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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2019 19:38:42 GMT
Please no. I do not want the travesty that was inflicted on Hawke now inflicted on the Inquisitor. BioWare always ruins protagonists when turned into NPCs. I'm not a fan of being able to kill off Hawke in the Fade, nor how they got them out of the story, but they got a larger role than I expected.
I know some people want the Inquisitor back, but if we couldn't take the Warden to Kirkwall or have Hawke as the Inquisitor, then why now forego a new protagonist in lieu of another game with the Inquisitor?
I loved playing as the Inquisitor, but another game with them as the protagonist would be dull, given how Trespasser concluded their story (for the most part). They can still appear, but let someone else have the spotlight.
I’m referring to how BioWare ruined them by making them completely OOC. They did it to Revan, they did it to Hawke, I do not want them to do it to Inquisitor. Because unlike the Warden or Hawke, the main quest of the Inquisitor is not completed and they became wrapped up in the new plot in a way the others weren’t. And sorry but thinking Trespasser wrapped up their story is laughable. It did the exact opposite. If BioWare truly think they did a good job wrapping things up with that DLC, they are every bit the overrated hacks that the haters say they are.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 10, 2019 19:46:02 GMT
I honestly think it's an acceptable compromise, as Dragon Age games have always shifted from protagonist to protagonist, each game telling one protagonist's story. I expect DA4 to be no different in introducing a new character in the world. However, given the massive relevance Solas is set to have, people will want to go back to controlling the Inquisitor. It would also establish a funny parallel with W3 in that the the "chosen one" (Ciri/Inquisitor) is only controllable at specific moments in the story while the "secondary" character (Geralt/New Protag) is the one we follow for the bulk of the story. The new protagonist needs room to breath. ciri equivalency is about the maximum imo.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 10, 2019 19:54:30 GMT
I'm not a fan of being able to kill off Hawke in the Fade, nor how they got them out of the story, but they got a larger role than I expected.
I know some people want the Inquisitor back, but if we couldn't take the Warden to Kirkwall or have Hawke as the Inquisitor, then why now forego a new protagonist in lieu of another game with the Inquisitor?
I loved playing as the Inquisitor, but another game with them as the protagonist would be dull, given how Trespasser concluded their story (for the most part). They can still appear, but let someone else have the spotlight.
I’m referring to how BioWare ruined them by making them completely OOC. They did it to Revan, they did it to Hawke, I do not want them to do it to Inquisitor. Because unlike the Warden or Hawke, the main quest of the Inquisitor is not completed and they became wrapped up in the new plot in a way the others weren’t. And sorry but thinking Trespasser wrapped up their story is laughable. It did the exact opposite. If BioWare truly think they did a good job wrapping things up with that DLC, they are every bit the overrated hacks that the haters say they are. people can have differing view points in good faith, its not laughable. For instance i felt that Hawkes story wasn't wrapped up. And while i didn't mind the inquisitor i still wonder what the game might've been like with hawke at the helm.
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 10, 2019 19:59:04 GMT
I’m referring to how BioWare ruined them by making them completely OOC. They did it to Revan, they did it to Hawke, I do not want them to do it to Inquisitor. Because unlike the Warden or Hawke, the main quest of the Inquisitor is not completed and they became wrapped up in the new plot in a way the others weren’t. And sorry but thinking Trespasser wrapped up their story is laughable. It did the exact opposite. If BioWare truly think they did a good job wrapping things up with that DLC, they are every bit the overrated hacks that the haters say they are. people can have differing view points in good faith, its not laughable. For instance i felt that Hawkes story wasn't wrapped up. And while i didn't mind the inquisitor i still wonder what the game might've been like with hawke at the helm.Well for starters, there wouldn't be a choice at the end of Here Lies The Abyss...
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Post by Iakus on Mar 10, 2019 20:22:02 GMT
I'm not a fan of being able to kill off Hawke in the Fade, nor how they got them out of the story, but they got a larger role than I expected.
I know some people want the Inquisitor back, but if we couldn't take the Warden to Kirkwall or have Hawke as the Inquisitor, then why now forego a new protagonist in lieu of another game with the Inquisitor?
I loved playing as the Inquisitor, but another game with them as the protagonist would be dull, given how Trespasser concluded their story (for the most part). They can still appear, but let someone else have the spotlight.
