inherit
749
0
Sept 16, 2023 13:07:55 GMT
3,628
Iddy
3,711
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Feb 27, 2019 0:46:19 GMT
Since he admits to being a spy.
|
|
inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 27, 2019 1:10:11 GMT
Everything depends on roleplay. It "makes sense" in that, even without meta gaming, people can come up with any rationale that works for them and their character.
You could be of the mind to keep your enemies close, so Bull admitting to being a spy just allows you to do that. Or, even with that honesty, and perhaps even because of it, you could also be swayed by his charm in delivering that admission. Remember, this is his job; he's supposed to be charming. He takes a gamble that the truth will win him points with the Herald/Inquisitor, while counting on his other abilities to seal the deal.
It does work for a great many PCs. It does not work for my Inquisitor.
|
|
inherit
749
0
Sept 16, 2023 13:07:55 GMT
3,628
Iddy
3,711
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Feb 27, 2019 1:17:51 GMT
Everything depends on roleplay. It "makes sense" in that, even without meta gaming, people can come up with any rationale that works for them and their character. I meant if it's a smart move or not.
|
|
inherit
529
0
7,815
Nightscrawl
3,266
August 2016
nightscrawl
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 27, 2019 1:22:26 GMT
I meant if it's a smart move or not. Then the idea of keeping your enemies close still applies. That is an actual strategy. Plus, you might think it's potentially worthwhile to know whatever information Bull will be providing than not.
|
|
inherit
1274
0
3,016
sageoflife
1,412
August 2016
sageoflife
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by sageoflife on Feb 27, 2019 3:28:18 GMT
The only excuse I need is that the Inquisition really can't afford to turn down allies at that point.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Feb 27, 2019 8:51:16 GMT
He does offer us a fair information exchange, Qunari intelligence in exchange for being allowed to send his own reports back home. Even if you think he might try sending additional reports besides the non-compromising ones he promised to runs through Leliana, the intelligence is both useful and accurate.
It would also be useful to learn what sorts of things the Qunari are spying on, as maybe you can perhaps glean some insight into their mindset and future intentions for the South?
Take for instance, the inheritance dispute in Orlais... what about that interested the Qunari to pay attention to it? Do they benefit in some way from one of the parties gaining power, or rather, not taking power? Or was it inconsequential and was only given to the Inquisition to make Bull seem trustworthy, because he provided useful intelligence?
It's always a game with the Qunari. Rather than waste your time try to win, your best bet is to work out what game they're playing (or the one they want you to think they're playing), in the hopes of countering it.
|
|
boxofscreaming
N3
 
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 943 Likes: 1,656
inherit
8698
0
1,656
boxofscreaming
943
June 2017
boxofscreaming
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by boxofscreaming on Feb 27, 2019 20:17:10 GMT
Who cares if he's a spy? My character had no loyalty to any nation.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 27, 2019 21:57:29 GMT
Who cares if he's a spy? My character had no loyalty to any nation. He's spying for the Qunari. That's a bit different from working with Antiva or Rivain. The Qun's endgame is to be the only nation, and to inflict their strict way of life on everyone else whether or not that person would want it. And even though I'm pro-templar, even I think the way they treat their mages is extreme. If your character is loyal to the Dalish, or the carta, those organizations can expect to be disbanded if the Qunari ever truly and utterly win. If your character is loyal to themself alone, they probably don't want the Qunari to win either, especially but not only if that character is a mage. There's still reasons to work with him, maybe. For example if you're collecting him before the attack on Haven, the way I always do, you could rationalize that your operation isn't big enough to be worth spying on and needs all the help it can get. But it's still a bigger gamble than working with any other foreign nation's intelligence service, and lack of loyalty to the nation you're standing in (understandable or not) isn't enough to disregard that risk on its own.
|
|
inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,055
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by thats1evildude on Feb 27, 2019 22:03:29 GMT
Is it worth getting access to Ben-Hassrath intelligence reports? Yes.
Is it worth sacrificing the Chargers to keep getting those reports? That you have to decide yourself, but I'm in the "NO" camp.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Sept 21, 2023 14:48:28 GMT
29,845
Hanako Ikezawa
Fan from 2003 - 2020
22,208
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 28, 2019 0:18:22 GMT
Is it worth getting access to Ben-Hassrath intelligence reports? Yes.
