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Post by Iddy on Jul 9, 2018 16:36:16 GMT
There is no way for Hawke (or first time players) to know that trying to explain what happened to the Dalish would result in their massacre. Personaly, I wish there was an option to kick Merrill out of the party in that scenario. This is a roleplaying game after all. Why not have an option for Hawke to show disgust towards Merrill as her irresponsible actions led to an massacre and cut ties with her? Who's talking about "knowing"? Does nobody ever act on an assumption? And kicking Merrill out would require there being something to be kicked out of. Hawke isn't the leader of an organization.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2018 16:46:58 GMT
There is no way for Hawke (or first time players) to know that trying to explain what happened to the Dalish would result in their massacre. Personaly, I wish there was an option to kick Merrill out of the party in that scenario. This is a roleplaying game after all. Why not have an option for Hawke to show disgust towards Merrill as her irresponsible actions led to an massacre and cut ties with her? Who's talking about "knowing"? Does nobody ever act on an assumption? And kicking Merrill out would require there being something to be kicked out of. Hawke isn't the leader of an organization. I can honestly say I never assumed helping Merrill would end up in the massacre of her clan, I though they'd just grumble and dislike her even more.
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Post by jaison1986 on Jul 9, 2018 16:51:24 GMT
There is no way for Hawke (or first time players) to know that trying to explain what happened to the Dalish would result in their massacre. Personaly, I wish there was an option to kick Merrill out of the party in that scenario. This is a roleplaying game after all. Why not have an option for Hawke to show disgust towards Merrill as her irresponsible actions led to an massacre and cut ties with her? Who's talking about "knowing"? Does nobody ever act on an assumption? And kicking Merrill out would require there being something to be kicked out of. Hawke isn't the leader of an organization. Problem is, it's an extremely vague assumption. First time I played, I choose "Marethari was possessed" Because I assumed explaining the situation would make the dalish understand what happened. And lo and behold, they were all dead a couple minutes later. Then there is "I'll take responsability". What does that even mean? I am supposed to take thirty lashes in her place? And for last, I'm talking about kicking Merrill out of Hawke circle of friends. Like you can kick out Anders during his personal quest in act 2, or how you can kick Isabela out by giving her to the Arishok.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 9, 2018 18:34:35 GMT
Who's talking about "knowing"? Does nobody ever act on an assumption? And kicking Merrill out would require there being something to be kicked out of. Hawke isn't the leader of an organization. Problem is, it's an extremely vague assumption. First time I played, I choose "Marethari was possessed" Because I assumed explaining the situation would make the dalish understand what happened. And lo and behold, they were all dead a couple minutes later. Then there is "I'll take responsability". What does that even mean? I am supposed to take thirty lashes in her place? And for last, I'm talking about kicking Merrill out of Hawke circle of friends. Like you can kick out Anders during his personal quest in act 2, or how you can kick Isabela out by giving her to the Arishok. Anders' case is different. I his position Hawke's anger and his remorse together at the moment can convince him, he doesn't have a place in anywhere – and best if he keeps himself far from the people. At the moment But Merrill lives in the Alienage and she's proud, even if she has her doubts at the end. She didn't commit crimes, murder. (And of course, this is the story – have flaws...)
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Post by jaison1986 on Jul 9, 2018 19:05:11 GMT
Problem is, it's an extremely vague assumption. First time I played, I choose "Marethari was possessed" Because I assumed explaining the situation would make the dalish understand what happened. And lo and behold, they were all dead a couple minutes later. Then there is "I'll take responsability". What does that even mean? I am supposed to take thirty lashes in her place? And for last, I'm talking about kicking Merrill out of Hawke circle of friends. Like you can kick out Anders during his personal quest in act 2, or how you can kick Isabela out by giving her to the Arishok. Anders' case is different. I his position Hawke's anger and his remorse together at the moment can convince him, he doesn't have a place in anywhere – and best if he keeps himself far from the people. At the moment But Merrill lives in the Alienage and she's proud, even if she has her doubts at the end. She didn't commit crimes, murder. (And of course, this is the story – have flaws...) I don't see how that's relevant. One can easily rationalize that Hawke is sick of Merrill antics. And because of her mistakes they were forced to kill a bunched of people that they otherwise wouldn't have to. Not to mention summoning demons and making deals with them is defenitely seen as a crime by thedosians...
