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Post by Catilina on Jul 9, 2019 10:50:09 GMT
Velanna was planned to be the host of Justice in the designing early phase (elven line?). I read somewhere is Jowan was planned as the rebellious blood mage (healer?) at the Darktown (mage rebellion-line?). I'm absolutely satisfied with the final version, while I'm one of the ones, who love Velanna and Jowan too. But also: Merrill's not stupid, idiot etc. She is kind-hearted and smart. I don't understand why someone think, she's stupid/idiot, but I see the conception/intention behind that. It's about the friendship/rivalry system, what created to show, the characters grow better in rivalry. I disagree, while I found the system fun – it needs a big upgrade to be really good and believable – the existed version sometimes just harsh, and not even convincing, especially in Merrill's and Anders' case. And Anders just perfect with Justice, I feel this is their fate. Velanna wouldn't be that perfect to me, in various reasons, while would have been also interesting, I can't deny that: there some banter with her and Justice – I would curious, how they planned their arc... but again: Anders just was too perfect to this role. Buckeldemon I agree about. Both are funny/good characters on their own way. And yes, I also rather see, people speak shit about Velanna, one of the most hated character, as I saw, sadly. She has many very good conversation, especially with Justice, but even the others and the Warden. I don't get the hatred.
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Post by Dukemon on Jul 9, 2019 13:55:48 GMT
Velanna was the better Dalish companion. She was not an idiot and you could talk to her. You just here to shit into the character/romance topic, or you're able to say some constructive things? It is only my two cents about Merrill. In comparison I prefer Velanna, because she does not misunderstand the PC without any reason. Best scene for Merrill stupidity when Pol runs away from her. Hawke calls him a coward. He refers about the fact that Pol run away from Merrill because she is a bloodmage and don't listen to reason. Merrills only reaction is that Hawke is only a stupid Shemlen. That is one of many situations. Velanna behavior is like many other Dalish. The PC never meets the Keeper of her Clan and takes the liberty of saying that Velanna would be a good keeper. Means he is saying the Keeper was wrong. I think Velanna is right, when she complains the Warden. On the other hand, she takes good advice from the Warden. Even she gives approval. Merrill does not. She gives everytime disapproval/rivalery for good advices.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 9, 2019 14:24:30 GMT
You just here to shit into the character/romance topic, or you're able to say some constructive things? It is only my two cents about Merrill. In comparison I prefer Velanna, because she does not misunderstand the PC without any reason. Best scene for Merrill stupidity when Pol runs away from her. Hawke calls him a coward. He refers about the fact that Pol run away from Merrill because she is a bloodmage and don't listen to reason. Merrills only reaction is that Hawke is only a stupid Shemlen. That is one of many situations. Velanna behavior is like many other Dalish. The PC never meets the Keeper of her Clan and takes the liberty of saying that Velanna would be a good keeper. Means he is saying the Keeper was wrong. I think Velanna is right, when she complains the Warden. On the other hand, she takes good advice from the Warden. Even she gives approval. Merrill does not. She gives everytime disapproval/rivalery for good advices. And you're wrong. Pol runs away not because of Merrill, but because of Marethari's stupidity. Merrill doesn't want to kill him, she warns him. Pol doesn't listen her, because of Marethari infected him with fear. Also: Who is possessed at the end? Marethari, not her. Who is proud enough to work secretly, because of her obsession? Yes, Marethari, not Merrill. Who jeopardizes her whole clan with her obsession? MARETHARI. She treats Merrill like the (idiot) parents their children, while Merrill is adult. She should have to leave the Sundermount with the clan years ago, as Merrill said, but she stood here, because she loved better Merrill than her clan (Fenarel). And who is wise enough to ask for help if she fails the "spirit"? Merrill. She knew the danger, and asked for help. Marethari also knew the danger, but didn't ask for help, and her stupidity and stubbornness, obsession (almost) kill her clan. Merrill's reaction in rivalry is absolutely logical (except the end, if she smashs the Eluvian). What are the other situations? Merrill is very wise seems her young age. Also, she's patient and always keep her kindness, even with anyone who rude toward her. Fenris, perhaps Hawke, and Anders. She can be sarcastic, but never malevolent. She's not good at understanding people's behaviour, yet, she has emotional intelligence. I said, I love Velanna too, but her clan exiled her, just like Merrill. I just say. Velanna isn't better than Merrill, they're different, and both have reasons.