Is it worth sacrificing the Chargers to keep getting those reports? That you have to decide yourself, but I'm in the "NO" camp.
Well, not just the reports. For instance you get the assistance of some of their fleet, as seen when they protect Denerim from a Venatori attack that otherwise burns half the city down.
|
|
inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,055
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by thats1evildude on Feb 28, 2019 1:36:18 GMT
I’m not sure that attack actually occurs if you save the Chargers. Reading through the operation texts, it seems the qunari’s involvement is incidental; it may be that the plot is foiled by Fereldan agents.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 28, 2019 1:56:43 GMT
I’m not sure that attack actually occurs if you save the Chargers. Reading through the operation texts, it seems the qunari’s involvement is incidental; it may be that the plot is foiled by Fereldan agents. That would explain why we don't hear anything of it otherwise. So if we kill the Chargers, the Qunari get in the way of Ferelden intelligence?
|
|
inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,055
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by thats1evildude on Feb 28, 2019 2:20:04 GMT
I’m not sure that attack actually occurs if you save the Chargers. Reading through the operation texts, it seems the qunari’s involvement is incidental; it may be that the plot is foiled by Fereldan agents. That would explain why we don't hear anything of it otherwise. So if we kill the Chargers, the Qunari get in the way of Ferelden intelligence? Well, Ferelden conducts its own investigation of the fake assasination and the fire ship is launched from Gwaren. It’s completely feasible that Ferelden agents stop the ship on their own, since they’re not tripping over Ben-Hassrath meddlers. Of course, that doesn’t earn any influence or rewards for the Inquisition.
|
|
inherit
749
0
Sept 16, 2023 13:07:55 GMT
3,628
Iddy
3,711
August 2016
iddy
|
Post by Iddy on Feb 28, 2019 16:48:21 GMT
Who cares if he's a spy? My character had no loyalty to any nation. It has nothing to do with nationality. Being spied upon by other groups is potentially risky to your own.
|
|
dirtydiscolux
N2

<3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 224 Likes: 536
inherit
7792
0
536
dirtydiscolux
<3
224
Apr 18, 2017 14:14:58 GMT
April 2017
nina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by dirtydiscolux on Mar 1, 2019 3:19:55 GMT
Since he admits to being a spy. Yes because all (but one) of my Inquisitors want to climb that. More seriously, he's offering spy reports to the Inquisition and I figure we need the info, considering we have no official support. If that logic fails and I'm sure it does for some Inquisitors, the rational is - climb that /s But not really.
|
|
inherit
299
0
Sept 20, 2023 16:38:09 GMT
5,751
AlleluiaElizabeth
2,444
August 2016
alleluiaelizabeth
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 3, 2019 11:40:38 GMT
I'd possibly use the logic I felt as a player, first time through. "He's a spy. He's told me he's a spy, so its controllable. And he hits things really hard. I'm keeping him." Is that me being manipulated? Perhaps. Still, the Herald/Inquisitor feeling like the honesty from this affable qunari about being a spy means that he can't be *that* dangerous is a viable option, imo.
|
|
bardox
N2

Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 102 Likes: 221
inherit
980
0
221
bardox
102
Aug 14, 2016 15:56:19 GMT
August 2016
bardox
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by bardox on Mar 16, 2019 8:03:13 GMT
Whether it would be smart or not, It depends on the mind set of your Inquisitor. If he/she is smart, then Bull's offer is loaded with useful potential. A mercenary group would be helpful in handling affairs the inquisition can't be directly tied to. A spy leading them isn't necessarily a bad thing. At the time you meet with bull, your not exactly overflowing with allies and political clout.
If your Inquisitor is more brutish and/or religiously pious, then Bull is nothing but a hindrance and a liability. Doesn't make sense to accept the chargers then.
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
  
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,921 Likes: 3,315
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,315
Noxluxe
1,921
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 17, 2019 10:44:04 GMT
Is it worth getting access to Ben-Hassrath intelligence reports? Yes.
Is it worth sacrificing the Chargers to keep getting those reports? That you have to decide yourself, but I'm in the "NO" camp.