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Post by Catilina on Jul 9, 2018 19:14:02 GMT
Anders' case is different. I his position Hawke's anger and his remorse together at the moment can convince him, he doesn't have a place in anywhere – and best if he keeps himself far from the people. At the moment But Merrill lives in the Alienage and she's proud, even if she has her doubts at the end. She didn't commit crimes, murder. (And of course, this is the story – have flaws...) I don't see how that's relevant. One can easily rationalize that Hawke is sick of Merrill antics. And because of her mistakes they were forced to kill a bunched of people that they otherwise wouldn't have to. Not to mention summoning demons and making deals with them is defenitely seen as a crime by thedosians... But can't kick her from her home! And because she's there, she available. Hawke doesn't need to deal with her anymore if don't want. Hawke has his/her home, just as Merrill, don't need to visit her, not even to talk with her. And no. Not Merrill forces this fight – the clan forces, Marethari was a fool. But of course, can blame Merrill – but doesn't have right to kick from Kirkwall. – Hawke's nothing here really – his/her title perhaps makes Hawke untouchable but doesn't have any power over Kirkwall/the people, not even over his/her friends/companions.
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Post by jaison1986 on Jul 9, 2018 19:18:52 GMT
I don't see how that's relevant. One can easily rationalize that Hawke is sick of Merrill antics. And because of her mistakes they were forced to kill a bunched of people that they otherwise wouldn't have to. Not to mention summoning demons and making deals with them is defenitely seen as a crime by thedosians... But can't kick her from her home! And because she's there, she available. Hawke doesn't need to deal with her anymore if don't want. Hawke has his/her home, just as Merrill, don't need to visit her, not even to talk with her. And no. Not Merrill forces this fight – the clan forces, Marethari was a fool. But of course, can blame Merrill – but doesn't have right to kick from Kirkwall. – Hawke's nothing here really – his/her title perhaps makes Hawke untouchable but doesn't have any power over Kirkwall/the people, not even over his/her friends/companions. But I'm not saying to kick her out of her home or the city... I talking about kicking her out of the party. As of, "I'm done with you and I'll never talk with you again. Don't come near me again".
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Post by Catilina on Jul 9, 2018 19:28:24 GMT
But can't kick her from her home! And because she's there, she available. Hawke doesn't need to deal with her anymore if don't want. Hawke has his/her home, just as Merrill, don't need to visit her, not even to talk with her. And no. Not Merrill forces this fight – the clan forces, Marethari was a fool.
But of course, can blame Merrill – but doesn't have right to kick from Kirkwall. – Hawke's nothing here really – his/her title perhaps makes Hawke untouchable but doesn't have any power over Kirkwall/the people, not even over his/her friends/companions. But I'm not saying to kick her out of her home or the city... I talking about kicking her out of the party. As of, "I'm done with you and I'll never talk with you again. Don't come near me again". As roleplay option would be nice, I suppose (with an asshole and stupid Hawke – who first help him in her "spirit" quest, and later blame her...) Sadly the game not perfect, we can't even give her and Anders to the Templars... And Hawke can't kill Varric if gossips too much... or just leave Kirkwall... The other games also don't let you do anything: you can't punch Cullen as a Circle Mage in Inquisition...
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Post by Iddy on Jul 9, 2018 19:38:20 GMT
Funnily enough, Merrill can kick Hawke out of her circle of friends. Well, only temporarily but still.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 9, 2018 19:47:03 GMT
Do you guys think Merrill would be able to resist Audacity if Marethari didn't let demon in? After all, she didn't resist Wryme in Feynriel's quest. She's also not at her best during Act 3 (both mentally and physically). Audacity also seems to be quite persuasive (in Merrill short story, it gains her interest pretty quickly) and it wants to get out (unless someone has a better explanation for a line "Help me"). I think Merrill realizes that there is no guarantee, hence why she brings Hawke with her to kill her if she can't resist him. Anyone can fail to resist a demon, we see that in the quest you reference where all our companions can't with the exception of Sebastian who refuses to go and Anders whom is already possessed. That said, I'm of the opinion that Audacity was never interested in Merrill but their target was Marethari. Considering they are a Pride demon, makes sense they would prefer a Keeper over a Apprentice. Marethari's actions to drive Merrill away may not just be to protect Merrill but may be Audacity trying to get the one person in the clan who could interfere from doing so.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 9, 2018 19:55:59 GMT
Do you guys think Merrill would be able to resist Audacity if Marethari didn't let demon in? After all, she didn't resist Wryme in Feynriel's quest. She's also not at her best during Act 3 (both mentally and physically). Audacity also seems to be quite persuasive (in Merrill short story, it gains her interest pretty quickly) and it wants to get out (unless someone has a better explanation for a line "Help me"). I think Merrill realizes that there is no guarantee, hence why she brings Hawke with her to kill her if she can't resist him. Anyone can fail to resist a demon, we see that in the quest you reference where all our companions can't with the exception of Sebastian who refuses to go and Anders whom is already possessed.
