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Post by colfoley on Jun 8, 2023 23:07:23 GMT
My long gaming nightmare continues. What a lot of cack aimed at 10 year old boys (Ooh big shiny sword and blasty blasty at things in your coop mmo lootie shooter). Baldur's Gate 3 cannot come soon enough! just to clarify, shade at FF VII?
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Post by The Loyal Nub on Jun 8, 2023 23:42:35 GMT
My long gaming nightmare continues. What a lot of cack aimed at 10 year old boys (Ooh big shiny sword and blasty blasty at things in your coop mmo lootie shooter). Baldur's Gate 3 cannot come soon enough! just to clarify, shade at FF VII? Pretty much all of it was uninteresting rehashes of games already out there. I wasn't throwing shade at any specific game. There's just been a drought lately of story-driven, single player games.
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Post by smilesja on Jun 9, 2023 0:07:10 GMT
My long gaming nightmare continues. What a lot of cack aimed at 10 year old boys (Ooh big shiny sword and blasty blasty at things in your coop mmo lootie shooter). Baldur's Gate 3 cannot come soon enough! 
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Post by Gwydden on Jun 9, 2023 1:16:56 GMT
And this is why I probably won't be watching live any more shows and will just follow up on news afterwards. That speech at the end was actually the second time in the show that he spoke in such a way to hype people up for something he knew was going to disappoint as soon as he finished his sentence. They showed FF7 Ever Crisis and after that Geoff goes "speaking of Final Fantasy..." and people in the audience immediately started getting vocal with hype, probably expecting FF16 or FF7 Rebirth at that point, but that was just a segue into a sponsor add. Once might be a coincidence, twice I'm sure it was the point. Frankly, I don't think the Dragon Age fandom is relevant enough in the Year of Our Lord 2023 to be worth blueballing. It's probably just a coincidence that his preamble could just as well have applied to Dreadwolf, and I don't think anyone here can pretend that announcement would have caused as much of a stir, even as someone who doesn't care at all for Final Fantasy.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 9, 2023 1:29:16 GMT
And this is why I probably won't be watching live any more shows and will just follow up on news afterwards. That speech at the end was actually the second time in the show that he spoke in such a way to hype people up for something he knew was going to disappoint as soon as he finished his sentence. They showed FF7 Ever Crisis and after that Geoff goes "speaking of Final Fantasy..." and people in the audience immediately started getting vocal with hype, probably expecting FF16 or FF7 Rebirth at that point, but that was just a segue into a sponsor add. Once might be a coincidence, twice I'm sure it was the point. Frankly, I don't think the Dragon Age fandom is relevant enough in the Year of Our Lord 2023 to be worth blueballing. It's probably just a coincidence that his preamble could just as well have applied to Dreadwolf, and I don't think anyone here can pretend that announcement would have caused as much of a stir, even as someone who doesn't care at all for Final Fantasy. It seems that conspiracy theories are alive and well in the Year of Our Lord 2023 as well.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Jun 9, 2023 4:32:31 GMT
And this is why I probably won't be watching live any more shows and will just follow up on news afterwards. That speech at the end was actually the second time in the show that he spoke in such a way to hype people up for something he knew was going to disappoint as soon as he finished his sentence. They showed FF7 Ever Crisis and after that Geoff goes "speaking of Final Fantasy..." and people in the audience immediately started getting vocal with hype, probably expecting FF16 or FF7 Rebirth at that point, but that was just a segue into a sponsor add. Once might be a coincidence, twice I'm sure it was the point. Frankly, I don't think the Dragon Age fandom is relevant enough in the Year of Our Lord 2023 to be worth blueballing. It's probably just a coincidence that his preamble could just as well have applied to Dreadwolf, and I don't think anyone here can pretend that announcement would have caused as much of a stir, even as someone who doesn't care at all for Final Fantasy. It's an egregious way to get people to open their ears to make sure they're not asleep in their chairs because the show is boring by not actually having an interesting show (which a good portion of it wasn't) but by hitting someone on the head with a newspaper to tell them to stay awake for something they might not be interested in. It's not about the actual games that were used as bait but the fact there was bait like that to begin with, it's not a good practice. Sure it's effective but it's not nice. And I don't think Keighley doesn't consider this fandom to be worth rousing even the slightest bit considering it's been faithfully watching each VGA hoping for even the smallest crumbs about the next DA. It's very Pavlovian. Frankly, I don't think the Dragon Age fandom is relevant enough in the Year of Our Lord 2023 to be worth blueballing. It's probably just a coincidence that his preamble could just as well have applied to Dreadwolf, and I don't think anyone here can pretend that announcement would have caused as much of a stir, even as someone who doesn't care at all for Final Fantasy. It seems that conspiracy theories are alive and well in the Year of Our Lord 2023 as well. Was that meant to be shade directed at me? 
