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Post by Frost on Mar 12, 2019 1:48:40 GMT
In DA4 I am looking forward to the Solas plot, going to Tevinter, and finding out more about the ancient elves, the Evanuris, and the time before the veil. These are interesting to me, and I do not see them as just a repeat of DAI.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 12, 2019 1:52:40 GMT
The more I think about it, the less I understand why DA2 and DAI even exist. Not that I'm complaining, DA2 is far and away my favourite of them all.
Apparently BioWare felt the need to fill in the gaps between Origins and now, but... why? Elder Scrolls doesn't do that, they just chuck you right in:
"It's 500 years later, elven supremacists rule the world now. Dragons are back. Get going."
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Post by river82 on Mar 12, 2019 3:56:17 GMT
The more I think about it, the less I understand why DA2 and DAI even exist. Not that I'm complaining, DA2 is far and away my favourite of them all. Apparently BioWare felt the need to fill in the gaps between Origins and now, but... why? Elder Scrolls doesn't do that, they just chuck you right in: "It's 500 years later, elven supremacists rule the world now. Dragons are back. Get going." And the events of DA:2 could easily have been revealed during the future game, like as your character went along they could have learnt what happened during that part of the history. I always felt like Origins was always conceived to be a standalone game and they've been hurriedly tacking things on ever since. I mean, it's pretty hard to get more epic than a battle with an old God, and they exhausted that already in the first game. It makes everything else that comes afterward seem comparatively ... trivial. If you were planning a series (which isn't usually recommended because it's getting ahead of yourselves ... but they did it with Mass Effect so I don't see why they wouldn't do it with Dragon Age) you'd leave the massive epic fight until a bit later imo? Also the choices we made in Origins aren't as important if it were only one game, but now the series is continuing it's "oh shit, we like Leliana, let's keep her around". I dunno, I just feel whenever I look at the Dragon Age series that it's a little directionless. A bit of a mess. From the story to the gameplay. Standalone the games are fine but taken together as a series, not really.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 12, 2019 4:27:00 GMT
A. DA is not ES. ( Thank God)
B. While i think it is clear that DAO was supposed to be one standalone game... That dosent actually mean anything. Afterall most tv shows today are made with no promise of getting another season and yet they still make them with ever increasing complex storylines which usually last a season but could easily carry over from season to season but also the new seasons could go off entirely into brand new storylines ( sounds familiar). Honestly i think they've done a terrific job of keeping internal consistency between the games.
C. Especially in the circumstance of Dragon Age it makes a lot of sense to reset the scale of threat. If we believe that DAO was a one off game then it makes sense to do a big threat for such a game but when they decided to seialize they decided to start with a much smaller threat. Besides, at least imo the group of DAO protags...sucked. Loghain, the Archdemon so its not a bad thing that bioware is giving us a more interesting world ending threat.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 12, 2019 6:58:05 GMT
”It’s Springtime for Solas in Elvhenan.” *snip* Shame on you for not using the original Mel Brooks and Gene Wilder version.
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Post by Ieldra on Mar 12, 2019 8:24:49 GMT
One hope Solas will fit better in the overall setting. Corypheus wasn't used properly imho. With Solas, we have in theory Tevinter getting interested in stealing his knowledge/artifacts for themselves while trying to cover up the truth about ancient/elves Tevinter. The Qunari bend to stopping him at any costs and destroying everything too magical.
And the elves/slaves might listen to his siren calls. Might be a lot of push and pull for a protag concerning alliances, and sometimes following Solas and sometimes countering him.
Also a big point is Corypheus was clueless, he didn't bring many things to the table we didn't already know. Solas is sitting on a pile of delicious lore.
