wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 14, 2019 13:13:30 GMT
If it happens i hope it is a major element of the game rather than something off in the background. Hope its handled far better than Mage-Templar was in DAI too.
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Feb 14, 2019 20:44:13 GMT
I really hope the opposite. I want the war with the Qun plus the Tevinter politics to be the foreground main thrust of the story while the Solas stuff happens in the background...and you will need to resolve both plotlines before continuing on. Yeah thats a lot more interessing than another save the world story. I really don´t care for the Solas plot. We all knew that he´ll stop in one way or another.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 14, 2019 21:35:03 GMT
I really hope the opposite. I want the war with the Qun plus the Tevinter politics to be the foreground main thrust of the story while the Solas stuff happens in the background...and you will need to resolve both plotlines before continuing on. Yeah thats a lot more interessing than another save the world story. I really don´t care for the Solas plot. We all knew that he´ll stop in one way or another. oh i think that the Solas plot will still be a big part of the game (even the main plot) but what im HOPING for is that it will be a big backdrop for the politics and the war and that it will take on a philosophical bent. Solas says he wants to be proven wrong so imagine if how we resolve the war and what kind of society we begin to make Tevinter into will convince him? What if side quests that support both narratives actually has an impact on them. I want to start small. As a mercenary or random soldier or vigilante or gladiator ( all things ive heard discussed) who through their actions gets to a point where they are actively effecting the outcome and then can stop Solas by proving him wrong. Bioware has a golden oppeotunity to give us something special i just hope they deliver.
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Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 14, 2019 21:51:32 GMT
The War could easily be a game in itself an i dont think the pursuit of Solas an his plans would warrant much interference in that pursuit so i could see them doing a W3 style with Geralts pursuit of Ciri with War raging an him seeing, and at times participating, but it actually not the center of the story, this story after all will be centered on Solas i believe, now maybe the war will play a big part in that but im guessing like Heimdall said it be more background I really hope the opposite. I want the war with the Qun plus the Tevinter politics to be the foreground main thrust of the story while the Solas stuff happens in the background...and you will need to resolve both plotlines before continuing on. Hmm, maybe I should revise what i said. I like the idea of dealing with Qunari and Tevinter politics as big part of the plot. What I don’t want is the resolution of the war being a plot point. Maybe it’s just how BioWare handled the Orlesian war and the mage Templar war, but I don’t really trust them to handle that well. So while we can take part in some big events of the war, I’d rather the resolution waited until after Solas was dealt with and likely not even until another game.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 14, 2019 22:12:09 GMT
I really hope the opposite. I want the war with the Qun plus the Tevinter politics to be the foreground main thrust of the story while the Solas stuff happens in the background...and you will need to resolve both plotlines before continuing on. Hmm, maybe I should revise what i said. I like the idea of dealing with Qunari and Tevinter politics as big part of the plot. What I don’t want is the resolution of the war being a plot point. Maybe it’s just how BioWare handled the Orlesian war and the mage Templar war, but I don’t really trust them to handle that well. So while we can take part in some big events of the war, I’d rather the resolution waited until after Solas was dealt with and likely not even until another game. i dont blame you. Honestly though i expect them to end the war as a cease fire rather then a full alliance. Both sides will still hate eachother but since Solass plot is the larger threat the two sides will put aside their differences at least temporarily. I think the stuff with the Qun is too juicy for bioware to just resolve, theyll leave it sonewhat open ended so maybe they can revisit it at a later date.
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Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 14, 2019 22:31:51 GMT
Hmm, maybe I should revise what i said. I like the idea of dealing with Qunari and Tevinter politics as big part of the plot. What I don’t want is the resolution of the war being a plot point. Maybe it’s just how BioWare handled the Orlesian war and the mage Templar war, but I don’t really trust them to handle that well. So while we can take part in some big events of the war, I’d rather the resolution waited until after Solas was dealt with and likely not even until another game. i dont blame you. Honestly though i expect them to end the war as a cease fire rather then a full alliance. Both sides will still hate eachother but since Solass plot is the larger threat the two sides will put aside their differences at least temporarily. I think the stuff with the Qun is too juicy for bioware to just resolve, theyll leave it sonewhat open ended so maybe they can revisit it at a later date. I can actually see that happening in my preferred scenario, though it would be more they agree to stop fighting until Solas is dealt with and resume immediately after.
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Feb 14, 2019 22:33:16 GMT
oh i think that the Solas plot will still be a big part of the game (even the main plot) but what im HOPING for is that it will be a big backdrop for the politics and the war and that it will take on a philosophical bent. Of course he will play a very important role and would likely be the DA 4 Endboss but isn´t that boring? There is the surprise in having another Corypheus?
