Noxluxe
N4
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 9, 2019 11:08:30 GMT
"Keep it steady! Damn it, just leave it here and we'll come back later, we'll look like unsophisticated pigs if we aren't back before the Archon finishes this sip of wine anyway. We can try again next time he raises his goblet." Now I want a sidequest where we steal priceless art from the Archon's palace. No political motives.
Mhm, it'd be nice if in the next game we aren't CEOs or representatives of huge organizations with international reputations and goals that we need to think about. Been a while since we could just take a job because it sounded fun and profitable, no guilty feelings. And again, DA2 didn't fully take advantage of us having that freedom.
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 9, 2019 12:41:45 GMT
Great idea, we could have an improved version of the WEWH quest. "You found the locked door? Good, now help me with the wheelbarrow." "Keep it steady! Damn it, just leave it here and we'll come back later, we'll look like unsophisticated pigs if we aren't back before the Archon finishes this sip of wine anyway. We can try again next time he raises his goblet." I'd prefer to be the assassin there paid to poison the Archon's wine.
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Post by Ieldra on Apr 9, 2019 12:56:10 GMT
Now I want a sidequest where we steal priceless art from the Archon's palace. No political motives.
Mhm, it'd be nice if in the next game we aren't CEOs or representatives of huge organizations with international reputations and goals that we need to think about. Been a while since we could just take a job because it sounded fun and profitable, no guilty feelings. And again, DA2 didn't fully take advantage of us having that freedom. Well....the eternal conundrum of the epic hero. Either you can influence large events, then you need a role that makes it possible to do so, or you don't have such a role, then you also shouldn't be involved in making decisions on a large scale.
Take DAO's Warden, for instance. You may start as an invisible nobody, but you certainly don't stay that way, and in the end you're so visible that you'll never be able to just "take a job because it sounded fun and profitable" again. Which is why in DAI, I appreciated that we had a large role. It made our involvement in the political big picture so much more convincing. And I like being involved in the political big picture.
Having said that, that problem is solveable through alternate identities, which is another highly enjoyable element I'd love to see in a CRPG, not the least because AFAIK it's not been done before, but can you see Bioware giving us something so - for their standards - terribly subtle? It would have to be *somewhat* convincing after all...
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Noxluxe
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Post by Noxluxe on Apr 9, 2019 12:56:19 GMT
"Keep it steady! Damn it, just leave it here and we'll come back later, we'll look like unsophisticated pigs if we aren't back before the Archon finishes this sip of wine anyway. We can try again next time he raises his goblet." I'd prefer to be the assassin there paid to poison the Archon's wine. Perfect premise for a classic open-ended quest. A collector wants something in the Archon's inner chambers, and after you take the job you become aware of a bounty on his life posted by a rebellious or foreign group. You decide how far to take it, and collect appropriate payment(s). ..And later receive either another job offer or an enraged complaint about certain artifacts the possession of which suddenly became really incriminating which wasn't part of the deal. Well....the eternal conundrum of the epic hero. Either you can influence large events, then you need a role that makes it possible to do so, or you don't have such a role, then you also shouldn't be involved in making decisions on a large scale.
Take DAO's Warden, for instance. You may start as an invisible nobody, but you certainly don't stay that way, and in the end you're so visible that you'll never be able to just "take a job because it sounded fun and profitable" again. Having said that, that problem is solveable through alternate identities, which is another highly enjoyable element I'd love to see in a CRPG, not the least because AFAIK it's not been done before, but can you see Bioware giving us something so - for their standards - terribly subtle? It would have to be *somewhat* convincing after all...
True. Origins kinda took that approach for Denerim in the early three quarters of the story by making you a wanted man/woman and just assuming that you kept a low profile and gave false names whenever they would come up, and only turning you into a nationally recognized figure by the very end of the game. I got a kick out of playing on that last time, wearing face-concealing helmets in public and leaving the most recognizable companions in camp. And it did make those quests wherein you're recognized and someone tries to arrest or kill you on the spot feel that bit more meaningful. That, and the Warden has the option of being forcefully conscripted into the order, somewhat leaving the option of not at all identifying as such open. The modern dialogue wheel doesn't allow for that unless clandestine activities and attempted coverups are already an assumed part of the story. Ugh. What I wouldn't give for us to escape that stupid wheel and the stupid voice-acted player character hamstringing our roleplaying options.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 9, 2019 13:41:03 GMT
I'd prefer to be the assassin there paid to poison the Archon's wine. Only for us to discover later that we'd played right into the Archon's hands.
Turns out the guy who gave us the poison was acting directly under orders from the Archon. Not only did he already possess the antidote, but his plan all along was to use this fake assassination attempt as an excuse to purge his political enemies in the Magisterium, claiming they were the ones who ordered the hit.
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Post by Gileadan on Apr 9, 2019 14:43:07 GMT
I'd prefer to be the assassin there paid to poison the Archon's wine. Only for us to discover later that we'd played right into the Archon's hands.
Turns out the guy who gave us the poison was acting directly under orders from the Archon. Not only did he already possess the antidote, but his plan all along was to use this fake assassination attempt as an excuse to purge his political enemies in the Magisterium, claiming they were the ones who ordered the hit. As long as no one wants a refund...
