wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 10, 2019 22:09:27 GMT
Can’t stand that horrible ending. forcing all hawke’s back to Kirkwall. I just ignored it. As we're not likely to be seeing Hawke again, I don't mind controverting the game for that headcanon. (Not something I usually like to do.) My Hawke has made a life elsewhere, in a city that we haven't visited in the games. Hard to ignore when it’s right there in the epilogue. why have the stupid weiishaupt stuffin the first place too. Just have hawke leave & have it up to the player where they went.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 10, 2019 22:14:55 GMT
Hard to ignore when it’s right there in the epilogue. Well that's why it's "headcanon." As I said, I don't usually controvert game canon, even when writing fanfic, but I'm fine with it in this case. It's just a personal bending of my own rules. These things seem disconnected? Hawke goes to Weisshaupt to do... whatever, and then goes back to (according to the Trespasser epilogue) Kirkwall to help Varric run things. Hawke could instead settle elsewhere after leaving Weisshaupt, which is my headcanon.
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 10, 2019 22:38:39 GMT
I just ignored it. As we're not likely to be seeing Hawke again, I don't mind controverting the game for that headcanon. (Not something I usually like to do.) My Hawke has made a life elsewhere, in a city that we haven't visited in the games. Hard to ignore when it’s right there in the epilogue. why have the stupid weiishaupt stuffin the first place too. Just have hawke leave & have it up to the player where they went. I think it may have been something to help set up a Grey Warden-related plot. The ending slides also hinted at a GW "civil war" brewing between the Weisshaupt and Orlesian branches. I'll wait for DA4 to properly judge the Hawke/Warden plot on that regard.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 11, 2019 3:08:20 GMT
They could easily kill the Inquisitor off-screen. Meh, I doubt they'll do that. Even if they never mention the Inquisitor again outside of random dialogue references, that fate for them seems unlikely. Even with Hawke, the player had the choice. In addition, Weekes has said that he wants to give closure to Solas/Lavellan. Doesn't mean it will happen, of course, but it's something he wants to do. I can already see you snarking that "death is the ultimate closure," but you know damn well that that is not what he meant in answering the question, regardless of how many fan tears he enjoys drinking. My phone fucked up and I'm not typing out the whole thing again, so here is my actual response, as succinctly as possible: Sometimes, especially in a franchise with many characters, some die without getting 'closure', and that's okay. Secondly, considering that most of the other romances, particularly the same-sex ones, already don't get the level of fan service that Morrigan and Alistair receive, I don't see why Solas romancers deserve the particular attention Weekes apparently wants to give them, just because they invested in the character more than is healthy (as evidenced earlier in this very thread, where it has apparently destroyed friendships). I romanced Zevran and Anders and I don't get shit. Zevran's cameo in DA2 is even glitched, and never got fixed. Thirdly, why the hell would anybody want to play a game that is basically just Inquisition over again, with minor cosmetic differences? Because that's what DA4 is shaping up to be. Especially if the Inquisitor were to return as the protagonist. If we're going that far, might as well just re-assemble the whole team and have no new characters at all.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 11, 2019 6:25:41 GMT
Well, characters who can be killed off tend to not get the same level of investment as characters who can't. Leliana's an exception, but that's only because everybody forgot she could die.