Maybe Bioware / Patrick Weekes could take inspirations from Kotor 2 Kreia. This was also not a revelation that Kreia became the Endboss but it was a very fascinating journey.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 14, 2019 23:00:30 GMT
oh i think that the Solas plot will still be a big part of the game (even the main plot) but what im HOPING for is that it will be a big backdrop for the politics and the war and that it will take on a philosophical bent. Of course he will play a very important role and would likely be the DA 4 Endboss but isn´t that boring? There is the surprise in having another Corypheus?
Maybe Bioware / Patrick Weekes could take inspirations from Kotor 2 Kreia. This was also not a revelation that Kreia became the Endboss but it was a very fascinating journey.
but Solas isnt another Cory already. I prefer to think of him along the same lines as TIM. A morally gray allied character who does risky things in the name of the 'greater good' that then becomes an antagonist. The problem is that while TIM was a very juicy character to have as your friend he went full mustach twirl in ME 3. How they solve that problem where Solas is concerned I am not exactly sure. I think giving the protagonist a personal stake against him or some kind of connection is the way to go but what that is I can only speculate.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Feb 14, 2019 23:11:25 GMT
but Solas isnt another Cory already. I prefer to think of him along the same lines as TIM. A morally gray allied character who does risky things in the name of the 'greater good' that then becomes an antagonist. He is another guy to wants to destroy the world. He has different goals than Corypheus but does it really matter at the end? Solas will get stop at the end of DA 4. So whats the point of this story? Bioware really should get on with it and focus more on the more interessing Tevinter Qunari war.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 14, 2019 23:18:26 GMT
but Solas isnt another Cory already. I prefer to think of him along the same lines as TIM. A morally gray allied character who does risky things in the name of the 'greater good' that then becomes an antagonist. He is another guy to wants to destroy the world. He has different goals than Corypheus but does it really matter at the end? Solas will get stop at the end of DA 4. So whats the point of this story? Bioware really should get on with it and focus more on the more interessing Tevinter Qunari war.
Having not played the game yet...obviously...I cannot tell you what the 'point' of said story would be. The point of the story brings up thoughts of a story's theme or moral lesson. First of all we don't actually know that we WILL stop him. Maybe he will suceed, maybe he'll fail, maybe he will try and only partially fail or try to stop himself at the last second only to partially suceed? Maybe whether or not we stop him is tied into the war with the Qunari in any number of interesting ways? Or maybe he'll suceed and it won't be as bad as he claimed (or maybe he was lying?) Second the question for me is not will we stop him but HOW will we stop him. Yes they could go down the generic mustache twirling 'end boss' route where we have some cliche fight for the fate of all exisistance and then he'll be just another TIM or Cory in the end or maybe since he is literally one of the most powerful beings in Thedas that fighting him will be impossible so we will have to talk him down? Maybe it will be one or the other depending on the circumstances. There are ways they could go do this and most of them I think are legitimate. They could tell a great story with a great cast of characters and great antagonists or they may not and we'll still probably get a great game anyways.
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Heimdall
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 14, 2019 23:19:38 GMT
but Solas isnt another Cory already. I prefer to think of him along the same lines as TIM. A morally gray allied character who does risky things in the name of the 'greater good' that then becomes an antagonist. He is another guy to wants to destroy the world. He has different goals than Corypheus but does it really matter at the end? I actually would argue that Cory had the backstory and motivations to be an interesting villain, only the story never really took advantage of it or explored it. It will depend on how BioWare utilizes Solas.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 14, 2019 23:20:45 GMT
Of course he will play a very important role and would likely be the DA 4 Endboss but isn´t that boring? There is the surprise in having another Corypheus?
Maybe Bioware / Patrick Weekes could take inspirations from Kotor 2 Kreia. This was also not a revelation that Kreia became the Endboss but it was a very fascinating journey.
but Solas isnt another Cory already. I prefer to think of him along the same lines as TIM. A morally gray allied character who does risky things in the name of the 'greater good' that then becomes an antagonist. The problem is that while TIM was a very juicy character to have as your friend he went full mustach twirl in ME 3. How they solve that problem where Solas is concerned I am not exactly sure. I think giving the protagonist a personal stake against him or some kind of connection is the way to go but what that is I can only speculate. If we are a new protagonist he absolutely is another Cory.