I’m referring to how BioWare ruined them by making them completely OOC. They did it to Revan, they did it to Hawke, I do not want them to do it to Inquisitor. Because unlike the Warden or Hawke, the main quest of the Inquisitor is not completed and they became wrapped up in the new plot in a way the others weren’t. And sorry but thinking Trespasser wrapped up their story is laughable. It did the exact opposite. If BioWare truly think they did a good job wrapping things up with that DLC, they are every bit the overrated hacks that the haters say they are. Three full runs with DAI. Three Inquisitors who's fighting days are OVER. I'd go so far as to say the Inquisitor's Story is more complete than the Hero of Ferelden. My Inquisitors are retired and are now pulling strings from the shadows while someone else takes point. And if they appear in DA4, I will be DREADING what happens to them, because if Hawke and Shepard have taught me anything, it's that they will folded, spindled and mutilated before my eyes because "deep".
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Post by Sifr on Mar 10, 2019 20:26:53 GMT
I’m referring to how BioWare ruined them by making them completely OOC. You mean Hawke's "sudden and inexplicable" hatred of blood magic?
Can't imagine how that happened... not after their mother was murdered by a blood mage, their father was forced to become a blood mage against his will and they had a countless number of insane blood mages routinely try to murder them throughout DA2? Besides, even if they were a blood mage in DA2, that doesn't mean they can't have given it up since. Can we even call Hawke out-of-character in DAI anyway, since that's the first time we're really meeting them? If you think about it, we only ever played as Varric's version of Hawke in DA2 and we know that he's an unreliable narrator who embellished certain details/events. It doesn't invalidate our choices or character in DA2, but it should be kept in mind when comparing Hawke's depiction in each game.
Because unlike the Warden or Hawke, the main quest of the Inquisitor is not completed and they became wrapped up in the new plot in a way the others weren’t. And sorry but thinking Trespasser wrapped up their story is laughable. It did the exact opposite. If BioWare truly think they did a good job wrapping things up with that DLC, they are every bit the overrated hacks that the haters say they are. At the end of Trespasser, the Inquisition was either been disbanded or folded into the Chantry.
The Inquisitor's story is pretty much done, even if their fight against Solas may not yet ended. It's no different than Warden's story being done at the end of Origins or Witch Hunt, despite the Darkspawn still existing as an ever-present threat to Thedas. Or how Hawke's story ended in DA2, even though most of the events of that story spilled over into DAI, yet they didn't return as the protagonist.
(Although with that last example, I wonder if that was always the case and Hawke wasn't originally meant to be the Inquisitor?)
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 10, 2019 20:34:42 GMT
I’m referring to how BioWare ruined them by making them completely OOC. You mean Hawke's "sudden and inexplicable" hatred of blood magic?
Can't imagine how that happened... not after their mother was murdered by a blood mage, their father was forced to become a blood mage against his will and they had a countless number of insane blood mages routinely try to murder them throughout DA2? Besides, even if they were a blood mage in DA2, that doesn't mean they can't have given it up since. Can we even call Hawke out-of-character in DAI anyway, since that's the first time we're really meeting them? If you think about it, we only ever played as Varric's version of Hawke in DA2 and we know that he's an unreliable narrator who embellished certain details/events. It doesn't invalidate our choices or character in DA2, but it should be kept in mind when comparing Hawke's depiction in each game.
Now that I think of it, it makes some sort of sense. With all the bullshit brought on by blood magic, anyone but the most coldly pragmatic soul would be strongly averse to any form of blood magic. I just hope my Hawke's relationship with Merrill didn't take a severe hit because of this... Because unlike the Warden or Hawke, the main quest of the Inquisitor is not completed and they became wrapped up in the new plot in a way the others weren’t. And sorry but thinking Trespasser wrapped up their story is laughable. It did the exact opposite. If BioWare truly think they did a good job wrapping things up with that DLC, they are every bit the overrated hacks that the haters say they are. At the end of Trespasser, the Inquisition was either been disbanded or folded into the Chantry.
The Inquisitor's story is pretty much done, even if their fight against Solas may not yet ended. It's no different than Warden's story being done at the end of Origins or Witch Hunt, despite the Darkspawn still existing as an ever-present threat to Thedas. Or how Hawke's story ended in DA2, even though most of the events of that story spilled over into DAI, yet they didn't return as the protagonist. (Although with that last example, I wonder if that was always the case and Hawke wasn't originally meant to be the Inquisitor?)