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Post by witchcocktor on Mar 11, 2019 8:36:30 GMT
Since Warden can die, Hawke can '' die '' I'm guessing they'll somehow kill, or at least give you the option to kill of the Inquisitor in DA4 as well.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 11, 2019 9:22:46 GMT
Since Warden can die, Hawke can '' die '' I'm guessing they'll somehow kill, or at least give you the option to kill of the Inquisitor in DA4 as well. Hopefully, i'm keeping a murder knife sharp and ready
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 11, 2019 10:32:50 GMT
pessimistpanda I supplied that tweet as sort-of-evidence that Weekes probably will not kill the Inquisitor offscreen, which is the direct statement I was replying to. In addition to that is the fact that in both DAO and DAI we were given a choice. Do with that what you will. I find your other assertions baseless. Alistair and Morrigan were clearly writer darlings. I don't believe it has anything to do with their sexuality. Leliana, who is bi, has often been stated to be such as well, and she does get specific dialogue about her friendship or romance with the Warden. In fact, Leliana and her "missing" Warden are the only Warden pairing that gets any sort of closure because it's mentioned in the epilogue if she becomes divine, which includes a female Warden. That counts as same-sex fanservice. Anders, along with the other three DA2 base game romances, were all bi, and none of them got anything*; Sebastian also did not get anything. As for Zevran, while it's unfortunate that his bug never got fixed, that is just one of the many lingering DA2 bugs that will never get fixed. There is also a game-breaking bug with Sebastian's DLC in the final patch, 1.04, that will also never get fixed, which I think is considerably more important than Zevran's minor cameo. Does it suck? It sure does, but it's one example among many of DA2's problems and also why the Keep was sorely needed. Also, I find complaints about the Anders romance rich, considering that his is the premier romance in DA2 because he is a primary plot motivator in DA2. Your post also conveniently ignores the fact that Dorian, who is gay, will likely appear in the next game and might have Inquisitor romance dialogue. I know you don't care for Dorian, or his romance, but that would be same-sex fanservice as well. It wouldn't be fanservice for you, but it counts (will count). This statement is totally unfounded. No one knows anything at all of what "DA4 is shaping up to be," particularly since the term "reboot" was used in connection with the franchise a while back, whatever the hell that means. * I'm presuming that "get shit" refers to a cameo by the person. Hawke has the opportunity to mention all LI options during the battlements conversation. As a person who romanced Fenris, I thought it was pretty neat and didn't expect anything more.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 11, 2019 10:57:27 GMT
Well, characters who can be killed off tend to not get the same level of investment as characters who can't. Leliana's an exception, but that's only because everybody forgot she could die. Alistair can be killed off, though, if he takes the blow against the archdemon. And no, no one "forgot" she could die. There have been endless threads with people whining about how they saw Leliana's decapitated head rolling away from her body, so there is no possible way she could have survived. In addition, not only could you simply not recruit him, one of the DAA epilogues for Anders had him as dead.
The writers made a choice with those characters. In fact, for a time we might not have gotten Anders at all because bringing Velanna forward was the initial idea. Because of that creator prerogative, none of us knows what they will do.
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Post by river82 on Mar 11, 2019 11:13:41 GMT
particularly since the term "reboot" was used in connection with the franchise a while back, whatever the hell that means. When Jason used the term "reboot" in connection with Destiny 1, it was to describe a rescoping and redesigning of the game. When he used the term in connection with Destiny 2 he said he thought the game was made in a relatively short period of time because the game was "rebooted" 16 months prior to release. With Dragon Age Schreier clarified that he didn't think the reboot was "THAT drastic" and that it was a "directional" reboot to add live services to the game. That implies to me that parts of the game had to be redesigned (so they can take it in a different direction) to incorporate these live service elements. The term technically means to restart, which if you're taking things back to the design level you're technically doing I guess. Which is why I think those LS elements will be more than just DLC and will be entwined into the game. But whatever, this is just speculation based on the wording of a guy, no actual evidence, but if he used the term correctly it's what his words would mean imo.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 11, 2019 11:30:57 GMT
Alistair can be killed off, though, if he takes the blow against the archdemon. And no, no one "forgot" she could die. There have been endless threads with people whining about how they saw Leliana's decapitated head rolling away from her body, so there is no possible way she could have survived. In addition, not only could you simply not recruit him, one of the DAA epilogues for Anders had him as dead.
The writers made a choice with those characters. In fact, for a time we might not have gotten Anders at all because bringing Velanna forward was the initial idea. Because of that creator prerogative, none of us knows what they will do.
It would have been better to say Leliana's "survival" was due to Guardian or some other Spirit taking on her memories and form, rather than her being a "Lyrium Ghost".
The only thing we have even remotely close to being described as a "Lyrium ghost" would be Shale, who's essence was preserved within the molten lyrium poured onto her physical body during her transformation into a Golem.
Anders death was kinda handwaved way in DA2, that everyone only assumed that the burned body they found was his because it was wearing robes. Since he already admitted to deserting after the battle, my money is on Anders having deliberately swapping clothes with the corpse in order to fake his own death.
(Even if Justice!Velanna would have drastically changed DA2, it's a really fun "What If?" scenario to think about.)