I see these as largely cosmetic differences that don't change anything about what we, the players will actually be doing. But whatever. Technically spoken, all DA games except DA2 can be summed up as "stop the Big Bad". As I see it, the cosmetic differences matter. I do, however, see your point, so here's my question: what do you to be the players' task(s) in DA4, preferably?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 12, 2019 8:43:36 GMT
I see these as largely cosmetic differences that don't change anything about what we, the players will actually be doing. But whatever. Technically spoken, all DA games except DA2 can be summed up as "stop the Big Bad". As I see it, the cosmetic differences matter. I do, however, see your point, so here's my question: what do you to be the players' task(s) in DA4, preferably? Well, I don't have like, a detailed synopsis or anything. But I have a few scenarios I would have preferred to see. Firstly, as I've said earlier in this thread, if we're doing the veil again I would like the Veil to come down as early as possible, and for the Evanuris to be unleashed. I would like the story to be primarily about forming a resistance against a fairly straight-forward attempt to re-conquer Thedas. Ideally, that scenario would end with the Evanuris destroyed, but with the veil staying down, requiring the people of Thedas to adapt to a thoroughly changed world. Otherwise, I would have liked to do something else entirely. The Titans as a concept are far more interesting to me than the Evanuris and I would like to know more about them. I don't have any concrete ideas for how that would play out. Another option would be to deal with a threat from far across the sea, something entirely new and completely out of left field. I'd sure like to know what The Executors are doing that is so damn important that they convinced a bunch of Inquisition soldiers to abandon Thedas in its time of need to join them. Or the mystery of where the Qunari came from and why they left has potential. And just generally speaking, I find it interesting that the people of Thedas have no knowledge whatsoever of any other continents, despite having (as far as I know) perfectly capable sea-faring vessels. Any or all of that would be more interesting to me than preventing another assault on the Veil. Now that we already know where it came from and why, there's no longer any mystery to it, and the only interesting thing it can do, to my mind, is cease existing.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 12, 2019 9:06:50 GMT
Technically spoken, all DA games except DA2 can be summed up as "stop the Big Bad". As I see it, the cosmetic differences matter. I do, however, see your point, so here's my question: what do you to be the players' task(s) in DA4, preferably? Well, I don't have like, a detailed synopsis or anything. But I have a few scenarios I would have preferred to see. Firstly, as I've said earlier in this thread, if we're doing the veil again I would like the Veil to come down as early as possible, and for the Evanuris to be unleashed. I would like the story to be primarily about forming a resistance against a fairly straight-forward attempt to re-conquer Thedas. Ideally, that scenario would end with the Evanuris destroyed, but with the veil staying down, requiring the people of Thedas to adapt to a thoroughly changed world. Otherwise, I would have liked to do something else entirely. The Titans as a concept are far more interesting to me than the Evanuris and I would like to know more about them. I don't have any concrete ideas for how that would play out. Another option would be to deal with a threat from far across the sea, something entirely new and completely out of left field. I'd sure like to know what The Executors are doing that is so damn important that they convinced a bunch of Inquisition soldiers to abandon Thedas in its time of need to join them. Or the mystery of where the Qunari came from and why they left has potential. And just generally speaking, I find it interesting that the people of Thedas have no knowledge whatsoever of any other continents, despite having (as far as I know) perfectly capable sea-faring vessels. Any or all of that would be more interesting to me than preventing another assault on the Veil. Now that we already know where it came from and why, there's no longer any mystery to it, and the only interesting thing it can do, to my mind, is cease existing. none of that is mutually exclusive, all or none of that could happen with 'another assault on the veil'.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 12, 2019 9:22:47 GMT
Well, I don't have like, a detailed synopsis or anything. But I have a few scenarios I would have preferred to see. Firstly, as I've said earlier in this thread, if we're doing the veil again I would like the Veil to come down as early as possible, and for the Evanuris to be unleashed. I would like the story to be primarily about forming a resistance against a fairly straight-forward attempt to re-conquer Thedas. Ideally, that scenario would end with the Evanuris destroyed, but with the veil staying down, requiring the people of Thedas to adapt to a thoroughly changed world. I'd be thoroughly annoyed if they treated the Evanuris that simplistically.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 12, 2019 10:08:38 GMT