I don't have a source with me, but I heard a rumor that DA:I was supposed to feature Hawke as the protagonist again. Apparently BioWare initially wanted to turn him into the Shepard of the Dragon Age franchise.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 10, 2019 20:39:32 GMT
Can we even call Hawke out-of-character in DAI anyway, since that's the first time we're really meeting them? If you think about it, we only ever played as Varric's version of Hawke in DA2 and we know that he's an unreliable narrator who embellished certain details/events. I hate this reasoning so very much. Yes, it damn well DOES invalidate our choices and character. To say that everything we experienced is through Varric's retelling as unreliable narrator literately means that everything that we did cannot be taken at face value. Because fans trot out this reasoning when it's convenient to their argument about whatever thing about Hawke has made me absolutely LOATHE the "unreliable narrator" device. I hope they never use it again.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2019 20:40:25 GMT
I’m referring to how BioWare ruined them by making them completely OOC. You mean Hawke's "sudden and inexplicable" hatred of blood magic?
Can't imagine how that happened... not after their mother was murdered by a blood mage, their father was forced to become a blood mage against his will and they had a countless number of insane blood mages routinely try to murder them throughout DA2? Besides, even if they were a blood mage in DA2, that doesn't mean they can't have given it up since. Can we even call Hawke out-of-character in DAI anyway, since that's the first time we're really meeting them? If you think about it, we only ever played as Varric's version of Hawke in DA2 and we know that he's an unreliable narrator who embellished certain details/events. It doesn't invalidate our choices or character in DA2, but it should be kept in mind when comparing Hawke's depiction in each game.
Because unlike the Warden or Hawke, the main quest of the Inquisitor is not completed and they became wrapped up in the new plot in a way the others weren’t. And sorry but thinking Trespasser wrapped up their story is laughable. It did the exact opposite. If BioWare truly think they did a good job wrapping things up with that DLC, they are every bit the overrated hacks that the haters say they are. At the end of Trespasser, the Inquisition was either been disbanded or folded into the Chantry.
The Inquisitor's story is pretty much done, even if their fight against Solas may not yet ended. It's no different than Warden's story being done at the end of Origins or Witch Hunt, despite the Darkspawn still existing as an ever-present threat to Thedas. Or how Hawke's story ended in DA2, even though most of the events of that story spilled over into DAI, yet they didn't return as the protagonist.
(Although with that last example, I wonder if that was always the case and Hawke wasn't originally meant to be the Inquisitor?)
Among other things, yes. And yes, we can call them out of character because guess what: they were in a relationship with a blood mage and showed no disagreement with her on the subject. Good to know that apparently that relationship is super toxic what with comments like all blood mages are monsters and other garage like that. At the end of Trespaaser, a shadow Inquisition was formed to stop Solas for one reason or another and continues to operate during the comics. If they wanted the Inquisitor's story finished, they should have left it at the vanilla ending rather than the stupid Trespasser DLC that may very wel manage to ruin two games at once.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2019 20:42:03 GMT
You mean Hawke's "sudden and inexplicable" hatred of blood magic?
Can't imagine how that happened... not after their mother was murdered by a blood mage, their father was forced to become a blood mage against his will and they had a countless number of insane blood mages routinely try to murder them throughout DA2? Besides, even if they were a blood mage in DA2, that doesn't mean they can't have given it up since. Can we even call Hawke out-of-character in DAI anyway, since that's the first time we're really meeting them? If you think about it, we only ever played as Varric's version of Hawke in DA2 and we know that he's an unreliable narrator who embellished certain details/events. It doesn't invalidate our choices or character in DA2, but it should be kept in mind when comparing Hawke's depiction in each game.
Now that I think of it, it makes some sort of sense. With all the bullshit brought on by blood magic, anyone but the most coldly pragmatic soul would be strongly averse to any form of blood magic. I just hope my Hawke's relationship with Merrill didn't take a severe hit because of this... Hawke thinks she is scum since they hurl their hate-filled comments about blood magic at all blood mages.