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 11, 2019 11:47:39 GMT
Sifr Not too interested in litigating the legitimacy of the writers' decisions. The point is that they made them. In the end, the writers are going to do whatever they want to do, even if we players think it's nonsensical or that it controverts our choices. Also, I get your point with the whole "lyrium ghost" thing, and realize it wasn't stated in the game that way, but Fenris's unique sustained ability is Lyrium Ghost.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 11, 2019 12:17:02 GMT
Sifr Not too interested in litigating the legitimacy of the writers' decisions. The point is that they made them. In the end, the writers are going to do whatever they want to do, even if we players think it's nonsensical or that it controverts our choices. When it comes to minor handwaves or nixing certain player choices for the sake of plot, I'm fine if it's not too intrusive and they at least try to explain the retcon. It's only when they decide to change things for no discernible reason that I take issue with it.
Stuff like Qarinus now being Ventus, because the writers kept mixing up Qarinus and Qunari... I mean, friggin' seriously?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 11, 2019 12:25:13 GMT
Stuff like Qarinus now being Ventus, because the writers kept mixing up Qarinus and Qunari... I mean, friggin' seriously? Don't get me started... ... Too late! It wasn't stated to be the writers specifically. Source.I don't know wtf "everyone" is; it sure isn't any player I've ever conversed with. Not only that, the reasoning is insulting to the playerbase and it is rendered utterly pointless given that Qarinus was sacked by the Qunari in the recent comics. They made this change for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I am never going to use that stupid name to refer to the city.
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 11, 2019 12:46:12 GMT
Stuff like Qarinus now being Ventus, because the writers kept mixing up Qarinus and Qunari... I mean, friggin' seriously? Don't get me started... ... Too late! It wasn't stated to be the writers specifically. Source.I don't know wtf "everyone" is; it sure isn't any player I've ever conversed with. Not only that, the reasoning is insulting to the playerbase and it is rendered utterly pointless given that Qarinus was sacked by the Qunari in the recent comics. They made this change for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I am never going to use that stupid name to refer to the city. Posts like these are why I hope the writers start looking at this forum. Even if they don't feel like posting. EDIT: Seriously, they could have made up a brand-new city instead of changing a well-established one. It's absolutely mind-boggling.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 11, 2019 12:47:49 GMT
I say that DA4 is "shaping up" to essentially be Inquisition again because, given what we were told in Trespasser, I don't see how Solas's plan is mechanically any different from Corypheus's. When you get down to brass tacks, everything we can glean from Trespasser and the teaser trailer tells us that we are once again dealing with a powerful ancient wizard, who plans to assault the barrier between the material and spiritual worlds.
I don't think making this particular wizard more ancient-er and replacing the Orb with Orb 2.0 (now with fingers) is different enough to be interesting.
Sure, I could be wrong. In fact I hope I am, but the marketing is leading audience expectations in a very obvious direction.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 11, 2019 15:45:02 GMT
Well, characters who can be killed off tend to not get the same level of investment as characters who can't. Leliana's an exception, but that's only because everybody forgot she could die. Alistair can be killed off, though, if he takes the blow against the archdemon. And no, no one "forgot" she could die. There have been endless threads with people whining about how they saw Leliana's decapitated head rolling away from her body, so there is no possible way she could have survived. In addition, not only could you simply not recruit him, one of the DAA epilogues for Anders had him as dead.
The writers made a choice with those characters. In fact, for a time we might not have gotten Anders at all because bringing Velanna forward was the initial idea. Because of that creator prerogative, none of us knows what they will do.
Alistair can also be executed by Anora. Leliana's decapitation was the result of a "finishing move' animation. And finishing moves, they said, were not supposed to be canon. The Warden does not literally cut her head off, but leave her bleeding and assumed to be dead or dying. My own epilogue for Anders had him leaving the Wardens, but then returning to stay after a time. So yeah, the Anders in Kirkwall certainly isn't MY Anders. He's just another apostate Grey Warden healer who likes cats...and goes by Anders...