Well, I don't have like, a detailed synopsis or anything. But I have a few scenarios I would have preferred to see. Firstly, as I've said earlier in this thread, if we're doing the veil again I would like the Veil to come down as early as possible, and for the Evanuris to be unleashed. I would like the story to be primarily about forming a resistance against a fairly straight-forward attempt to re-conquer Thedas. Ideally, that scenario would end with the Evanuris destroyed, but with the veil staying down, requiring the people of Thedas to adapt to a thoroughly changed world. I'd be thoroughly annoyed if they treated the Evanuris that simplistically. I think they already have.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 12, 2019 10:09:19 GMT
Well, I don't have like, a detailed synopsis or anything. But I have a few scenarios I would have preferred to see. Firstly, as I've said earlier in this thread, if we're doing the veil again I would like the Veil to come down as early as possible, and for the Evanuris to be unleashed. I would like the story to be primarily about forming a resistance against a fairly straight-forward attempt to re-conquer Thedas. Ideally, that scenario would end with the Evanuris destroyed, but with the veil staying down, requiring the people of Thedas to adapt to a thoroughly changed world. Otherwise, I would have liked to do something else entirely. The Titans as a concept are far more interesting to me than the Evanuris and I would like to know more about them. I don't have any concrete ideas for how that would play out. Another option would be to deal with a threat from far across the sea, something entirely new and completely out of left field. I'd sure like to know what The Executors are doing that is so damn important that they convinced a bunch of Inquisition soldiers to abandon Thedas in its time of need to join them. Or the mystery of where the Qunari came from and why they left has potential. And just generally speaking, I find it interesting that the people of Thedas have no knowledge whatsoever of any other continents, despite having (as far as I know) perfectly capable sea-faring vessels. Any or all of that would be more interesting to me than preventing another assault on the Veil. Now that we already know where it came from and why, there's no longer any mystery to it, and the only interesting thing it can do, to my mind, is cease existing. none of that is mutually exclusive, all or none of that could happen with 'another assault on the veil'. Sure, but I don't want another assault on the veil because I ALREADY PLAYED THAT STORY. That's my point.
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Post by wickedcool on Mar 12, 2019 13:09:58 GMT
Dragon age 4 should feel connected
Assuming we are in in tevinter I want to feel like I’m in the empire The equivalent of the hinterlands should have a connection to the stormcoast. There should be tevinter soldiers etc. if somehow we are at war with qunari then maybe we stopped at bordering areas (bring back the dao camps and bandit encounters while traveling)
I want to be able to see a castle in the distance and travel to it. Would be nice to walk out of skyhold etc instead of a loading screen and not see the outside of skyhold again
I want dark depressing slums and grand marketplaces
Etc
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 12, 2019 13:29:48 GMT
Technically spoken, all DA games except DA2 can be summed up as "stop the Big Bad". As I see it, the cosmetic differences matter. I do, however, see your point, so here's my question: what do you to be the players' task(s) in DA4, preferably? Well, I don't have like, a detailed synopsis or anything. But I have a few scenarios I would have preferred to see. Firstly, as I've said earlier in this thread, if we're doing the veil again I would like the Veil to come down as early as possible, and for the Evanuris to be unleashed. I would like the story to be primarily about forming a resistance against a fairly straight-forward attempt to re-conquer Thedas. Ideally, that scenario would end with the Evanuris destroyed, but with the veil staying down, requiring the people of Thedas to adapt to a thoroughly changed world. Otherwise, I would have liked to do something else entirely. The Titans as a concept are far more interesting to me than the Evanuris and I would like to know more about them. I don't have any concrete ideas for how that would play out. Another option would be to deal with a threat from far across the sea, something entirely new and completely out of left field. I'd sure like to know what The Executors are doing that is so damn important that they convinced a bunch of Inquisition soldiers to abandon Thedas in its time of need to join them. Or the mystery of where the Qunari came from and why they left has potential. And just generally speaking, I find it interesting that the people of Thedas have no knowledge whatsoever of any other continents, despite having (as far as I know) perfectly capable sea-faring vessels. Any or all of that would be more interesting to me than preventing another assault on the Veil. Now that we already know where it came from and why, there's no longer any mystery to it, and the only interesting thing it can do, to my mind, is cease existing. I mean, the only things we know of the basic premise for DA4 is 'Solas wants to destroy the Veil' and potentially 'Qunari and Tevinter need to get a room'. Anything can go from there. Although I certainly wouldn't complain about DA4 starting with a broken Veil. It would certainly throw most expectations out the window, and personally, I'd be hyped to see the Evanuris in action from the get-go (mostly Falon'Din, Dirthamen and Andruil, they're the most interesting ones to me). The Titans and the Qunari may also get some focus, given the premise. As for the Executors... they'll probably be DLC content, maybe even the focal point of DA5 (if it ever comes out).