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 10, 2019 21:01:00 GMT
Now that I think of it, it makes some sort of sense. With all the bullshit brought on by blood magic, anyone but the most coldly pragmatic soul would be strongly averse to any form of blood magic. I just hope my Hawke's relationship with Merrill didn't take a severe hit because of this... Hawke thinks she is scum since they hurl their hate-filled comments about blood magic at all blood mages. Yo, no need to hurt me this way, y'know.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2019 21:04:48 GMT
Hawke thinks she is scum since they hurl their hate-filled comments about blood magic at all blood mages. Yo, no need to hurt me this way, y'know. I know how you feel. Merrill is my DA2 LI too, and second favorite in Bioware games overall.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 10, 2019 21:13:09 GMT
Hawkes comments werent directed at blood mages in general. Even if they were they wouldnt effect any of their relationships. It is possible to like someone and not approve of what they are doing. See my opinions on Merril, Anders, Solas.
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Post by Iakus on Mar 10, 2019 21:14:13 GMT
I don't have a source with me, but I heard a rumor that DA:I was supposed to feature Hawke as the protagonist again. Apparently BioWare initially wanted to turn him into the Shepard of the Dragon Age franchise. I think the plan has always been to have a different protagonist each game. However, I did hear that the canceled "Exalted March" expansion was going to have Cassandra finally track down Hawke in Starkhaven, where presumably she'd make the offer to join the Inquisition. My guess is Hawke would turn it down no matter what. Just as well it got cancelled, since I also heard Varric was supposed to die in it...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2019 21:15:24 GMT
I don't have a source with me, but I heard a rumor that DA:I was supposed to feature Hawke as the protagonist again. Apparently BioWare initially wanted to turn him into the Shepard of the Dragon Age franchise. I think the plan has always been to have a different protagonist each game. However, I did hear that the canceled "Exalted March" expansion was going to have Cassandra finally track down Hawke in Starkhaven, where presumably she'd make the offer to join the Inquisition. My guess is Hawke would turn it down no matter what. Just as well it got cancelled, since I also heard Varric was supposed to die in it... Too bad it didn't come out then. Would have been spared him in DAI.
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 10, 2019 21:28:14 GMT
I don't have a source with me, but I heard a rumor that DA:I was supposed to feature Hawke as the protagonist again. Apparently BioWare initially wanted to turn him into the Shepard of the Dragon Age franchise. I think the plan has always been to have a different protagonist each game. However, I did hear that the canceled "Exalted March" expansion was going to have Cassandra finally track down Hawke in Starkhaven, where presumably she'd make the offer to join the Inquisition. My guess is Hawke would turn it down no matter what. Just as well it got cancelled, since I also heard Varric was supposed to die in it... Wow, BioWare seemed really invested in making Hawke's life a mountain of shit of epic proportions. Good thing Trespasser can give him and Kirkwall a somewhat happy ending.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 10, 2019 21:40:24 GMT
Now that I think of it, it makes some sort of sense. With all the bullshit brought on by blood magic, anyone but the most coldly pragmatic soul would be strongly averse to any form of blood magic. I just hope my Hawke's relationship with Merrill didn't take a severe hit because of this... Nah, the Rivalmance with Merrill proves that this is the better outcome. Hawke doesn't approve of her use of blood magic and doesn't enable her when it comes to her self-destructive obsession with the Eluvian, ultimately convincing her to destroy the mirror and cease using blood magic, upon realising all the pain they've both caused her. Can we even call Hawke out-of-character in DAI anyway, since that's the first time we're really meeting them? If you think about it, we only ever played as Varric's version of Hawke in DA2 and we know that he's an unreliable narrator who embellished certain details/events. I hate this reasoning so very much. Yes, it damn well DOES invalidate our choices and character. To say that everything we experienced is through Varric's retelling as unreliable narrator literately means that everything that we did cannot be taken at face value. Because fans trot out this reasoning when it's convenient to their argument about whatever thing about Hawke has made me absolutely LOATHE the "unreliable narrator" device. I hope they never use it again. True, I'm not a fan of the idea that everything we did in DA2 has to be questioned as whether it really happened the way Varric said it did, but it's something that we can't ignore because of the nature of the framing device. I would say that I hold DA2 to be mostly true, but there's enough wiggle-room there that some things might have been skewed by Varric's own biases and perspective.