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Post by SirSourpuss on Apr 9, 2019 15:46:24 GMT
As someone who is lost after DA2 and DA:I failed to keep my interest, or even considered as a new player, how would you go about (re)introducing me back to Dragon Age? I mean, I can't see myself getting interested in it, in some way, even as the first big fantasy RPG of the next console gen, which was Inquisition's biggest hook, at this point. What would you have Bioware do?
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Inactive Moderator
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Post by mousestalker on Apr 9, 2019 18:18:14 GMT
Only for us to discover later that we'd played right into the Archon's hands.
Turns out the guy who gave us the poison was acting directly under orders from the Archon. Not only did he already possess the antidote, but his plan all along was to use this fake assassination attempt as an excuse to purge his political enemies in the Magisterium, claiming they were the ones who ordered the hit. As long as no one wants a refund... If this could be extended out in a Xanatos gambit, that would totally rock. A good twisty subplot where the semi big bad wins regardless of what was done, but logically and by different means depending upon the PC's choices and actions.
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Post by Sifr on Apr 10, 2019 13:13:15 GMT
If this could be extended out in a Xanatos gambit, that would totally rock. A good twisty subplot where the semi big bad wins regardless of what was done, but logically and by different means depending upon the PC's choices and actions. This is how I'd ideally want to see them present Solas, the Archon, Black Divine and Qunari Triumvirate. You'd expect each of them to be experienced chessmasters, capable of turning our actions (even those against them) in their favour somehow.
Solas definitely showed himself to be highly adept at this in Trespasser. Not only did he expertly play the Inquisition and Qunari against each other like a fiddle, but he set things up enough so that the Inquisitor would eventually find their way to him, allowing him to prevent the Anchor from killing them.
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emissaryoflies
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Post by emissaryoflies on May 21, 2019 15:57:10 GMT
Either as dark as the first two games or even darker. And I'd rather not walk all over the main antagonist and perhaps even lose some battles this time around.
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helios969
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Post by helios969 on May 22, 2019 12:11:54 GMT
As someone who is lost after DA2 and DA:I failed to keep my interest, or even considered as a new player, how would you go about (re)introducing me back to Dragon Age? I mean, I can't see myself getting interested in it, in some way, even as the first big fantasy RPG of the next console gen, which was Inquisition's biggest hook, at this point. What would you have Bioware do? In past games that's never really been particularly needed since each iteration has had a different protagonist. Without more context to what DA4's protagonist connection to past events might be it's hard to say. Maybe Bioware shouldn't start the game with a catastrophic explosion killing thousands of people that you couldn't care less about from a player character you haven't even created. DAI would have greatly benefited from a playable prologue section that would have allowed you to interact with some of those people while reintroducing the player to the world of Thedas and key past events so the devastation would have meant something. Still I would recommend replaying DAI (plus Trespasser) before any venture into DA4 as a refresher. It's a fun game if you focus on the main story, ignore 90% of the open world while paying attention to only 3-4 companions in a given playthrough.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 22, 2019 12:33:34 GMT
Still I would recommend replaying DAI (plus Trespasser) Oof ... man, I would rather not go through with that. I didn't have much fun the first time. I gave up after about 30 hours. I was forcing myself to play it, last time.
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Post by helios969 on May 22, 2019 12:54:41 GMT
Still I would recommend replaying DAI (plus Trespasser) Oof ... man, I would rather not go through with that. I didn't have much fun the first time. I gave up after about 30 hours. I was forcing myself to play it, last time. Were you taking the OCD completionist route? My playthroughs last between 30-40 hours with the DLCs...of course I don't even open two thirds the areas unless I just happen to be in the mood for mindless farming/killing.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 22, 2019 12:56:54 GMT
Were you taking the OCD completionist route? OCD is my middle name.
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Post by helios969 on May 22, 2019 18:30:05 GMT
Were you taking the OCD completionist route? OCD is my middle name. Ah, condolences then. I had a touch of it myself but DAI cured me.
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Post by Ieldra on May 23, 2019 16:51:51 GMT
Were you taking the OCD completionist route? OCD is my middle name. I sympathize. Same here. Usually it's fun to complete everything, but at times it's more of a chore. I like exploring, but DAI has a lot of collection quests....only MEA is worse.
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Post by colfoley on May 23, 2019 18:42:18 GMT
I sympathize. Same here. Usually it's fun to complete everything, but at times it's more of a chore. I like exploring, but DAI has a lot of collection quests....only MEA is worse.
how is MEA worse? I can't remember doing a single one.
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Post by SwobyJ on Jun 18, 2019 18:33:47 GMT
I doubt they'll do it, but I imagine a DA4 in Tevinter should be the darkest or second (to an apocalyptic/post-apocalyptic plot or setting) darkest Dragon Age possible. It doesn't make much sense to me otherwise. Yes, texture and humanity can be added to the region, its people and powers, but the game shouldn't avoid the base understanding of this being the crumbiest place to be, at least when you're not a comfortable magister.