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Post by Iddy on Jul 9, 2019 17:15:28 GMT
Velanna was the better Dalish companion. She was not an idiot and you could talk to her. Velanna is elf Morrigan. Knowledgeable, but not wise.
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Quickpaw
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Quickpaw on Jul 21, 2019 21:03:09 GMT
Something that is confusing me about timelines here (I noticed this on my last run of Witch Hunt). How much of the Brecillinan Eluvian does Merrill have to build off of? Given that we know the beginnings of DAII as one year since Lothering's destruction and that Anders is there as well... In WH you return to the location of the Elven ruins from the Dalish Origin to find most of the Eluvian still there, just smashed.
But Merrill HAD to have been here beforehand, since Clan Sabrae up and left likely BEFORE the horde got past Ostagar (the fast travel mechanic REALLY screws up timetables and the order of events, but that's for another time). Given that WH is likely at least a year, possibly more removed from the Battle of Denerim (Morrigan had to have given birth and then more time passes), did Merrill just grab the single shard or more than that?
(I find it highly unlikely that Anders could have reached Kirkwall in the timeframe we're given officially, what with how much time he HAD to have spent in Amaranthine I mean COME ON, I know most of Awakening was ignored/retconed for the rest of the series but STILL. Awakening, Amgaraak, and Witch Hunt all happening in less than one YEAR? No way you're convincing me that is the case. Hell, the events of Origins ALONE should have taken a year if not 6 or more months.)
So if Witch Hunt happened after Clan Sabrae left Ferelden (which it had to), then Merrill only has a limited amount of the original Eluvian to work with, which partially explains why she's having so much trouble restoring/reconstructing it. They could also work like the closet doors of Monsters Inc, only able to function if you rebuild the whole thing from its original pieces.
Again, gaming timelines are screwy.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Jul 21, 2019 21:44:48 GMT
I agree that the timeline for DA 2 is rather...dodgy Origins takes part across a time-frame of about one year, Awakening takes place a few months later in that same time frame Morrigan was pregnant, so she gave birth about two or three months after Awakening took place (depending on when she got pregnant during the Blight, either on the eve of the Battle of Denerim or even before that)
I imagine during Witch Hunt Kieran is no older then a month or two
Anders leaves for the Free Marches after Awakening
likely even during the events of Witch Hunt (with the Warden being very confused when they return to Amaranthine and several of their Wardens are dead and Anders is missing) so Anders arrives in Kirkwall in the year 9.31-9.32 (which is the same year as when Hawke meets Varric)
Merrill might've gone back to the ruin before the clan had to leave and gathered a few of the shards of the eluvian though during her dialogues in DA2 I thought it was implied she took just one shard... after all during Witch Hunt there are still several pieces still laying about for Finn to use in his scrying
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 4, 2019 18:03:14 GMT
Most_Toasty @most_ToastyPlease bring Merrill back for dragon age 4 please. #DragonAge #illustrations #fanart Ghast Whisperer thats1evildudeWhile I really like your cute drawing of my sweet Merrill, I’d rather NOT see her in DA4. They’ll make her join Solas and turn on me. And that’ll destroy me. 😢 (Also, I heard a rumour that Eve Myles hated the role.) Eve Myles @teamevemylesI loved it x
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Post by Iddy on Sept 5, 2019 11:35:27 GMT
I could see Merrill joining Solas if she were told that the magic is totally safe. She is often too eager to believe that, like when she agreed with Janeka's plan.
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revelationeffect
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 5, 2019 12:39:57 GMT
Oh yeah, she would totally join Solas, especially given her fascination with the ancient elves and her tendency to be overly accepting of justifications for using potentially dangerous magic. That said, it seems likely that you'd have a chance to talk her out of it seeing as she also would heavily disapprove of Solas' methods and end goal should she know about them.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 5, 2019 17:56:30 GMT
Merrill has multiple conversations about how she learned not to trust the Dread Wolf. Between that and her character development in DA2, she’d be one of the last people to join Solas.
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Post by vertigomez on Sept 5, 2019 22:17:08 GMT
I want to believe that Merrill wouldn't join Solas - that her love for Isabela, Varric, Hawke, etc. would prevent her from going down that road. But there was that scene in the Fade where she was tempted by a Pride demon (Solas = Pride.....) and... this happened.