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Post by The Elder King on Jun 9, 2023 6:18:41 GMT
The tease about FF turning to be a sponsor was likely a hint at the end of the SGF being the new trailer of Rebirth. I don’t have a great memory about those, but I heard people saying he did similar things in the past.
As always, the event has a big chunk of it that it’s just boring. And it felt worse once I realize the show wasn’t even 2 hours long.
Thankfully, in terms of games to wait for, I’m all packed until December, between XVI, BG3 and Spider-Man 2, plus a few games in the backlog. It’s going to be interesting, since Atlus spoiled their games for the Xbox Showcase, how apart FF VII Rebirth and P3Reload will be from each other. I might go to play the former first if they’re too close, given the story changes, which could be interesting and concerning at the same time.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 9, 2023 8:17:14 GMT
 I think the first one to the left of the middle should be in the middle, it looks like their headpiece would look like the middle one if seen from above rather than from the profile. Also, behold, my very deeply questionable art skills with which I attempt to at least clarify what the headpiece is doing lol -- essentially a Parasaurolophus type of design Just want to draw attention again to the fact that if you ignore the staff and look at the head piece on the figure in front of the city (shown alongside the central headdress in the cinematic), it looks far more like the single straight one to the left of it. So, it is possible that the profiled head is the central headdress and the figure with the staff is the one to the left. That said, if only 6 heads are shown, it would make sense that they are paired up as shown in the overlay, leaving the central headdress symbol unaccounted for. Whilst the staff does recall dragon horns, that would hardly be a clue since we know the dragon form was one reserved for the gods and their chosen, not just Mythal, and in any case if this is showing their status immediately prior to their imprisonment, Mythal should not be among them because she is already dead. Remember also that originally they were going to show some additional mosaic murals in Trespasser, which can be found in the data files. These depict three headdress symbols alongside that of the Dread Wolf:  At least 2 of these would seem to match with those on cinematic and the heads, with the third possibly also there. Everyone has been assuming that those surrounding the city in the cinematic image correspond to the surviving Creators but what if they don't? What if they belong to the Forgotten Ones, who are said by the Dalish to have recognised Fen'Harel as one of their own and betrayed by him? We only know about three of them by name but could their actual number have been 7? They were leaders of the rebels who worked with him to overthrow the Creators. This might well mean the alternative theory concerning the Old Gods could be true, that they were part of Solas' ritual to entrap the Creators but what he didn't tell them was that it would imprison them too; hence the betrayal. They then spoke to human mages via the Fade in order to eventually free themselves. This would tie in with the fact that in that old 2018 teaser, 5 of the discs in the circle are blacked out, with only two still golden, corresponding to the destruction/freeing of 5 of the Old Gods, breaking their seal and thus weakening the magic containing the Creators. It would also account for why Solas was beside himself at the thought of the Grey Wardens killing the last two Old Gods because that would free the Creators before he was ready to confront them. It would also mean that the two figures he painted in the 2020 trailer were the last two Old Gods, his former allies. I just suspect that the reason they have revealed things in the way they have is that it is not entirely as people have interpreted it. Those headdresses do not relate to the Creators, the elven gods of the Dalish, but to the Old Gods, possibly the Forgotten Ones of the Dalish, who are associated with the Black City and the Blight. They are also known to take the form of dragons.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Jun 9, 2023 10:20:05 GMT
Is it possible the Forgotten ones weren't elves at all, but something else... like, maybe Titans? It would explain why their place is the Void, why they were enemies of the Evanuris, and why Solas might have felt sympathy for them (perhaps he didn't so much trap them in the void as he did protect them?).
