indrexu
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Post by indrexu on Apr 29, 2017 21:17:02 GMT
The personal vendetta the Emperor has with you makes so much more sense when you killed him as a Jedi Knight. Maybe. My guild's consensus seemed to be that the KotFE story flowed best as a Knight, but that KotET clearly switched the Warrior in as writer's pet. They even get special lines in Chapter IX! |
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Iakus
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Post by Iakus on Apr 29, 2017 21:30:24 GMT
The personal vendetta the Emperor has with you makes so much more sense when you killed him as a Jedi Knight. The whole "you're unique and have so much potential to be more than you are" bit where the emperor is obsessed with you just doesn't fit when your skill set is mostly limited to drinking, getting into bar fights, flying, and smooching space babes. On the contrary, I this is one of the places where people get it backwards. From Valkorion's perspective, neither one is a rival. He's attained UNLIMITED POWAAAAAHHHHHH and both the Knight and Smuggler are ants to him. However... the Knight is someone who, despite the entire backing of the Jedi order has tried to kill him twice, and ultimately failed both times. The Smuggler, on the other hand, is "just a random guy", but has flown out of a black hole, become the most respected figure in the underworld, and was instrumental in the defeat of the Imperial Fleet on Corellia. Vitiakorian already has power by the time you meet him. He wants someone he finds interesting. Pretty much I mean I think even Valkorian wasn't a Force-user until Vitiate "hollowed him out" and possessed him. Before he was just some warlord. The Emperor just needs a new vessel. Someone who commands respect.
Though I do think the storyline works BEST with a Force user of some kind, Jedi or Sith, simply because of all the Force Ghostiness of teh storyline and having to face Arcann and Vaylin multiple time. |
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Post by Kaidan Fan on Apr 30, 2017 17:35:51 GMT
I did like playing through the story as Consular and Warrior most. But I haven't finished on my Knight yet. There were times I felt my character was out of place when not a force user. like some of the fights with Arcann and Vaylin. But it was mostly okay. Also Iakus you're right: The Emperor tells you that Valkorion was "a great warrior, a champion of Zakuul". But he never says he was a force user, so I don't think it matters about being a force user in the story or not as far as that goes. |
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Post by Sifr on May 1, 2017 11:39:31 GMT
My favorite is showing up to meet Jedi, repeatedly saying "I'm just here to ask you a few questions", "I'm not here to cause trouble", and suchlike things, and getting them so enraged at my character's failure to act like a "real" Sith that they just go berserk and attack. Which happens, like, three times in Chapter I. This happens to the LS Inquisitor as well in Chapter I and II. At one point on Alderaan, you can attempt to reconcile a woman with her Jedi former lover, only to show up at the meeting and discover the Jedi had no intention of running away with the woman, but was simply trying to trick you into an ambush.
And on Taris, you can offer to help some Jedi deal with a troublesome Sith Force Ghost in exchange for letting you speak to Ashara, only for them to immediately renege on the bargain afterwards and attempt to kill you. In both instances, it's extremely satisfying to call out the Jedi for their hypocrisy and willingness to resort to deception and betrayal if it suits them, yet still have the temerity to act like it's only the Sith who are capable of these things. |
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indrexu
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Post by indrexu on May 1, 2017 22:05:09 GMT
My favorite is showing up to meet Jedi, repeatedly saying "I'm just here to ask you a few questions", "I'm not here to cause trouble", and suchlike things, and getting them so enraged at my character's failure to act like a "real" Sith that they just go berserk and attack. Which happens, like, three times in Chapter I. This happens to the LS Inquisitor as well in Chapter I and II. At one point on Alderaan, you can attempt to reconcile a woman with her Jedi former lover, only to show up at the meeting and discover the Jedi had no intention of running away with the woman, but was simply trying to trick you into an ambush.