Pride demon: Would you take what I offered the boy? Scion of the Dalish, savior of elvenkind? Merrill: Can you do that? Pride demon: I am the greatest of my kind. Whatever tricks your little pet has taught you will pale in comparison. Merrill: (to Hawke) I cannot put you ahead of the fate of my people. *attacks*
So I honestly think it depends on how her views and priorities have changed over the years, whether she would 100% doubt Solas because he's the Dread Wolf - holding fast to her people's legends - or, as with her interest in blood magic and the eluvians, she's willing to overlook what could be considered superstition to uncover real elven history. She doesn't have all the meta info that we do, so I think it's hard to say.
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Post by Sifr on Sept 7, 2019 18:16:59 GMT
I could see Merrill being swayed by join Solas' side due to the temptation of a restored Elvhenan and chance to discover the true history of the People. Merrill has always been depicted as someone who is willing to do anything to help her people, regardless of the cost to herself and if it requires her to compromise her own morals and values.
I don't know whether she'd still support Solas once she found out how destructive his plan to bring down the Veil might actually be. But I can see Merrill (initially) supporting the plan to tear down the Veil, even if it meant releasing the Evanuris, if that was the only way to restore Elvhenan.
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Post by SwobyJ on Sept 20, 2019 3:19:57 GMT
I can see a story being contrived to have her participate in Solas' schemes, but DA2 treatment might determine how willing she is to drink the kool aid.
Then as a forced event, she is shocked by the extent of things and does something redeeming.
She's still very close to her values. But she's also likely (again, depending) had something of a humbling experience through DA2. I think she can range anywhere from antagonistic to a new protagonist, to a spy/source for our side, and either can fit a similar plot.
And even in antagonism, I don't see her becoming a devotee to Solas unless magically compelled or the like.
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Post by revelationeffect on Sept 22, 2019 15:38:07 GMT
Yeah, I highly doubt she'd be unshakably loyal to Solas, but her interest in the ancient elves is very significant and I somehow doubt that if Solas recruited her he'd open with "hey I'm the Dread Wolf", most likely he'd tempt her with insights into ancient elven culture and the eluvians, and even if she had that humbling experience it's very believable that she might be willing to contribute given that the majority of the risk wouldn't be on her. It's an opportunity I doubt she'd pass up. I also have a hard time believing that any version of Merrill would not cut ties if she knew the extent of the devastation tearing down the Veil would cause, she may be very invested in the ancient elves but not anywhere near to the point where she'd be willing to see everyone she's ever known annihilated, especially given in most canons where she's alive she spends the time during DAI helping the alienage elves and gets more invested in people beyond Hawke and co.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 22, 2019 16:10:22 GMT
The thing is, no matter what by the time she would even have the opportunity to join him she’d already know the truth about him and his plans through Varric. With how much he watches over her, there is no way he wouldn’t tell her at least that much to protect her.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 19, 2019 18:01:54 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2019 4:18:27 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 6, 2019 2:26:48 GMT
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 21, 2020 6:07:24 GMT
love the tag someone posted beneath it as well #Seb is basically ‘I accidentally joined a gang but they’re too nice to leave’
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Post by Iddy on May 22, 2020 1:54:54 GMT
Hawke is adamantly anti-blood magic in DAI.
If you accept that as fact, does it make it impossible to explain him/her being with Merrill?
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Post by Buckeldemon on May 22, 2020 2:05:20 GMT
Hawke is adamantly anti-blood magic in DAI. If you accept that as fact, does it make it impossible to explain him/her being with Merrill? It appears as if you got that backwards. I accept the fact that Hawke's cameo in DAI is flawed, up to the point that a mage Hawke might come across as an utter hypocrite. That is not my Hawke in any case, and it makes me somewhat afraid of how a writer could mess up a possible appearance of the Inquisitor in DA4, especially since there are far more things to mess up. Just take the whole faith question. Otherwise, it is just a case of #NotMyHawke. Well, in case of Shepard, I'm doing that ever since I played ME2 for the very first time. Besides, ME2's whole premise would support that, regardless of what a husk-eyed chainsmoker and his favourite Mary Sue would claim about their space magic.