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 9, 2023 11:03:22 GMT
Is it possible the Forgotten ones weren't elves at all, but something else... like, maybe Titans? I doubt they were Titans, although that would explain why we had never heard about them before the ToM codices and the Descent. However, Felassan's story has a Forgotten One, Anaris, interacting with Andruil and the nature of their battle suggests they were similarly matched and mobile, whereas the stories with the Titans suggest large creatures, such as we encountered in the Descent, that essentially are part of the earth itself. Hence when they stir and become agitated, they cause earthquakes. The way I understand it, when the elves first started to populate the surface of Thedas, their use of magic in creating structures disturbed a Titan, or more than one, causing the earth to move and associated destruction. The elves saw this as a direct attack on them, although it is possible the Titans weren't deliberately doing this and it was just a side-effect of their movements, so they called upon their leaders to enact retribution, in particularly Elgar'nan. He got carried away with his vengeance, so Mythal intervened and put the Titan(s) to sleep with her magic, in such as way that it severed their connection to the dwarves. At least one of the Titans appears to have been slain though and Mythal used the dwarves to mine its corpse for lyrium. At least I hope that was the case and it wasn't a living Titan they were doing this to. I assumed it was dead because the lyrium was in mineral form (dried blood) as opposed to liquid such as we found associated with a living Titan. That said, the mural in Trespasser by Solas does seem to show an actual biped creature being destroyed, so I suppose this could have been some sort of avatar of the Titan, much like the crystal creature we fought in the Descent. I still don't think they were the Forgotten Ones though, although it is true that people forgot the existence of the Titans and I also take your point about the Void. However, it is also a possibility that the Forgotten Ones used the Void in order to stay out of the control of the Evanuris/Creators. From Gelduran's words in the codex in JoH, they clearly didn't acknowledge the deity of the Evanuris or their right to rule, which would definitely align them with Solas once he chose to reject the Evanuris himself. At present I am working to a theory that the reason they became entrapped in the Deep Roads is that was their hideout (as the Dalish legend suggests) and each had their own particularly base separate from the others (possibly for security should one of their number be captured and tortured for information). Solas asked them to return there and enter Uthenera so they could co-ordinate with him for his ritual to entrap the Creators. So they were integral to the creation of the Veil and the sealing of the Black City but the magic he used also sealed them in (may be originally they had eluvians they could use to escape which were destroyed in the process). Whatever the case, now their only means of escape would be to break the seal on the Black City (achieved by nurturing the development of Tevinter until they could accomplish this). Then call tainted beings to their location so they could tunnel in and free them. This would fit with a lot of what we know concerning this period of history. It would also explain why human mages only started hearing the Old Gods after the Veil went up and why they didn't attempt to use the elves because most of the survivors were pro-Evanuris.
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Post by TabithaTH on Jun 9, 2023 11:28:03 GMT
And this is why I probably won't be watching live any more shows and will just follow up on news afterwards. That speech at the end was actually the second time in the show that he spoke in such a way to hype people up for something he knew was going to disappoint as soon as he finished his sentence. They showed FF7 Ever Crisis and after that Geoff goes "speaking of Final Fantasy..." and people in the audience immediately started getting vocal with hype, probably expecting FF16 or FF7 Rebirth at that point, but that was just a segue into a sponsor add. Once might be a coincidence, twice I'm sure it was the point. Frankly, I don't think the Dragon Age fandom is relevant enough in the Year of Our Lord 2023 to be worth blueballing. It's probably just a coincidence that his preamble could just as well have applied to Dreadwolf, and I don't think anyone here can pretend that announcement would have caused as much of a stir, even as someone who doesn't care at all for Final Fantasy. Yeah, I quickly moved on from thinking Bioware to being convinced it was Bethesda and Starfield.