And on Taris, you can offer to help some Jedi deal with a troublesome Sith Force Ghost in exchange for letting you speak to Ashara, only for them to immediately renege on the bargain afterwards and attempt to kill you. In both instances, it's extremely satisfying to call out the Jedi for their hypocrisy and willingness to resort to deception and betrayal if it suits them, yet still have the temerity to act like it's only the Sith who are capable of these things. As I recall, on Taris, they don't ever actually accept your deal. Maybe it requires dialogue that I never got. But the thing on Ald is legit. Thing is, in the Warrior's storyline the whole thing usually plays out with some comedy. Having Vette around helps. In the Inquisitor's storyline, it usually feels depressing - at least, that's how it was for me. |
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Post by Sifr on May 1, 2017 22:39:06 GMT
I might be misremembering Taris, it was a while ago when I played that part.
The Sith Warrior definitely has more comedic moments, especially when paired with Vette. As depressing as their storyline is, I think my preference for the Sith Inquisitor derives from really getting a kick out of their deadpan delivery of biting sarcasm.
Plus they're the Outlander I imagine to be least phased by the situation with Valkorian in KOTFE.
After all, they've got prior experience with people wanting to steal their body and having troublesome Ghosts living in their head. They even get a great line when they discover Valkorian's presence, about having always wanted to "add him to their collection".
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2017 22:56:48 GMT
My favorite is showing up to meet Jedi, repeatedly saying "I'm just here to ask you a few questions", "I'm not here to cause trouble", and suchlike things, and getting them so enraged at my character's failure to act like a "real" Sith that they just go berserk and attack. Which happens, like, three times in Chapter I. This happens to the LS Inquisitor as well in Chapter I and II. At one point on Alderaan, you can attempt to reconcile a woman with her Jedi former lover, only to show up at the meeting and discover the Jedi had no intention of running away with the woman, but was simply trying to trick you into an ambush.
And on Taris, you can offer to help some Jedi deal with a troublesome Sith Force Ghost in exchange for letting you speak to Ashara, only for them to immediately renege on the bargain afterwards and attempt to kill you. In both instances, it's extremely satisfying to call out the Jedi for their hypocrisy and willingness to resort to deception and betrayal if it suits them, yet still have the temerity to act like it's only the Sith who are capable of these things. And I believe on Tatooine: You question a pair of Jedi, the apprentice starts to talk, and his master wipes his mind to keep him from talking. A LS Sith can call him out on such actions |
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Post by indrexu on May 2, 2017 2:55:42 GMT
You question a pair of Jedi, the apprentice starts to talk, and his master wipes his mind to keep him from talking. A LS Sith can call him out on such actions That's actually the Warrior's class quest on Tat. Both of the Jedi (Yul-Li and Yonlach) are Masters, but the one who gets his mind wiped is a much younger gentleman compared to the guy who does the wiping. Apropos of "call him out" on that...one of the things I hated about the Warrior is how florid and unnecessarily elaborate her dialogue is. (For example: "I leave you to wrestle with what you did to your fellow", which, yeesh.) She sounds like she's delivering an oration every time she talks, especially in the class quests. The fact that she's got a super posh accent doesn't help. I hate that they decided to make the (Sith) Imperials in the game have British accents for a variety of reasons (it makes a total hash of the lore, it makes no linguistic sense, it's part of the slavish "copy the superficial parts of the Galactic Empire for no good reason" aesthetic that they decided on, it's not even consistently followed in the game, etc.) but the most important, for me, is that I cannot for the life of me reconcile Natasha Little's voice with a relatively young woman, and I don't like roleplaying characters with English accents. Jo Wyatt did a good job as the Agent, and I suppose Xanthe Elbrick was serviceable as the Inquisitor, but Little just doesn't work for me. For what it's worth: SWTOR PC voice acting power rankings!