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 11, 2019 16:25:10 GMT
When it comes to minor handwaves or nixing certain player choices for the sake of plot, I'm fine if it's not too intrusive and they at least try to explain the retcon. It's only when they decide to change things for no discernible reason that I take issue with it. I think it was pretty clear that so far as DAO and DAA were concerned, they decided to ignore pretty much everything that occurred, apart from the fact you stopped the Blight. After all, David Gaider wrote an entire comic series with Alistair alive and king of Ferelden, despite the fact that in many world states he could be dead, drunk or still a warden. At the end of DAA my Warden in a romance with Zevran was rumoured to be with him in Antiva City but he turned up alone in DA2. Wynne can also be dead at the end of DAO but only gets killed off in the canon universe in Asunder. In the majority of my epilogues to DAA Anders leaves the Wardens for a time in order to lobby the College of Enchanters but ultimately returns to the wardens for good. In DA2 he says the wardens made him give up Ser Pouncelot, but it was my Warden Commander who actually gave him the cat. Which brings me on, once again, to one of the major discrepancies in DAI and that is the non existence of Vigil's Keep and the Warden base in Ferelden. The codex giving the letter from Clarel to Teagan requesting admittance to the country and all the subsequent trashing of the wardens by him, harping back on Sophie Drydan, totally ignored the fact that there had been a monarch approved Warden involvement in secular affairs for some 10 years prior the events of DAI. He seemed to approve enough of Warden involvement in secular affairs when his brother was in favour of it and had the wardens to thank for his continued survival. If Leliana wanted to find out what was up with the wardens in Ferelden that was the obvious first port of call. Instead we are sent off to seek out some random warden in the wilds. If Hawke's warden contact was feeling the heat from other wardens from Orlais, why not appeal to the monarch or Vigil's Keep? Meanwhile, our Warden, if still alive, has apparently gone off on some wild goose chase in the far west looking for a cure for the taint. Since they are missing before Cassandra gets to Kirkwall to question Varric, by the start of DAI they have been gone a fair bit of time. Trespasser was a strange instalment plot-wise. It was meant to tie-off the Inquisitor's story but didn't. They would have done better to have left their story as it was at the end of DAI, certainly where Solas was concerned. There he had left, we couldn't trace him and so far as we were concerned he had gone back to his solitary ruin haunting ways communing with spirits. Since he had already broken off the romance before the end, our PC might have felt aggrieved he never properly explained himself but essentially he had gone. Meanwhile, the decision over what to do with the Inquisition was another of those instances where you are given the appearance of choice but actually the outcome is always the same. Whether you disband or reduce it in size, it continues to operate as evidenced by agents acting on its behalf in the comic series set after the Exalted Council. We know from the epilogue to Trespasser that the Inquisitor is still invested in the hunt for Solas, although stating they did need new people to work on their behalf who Solas didn't know (although for a person with such command of the Fade and friend of spirits, I'd have thought it wouldn't be difficult for him to find out). So I would say that regardless of how people feel about the Inquisitor, they will be involved in some way with the plot of the next game but aside from reference their romance partner, they are likely to be very generic if and when they do appear.
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Post by mousestalker on Mar 11, 2019 16:36:36 GMT
DA4 should be to Thedas what 'The Producers' was to history.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 11, 2019 16:40:23 GMT
DA4 should be to Thedas what 'The Producers' was to history. ”It’s Springtime for Solas in Elvhenan.”
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Post by Reznore on Mar 11, 2019 19:18:35 GMT
I say that DA4 is "shaping up" to essentially be Inquisition again because, given what we were told in Trespasser, I don't see how Solas's plan is mechanically any different from Corypheus's. When you get down to brass tacks, everything we can glean from Trespasser and the teaser trailer tells us that we are once again dealing with a powerful ancient wizard, who plans to assault the barrier between the material and spiritual worlds. I don't think making this particular wizard more ancient-er and replacing the Orb with Orb 2.0 (now with fingers) is different enough to be interesting. Sure, I could be wrong. In fact I hope I am, but the marketing is leading audience expectations in a very obvious direction. One hope Solas will fit better in the overall setting. Corypheus wasn't used properly imho. With Solas, we have in theory Tevinter getting interested in stealing his knowledge/artifacts for themselves while trying to cover up the truth about ancient/elves Tevinter. The Qunari bend to stopping him at any costs and destroying everything too magical.
And the elves/slaves might listen to his siren calls. Might be a lot of push and pull for a protag concerning alliances, and sometimes following Solas and sometimes countering him.
