two are not so dissimilar, Cole. Solas: While the world may exert a pull in one direction or another, the choice is ultimately yours.
I can't say I've ever thought about it like that - I always took that canto as more philosophical than literal - but it's an interesting idea! I hope we learn more about Koslun in the next game.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 7, 2019 0:21:26 GMT
Yes, this is my thought as well. Like some fundamentalist interpretation of the Tome of Koslun got adopted as social-religious law when all he was really trying to say is, "You've got dragon blood in you. Calm the fuck down." Canto 1 from the Tome of Koslun reeeeeallly makes me wonder if it's referring to how ancient spirits became "real" enough to take on physical forms such as the races we all know and love in modern Thedas. And the end of Canto 4 makes me wonder if that's advice/reassurance for newly-physical spirits who may be worried about becoming demons in the physical world they've embraced. One of Solas' banters with Cole echoes the "it's your choice" line that we see in the Canto. I think that's what twigs me. Cole: You're different, Solas. Sharper. You're in both places. Solas: I visit the Fade regularly. Perhaps you are sensing traces of it. Solas: You are a spirit who crossed the Veil and took human form. Cole: Spirit or demon. Solas: The two are not so dissimilar, Cole. Solas: While the world may exert a pull in one direction or another, the choice is ultimately yours.
True, there are elements to Koslun's teachings, and especially Canto 1 that sound quite... Solas'y. It'd be kinda funny if Koslun's epiphany was predominantly a long chat with the Dread Wolf in the Fade... and then, instead of providing enlightenment, it was mangled to oblivion. Solas has enough reasons to dislike their society on its own, but if it turned out that Qunari largely misinterpreted the teachings brought by Koslun, then it would explain why Solas is offended by the Qun.
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Post by ladyiolanthe on Jan 7, 2019 1:10:12 GMT
True, there are elements to Koslun's teachings, and especially Canto 1 that sound quite... Solas'y. It'd be kinda funny if Koslun's epiphany was predominantly a long chat with the Dread Wolf in the Fade... and then, instead of providing enlightenment, it was mangled to oblivion. Solas has enough reasons to dislike their society on its own, but i f it turned out that Qunari largely misinterpreted the teachings brought by Koslun, then it would explain why Solas is offended by the Qun.I have mused on this as well, yes.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Jan 7, 2019 3:17:28 GMT
And thus Solas gets another hash mark in the "Plans that Went Completely Pear-Shaped" column.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 7, 2019 5:15:31 GMT
Canto 1 from the Tome of Koslun reeeeeallly makes me wonder if it's referring to how ancient spirits became "real" enough to take on physical forms such as the races we all know and love in modern Thedas. And the end of Canto 4 makes me wonder if that's advice/reassurance for newly-physical spirits who may be worried about becoming demons in the physical world they've embraced. One of Solas' banters with Cole echoes the "it's your choice" line that we see in the Canto. I think that's what twigs me. Cole: You're different, Solas. Sharper. You're in both places. Solas: I visit the Fade regularly. Perhaps you are sensing traces of it. Solas: You are a spirit who crossed the Veil and took human form. Cole: Spirit or demon. Solas: The two are not so dissimilar, Cole. Solas: While the world may exert a pull in one direction or another, the choice is ultimately yours.
True, there are elements to Koslun's teachings, and especially Canto 1 that sound quite... Solas'y. It'd be kinda funny if Koslun's epiphany was predominantly a long chat with the Dread Wolf in the Fade... and then, instead of providing enlightenment, it was mangled to oblivion. Solas has enough reasons to dislike their society on its own, but if it turned out that Qunari largely misinterpreted the teachings brought by Koslun, then it would explain why Solas is offended by the Qun. Well that's something I had never considered. Granted this sounds like stuff from the real 'deep lore', and considering I am not all that much of an expert on the ins and outs of the specifics of Qunari philosophy.
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