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Post by Solas on Jun 9, 2023 12:06:09 GMT
In fairness geoff also had some bioware devs going ?! At that bit
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Post by Sandetiger on Jun 9, 2023 12:45:55 GMT
 I think the first one to the left of the middle should be in the middle, it looks like their headpiece would look like the middle one if seen from above rather than from the profile. Also, behold, my very deeply questionable art skills with which I attempt to at least clarify what the headpiece is doing lol -- essentially a Parasaurolophus type of design Just want to draw attention again to the fact that if you ignore the staff and look at the head piece on the figure in front of the city (shown alongside the central headdress in the cinematic), it looks far more like the single straight one to the left of it. So, it is possible that the profiled head is the central headdress and the figure with the staff is the one to the left. That said, if only 6 heads are shown, it would make sense that they are paired up as shown in the overlay, leaving the central headdress symbol unaccounted for. Whilst the staff does recall dragon horns, that would hardly be a clue since we know the dragon form was one reserved for the gods and their chosen, not just Mythal, and in any case if this is showing their status immediately prior to their imprisonment, Mythal should not be among them because she is already dead. Remember also that originally they were going to show some additional mosaic murals in Trespasser, which can be found in the data files. These depict three headdress symbols alongside that of the Dread Wolf:  At least 2 of these would seem to match with those on cinematic and the heads, with the third possibly also there. Everyone has been assuming that those surrounding the city in the cinematic image correspond to the surviving Creators but what if they don't? What if they belong to the Forgotten Ones, who are said by the Dalish to have recognised Fen'Harel as one of their own and betrayed by him? We only know about three of them by name but could their actual number have been 7? They were leaders of the rebels who worked with him to overthrow the Creators. This might well mean the alternative theory concerning the Old Gods could be true, that they were part of Solas' ritual to entrap the Creators but what he didn't tell them was that it would imprison them too; hence the betrayal. They then spoke to human mages via the Fade in order to eventually free themselves. This would tie in with the fact that in that old 2018 teaser, 5 of the discs in the circle are blacked out, with only two still golden, corresponding to the destruction/freeing of 5 of the Old Gods, breaking their seal and thus weakening the magic containing the Creators. It would also account for why Solas was beside himself at the thought of the Grey Wardens killing the last two Old Gods because that would free the Creators before he was ready to confront them. It would also mean that the two figures he painted in the 2020 trailer were the last two Old Gods, his former allies. I just suspect that the reason they have revealed things in the way they have is that it is not entirely as people have interpreted it. Those headdresses do not relate to the Creators, the elven gods of the Dalish, but to the Old Gods, possibly the Forgotten Ones of the Dalish, who are associated with the Black City and the Blight. They are also known to take the form of dragons. I think it goes without saying that there's some sort of connection between the evanuris and the old gods, but I'm not sure I'm completely with you on this one. I will say that I'm personally pretty damn sure the third one depicts the story that Solas tells you about Falon'Din when at the Temple of Mythal-- (bloodo typo is mine, but I haven't felt like redoing it lol)  As far as the upright figures and their headpieces in the mosaics go, I think they all match the 2022 cinematic tambourine sans Solas's doghead This one should match the vinyl headpiece just right of the middle:  and this one matches the right-middle from the vinyl--  and this one matches the left-middle head from the vinyl-- 
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Post by RelevantRevenant on Jun 9, 2023 14:35:56 GMT
In fairness geoff also had some bioware devs going ?! At that bit It's rather hilarious when you think about it; people actually working at BioWare who thought they were suddenly dropping a trailer/announcing DA:D release date, etc.!