8. Natasha Little
7. Xanthe Elbrick
6. Jennifer Hale
5. Athena Karkanis
4. Kath Soucie
3. Jo Wyatt
2. Kari Wahlgren
1. Grey DeLisle |
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Post by Iakus on May 2, 2017 3:23:03 GMT
You question a pair of Jedi, the apprentice starts to talk, and his master wipes his mind to keep him from talking. A LS Sith can call him out on such actions That's actually the Warrior's class quest on Tat. Both of the Jedi (Yul-Li and Yonlach) are Masters, but the one who gets his mind wiped is a much younger gentleman compared to the guy who does the wiping. Apropos of "call him out" on that...one of the things I hated about the Warrior is how florid and unnecessarily elaborate her dialogue is. (For example: "I leave you to wrestle with what you did to your fellow", which, yeesh.) She sounds like she's delivering an oration every time she talks, especially in the class quests. The fact that she's got a super posh accent doesn't help. I hate that they decided to make the (Sith) Imperials in the game have British accents for a variety of reasons (it makes a total hash of the lore, it makes no linguistic sense, it's part of the slavish "copy the superficial parts of the Galactic Empire for no good reason" aesthetic that they decided on, it's not even consistently followed in the game, etc.) but the most important, for me, is that I cannot for the life of me reconcile Natasha Little's voice with a relatively young woman, and I don't like roleplaying characters with English accents. Jo Wyatt did a good job as the Agent, and I suppose Xanthe Elbrick was serviceable as the Inquisitor, but Little just doesn't work for me. For what it's worth: SWTOR PC voice acting power rankings!
8. Natasha Little
7. Xanthe Elbrick
6. Jennifer Hale
5. Athena Karkanis
4. Kath Soucie
3. Jo Wyatt
2. Kari Wahlgren
1. Grey DeLisle THe British accent does make sense from a certain perspective I mean, IMperial space is it's own region. And it's been separated from the Republic for several centuries now. Maybe Basic had a little bit of language drift? In the trooper story, Aric does comment that Dorne has an Imperial accent. |
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Post by Sifr on May 2, 2017 7:56:38 GMT
I dunno, I like the differentiation between the Imperial (British) accent and the Republic (American) one. Makes for some fun moments when Republic characters affect a pseudo-English accent to pass for Imperials, especially when Jedi have to pretend to be Sith.
I think it was best used in the Agent storyline when they adopted a Republic accent while undercover on Hutta. While it wasn't always consistently applied (they tended to revert to Imperial for sidequests), I rather appreciated how until Kaliyo discovered they were an Imperial spy, the Agent didn't drop the fake accent when talking to her.
Shame that they didn't really use this much afterwards.
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Post by CrutchCricket on May 2, 2017 15:29:50 GMT
I dunno, I like the differentiation between the Imperial (British) accent and the Republic (American) one. Makes for some fun moments when Republic characters affect a pseudo-English accent to pass for Imperials, especially when Jedi have to pretend to be Sith. I think it was best used in the Agent storyline when they adopted a Republic accent while undercover on Hutta. While it wasn't always consistently applied (they tended to revert to Imperial for sidequests), I rather appreciated how until Kaliyo discovered they were an Imperial spy, the Agent didn't drop the fake accent when talking to her. Shame that they didn't really use this much afterwards. Taris has a nice bit:
You have to rescue a Republic scientist because she has info you need. You approach her with the Republic accent and so does Lokin. Then when you chat privately, it's back to native Imperial accents and then back to Pub when you go back to her.
You almost get the reverse on Hoth too where Hunter pretends to be a Minder- except in true douchebag-Hunter fashion, he doesn't bother with an accent.