That said, I'm of the opinion that Audacity was never interested in Merrill but their target was Marethari. Considering they are a Pride demon, makes sense they would prefer a Keeper over a Apprentice. Marethari's actions to drive Merrill away may not just be to protect Merrill but may be Audacity trying to get the one person in the clan who could interfere from doing so. I suppose Audacity targeted both of them (I don't think a pride demon care about that Keeper or First – why would?). But Merrill was stronger. And yes, this was Merrill's intention she asked Hawke for help.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 9, 2018 20:08:08 GMT
I think Merrill realizes that there is no guarantee, hence why she brings Hawke with her to kill her if she can't resist him. Anyone can fail to resist a demon, we see that in the quest you reference where all our companions can't with the exception of Sebastian who refuses to go and Anders whom is already possessed.
That said, I'm of the opinion that Audacity was never interested in Merrill but their target was Marethari. Considering they are a Pride demon, makes sense they would prefer a Keeper over a Apprentice. Marethari's actions to drive Merrill away may not just be to protect Merrill but may be Audacity trying to get the one person in the clan who could interfere from doing so. I suppose Audacity targeted both of them (I don't think a pride demon care about that Keeper or First – why would?). But Merrill was stronger. And yes, this was Merrill's intention she asked Hawke for help. The reason I think it would care for Marethari more than Merrill is because Marethari is a leader of a group of people. We've seen pride demons be attracted to that kind of thing before, between Uldred leading his rebellion to the Baroness leading a town and so on.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 9, 2018 20:09:40 GMT
I suppose Audacity targeted both of them (I don't think a pride demon care about that Keeper or First – why would?). But Merrill was stronger. And yes, this was Merrill's intention she asked Hawke for help. The reason I think it would care for Marethari more than Merrill is because Marethari is a leader of a group of people. We've seen pride demons be attracted to that kind of thing before, between Uldred leading his rebellion to the Baroness leading a town and so on. It's never a problem to kill someone.
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Post by Iddy on Jul 11, 2018 2:15:17 GMT
"The keeper is going to delve into the ancient magics for this half-breed? She wouldn't do so for me!"
Not racist or anything.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jul 24, 2018 4:41:40 GMT
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 26, 2018 8:57:27 GMT
First time I played, I choose "Marethari was possessed" Because I assumed explaining the situation would make the dalish understand what happened. And lo and behold, they were all dead a couple minutes later. Then there is "I'll take responsability". What does that even mean? I am supposed to take thirty lashes in her place I have to agree with you here. The first time I played, I chose the "possessed" option because Merrill had told me the Dalish are sometimes forced to hunt and kill Keepers who become possessed, so I thought they would understand. Instead I ended up with a clan of dead Dalish. From what I recall, taking responsibility applies to Merrill. I understood that as taking responsibility for her actions. Why should I? I was never in favour of her dealing with a demon and dabbling in blood magic. I only went along this time because I could see the sense in being on hand if something should go wrong. If it had been case of saying I am fully prepared to take responsibility for my actions that would have been different except I thought choosing that would make the Dalish attack me because I was taking responsibility for killing their Keeper. It was one of those times when the options didn't match the words the came out of Hawke's mouth or what you think would be the appropriate response to it by the clan. Every option but one resulted in a massacre and the one option that didn't seemed to me to be the one option that would have resulted in them attacking me.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 26, 2018 9:10:08 GMT
That said, I'm of the opinion that Audacity was never interested in Merrill but their target was Marethari.
I think this was true and Audacity played Marethari perfectly. He allowed her to think his target was Merrill but all the time his real focus was Marethari. Then he finally succeeded in persuading Marethari that the only way to protect Merrill from him was to allow herself to be possessed. Marethari was a fool. I don't know what Audacity's range was for possession but I would have thought sealing the cave with a rock fall would have been a better option. If Merrill (and Marethari) believed that she need Audacity's help to activate the mirror and she had to be in physical proximity to him to communicate, then block off all access. Better still, just destroy the eluvian or bury that under a shed load of rock. Why in the hell did Marethari even let her bring it with them when they left Ferelden?