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 9, 2023 15:03:29 GMT
I think it goes without saying that there's some sort of connection between the evanuris and the old gods, but I'm not sure I'm completely with you on this one. I will say that I'm personally pretty damn sure the third one depicts the story that Solas tells you about Falon'Din when at the Temple of Mythal-- (bloodo typo is mine, but I haven't felt like redoing it lol) Of course, it is possible that they changed their minds on this, which is why this set of mosaics were missed out, or rather only the one with Fen'Harel was included. If the third set relate to putting Falon'Din in his place, then it would seem there were three other gods who Falon'Din recruited to work with Mythal against him, leaving another group of three who didn't get involved, one of whom is most likely to be Dirthamen because of his close association with Falon'Din. If the spiky headdress is Sylaise, then at least one of the others is likely June as they always seem to be in cahoots, even in the Dalish tales. I'm thinking Mythal would likely want to leave Elgar'nan out of the enterprise, given his history of conflict with Falon'Din might lead to things escalating out of control and, if this occurred after her battle with Andruil, she may have wanted to leave her out as well. So, that would mean the last one of the party is Ghilan'nain. However, that wouldn't explain why those three are always seen working together with Fen'Harel in the other three panels. I'm also a bit stuck on what the top two could relate to. The top one could simply be a reference to the elven people as they are always symbolised by a tree but the second one is puzzle. Could it have anything to do with the fact that Falon'Din and Dirthamen are called twin souls in the Temple of Mythal, so really two aspects of one being? The bottom one is definitely Fen'Harel's rebellion, which is why it seemed more likely to show his chief allies among the Forgotten Ones rather than members of the Creators, because it was definitely a rebellion against the gods, so why would members of that pantheon support him in this? Still, may be it relates specifically to Falon'Din and why the rebellion is necessary. I've had a further idea. If the third member of the group supporting Mythal was Elgar'nan, then that would tie in with the other bronze "mosaic" I talked about where a dragon is being slain by one group but it knows the real betrayer is standing to one side. This would explain why Fen'Harel was blindsided as well and so couldn't prevent it, because he had thought he could trust Elgar'nan not to betray Mythal and possibly that is why the other two turned against him, because they thought he had failed in his duty to protect her. I am assuming that Fen'Harel was generally regarded as her spy master (always shown on her left), so people would think that if he hadn't warned her of the danger, then he was the traitor. I've always got the sense that Solas felt guilty about her death because he should have prevented it.
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Jun 9, 2023 18:54:15 GMT
Has anybody got any recommendations for a great turntable under £100? I usually just sail the seven seas for my music, but Im thinking that I might have to jump into the Vinyl market for some of my fave albums!  With or without built in speakers or cd player? I have a stand alone and a retro all in one with even a cassette deck… well, and my grandfathers with the 8 track. The retro all in one isn’t going to beat a high end system, but they usually run around 150-300 US dollars from what I’ve seen. I’m not an audiophile with a thousand records, I swear. Wait. You telling me that they don’t just come with old skool horns as standard like the old movies?! Preorder cancelled! In seriousness, a recommendation for one with a built in speakers would be great cheers mate! I’m basically technology illiterate. So any help in picking a nice unit would be wonderful!
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Post by Kabraxal on Jun 9, 2023 20:07:48 GMT
With or without built in speakers or cd player? I have a stand alone and a retro all in one with even a cassette deck… well, and my grandfathers with the 8 track. The retro all in one isn’t going to beat a high end system, but they usually run around 150-300 US dollars from what I’ve seen. I’m not an audiophile with a thousand records, I swear. Wait. You telling me that they don’t just come with old skool horns as standard like the old movies?! Preorder cancelled! [imgsrc="//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/xiICCwovdgMxwQNmAZOU.png" alt="  " class="smile"] In seriousness, a recommendation for one with a built in speakers would be great cheers mate! I’m basically technology illiterate. So any help in picking a nice unit would be wonderful! I can recommend the brand I use, but I’ll need to do that after work. Just don’t remember it off the top of my head. But record players are a fairly easy thingi to find, at least in the US. Not sure about Europe but Victrola and Crosley are two that I know go retro with models going from like $100 to $200. You can probably find a more modern one that looks like a modern stereo around that price too, but I’m a retro guy for these things so I can’t name brands off the too of my head. EDIT: my budget vintage is Pyle Vintage. I also have a blue tooth stereo/radio that looks like an old 50s radio from them. I’ve had the all in one for about 8 years now and it is still going strong.