In other fun agent moments: play dumb with the NPC that tells you to get training on Hutta- the one just inside Nem'ro's cantina. She'll be like "quick, pretend we're old friends" and if you reply "ooh, you're a spy too?" she'll facepalm and call you an idiot.  I always pick that option for lulz and then back out and do it right. |
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Post by Lazarillo on May 2, 2017 16:39:16 GMT
I dunno, I like the differentiation between the Imperial (British) accent and the Republic (American) one. Makes for some fun moments when Republic characters affect a pseudo-English accent to pass for Imperials, especially when Jedi have to pretend to be Sith. I was a little disappointed that the Smuggler story didn't have something similar. Without dropping spoilers, there's a character near the end who gets revealed to be an Imperial spy. Unfortunately, after you blow the spy's cover and have a direct confrontation, said character continues to rant and rave about how horrible the Republic is and how glad he is to be back among the people of his motherland, without losing his "Republic" accent. I felt a little cheated by that, really. |
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Post by indrexu on May 2, 2017 20:59:59 GMT
THe British accent does make sense from a certain perspective I mean, IMperial space is it's own region. And it's been separated from the Republic for several centuries now. Maybe Basic had a little bit of language drift? In the trooper story, Aric does comment that Dorne has an Imperial accent. accent makes sense, sure. Actually, a whole separate language makes considerably more sense, since the Empire allegedly had no contact with the rest of the galaxy for over a millennium. Compare the English of Beowulf to what we use now. Hwæt! But it'd have been dumb to not be able to use the same localization for half the game's characters, so you can understand why they didn't do a whole new language. Going with British accents, most of which are super-posh, RP, or BBC English, is annoying because that accent is canonically applied to all kinds of people who have literally nothing to do with the Sith Empire. There are British-accented Basic-speaking people in the OT and PT that have nothing to do with the Galactic Empire, let alone the Sith Empire. In fact, the accent was most often referred to as a Coruscanti or Core accent in Legends materials and the movie novelizations. Revenge of the Sith explicitly refers to Obi-Wan Kenobi's speech as "clipped Coruscanti" tone. Those who were born outside the Core but who spoke with the accent, like Tarkin, were aspirational; there was actually a fairly complex historiography surrounding the topic. Shit, there are such people in SWTOR that have nothing to do with the Sith or their Empire either: Alderaanians, Jedi, Senators. Yet the game repeatedly and explicitly refers to it as an Imperial accent. Accepting that they made a hash of the lore is fine, because frankly lore is a secondary consideration in games (if that) and that's how it should be. But they made a hash of the lore and saddled me with voiceover I don't like, so that makes me salty. |
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Post by Iakus on May 2, 2017 21:06:49 GMT
THe British accent does make sense from a certain perspective I mean, IMperial space is it's own region. And it's been separated from the Republic for several centuries now. Maybe Basic had a little bit of language drift? In the trooper story, Aric does comment that Dorne has an Imperial accent. accent makes sense, sure. Actually, a whole separate language makes considerably more sense, since the Empire allegedly had no contact with the rest of the galaxy for over a millennium. Compare the English of Beowulf to what we use now. Hwæt! But it'd have been dumb to not be able to use the same localization for half the game's characters, so you can understand why they didn't do a whole new language. Going with British accents, most of which are super-posh, RP, or BBC English, is annoying because that accent is canonically applied to all kinds of people who have literally nothing to do with the Sith Empire. There are British-accented Basic-speaking people in the OT and PT that have nothing to do with the Galactic Empire, let alone the Sith Empire. In fact, the accent was most often referred to as a Coruscanti or Core accent in Legends materials and the movie novelizations. Revenge of the Sith explicitly refers to Obi-Wan Kenobi's speech as "clipped Coruscanti" tone. Those who were born outside the Core but who spoke with the accent, like Tarkin, were aspirational; there was actually a fairly complex historiography surrounding the topic. Shit, there are such people in SWTOR that have nothing to do with the Sith or their Empire either: Alderaanians, Jedi, Senators. Yet the game repeatedly and explicitly refers to it as an Imperial accent. Accepting that they made a hash of the lore is fine, because frankly lore is a secondary consideration in games (if that) and that's how it should be. But they made a hash of the lore and saddled me with voiceover I don't like, so that makes me salty. Well, if you wanna get meta about it, the reason why British accents are associated with the Empire is simple: The main cast of the original Star Wars movies were cast in the United States, thus most of them had American accents. But the filming was done in London, so off course most of the minor characters and extras were hired there. And what were most of these roles for? Imperial officers and soldiers! |