Agreed on the first point. At that point Leliana is just starting up the Inquisition spy network with very limited resources. Access to the findings of an entirely separate and extensive network to complement, confirm and validate her own reports and use as leverage for the Inquisition's benefit free of charge would be a HUGE leg-up. And there's really no point starting something called "The Inquisition" if you don't prioritize finding out what's going on in the wide world. This particular benefit is essentially why my Lavellan recruited him. But the above reasons are also why personally I go in the other camp for your second point. Those reports are hugely valuable, almost imperative to the Inquisition functioning at peak efficiency. The Chargers are not.
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Mar 18, 2019 3:41:54 GMT
But the above reasons are also why personally I go in the other camp for your second point. Those reports are hugely valuable, almost imperative to the Inquisition functioning at peak efficiency. The Chargers are not. The problem though is that the Qunari are still widely viewed as a hostile foreign power, so by brokering a tentative alliance with the Qunari, it risks alienating the rest of the southern powers and preventing them from ever fully trusting the Inquisition again. The failed Qunari plot in Trespasser would further make the Inquisition look foolish for ever trusting them, even if you were to buy into the "official" story from the Triumvirate that disavowed the Viddasala's action as her "going rogue".
Even if they can't provide the same level of strategic importance as the Qunari intelligence reports, there is a value in keeping the Chargers around, as they are an effective company that gets results when put to a task. Another consideration is the good optics and PR that the Chargers, as well as Sutherland's Company, provide as representatives of the Inquisition. Both mercenary companies are made up of individuals from all races, nations and walks of life, reflecting how the Inquisition itself seeks to stand for all of Thedas, not any one race, nation or faction.
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
  
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,921 Likes: 3,315
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,315
Noxluxe
1,921
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 18, 2019 4:58:29 GMT
But the above reasons are also why personally I go in the other camp for your second point. Those reports are hugely valuable, almost imperative to the Inquisition functioning at peak efficiency. The Chargers are not. The problem though is that the Qunari are still widely viewed as a hostile foreign power, so by brokering a tentative alliance with the Qunari, it risks alienating the rest of the southern powers and preventing them from ever fully trusting the Inquisition again. The failed Qunari plot in Trespasser would further make the Inquisition look foolish for ever trusting them, even if you were to buy into the "official" story from the Triumvirate that disavowed the Viddasala's action as her "going rogue".
Even if they can't provide the same level of strategic importance as the Qunari intelligence reports, there is a value in keeping the Chargers around, as they are an effective company that gets results when put to a task. Another consideration is the good optics and PR that the Chargers, as well as Sutherland's Company, provide as representatives of the Inquisition. Both mercenary companies are made up of individuals from all races, nations and walks of life, reflecting how the Inquisition itself seeks to stand for all of Thedas, not any one race, nation or faction.
A my-agent-can-occasionally-peek-through-your-agent's-desk-drawers situation isn't the same as a military-political alliance, even a tentative one. History is full of recognized agents of foreign powers being used and exploited for mutual benefit without there being any camaraderie whatsoever, let alone trust, between nations. And as for the Qunari plot in Trespasser, the Court is fortunate to have the luxury of merely being infiltrated by invaders, partially thanks to all that information. Also, player information isn't character information. And meh, "good optics and PR" means quite a bit less in a world without effective means of mass communication or peasants having any notion of deserving political agency. And I don't know if the lore specifies exactly what the Chargers are used for throughout the game. In my mind they're mostly on standby to lend extra oomph to Inquisition forces for actual battles rather than the small skirmishes and escorts most war table operations involve. And when talking about anything resembling public demonstrations or outreach, my Inquisitor would certainly prefer to use bona fide Inquisition troops rather than hired swords. That would give entirely the wrong impression of the organization being dependent on contractors rather than a force in their own right.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Mar 18, 2019 10:11:13 GMT
But the above reasons are also why personally I go in the other camp for your second point. Those reports are hugely valuable, almost imperative to the Inquisition functioning at peak efficiency. The Chargers are not. How can you tell the reports are that crucial? We're given no reason to suspect the Chargers are, but I don't see any reason to believe the reports are either. The consequences for losing the intelligence reports are about the same as the consequences for losing the Chargers: you can't complete a few War Table missions that give you useful but minor rewards. Said minor rewards make your job a bit easier, but the game still has a happy ending without them. If you truly needed the reports, wouldn't you expect to just barely win against Corypheus and Viddasala in World-States where you didn't have them? (If the game was winnable in those World-States at all?) The problem though is that the Qunari are still widely viewed as a hostile foreign power, so by brokering a tentative alliance with the Qunari, it risks alienating the rest of the southern powers and preventing them from ever fully trusting the Inquisition again. The failed Qunari plot in Trespasser would further make the Inquisition look foolish for ever trusting them, even if you were to buy into the "official" story from the Triumvirate that disavowed the Viddasala's action as her "going rogue".