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Post by catcher on Jun 10, 2023 2:46:57 GMT
However, that wouldn't explain why those three are always seen working together with Fen'Harel in the other three panels. I'm also a bit stuck on what the top two could relate to. The top one could simply be a reference to the elven people as they are always symbolised by a tree but the second one is puzzle. Could it have anything to do with the fact that Falon'Din and Dirthamen are called twin souls in the Temple of Mythal, so really two aspects of one being? The bottom one is definitely Fen'Harel's rebellion, which is why it seemed more likely to show his chief allies among the Forgotten Ones rather than members of the Creators, because it was definitely a rebellion against the gods, so why would members of that pantheon support him in this? Still, may be it relates specifically to Falon'Din and why the rebellion is necessary. Sometimes the best answer is found in-game instead of trying to spin things too far. That 'second' panel is actually encountered last in the Elven Mountain Ruins and comes with the following text via wiki link Note: Ancient Mosaics The left side is then the elf with the valleslin and the right is with the valleslin removed. We know this is pretty important since we see it twice: once in the Temple above where we have to solve the veilfire riddle to proceed and then with this door which we must pass to proceed into the Qunari camp. If you read the rest of that link I used, the other murals (at least the ones used ingame) tell a pretty straightforward story. that doesn't mean there can't be secondary meanings but, given this was in a supplementary DLC that maybe 30% of DA:I players ever saw and the substance of what was revealed, I doubt it. That means the upside down and chained figure could be Fen'Harel, but I think it is more likely to be Mythal since Solas seems more angered about her death and the text attached to that mural speaks of the mortality of the Evanuris) but, like all symbology, other interpretations also work. BTW, has anyone done an analysis of the Solas tarot card before he leaves? There are four orbs: one clearly depicts the sun, one the moon, but two others are more difficult. One looks like wavy lines (water, maybe) and one is just some dots. Kind of late here and I need to go or else I would search the intarwebs myself. Thanks all for the discussion. 
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Post by dadithinkimgay on Jun 10, 2023 3:21:03 GMT
now are those figures absorbed into the dragon’s wings? It looks… kind of horrifying the more I look at it. I don’t think the placement is random.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 10, 2023 8:17:30 GMT
 I hadn't noticed before but if you shave off Gareth's hair and beard his facial structure is very similar to Solas, particularly the eyes. Do you suppose they actually used him as the model for Solas and then just altered the structure slightly to make it more elven?
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Post by colfoley on Jun 10, 2023 8:26:14 GMT
 I hadn't noticed before but if you shave off Gareth's hair and beard his facial structure is very similar to Solas, particularly the eyes. Do you suppose they actually used him as the model for Solas and then just altered the structure slightly to make it more elven? Same thing with Bull, there is a hint of Freddy Prince in that face.
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TabithaTH
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by TabithaTH on Jun 10, 2023 9:55:29 GMT
Not DA related, but Summerfall Studios (Gaiders new studio) was featured in the Tribeca Games Spotlight with their game Stray Gods.
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Sharable Horizon
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Lvl 31 Rogue God Emperor
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Jun 10, 2023 13:20:50 GMT
Wait. You telling me that they don’t just come with old skool horns as standard like the old movies?! Preorder cancelled! [imgsrc="//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/xiICCwovdgMxwQNmAZOU.png" alt="  " class="smile"] In seriousness, a recommendation for one with a built in speakers would be great cheers mate! I’m basically technology illiterate. So any help in picking a nice unit would be wonderful! I can recommend the brand I use, but I’ll need to do that after work. Just don’t remember it off the top of my head. But record players are a fairly easy thingi to find, at least in the US. Not sure about Europe but Victrola and Crosley are two that I know go retro with models going from like $100 to $200. You can probably find a more modern one that looks like a modern stereo around that price too, but I’m a retro guy for these things so I can’t name brands off the too of my head. EDIT: my budget vintage is Pyle Vintage. I also have a blue tooth stereo/radio that looks like an old 50s radio from them. I’ve had the all in one for about 8 years now and it is still going strong. Awesome! Thanks mate!
