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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 17, 2019 2:30:50 GMT
To me it feels like a missed opportunity to make a whole other game waffling over the veil again. I don't want Solas as the main antagonist, so of course I don't want a returning PC.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 17, 2019 9:34:48 GMT
As far as the hero needing a personal connection to the main antagonist, I would argue that's become a cliche all it's own. As if the protagonist, through their own ordeals, could never develop any understanding or even empathy for a foe they've never met. Luke wanted to save Vader because of Daddy Issues, but how much more heroic could it have been if it was stranger who genuinely believed in redemption for all? For Star Wars it wouldn't have worked to have some random stranger who believed in redemption for all instead of Luke. Vader would not have stepped in to save that person. Both these are valid points and you also have to remember that whilst Luke was off trying to redeem his father, the rest of the team were hard at work actually trying to defeat the empire. Whilst Luke's actions resulted in redemption for Vader and the death of the emperor, that wouldn't necessarily have resulted in overall victory if the Death Star Mark 2 hadn't been destroyed as well. This is where I had issue with the options offered concerning Solas in Trespasser. Whether I feel he is capable of redemption or not, the focus should be on stopping him from going through with his plan. The desire to save him is only really relevant in what happens to him once we have done so. After all, if an Inquisitor on good terms with him wasn't able to convince him not to go through with it, why would anyone else be successful further down the line with whom he had no connection at all? Saving the world surely takes precedence over the fate of Solas no matter what an individual may believe about redemption? In some ways it would be better to have someone totally new to undertake the task simply because they won't be swayed by their emotions towards him personally when deciding on the best path. However, referring back to the Star Wars example, you can see how a dual protagonist could work with the plot. The new, main PC is the one tasked with saving the world, whilst the old, minor PC is focussed on saving Solas or killing him if that was their preferred option.
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Post by Fredward on Feb 18, 2019 5:39:39 GMT
Thinking about it there's a chance the tDWR is going to echo DAI in themes and broad 'framework' (ie content that serves as nests for smaller content: - foreground is a war between intractable ideological foes - this great threat is used as a distraction by an ancient foe to forward their own plans - this ancient foe is a magical holdover from the before times - in terms of motivation (superficially): they both belief things were better the way they used to be, are supremacists, terribly smrat/competent and egotistical - the war going on in the foreground is revealed to be a dangerous distraction, possibly requiring player intervention to resolve quickly. With DAI this was made clear when Cory stepped directly and immediately onto the board, with Solas I still think we might face a unifying threat before he reveals himself and only for him to subvert the victory over that unifying threat into his ultimate plan (I think the remaining seals still need to be broken which I think might mean we might [maybe] need to kill a double Blight intentionally started by Solas BUT he needs them dead and his enemies depleted so he wants us to kill them but struggle) So yeah. I want the qunari vs Tevinter to be a bigger war than mage v templar, facing an ideological opponent, someone who is a threat to your way of life rather than just your plain old life, is more interesting. I don't think it's a big assumption to think the old gods are core to the Blight and the Blight is what Solas is trying to address in a final kind of way, not after the latest mural, but it is a big assumption to think the way he'll get rid of them is to initiate a double Blight even if I happen to think that'll result in the most delicious drama. He might deal with them another way. Then there'll be space for the q v t war. An argument against it being a core issue is that (comic spoilers) it's already started off screen, and not just light flirting but the fall of Ventus. The issue was introduced and resolved in one comic, compare that with the overall plot about this mysterious red lyrium thing they're searching for (coughidolcough) and it seems like relative backdrop.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 20, 2024 21:04:47 GMT
This thread is pretty old pre Covid but what the heck. With all of recent reveals i don´t have the impression that the Qunari vs Tevinter also the Qunari vs Antiva conflict is that important in Veilguard story. Maybe if we are lucky similiar to how DAI handled mages and templars or the orlaisian civil way but i don´t know i was to hoping for something more because the Qunari invasion threat should have been in my humble opinion its own game.
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Post by theascendent on Jun 20, 2024 21:10:50 GMT
I hope we can finally punish the Qunari properly this time around, I am sick of them always 'denying' the crimes of their agents and their blatant attempt to reignite the war they plan on restarting any day now. Sure the Arishok was rogue, and the Vidasala was rogue, but the entire Antaam army acted against orders? Hopefully, we can finally put an end to this ridiculous cult.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 20, 2024 21:16:10 GMT
Hopefully, we can finally put an end to this ridiculous cult. So you want to have a Qunari genocide and kill all of them?
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Post by theascendent on Jun 20, 2024 21:18:42 GMT
Hopefully, we can finally put an end to this ridiculous cult. So you want to have a Qunari genocide and kill all of them? Just the religion, I have no issue with the Kossith.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Jun 20, 2024 21:24:38 GMT
Just the religion, I have no issue with the Kossith. But that´s also almost all of them. This is Godwin´s law i know but like killing all germans maybe even also the austrians for the stuff the Nazis did.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 20, 2024 21:31:50 GMT
I hope we can finally punish the Qunari properly this time around, I am sick of them always 'denying' the crimes of their agents and their blatant attempt to reignite the war they plan on restarting any day now. Sure the Arishok was rogue, and the Vidasala was rogue, but the entire Antaam army acted against orders? Hopefully, we can finally put an end to this ridiculous cult. That's not that uncommon actually. Look how many times throughout history coups have happened. They’ve made it very clear the rest of the Qun is pissed at the Antaam.