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 12, 2019 15:18:14 GMT
I'd be thoroughly annoyed if they treated the Evanuris that simplistically. I think they already have. We've only had Solas' interpretation of them. I'd hope if we ever got to meet them they wouldn't just spend their time twirling their moustaches
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 12, 2019 19:51:40 GMT
I think they already have. We've only had Solas' interpretation of them. I'd hope if we ever got to meet them they wouldn't just spend their time twirling their moustaches Agreed. And Solas is both a hardened idealist and kind of a bleeding heart, making him uniquely terrible at giving an objective view, despite his enormous intelligence and experience. Panda's kinda right though. There are a lot of ways the Evanuris can be interesting and mysterious and full of poignant dramatic potential. But I personally don't trust Bioware to put enough thought into them anymore. I'm pretty sure the metaphor of a ruthless minority enslaving their comparatively powerless brethren for personal convenience and refusing to give that privilege away will be too tempting for them to go anywhere original or particularly realistic with, especially in today's climate. Still, they've surprised me before, and there's no point not hoping for them to step up. Morally grayer for me, like in the old days. This wasn't supposed to be a game series for kids.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 12, 2019 20:06:34 GMT
We've only had Solas' interpretation of them. I'd hope if we ever got to meet them they wouldn't just spend their time twirling their moustaches Agreed. And Solas is both a hardened idealist and kind of a bleeding heart, making him uniquely terrible at giving an objective view, despite his enormous intelligence and experience. Panda's kinda right though. There are a lot of ways the Evanuris can be interesting and mysterious and full of poignant dramatic potential. But I personally don't trust Bioware to put enough thought into them anymore. I'm pretty sure the metaphor of a ruthless minority enslaving their comparatively powerless brethren for personal convenience and refusing to give that privilege away will be too tempting for them to go anywhere original or particularly realistic with, especially in today's climate. Still, they've surprised me before, and there's no point not hoping for them to step up. Morally grayer for me, like in the old days. This wasn't supposed to be a game series for kids. Trespasser wasn’t subtle in its they are evil slavers vibe, without ability to query the dubious context of the metaphor in the situation. hope they rectify that going forward but you may be right and they simply hamfist it.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Mar 12, 2019 20:12:46 GMT
All moral choices are grey. I would prefer the game not pretend otherwise.
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Post by sentinel87 on Mar 12, 2019 21:56:36 GMT
I'm assuming that it will take place in Tevinter. Given that, I hope they are able to convey that Tevinter is an anachronism in modern Thedas. I would also imagine they would have a bit of a siege mentality given the war with the Qunari and the fact that they inhabit the rump state of a once expansive empire. Overall this setting should lend itself very well to some morally grey choices and I hope Bioware goes in this direction. Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts has to be one of my favorite missions in Dragon Age. A reprise of something similar in the next game would be welcome.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 12, 2019 22:02:33 GMT
I'm assuming that it will take place in Tevinter. Given that, I hope they are able to convey that Tevinter is an anachronism in modern Thedas. I would also imagine they would have a bit of a siege mentality given the war with the Qunari and the fact that they inhabit the rump state of a once expansive empire. Overall this setting should lend itself very well to some morally grey choices and I hope Bioware goes in this direction. Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts has to be one of my favorite missions in Dragon Age. A reprise of something similar in the next game would be welcome. I hope never to see that sort of horrible quest design where the only way to play it is with meta knowledge.