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ratlobster banger
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Post by Solas on Jun 10, 2023 21:52:38 GMT
The left side is then the elf with the valleslin and the right is with the valleslin removed. We know this is pretty important since we see it twice: once in the Temple above where we have to solve the veilfire riddle to proceed and then with this door which we must pass to proceed into the Qunari camp. If you read the rest of that link I used, the other murals (at least the ones used ingame) tell a pretty straightforward story. that doesn't mean there can't be secondary meanings but, given this was in a supplementary DLC that maybe 30% of DA:I players ever saw and the substance of what was revealed, I doubt it. That means the upside down and chained figure could be Fen'Harel, but I think it is more likely to be Mythal since Solas seems more angered about her death and the text attached to that mural speaks of the mortality of the Evanuris) but, like all symbology, other interpretations also work. BTW, has anyone done an analysis of the Solas tarot card before he leaves? There are four orbs: one clearly depicts the sun, one the moon, but two others are more difficult. One looks like wavy lines (water, maybe) and one is just some dots. Kind of late here and I need to go or else I would search the intarwebs myself. Thanks all for the discussion.  My theory is that it's like, elven beliefs mixed with Thedas cosmology, and one of the setting's themes. Like: Sun: self-explanatory. left hand side. interesting in that in elven lore Elgar'nan is supposed to be Eldest of the Sun. the All-Father. god of the sun, fatherhood, vengeance. he was born of the sun and the sun was his father. he later overthrew his father. Pools of the Sun, spilling the sun's lifeblood, etc. he is associated with light, heat, fire, and lightning, and burns his enemies to ashes. the shape of the constellation Solium may have originally been a representation of him. Moon: self-explanatory. right hand side. opposite the sun in the sky is the moon, opposite each other on the card are the sun symbol and moon symbol, and opposite the leader-god of the elven pantheon is its leader-goddess, Mythal. the All-Mother, goddess of motherhood, justice (an attribute which can be read as the flipside of vengeance). Mythal was born of the sea, possibly implying a lunar connection via the tides. the legends also say that she created the moon. On the bottom - also on the left-hand side, below the sun symbol, is the four dots. I read them as rocks, stones. while Elgar'nan's father was the sun, his mother was the earth, the land. earth and land is the other half of this side. also on the right-hand side, below the moon symbol, is the wavy lines. I read them as waves, water, the sea. opposite stone and land on Earth is water and the seas. but it's not just that, since this is Dragon Age. thematically we have things going on like templars vs mages. metaphysically (nowadays) there is a contrast between the waking world and the dreaming world, the magical world, of the Fade. dichotomies: reality and unreality, the mundane and the magical, dwarves (can't use magic) and elves (are closer to magic and implied to have perhaps come from spirits). the former on those lists is immutable whereas the latter is changeable and flowing. and stone is not just "stone", it's Stone, the Stone. it's the Titans, who are the "pillars of the earth", whom the elven magic-gods made war against in the distant past. in contrast the Fade is loaded with watery imagery; "the sea of dreams", the "emerald waters of the Fade", "vast oceans" containing not water but memories, a "well" of souls. it's also called the "Sky", and the sky is something which is also the opposite of land/earth. the Veil "held back the sky", like a dam holding back water. Templars consume lyrium, the blood of the Titans, and it allows them to "reinforce" reality. meanwhile, the wavy lines pattern has been used to denote when magicky things are going on (magic being manipulation of the fabric of reality), like on the Well of Sorrows portion of Solas' paintings in Skyhold. connection (to finish the 'square') there being that Mythal "gives you dreams", "my little stones/little dwarves, never yours the sun". I think it's less that the sun and moon symbols on the card are literally Elgar'nan and Mythal and more just that those gods came to be linked to the celestial bodies and what's associated with them. but like Sun, Moon, Stone/Titans/reality and Fade[waters]/spirits/dreams/magic. these aspects of the universe used to be in balance as they are on the Hermit tarot card, but due to what Solas did, they are no longer and modern Thedas is a craphouse. an alternative reading is that these 'realms' used to 'touch' (before the creation of the Veil, the waking world and the dreaming world weren't so physically separate, apart from one another due to a barrier. and for example, when Elgar'nan was 'born' in the legends, it came of the Sun touching his head to the earth, and Elgar'nan was born in the place where they touched), but now each is 'locked' behind many circles, separate and apart from one another in the four 'spheres' on the Hermit. and now he wants to bring these 'realms' back together again by taking down the Veil. just my speculative thoughts
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