I actually think feel sorry for the rest of the clan because clearly Marethari didn't care about their safety enough. If she had a debt to Flemeth, then honour it herself but leave the rest of the clan out of it. However, once the debt was paid, get the hell out of there, halla or no halla. It was that simple.
I should mention that the reason this quest so upset me is that I usually play elves if I can and my first Warden was a Dalish one, so this was his family. I had received a boon that should have seen my family living safely in Ferelden. My foster mother was still there at the end of DAO. Then suddenly I find the majority of them had left for Sundermount, lost all the halla and apparently all the children as well - conspicuous by their absence since I had helped the storyteller teach a group in the Dalish origin. In the end I had to headcanon that the clan had split up and the group with my foster mother and children was still back in Ferelden.
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Post by Iddy on Jul 26, 2018 12:06:50 GMT
That said, I'm of the opinion that Audacity was never interested in Merrill but their target was Marethari.
I think this was true and Audacity played Marethari perfectly. He allowed her to think his target was Merrill but all the time his real focus was Marethari. Then he finally succeeded in persuading Marethari that the only way to protect Merrill from him was to allow herself to be possessed. Marethari was a fool. I don't know what Audacity's range was for possession but I would have thought sealing the cave with a rock fall would have been a better option. If Merrill (and Marethari) believed that she need Audacity's help to activate the mirror and she had to be in physical proximity to him to communicate, then block off all access. Better still, just destroy the eluvian or bury that under a shed load of rock. Why in the hell did Marethari even let her bring it with them when they left Ferelden?
I actually think feel sorry for the rest of the clan because clearly Marethari didn't care about their safety enough. If she had a debt to Flemeth, then honour it herself but leave the rest of the clan out of it. However, once the debt was paid, get the hell out of there, halla or no halla. It was that simple.
I should mention that the reason this quest so upset me is that I usually play elves if I can and my first Warden was a Dalish one, so this was his family. I had received a boon that should have seen my family living safely in Ferelden. My foster mother was still there at the end of DAO. Then suddenly I find the majority of them had left for Sundermount, lost all the halla and apparently all the children as well - conspicuous by their absence since I had helped the storyteller teach a group in the Dalish origin. In the end I had to headcanon that the clan had split up and the group with my foster mother and children was still back in Ferelden. Someone asked the writers about Ashalle's whereabouts once and the writers pretty much confirmed that she stayed behind to take care of the lands given by the crown.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jul 26, 2018 15:44:49 GMT
Someone asked the writers about Ashalle's whereabouts once and the writers pretty much confirmed that she stayed behind to take care of the lands given by the crown. Thank you, I didn't know that. When DA2 can't even get the dates right about the previous Keeper (who was said to be the Warden's father in DAO), as for them to be true it would have made my Dalish Warden around 47 years of age, I didn't hold out much hope for anything else. Of course, if Alistair is King then if you take Merrill to meet him he seems to hint that the Dalish boon didn't work out (which allowed them to ignore it in DAI) but at least Ashelle, the children and whoever stayed behind with her could disappear back in the Brecilian Forest, which would be a lot nicer than the area they were given in the boon anyway; the area between Ostagar and the Korcari Wilds, so pretty much blighted land given that is where the darkspawn stayed the longest - thanks a lot.
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Post by thats1evildude on Aug 27, 2018 2:45:38 GMT
Merrill art from Twitter.
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Post by thats1evildude on Sept 11, 2018 7:29:18 GMT
Merrill cosplay. Original cosplayer is Lalale Pandey. www.instagram.com/lalalepandeyr/https://www.reddit.com/r/cosplaygirls/comments/95n6sy/merrill_dragon_age_by_lalale_pandey/
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Post by Iddy on Sept 11, 2018 12:56:29 GMT
Do you guys think that Merrill would make a deal with a demon again?
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Post by Catilina on Sept 11, 2018 16:25:03 GMT
Do you guys think that Merrill would make a deal with a demon again? She will deal with a demon? Perhaps. She will be possessed or let someone possess? I don't think so.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 11, 2018 19:26:27 GMT
Do you guys think that Merrill would make a deal with a demon again? I don't think so. After the traumatic experiences she has had due to Audacity, I think she will avoid those kinds of deals in the future. At most it will be deals like the one with the Hunger Demon possessing the Rock Wraith.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 16, 2018 19:56:32 GMT
I like that line she has with Aveline "I'd rather keep it with him/her". Makes me want to romance her, even if I'm not planning to!
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