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Post by Iddy on May 22, 2020 13:38:34 GMT
Hawke is adamantly anti-blood magic in DAI. If you accept that as fact, does it make it impossible to explain him/her being with Merrill? It appears as if you got that backwards. I accept the fact that Hawke's cameo in DAI is flawed, up to the point that a mage Hawke might come across as an utter hypocrite. That is not my Hawke in any case, and it makes me somewhat afraid of how a writer could mess up a possible appearance of the Inquisitor in DA4, especially since there are far more things to mess up. Just take the whole faith question. Otherwise, it is just a case of #NotMyHawke. Well, in case of Shepard, I'm doing that ever since I played ME2 for the very first time. Besides, ME2's whole premise would support that, regardless of what a husk-eyed chainsmoker and his favourite Mary Sue would claim about their space magic. My question is specifically about the scenario where the player accepts that's their Hawke. And that is all I want to discuss.
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on May 22, 2020 17:35:58 GMT
I'd like to (again) point out it's Varric telling a story...so he'd likely change certain aspects about Hawke, both in looks and abilities I actually wouldn't put it past him to change up some of Hawke's standpoints on things like blood magic as well only for Hawke to be all "...I never said that" when they finally read the book
and I don't see it as being hypocritical for Hawke to be against blood magic and still be with Merrill it just means this particular Hawke (likely) looked past Merrill's abilities and saw her for who she is beneath just as Fenris does with a mage Hawke or Bethany, he looks past them being a mage and sees Hawke/Bethany for who they are
mage Hawke: [to Fenris] blaming magic isn't the answer Fenris: for every mage such as you, there's a dozen more out there to weak to responsibly handle their powers. Them I fear, as should you, as should anyone
and as I said a while back in a different thread, if we really care to split hairs every Bioware protagonist should remain single because (nearly) every LI has issues of one shape or another
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Post by Iddy on May 22, 2020 19:18:44 GMT
I'd like to (again) point out it's Varric telling a story...so he'd likely change certain aspects about Hawke, both in looks and abilities I actually wouldn't put it past him to change up some of Hawke's standpoints on things like blood magic as well only for Hawke to be all "...I never said that" when they finally read the book
and I don't see it as being hypocritical for Hawke to be against blood magic and still be with Merrill it just means this particular Hawke (likely) looked past Merrill's abilities and saw her for who she is beneath just as Fenris does with a mage Hawke or Bethany, he looks past them being a mage and sees Hawke/Bethany for who they are
mage Hawke: [to Fenris] blaming magic isn't the answer Fenris: for every mage such as you, there's a dozen more out there to weak to responsibly handle their powers. Them I fear, as should you, as should anyone
and as I said a while back in a different thread, if we really care to split hairs every Bioware protagonist should remain single because (nearly) every LI has issues of one shape or another Isn't DA2 the game that is told from Varric's pov?
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Post by LadyofNemesis on May 22, 2020 19:33:27 GMT
I'd like to (again) point out it's Varric telling a story...so he'd likely change certain aspects about Hawke, both in looks and abilities I actually wouldn't put it past him to change up some of Hawke's standpoints on things like blood magic as well only for Hawke to be all "...I never said that" when they finally read the book
and I don't see it as being hypocritical for Hawke to be against blood magic and still be with Merrill it just means this particular Hawke (likely) looked past Merrill's abilities and saw her for who she is beneath just as Fenris does with a mage Hawke or Bethany, he looks past them being a mage and sees Hawke/Bethany for who they are
mage Hawke: [to Fenris] blaming magic isn't the answer Fenris: for every mage such as you, there's a dozen more out there to weak to responsibly handle their powers. Them I fear, as should you, as should anyone
and as I said a while back in a different thread, if we really care to split hairs every Bioware protagonist should remain single because (nearly) every LI has issues of one shape or another Isn't DA2 the game that is told from Varric's pov? Well, yes? After all he tells the story to Cassandra, first his epic book version which she interrupts and insists he tells the real version to which he asks her; Varric: you're not worried I'll just make it up as I go? Cassandra: not at all
if you'll notice, after she says this he smirks, saying "you'll need to know the whole story" however this is where we as players come in, we tell the "whole story" but no one said it's the real story
which is what I meant with my post, Varric tells it to Cassandra, we as players create the story he later embellishes...but even we as the player don't know the real story and I think that's the point of playing a historical figure (which is what Hawke technically is by the time Cass interrogates Varric), only the people who were there know the real deal in time details become muddled, such as quotes said by people...strange habits they might've had, you name it
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