I tended to feel that DAO was mostly on the mark for what it needed to be, but just a little bland. Then DA2 was a little too destitute - this reflected the overall lack of investment in what the game need to be though, heh. Then DAI was a little too light and friendship lala, though I can see what they were trying to get at with it being so much Orlais and Chantry, and I assume they thought that having 'shadows' to its tone in politics and battlefields would be enough, I don't feel it was.
I think DA4 should go full shadows, even if it also at times goes more full light (or hopeful, etc) on more selective moments.
Lots of darker/est parts of DAO have been near outright ignored in DAI for no good reason but maybe resource allocation. Don't do that.
I want to feel like I'm in a viper's nest at all times but my home base (and I hope not always then; wreck its shit sometimes!). And unlike Orlais, this viper will be happy to strike publicly if it suits it.
When I played DAI I felt like I was playing a sanitized game that just included plausible deniability, "See we have assassinations, destitution, everything! (in theory and minor practice)". Even going back playing DAO again, I feel the darker parts of that setting more. Maybe it was stylistic elements like level, ability, and character model design, writing, camerawork, music, etc, I don't know, but DAO actually convinces me that its a junk heap of a kingdom that's in massive trouble, where DAI leans on the end of being a still relatively stable region (despite the various experiences we have, and chaos *on paper*) that we're just having some fun about before going back to home base.
Do I want DA to ever been utterly dour? Absolutely not. But I do want to be better convinced I'm in Tevinter than I was in DAI being convinced I'm in Orlais. Of course they tried a lot in DAI - I'm just saying it wasn't as effective with its darkness than I'd have wanted, but I mostly forgive that because its understandably the most hopeful/faithful/optimistic/friendly DA it could be (its a friggin Herald of Andraste story!).
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jun 18, 2019 22:26:04 GMT
I'd like more of DA:I's tone if it meant more well presented stakes and more satisfying climaxes. Also, DAI style requires Matt Rhodes or it won't feel right.
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Post by Addictress on Jun 30, 2019 2:00:38 GMT
I'm glad to see that most people agree that DAI's tone could've used improvement in some form - a playable prologue or more impact via how the narratives and lore integrate into the setting.
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Post by Polka Dot on Jun 30, 2019 4:03:16 GMT
When I played DAI I felt like I was playing a sanitized game that just included plausible deniability, "See we have assassinations, destitution, everything! (in theory and minor practice)". Even going back playing DAO again, I feel the darker parts of that setting more. Maybe it was stylistic elements like level, ability, and character model design, writing, camerawork, music, etc, I don't know, but DAO actually convinces me that its a junk heap of a kingdom that's in massive trouble, where DAI leans on the end of being a still relatively stable region (despite the various experiences we have, and chaos *on paper*) that we're just having some fun about before going back to home base. Do I want DA to ever been utterly dour? Absolutely not. But I do want to be better convinced I'm in Tevinter than I was in DAI being convinced I'm in Orlais. Of course they tried a lot in DAI - I'm just saying it wasn't as effective with its darkness than I'd have wanted, but I mostly forgive that because its understandably the most hopeful/faithful/optimistic/friendly DA it could be (its a friggin Herald of Andraste story!). One thing that may have helped quite a bit is encountering more demons. Instead of going 'round wreaking havoc once they'd entered the world they stayed put, patiently waiting for us to come kill them before sealing the rifts.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on Jul 2, 2019 8:12:53 GMT
I picked dark and gritty. I am so edgy.
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Jul 3, 2019 0:08:15 GMT
I picked dark and gritty. I am so edgy. Me too, I just love dark and gritty because when things are very dark the light is so much brighter and more meaningful. I think dark settings offer better potential for contrast, and I like stories with contrast. thats just how I roll. *shrugs*
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Post by Ieldra on Jul 7, 2019 9:38:36 GMT
I picked dark and gritty. I am so edgy. Me too, I just love dark and gritty because when things are very dark the light is so much brighter and more meaningful. I think dark settings offer better potential for contrast, and I like stories with contrast. thats just how I roll. *shrugs* Same here.
For those who would immediately object, I should mention that "dark and gritty" is not "grimdark". In grimdark settings like Warhammer 40k, there basically is no good outcome for anything, and all factions and characters are some shade of black, or at least dark grey if you're lucky. Meanwhile, the light might not be easy to find in a dark and gritty setting, but it exists and it's usually rewarding for the player, even it often doesn't come without its downsides.
As an example, I hear some people didn't like DAO's City Elf origin because of the rape theme. I can only say, when I played it my character came out of the origins story with an unshakable determination to survive and get some payback later. If the game hadn't provided that opportunity, I would've been disappointed - that would've been grimdark - but it did, and that was very satisfying. There is evil in the world, and some of it affects you personally, but you can fight back and make the world a little better. Of course it's not something you want a normal person to experience, but you aren't a normal person, and no hero has been convincingly made without adversity that affected them personally. The City Elf origin, as I see it, isn't even the worst of the DAO origins. Consider the two Dwarf origins....
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Post by x19dude95 on Aug 5, 2019 13:49:55 GMT
Dark and Magical. Like Xenoblade Chronicles for example.
For the best example go look Eryth Sea night, or Satorl Marsh night.
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