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Feb 14, 2019 23:30:19 GMT
Having not played the game yet...obviously...I cannot tell you what the 'point' of said story would be. The point of the story brings up thoughts of a story's theme or moral lesson. First of all we don't actually know that we WILL stop him. Maybe he will suceed, maybe he'll fail, maybe he will try and only partially fail or try to stop himself at the last second only to partially suceed? Maybe whether or not we stop him is tied into the war with the Qunari in any number of interesting ways? Or maybe he'll suceed and it won't be as bad as he claimed (or maybe he was lying?) Well it would be a big surprise if Solas win but this is almost impossible. I really don´t think that Bioware have the guts to let him win
So we will stop him or he will stopped/killed by someone else. Is that really that important? Is another save the world story and i am tired of these. I prefer the more political stories. Solas is simple good vs the evil person who wants to destroy the world. I don´t care if he had noble intentions that doesn´t if want to destroy the world and kill almost everybody. Tevinter and the Qunari are a lot more juicy because they were characterize in a more grey - villian area.
I actually would argue that Cory had the backstory and motivations to be an interesting villain, only the story never really took advantage of it or explored it. It will depend on how BioWare utilizes Solas. Again does it really matter if Corypheus had a better backstory and motivation? At the end he is another Bad Guy to wants to destroy the world. He is basically not that different than the Archdemon or Darth Malak.
If we are a new protagonist he absolutely is another Cory. Also with the Inquisitor. Is it really that different if the Hero knows him? The playercharacter will stop him at the end and he/she cannot join him. No surprise. Solas would be the third endboss who wants to destroy Thedas. Its unimaginative that Bioware repeat this story all-over again. But how many times can a player save the world and not get bored?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 14, 2019 23:53:38 GMT
If we are a new protagonist he absolutely is another Cory. Also with the Inquisitor. Is it really that different if the Hero knows him? The playercharacter will stop him at the end and he/she cannot join him. No surprise. Solas would be the third endboss who wants to destroy Thedas. Its unimaginative that Bioware repeat this story all-over again. But how many times can a player save the world and not get bored? Yes, it is really that different if the hero knows him. That connections changes the relationship from simply hero tries to stop villain from destroying the world into something far more interesting. The Vader/Luke stuff wouldn't be as interesting if they didn't have a connection for example.
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Feb 15, 2019 0:04:45 GMT
Yes, it is really that different if the hero knows him. That connections changes the relationship from simply hero tries to stop villain from destroying the world into something far more interesting. The Vader/Luke stuff wouldn't be as interesting if they didn't have a connection for example. No it doesn´t. It won´t change the plot that the Inquisitor will stop Solas for destroying the world. Master Li or Darth Malak also had personal connections with the hero but at the end they got stopped. But i have to admit Master Li was a good twist. Sorry this changes only details.
This could only be surprising if Solas succeed or if the Inquisitior can join him.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 15, 2019 0:08:00 GMT
Yes, it is really that different if the hero knows him. That connections changes the relationship from simply hero tries to stop villain from destroying the world into something far more interesting. The Vader/Luke stuff wouldn't be as interesting if they didn't have a connection for example. No it doesn´t. It won´t change the plot that the Inquisitor will stop Solas for destroying the world. Master Li or Darth Malak also had personal connections with the hero but at the end they got stopped. But i have to admit Master Li was a good twist. Sorry this changes only details.
This could only be surprising if Solas succeed or if the Inquisitior can join him.
It doesn't change the plot as a series of events, but it changes everything else. Context, motivation, etc. To use my earlier example, you think nothing in Star Wars would be different if some random Rebel who had none of what Luke had with Vader was the one to face him? Details are what make a story unique and engaging. Every kind of story at its most basic has been done before. The kind of stuff you want has been done to death just as much as the stuff you don't want. At this point I think you're just arguing to argue. Fact of the matter is Solas will e the main plot of the next game, so you'll just have to accept that.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 15, 2019 0:16:21 GMT
but Solas isnt another Cory already. I prefer to think of him along the same lines as TIM. A morally gray allied character who does risky things in the name of the 'greater good' that then becomes an antagonist. The problem is that while TIM was a very juicy character to have as your friend he went full mustach twirl in ME 3. How they solve that problem where Solas is concerned I am not exactly sure. I think giving the protagonist a personal stake against him or some kind of connection is the way to go but what that is I can only speculate. If we are a new protagonist he absolutely is another Cory. not neccessairily. I doubt its even likely given the differences in the character. Furthermore we are just as likely to have another Cory situation with the Inquisitor as the protag.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 15, 2019 0:22:04 GMT
If we are a new protagonist he absolutely is another Cory. not neccessairily. I doubt its even likely given the differences in the character. Furthermore we are just as likely to have another Cory situation with the Inquisitor as the protag. Not really. Trespasser already almost completely eliminated that possibility if we continue as Inquisitor. If they go with a new PC, then it reverses and it is all but certain that it will be Cory 2.0 or at the very best a watered down version of the potential Inquisitor had.