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Post by theascendent on Jun 20, 2024 21:35:51 GMT
Ugh, it was bad enough I had to tolerate and cooperate with the Orlesian Chantry and the Orlesian Empire. Hopefully, we won't have to do the same again with any Qunari in Veilguard.
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Post by Croatsky on Jun 20, 2024 21:46:44 GMT
This thread is pretty old pre Covid but what the heck. With all of recent reveals i don´t have the impression that the Qunari vs Tevinter also the Qunari vs Antiva conflict is that important in Veilguard story. Maybe if we are lucky similiar to how DAI handled mages and templars or the orlaisian civil way but i don´t know i was to hoping for something more because the Qunari invasion threat should have been in my humble opinion its own game. We really know nothing about DAVG story beyond what we'll get in prologue.
I mean, I don't recall we were advertised about Grey Wardens conflict and Orleasian civil war to deal with in DAI. We were only advertised about Mages vs Templars war.
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Post by helios969 on Jun 21, 2024 6:26:20 GMT
So you want to have a Qunari genocide and kill all of them? Just the religion, I have no issue with the Kossith. I think the "Qunari" would have issue with their race being describe as such and would likely respond with an ax to your face. It's been what, at thousand plus years since they came west and seeming continued to breed and tweak bloodlines. At what point does one race become another? At any rate I think the Qunari are going to be integral to saving Thedas at some point in this series...could be this one, could be the next. I can't help but wonder if their fanatical control of mages does have to do with some messed up stuff that left behind (fled?) and invaded Tevinter because they saw too much similarities of magic abuse and where it leads. Just some random thoughts on the matter.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jun 21, 2024 7:26:40 GMT
Maybe if we are lucky similiar to how DAI handled mages and templars or the orlaisian civil way but i don´t know i was to hoping for something more because the Qunari invasion threat should have been in my humble opinion its own game. You could have said the same about the mage/templar war. There was a whole big build up in DA2, then a novel to explain why it didn't actually happen straight after DA2 but the events of the game were a sort of catalyst. The novel ended with the mages in a highly defensible fortress up on the border with Tevinter, so you would think the action would be based up there, which could have also brought in the Mortalitassi just to the south, etc, but, no, suddenly the entire mage army tracked the length of Thedas because their leaders needed to attend a Conclave to try and settle the issue (why did the Divine not choose a more central, easily accessible location?). Then despite being in the most defensible castle in Ferelden and having the protection of the monarch of Ferelden, the leader of the mages capitulates to the first dodgy Tevinter Magister that shows up and agreed to indenture them all to Tevinter, which was effectively fixed term slavery. It was ridiculous and a rather disappointing conclusion to a great build up, purely because it originally was going to be dealt with in an expansion to DA2 called the Exalted March, so had to be transferred into the beginning of DAI. To make it worse, instead of Hawke being involved in that plot line, which was the reason Cassandra was said to be looking for them in the first place, suddenly Hawke is all mixed up with the Grey Wardens even before they knew that the Elder One was Corypheus. Why? Now the Qunari/Tevinter war could have been the subject of a game, although that presumably would have required them to come down on one side or the other to resolve it. As it is, I rather suspect that everything will return to the status quo by the time the dust settles at the end of this one. They have not totally forgotten it because it has been referenced numerous times in Tevinter Nights and in the Missing and at least one short story. I'm still waiting for an adequate explanation why the Antaam broke the Llomerryn Accords and attacked Antiva, when logic suggested they should have concentrated on Tevinter and left the south dithering over whether they ought to intervene or not. All this occurred before the latest developments so it cannot be said to be a response to the two gods being released. However, the latter will certainly mix things up a bit. The old Behind the Scenes trailer suggested our team was responding to a threat that the leaders of respective states and factions were ignoring. That made sense when the threat was just the clandestine activities of Solas and his followers but I would have thought the threat was now fairly evident with demons crawling all over Minrathous and likely elsewhere too. However, once the gods get their act together it may be that we will have to broker some sort of alliance between the Magisterium and the Antaam against the greater threat. Ditto between the Crows and the Antaam in Antiva. Let's hope we do start getting some answers about whether the Antaam has really gone rogue or not. I agree with theascendent ; that I am starting to get a bit tired of the standard excuse given by Par Vollen when their plan fails, that it had nothing to do with them. That's what the Ben'Hassrath are for, to deal with rebels and ensure the unity of the Qun. Why did Iron Bull side with the Viddasala if she had ignored orders? Why was he taking orders from her when she was in charge of magical research, not the secret police? Why was an army all set up ready to invade the south, which was then redirected against Tevinter, if the Arishok had not approved of the actions of the Viddasala? So, whatever they decide to do with the Qunari invasion, I'm hoping the explanation and outcome makes sense.
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