A good question is whether whether Varric's anger towards Anders' betrayal may have influenced his portrayal in the story? He seems like a totally different character to the (pre-Justice) version we saw in Awakening and Hawke even states in DAI that Anders is not like he's described in the tales, if they were in a romance with him. Varric's tale paints them as being good friends before the Chantry's destruction, a stark contrast to the bitterness he shows towards Anders in both DA2's framing device and DAI.
The same question can be raised about Orsino's portrayal, as Varric admits he has no idea how or why he turned himself into a monster if you ask him in DAI? Varric's lack of knowledge regarding magic or Orsino's character meant that this just sorta happened in his story and had to be glossed over, because he lacked the necessary information to properly explain it.
I agree that Bioware should avoid this unreliable narrator device again, if only to avoid these kinds of issues.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 10, 2019 21:48:49 GMT
The same question can be raised about Orsino's portrayal, as Varric admits he has no idea how or why he turned himself into a monster if you ask him in DAI? Varric's lack of knowledge regarding magic or Orsino's character meant that this just sorta happened in his story and had to be glossed over, because he lacked the necessary information to properly explain it. Hahaha... well I use a mod to avoid that ridiculousness, so I won't worry about it. "Hm... you think we should have an extra boss fight?" "I dunno... where would we put it?" "I know! Let's make Orsino transform into an abomination for some OOC and totally inexplicable reason! We can use that model from The Golems of Amgarrak!"
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2019 21:51:33 GMT
Now that I think of it, it makes some sort of sense. With all the bullshit brought on by blood magic, anyone but the most coldly pragmatic soul would be strongly averse to any form of blood magic. I just hope my Hawke's relationship with Merrill didn't take a severe hit because of this... Nah, the Rivalmance with Merrill proves that this is the better outcome. Hawke doesn't approve of her use of blood magic and doesn't enable her when it comes to her self-destructive obsession with the Eluvian, ultimately convincing her to destroy the mirror and cease using blood magic, upon realising all the pain they've both caused her. And what of the people who didn’t rival her when doing the romance?
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Post by Sifr on Mar 10, 2019 21:55:19 GMT
And what of the people who didn’t rival her when doing the romance? Then they're doing it wrong.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2019 21:57:06 GMT
And what of the people who didn’t rival her when doing the romance? Then they're doing it wrong. So screw those players, we’ll have Hawke act how we think they were supposed to? There’s a term for BioWare doing that: making them out of character.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 10, 2019 21:59:05 GMT
Now that I think of it, it makes some sort of sense. With all the bullshit brought on by blood magic, anyone but the most coldly pragmatic soul would be strongly averse to any form of blood magic. To me it's more about how whiny and annoying Hawke was about it. And then later getting into an argument in the Fade with Warden Dude. Wtf people, we've got bigger problems at the moment than playing "pass the blame." My Hawkes never approved of blood magic in any fashion; I still didn't like the characterization.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 10, 2019 22:02:06 GMT
I think the plan has always been to have a different protagonist each game. However, I did hear that the canceled "Exalted March" expansion was going to have Cassandra finally track down Hawke in Starkhaven, where presumably she'd make the offer to join the Inquisition. My guess is Hawke would turn it down no matter what. Just as well it got cancelled, since I also heard Varric was supposed to die in it... Wow, BioWare seemed really invested in making Hawke's life a mountain of shit of epic proportions. Good thing Trespasser can give him and Kirkwall a somewhat happy ending. Can’t stand that horrible ending. forcing all hawke’s back to Kirkwall.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 10, 2019 22:04:43 GMT
Can’t stand that horrible ending. forcing all hawke’s back to Kirkwall. I just ignored it. As we're not likely to be seeing Hawke again, I don't mind controverting the game for that headcanon. (Not something I usually like to do.) My Hawke has made a life elsewhere, in a city that we haven't visited in the games.
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Post by river82 on Mar 10, 2019 22:07:08 GMT
Now that I think of it, it makes some sort of sense. With all the bullshit brought on by blood magic, anyone but the most coldly pragmatic soul would be strongly averse to any form of blood magic. I just hope my Hawke's relationship with Merrill didn't take a severe hit because of this... Nah, the Rivalmance with Merrill proves that this is the better outcome. Hawke doesn't approve of her use of blood magic and doesn't enable her when it comes to her self-destructive obsession with the Eluvian, ultimately convincing her to destroy the mirror and cease using blood magic, upon realising all the pain they've both caused her. BORING!
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