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Post by Heimdall on Feb 15, 2019 1:22:15 GMT
Again does it really matter if Corypheus had a better backstory and motivation?At the end he is another Bad Guy to wants to destroy the world. He is basically not that different than the Archdemon or Darth Malak. Yes? It’s the difference between a boring villain and one that actually has a bit of depth to them. The Archdemon was boring. Malak was at least somewhat threatening and was a bit more interesting by the end due to the personal connection between him and Revan. Of course the best backstory in the world can’t help you if the story never engages with it and the plot whittles down the sense of threat to near nil by the end: that was Corypheus’ problem, that was what made him barely more interesting than the Archdemon.
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Post by colfoley on Feb 15, 2019 1:28:30 GMT
Honestly Cory's motivation and backstory were just fine...fun and engaging...where he suffered was on screen presence and presentation. Namely the fact that he was A. muhahaha on screen, or B. a rage monster. I quite liked Corypheus but only because the lore portrayed him one way and...honestly the Inquisition just got lucky/ Divine Providence. With his talents and mind he should've squashed us like a bug (and nearly did). But we got lucky.
Anyways back to the matter at hand that is what BioWare needs to look out for no matter which of us is right on the whole relationship between the Warand the plan to stop Solas. We need nuanced characterizations and to give them screen time. Best BioWare antagonist might just be the Arishock because they actually gave us time to get to know him...in and out of character.
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Post by wickedcool on Feb 15, 2019 16:55:11 GMT
I’m hoping for a dao approach to all Each region will be part of a questline towards recruiting and getting keys to defeat solas pushback qunari etc
My first guess is darkspawn and dragons are tied into solution
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Post by boxofscreaming on Feb 15, 2019 21:41:06 GMT
Hasn't the Tevinter-Qunari war been going on for centuries? Didn't Sten and Iron Bull fight in it?
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 16, 2019 16:22:39 GMT
I think it will be one of the two main quests while Solas will be the main main one. Sort of like how the Blight is the main quest in DAO, the stuff with Loghain was also a major questline. I just hope we aren't forced to pick a sidfe like we were with the Mages and Templars and instead be like the Quarians and Geth where you could choose either or if you made certain choices could actually get both as allies. That one only worked because:
1. Both sides were too depleted to keep fighting indefinitely.
2. The Reapers were the bigger threat.
3. The geth were never as invested in conflict as the quarians, and just wanted to be left alone.
4. The writers were willing to ignore centuries of war, hatred, desperation and (relatively) human nature just to give players a Deus Ex Machina Mega Happy Ending. It would have one thing if they made it clear that the truce was clearly temporary, a band aid on a gunshot wound. But they didn't, going with beautiful lies over ugly truth.
Tevinter and the Qunari are completely antithetical on every conceivable level, in race relations, religion, government, economics, technology, magic, everything. The chief goals of the other, whether directly or subtly, is the completely eradication of the other. Getting both to cooperate on equal footing without picking a side, even through force, would destroy much of the artistic credibility the writers have left. "Let's throw out our own lore, logic, narrative resonance, believabilty, and basic human nature just for player wish fulfillment!"
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Post by Walter Black on Feb 16, 2019 16:31:15 GMT
As far as the hero needing a personal connection to the main antagonist, I would argue that's become a cliche all it's own. As if the protagonist, through their own ordeals, could never develop any understanding or even empathy for a foe they've never met. Luke wanted to save Vader because of Daddy Issues, but how much more heroic could it have been if it was stranger who genuinely believed in redemption for all? This happened in Tad Williams' excellent fantasy series Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, where the hero Simon sympathizes with Ineluki the Storm King, even though they had no personal beef beyond opposite battle lines.
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Post by Frost on Feb 16, 2019 18:59:52 GMT
As far as the hero needing a personal connection to the main antagonist, I would argue that's become a cliche all it's own. As if the protagonist, through their own ordeals, could never develop any understanding or even empathy for a foe they've never met. Luke wanted to save Vader because of Daddy Issues, but how much more heroic could it have been if it was stranger who genuinely believed in redemption for all? For Star Wars it wouldn't have worked to have some random stranger who believed in redemption for all instead of Luke. Vader would not have stepped in to save that person. For Dragon Age 4 it might work (depending on how the story is written), but we already have a pc with a personal connection, so it would feel like a missed opportunity to me.
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