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Post by indrexu on May 2, 2017 21:29:45 GMT
Well, if you wanna get meta about it, the reason why British accents are associated with the Empire is simple: The main cast of the original Star Wars movies were cast in the United States, thus most of them had American accents. But the filming was done in London, so off course most of the minor characters and extras were hired there. And what were most of these roles for? Imperial officers and soldiers! Yes, I'm aware of that. I'm even aware of where it breaks down (Richard LeParmentier, for instance, was an American transplant living in the UK when he was cast as Admiral [Conan Antonio] Motti in ANH; "cheap actor living in England" did not necessarily mean RP voice). It's dumb fanon resting on the flimsiest of foundations (exhibit A, as before: Obi-Wan Fucking Kenobi). BW went with it for SWTOR because they were going for "popular perception of Star Wars" rather than "actual Star Wars". Hence why they slavishly copied the Imperial officer aesthetic for uniforms, used stormtrooper/clone trooper ideas for both Imperial and Republic infantry armor, and made every bounty hunter look like Boba Fett. This same shit happened in KotOR, too. They set a video game fifty years after the Great Sith War - a war where starships look old-timey and goofy, where bladed weapons are still kind of a thing, and so on - and gave it a movie aesthetic with movie-style clothes, weapons, ships, and suchlike things, with the sole concession to the whole "four thousand years before the trilogies" issue being cortosis/phrik/beskar blades that, according to Legends, people used in the film time period anyway. They wanted the aesthetic of the films with the creative freedom of a time period that nobody except comic book fans cared about, and who gives a shit about comic book fans? Then they stuck a Yuuzhan Vong reference into one of Canderous's conversations to make it seem like they were consonant with the lore. Like I said before, lore is ultimately for the creators to fuck around with at their will, so none of these things was ever exactly game-breaking for me. You know: you roll your eyes, make a few jokes, and move on. My problem in this particular case is that it's in service of an aspect of the game that actively annoyed me for non-lore reasons, too. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on May 3, 2017 3:03:51 GMT
indrexu : About the accents, perhaps a bit of Fridge Brilliance/tossing Imp players a bone- we know they eventually lose because the Republic will survive to be seen in the movies. But maybe while the Dromund Kaas Empire doesn't achieve military victory, it achieves a cultural one. In 3000 years it's the British officers in grey uniforms that are the majority force serving Coruscant, not the American ones in brown. As for the lore and the aesthetic and tech not changing realistically, well that's just the fantasy part of Star Wars shining through. Any high fantasy series spanning a similar time frame is still stuck in a medieval-ish vibe throughout. Personally I found the Great Sith war era with it's Iron Throne-inspired shipbuilding and it's "hold up bro while I plug my lighsaber into my proton pack" aesthetic rather silly and not very Star Wars like. I'll admit Star Wars fans (myself among them) aren't the greatest when it comes to accepting change.
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Post by indrexu on May 3, 2017 20:43:31 GMT
indrexu : About the accents, perhaps a bit of Fridge Brilliance/tossing Imp players a bone- we know they eventually lose because the Republic will survive to be seen in the movies. But maybe while the Dromund Kaas Empire doesn't achieve military victory, it achieves a cultural one. In 3000 years it's the British officers in grey uniforms that are the majority force serving Coruscant, not the American ones in brown. As for the lore and the aesthetic and tech not changing realistically, well that's just the fantasy part of Star Wars shining through. Any high fantasy series spanning a similar time frame is still stuck in a medieval-ish vibe throughout. Personally I found the Great Sith war era with it's Iron Throne-inspired shipbuilding and it's "hold up bro while I plug my lighsaber into my proton pack" aesthetic rather silly and not very Star Wars like. I'll admit Star Wars fans (myself among them) aren't the greatest when it comes to accepting change. That was a common argument on the SWTOR forums awhile back. (It had a closely related friend, namely: "maybe the Empire wins and then turns into the Republic...somehow...because reasons...and then everybody decides to completely forget about it ever existing". SWTOR forums are lousy with brotastic Darth Vader wannabes with murderboners and Force choke fetishes.) I don't give it much credit. For one thing, it would make zero sense. That's not how linguistics works. Secondly, again, there's ample evidence both in SWTOR itself and elsewhere in Legends material chronologically before SWTOR that RP and other British accents either predate the Sith Empire's reemergence or are used by people with nothing to do with the Empire. These people are completely unexplainable if we go with the "Imperial accent" thing. They don't work regardless of whatever knots they try to tie SWTOR canon into. Thirdly, like you say, if this worked, it'd be fridge logic, not dev logic. There's no rhyme or reason for this apart from the devs' fairly blatant desire to ape OT and PT style and what people think are OT and PT conventions purely to appeal to the most casual of fans. Call the child by its name. I've been at considerable pains to point out that this isn't an intrinsically bad thing, but it annoys me in this particular case for other reasons. I honestly thought the Great Sith War aesthetic was dumb, too. A lot of things about Legends canon were dumb. (Shit, a lot of things about New Canon are dumb.) And I don't blame BW all that much for changing things. Lore is a tool for the storyteller to use, and even if BW's forays into Star Wars have played a lot faster and looser with that lore than most other companies', it's still totally their call (and the Story Group's, now) about whether to do it. |