Also a big point is Corypheus was clueless, he didn't bring many things to the table we didn't already know. Solas is sitting on a pile of delicious lore.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 11, 2019 21:38:59 GMT
I say that DA4 is "shaping up" to essentially be Inquisition again because, given what we were told in Trespasser, I don't see how Solas's plan is mechanically any different from Corypheus's. When you get down to brass tacks, everything we can glean from Trespasser and the teaser trailer tells us that we are once again dealing with a powerful ancient wizard, who plans to assault the barrier between the material and spiritual worlds. I don't think making this particular wizard more ancient-er and replacing the Orb with Orb 2.0 (now with fingers) is different enough to be interesting. Sure, I could be wrong. In fact I hope I am, but the marketing is leading audience expectations in a very obvious direction. One hope Solas will fit better in the overall setting. Corypheus wasn't used properly imho. With Solas, we have in theory Tevinter getting interested in stealing his knowledge/artifacts for themselves while trying to cover up the truth about ancient/elves Tevinter. The Qunari bend to stopping him at any costs and destroying everything too magical.
And the elves/slaves might listen to his siren calls. Might be a lot of push and pull for a protag concerning alliances, and sometimes following Solas and sometimes countering him.
Also a big point is Corypheus was clueless, he didn't bring many things to the table we didn't already know. Solas is sitting on a pile of delicious lore.
I see these as largely cosmetic differences that don't change anything about what we, the players will actually be doing. But whatever.
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Post by Gwydden on Mar 11, 2019 22:46:55 GMT
I see these as largely cosmetic differences that don't change anything about what we, the players will actually be doing. But whatever. Pretty much. Whenever I've raised that point about stopping Solas being basically the same plot as stopping Corypheus, the answer I usually get is that Solas will make for a much better antagonist (talk about a low bar). But what was the point of Corypheus, then? Why have an overlong, crappy version of a plot before the better one? Why not just scratch the former? Supposedly, DA:I only covered about half of the story they intended. I find that mystifying, since in the overall picture Corypheus strikes me as a pointless diversion and the fight against him already feels like it drags far longer than is justified. Honestly, I suspect this is yet another way in which Inquisition's "open world" obsession worked against it. I liked the concept of the DA series as these standalone stories, each with a different cast. But that's not at all what Bioware's been doing. DA2 was just an extended prologue to Inquisition, except they awkwardly scrapped the Hawke as recurrent series protagonist idea. Now it turns out Inquisition was just an extended prologue for DA4. I wish they'd just stop with the prologues and get to the story they want to tell once and for all. But again, I'm guessing the writers are limited by directives from high on up. DA2 had to be made in a year, so its scope had to be reduced. DA:I had to be a huge semi-open world game with tons of MMO style filler quests, so the story's scope also had to be reduced. Hopefully they'll decide that the thing DA4 has to be is good for a change.
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inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,073
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 12, 2019 1:17:42 GMT
I see these as largely cosmetic differences that don't change anything about what we, the players will actually be doing. But whatever. Pretty much. Whenever I've raised that point about stopping Solas being basically the same plot as stopping Corypheus, the answer I usually get is that Solas will make for a much better antagonist (talk about a low bar). But what was the point of Corypheus, then? Why have an overlong, crappy version of a plot before the better one? Why not just scratch the former? Supposedly, DA:I only covered about half of the story they intended. I find that mystifying, since in the overall picture Corypheus strikes me as a pointless diversion and the fight against him already feels like it drags far longer than is justified. Honestly, I suspect this is yet another way in which Inquisition's "open world" obsession worked against it. I liked the concept of the DA series as these standalone stories, each with a different cast. But that's not at all what Bioware's been doing. DA2 was just an extended prologue to Inquisition, except they awkwardly scrapped the Hawke as recurrent series protagonist idea. Now it turns out Inquisition was just an extended prologue for DA4. I wish they'd just stop with the prologues and get to the story they want to tell once and for all. But again, I'm guessing the writers are limited by directives from high on up. DA2 had to be made in a year, so its scope had to be reduced. DA:I had to be a huge semi-open world game with tons of MMO style filler quests, so the story's scope also had to be reduced. Hopefully they'll decide that the thing DA4 has to be is good for a change. I'm starting to suspect we might be soulmates.
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inherit
The Smiling Knight
538
0
Sept 29, 2024 1:07:02 GMT
23,400
smilesja
14,302
August 2016
smilesja
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Post by smilesja on Mar 12, 2019 1:42:02 GMT
DA4 should be to Thedas what 'The Producers' was to history. ”It’s Springtime for Solas in Elvhenan.”
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