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Post by The Elder King on Mar 12, 2019 22:09:19 GMT
I don’t mind having morally grey characters and choices, I actually love these. That doesn’t mean the setting is for kids is there’s a series of characters that are straight up evil, or leaving heavily towards that mindset. And the setting already has organizations or countries that some consider falling in that category, as well as antagonists.
The Evanuris’ description in Trespasser (which was already hinted in Inquisition) doesn’t leave much to the interpretation, in my opinion, even if it’s told from Solas’ perspective, it matches what is hinted in Inquisition (other then the Imperium being the human version of their rule), and it appears as a clear setup for what they will be when they’ll be shown.
Which doesn’t mean that there might not be nuances in their personalities. Let’s keep in mind Flemeth/Mythal was one, and she’s quite morally grey. They are clearly antagonistic characters, but they can have different Personalities and goals.
On a side note, it’s clear to me that Solas is going to the the antagonist/rival in the moral grey spot.
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Post by xerrai on Mar 12, 2019 22:29:18 GMT
I'm assuming that it will take place in Tevinter. Given that, I hope they are able to convey that Tevinter is an anachronism in modern Thedas. I would also imagine they would have a bit of a siege mentality given the war with the Qunari and the fact that they inhabit the rump state of a once expansive empire. Overall this setting should lend itself very well to some morally grey choices and I hope Bioware goes in this direction. Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts has to be one of my favorite missions in Dragon Age. A reprise of something similar in the next game would be welcome. I hope never to see that sort of horrible quest design where the only way to play it is with meta knowledge. Yeah, I can help but feel like they dropped the ball with that quest. Unless you read about the Masked Empire, you could easily go into that quest without knowing some of the more sordid details about Gaspard, Celene and Briala....like the fact that Celene purged the Halamshiral alienage for political reasons. That was a big thing I didn't know about. Also Vivienne contributed nothing special to the quest like Sera did, which seemed like a huge oversight. But aside from that, the quest was decent. A nice break away from hacking and slashing.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2019 22:42:49 GMT
I'm assuming that it will take place in Tevinter. Given that, I hope they are able to convey that Tevinter is an anachronism in modern Thedas. I would also imagine they would have a bit of a siege mentality given the war with the Qunari and the fact that they inhabit the rump state of a once expansive empire. Overall this setting should lend itself very well to some morally grey choices and I hope Bioware goes in this direction. Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts has to be one of my favorite missions in Dragon Age. A reprise of something similar in the next game would be welcome. I hope never to see that sort of horrible quest design where the only way to play it is with meta knowledge. Just as well that I didn't have any. Ideally, I shouldn't know things my PC doesn't know. It's just annoying to have to pretend to not know stuff. Although what happened to the Halamshiral alienage was a matter of record, right?
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wright1978
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Posts: 1,679 Likes: 2,554
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wright1978
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Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 12, 2019 23:04:16 GMT
I hope never to see that sort of horrible quest design where the only way to play it is with meta knowledge. Just as well that I didn't have any. Ideally, I shouldn't know things my PC doesn't know. It's just annoying to have to pretend to not know stuff. Although what happened to the Halamshiral alienage was a matter of record, right? I was referring to how choice is handled. my character’s opinion of who they want to support is pointless, my advisors views are pointless. Without external knowledge i’ll Blunder through and be likely forced into a choice I don’t want.
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
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February 2017
alanc9
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2019 23:33:47 GMT
By "a choice I don't want" you mean "a choice I wouldn't want if I had perfect information," right? Happens all the time; why can't it happen in games?
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,679 Likes: 2,554
inherit
1492
0
Aug 14, 2024 14:58:23 GMT
2,554
wright1978
1,679
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 12, 2019 23:57:30 GMT
By "a choice I don't want" you mean "a choice I wouldn't want if I had perfect information," right? Happens all the time; why can't it happen in games? What’s the point of advisors, if they are incapable of providing any guidance on choices available & direction?
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