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Post by CrutchCricket on May 3, 2017 21:55:35 GMT
That was a common argument on the SWTOR forums awhile back. (It had a closely related friend, namely: "maybe the Empire wins and then turns into the Republic...somehow...because reasons...and then everybody decides to completely forget about it ever existing". SWTOR forums are lousy with brotastic Darth Vader wannabes with murderboners and Force choke fetishes.) I don't give it much credit. For one thing, it would make zero sense. That's not how linguistics works. Secondly, again, there's ample evidence both in SWTOR itself and elsewhere in Legends material chronologically before SWTOR that RP and other British accents either predate the Sith Empire's reemergence or are used by people with nothing to do with the Empire. These people are completely unexplainable if we go with the "Imperial accent" thing. They don't work regardless of whatever knots they try to tie SWTOR canon into. Thirdly, like you say, if this worked, it'd be fridge logic, not dev logic. There's no rhyme or reason for this apart from the devs' fairly blatant desire to ape OT and PT style and what people think are OT and PT conventions purely to appeal to the most casual of fans. Call the child by its name. I've been at considerable pains to point out that this isn't an intrinsically bad thing, but it annoys me in this particular case for other reasons. I honestly thought the Great Sith War aesthetic was dumb, too. A lot of things about Legends canon were dumb. (Shit, a lot of things about New Canon are dumb.) And I don't blame BW all that much for changing things. Lore is a tool for the storyteller to use, and even if BW's forays into Star Wars have played a lot faster and looser with that lore than most other companies', it's still totally their call (and the Story Group's, now) about whether to do it. That's not all those forums are lousy with. But anyway, yeah ignoring the way actual linguistics and accents would flow, I don't see the precedent as a problem if we assume the Sith (as in the order) are the ones that carried the accent around. The Jedi exiles that took over the Sith had British accents (for all we know, that's all comics and written material, so nothing there to contradict that statement), we know they heavily influenced what would be the First Sith Empire, and the TOR Sith Empire is just an offshoot of that. Meanwhile people in Republic space all this time not actually affiliated with the Sith at all may still be affiliated with or descended from the mundane region from which the original Exiles were also from. Yeah it's thin but at least it's something. Obviously the real reason is because the enemy in Star Wars is always Brits with triangle ships and a fetish for the color grey but we can still try to provide some in-universe explanation. |
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Post by Doctor Fumbles on May 3, 2017 22:09:55 GMT
I am thinking about picking SWTOR up again.
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Post by Sifr on May 4, 2017 4:41:49 GMT
indrexu : About the accents, perhaps a bit of Fridge Brilliance/tossing Imp players a bone- we know they eventually lose because the Republic will survive to be seen in the movies. But maybe while the Dromund Kaas Empire doesn't achieve military victory, it achieves a cultural one. In 3000 years it's the British officers in grey uniforms that are the majority force serving Coruscant, not the American ones in brown. Although the Republic flag used in the Prequels does look awfully like the Sith Empire one. Personally, I rather like the fan theory that the Empires does "win", but after the Sith inevitably wipe each other out, the Emperor having been killed/vanished, and pressure from the discontented Republic worlds building, that ultimately leads the Empire undergoing a slow reformation towards democracy. In other words, essentially the reverse of what happens in RotS. Given the cyclical nature of conflict in the GFFA, such a thing could have happened in the intervening time period. As TOR frequently demonstrates and especially when it comes to KOTFE onlywards, the Republic and Empire are a lot more alike than they'd like to think. Going back to the accent discussion, apparently John Boyega was asked by JJ Abrams to go for an American accent for Finn, because he didn't think he sounded right with his natural British one. Even though it would have been rather fitting, since Finn was raised from a young age by the (mostly British sounding) First Order. |
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Post by Daemion on May 4, 2017 4:59:58 GMT
The Empire never wins. According to the (now defunct) lore, the Republic has existed uninterrupted the entire time despite all the wars. Don't try to make sense of Star Wars. While awesome, it has always been stupid in more ways than one. Just roll with it and don't think too much about it.
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Post by Sifr on May 4, 2017 5:23:04 GMT
The Empire never wins. According to the (now defunct) lore, the Republic has existed uninterrupted the entire time despite all the wars. Don't try to make sense of Star Wars. While awesome, it has always been stupid in more ways than one. Just roll with it and don't think too much about it. Which would be precisely the revisionist history that the Republic would want to sell, rather than admit they got taken over and were ruled for a time by an Empire of crazy Sith Lords, until they managed to restore the Republic by reforming/overthrowing the government. With a gulf of over 3000 years between TOR and the PT/OT, there's a lot of time for people to have either forgotten or expunged this period of history from collective memory, maintaining the fiction that the Republic has existed in an unbroken chain for thousands of years. It'd be like asking someone in our world to describe anything about the Middle Kingdom period of Ancient Egypt. Unless they've actually studied that period of history, they're not going to know the details off the top of their head. |
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Post by Kaidan Fan on May 4, 2017 16:36:22 GMT
May the 4th be with you all!  |
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Post by Daemion on May 4, 2017 18:30:31 GMT
The Empire never wins. According to the (now defunct) lore, the Republic has existed uninterrupted the entire time despite all the wars. Don't try to make sense of Star Wars. While awesome, it has always been stupid in more ways than one. Just roll with it and don't think too much about it. Which would be precisely the revisionist history that the Republic would want to sell, rather than admit they got taken over and were ruled for a time by an Empire of crazy Sith Lords, until they managed to restore the Republic by reforming/overthrowing the government. With a gulf of over 3000 years between TOR and the PT/OT, there's a lot of time for people to have either forgotten or expunged this period of history from collective memory, maintaining the fiction that the Republic has existed in an unbroken chain for thousands of years. It'd be like asking someone in our world to describe anything about the Middle Kingdom period of Ancient Egypt. Unless they've actually studied that period of history, they're not going to know the details off the top of their head. *sigh* You completely missed the point. There are enough EU novels set in that time period, like the Bane trilogy, that show that the Republic was never conquered by the Sith. |
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Post by Sifr on May 4, 2017 19:35:05 GMT
*sigh* You completely missed the point. There are enough EU novels set in that time period, like the Bane trilogy, that show that the Republic was never conquered by the Sith. Not really, since there are massive gaps of centuries or more in the EU timeline. That's the entire conceit for how they can introduce things in TOR like the Galactic Cold War, as well as the Eternal Empire showing up to wreck the Republic and Sith Empire. With that in mind, the writers could still easily fit in the Empire conquering the Republic, even if only for a relatively short period of time, before it either collapses or the former Republic worlds rise up to take back control again. That's not to say that it did happen, only that we cannot take the Republic's word of being "undefeated champions" as gospel, given the huge spans of time involved. Especially when you recall how the backstory of TOR has the Sith Empire effectively "win" the conflict with the Republic, having sacked Coruscant, destroyed the Jedi temple and strong-armed the Republic Senate into signing a peace treaty that heavily favoured the Empire. As for Darth Bane, he still lived over 2000 years after these events. Shortly before him, there was Darth Rivan, who took his name from a Sith manuscript typo. It seems that certain details of galactic history don't always survive the passage of time, either getting corrupted or lost. We even see this on a shorter scale of time, where despite having a huge impact on the galaxy, many Jedi or Sith by the time of TOR (only 300 years later) haven't heard of Revan or Malak. Nor has knowledge of the Rakata become widespread despite their rediscovery in KOTOR, with many individuals dismissing the idea of an "Infinite Empire" as ludicrous. Obviously the Republic always prevails, but I like the idea that there's some wiggle room for them to have briefly been occupied by the Empire, even if not fully. Then again, it might be redundant now this plot has already been done with the Eternal Empire during KOTFE. |
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