Even if they can't provide the same level of strategic importance as the Qunari intelligence reports, there is a value in keeping the Chargers around, as they are an effective company that gets results when put to a task. Another consideration is the good optics and PR that the Chargers, as well as Sutherland's Company, provide as representatives of the Inquisition. Both mercenary companies are made up of individuals from all races, nations and walks of life, reflecting how the Inquisition itself seeks to stand for all of Thedas, not any one race, nation or faction.
A my-agent-can-occasionally-peek-through-your-agent's-desk-drawers situation isn't the same as a military-political alliance, even a tentative one. History is full of recognized agents of foreign powers being used and exploited for mutual benefit without there being any camaraderie whatsoever, let alone trust, between nations. That's actually at least as good an argument against this alliance as for it, given that Sten told us during Origins the Qunari have no problem manipulating Southern Thedas with bad-faith diplomacy, and that the backstab is coming.How do you figure that, when no matter what you do with Bull you find out about the Qunari plot because you find a Qunari corpse Solas's agents left for you to find?
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
  
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,921 Likes: 3,315
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,315
Noxluxe
1,921
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 18, 2019 11:08:33 GMT
How can you tell the reports are that crucial? We're given no reason to suspect the Chargers are, but I don't see any reason to believe the reports are either. The consequences for losing the intelligence reports are about the same as the consequences for losing the Chargers: you can't complete a few War Table missions that give you useful but minor rewards. Said minor rewards make your job a bit easier, but the game still has a happy ending without them. If you truly needed the reports, wouldn't you expect to just barely win against Corypheus and Viddasala in World-States where you didn't have them? (If the game was winnable in those World-States at all? That's actually at least as good an argument against this alliance as for it, given that Sten told us during Origins the Qunari have no problem manipulating Southern Thedas with bad-faith diplomacy, and that the backstab is coming. Ahem. *points at the first two words of the subject line* How do you figure that, when no matter what you do with Bull you find out about the Qunari plot because you find a Qunari corpse Solas's agents left for you to find? You misread my post. I'm not saying that the court finds out about the infiltration due to the Qunari intelligence, I'm saying that the reason the court is fortunate enough to exist to be infiltrated in the first place is that the Inquisition knew what they needed to, when they needed to, to be able to stop Corythewhatshisface, as an argument against the Inquisition feeling "embarrassed" to have accepted the Qunari intelligence.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Mar 18, 2019 11:24:38 GMT
How can you tell the reports are that crucial? We're given no reason to suspect the Chargers are, but I don't see any reason to believe the reports are either. The consequences for losing the intelligence reports are about the same as the consequences for losing the Chargers: you can't complete a few War Table missions that give you useful but minor rewards. Said minor rewards make your job a bit easier, but the game still has a happy ending without them. If you truly needed the reports, wouldn't you expect to just barely win against Corypheus and Viddasala in World-States where you didn't have them? (If the game was winnable in those World-States at all? That's actually at least as good an argument against this alliance as for it, given that Sten told us during Origins the Qunari have no problem manipulating Southern Thedas with bad-faith diplomacy, and that the backstab is coming. Ahem. *points at the first two words of the subject line* I don't follow. You've made a good case that the Qunari intelligence is potentially useful, and that the Inquisitor might think it's worth risking keeping Bull around for, but it doesn't come up in-game except in a few War Table missions that don't give you anything you can't do without. The Influence mechanic clearly shows you gaining from it, but you don't gain all that much according to the one measurement I know of that we can actually make, and you don't lose any Influence by ticking off the Qunari. And if we're trying to make metagame judgement calls on whether it's objectively necessary, the fact is that you can win the game without touching Bull at all. So how do we know that the gamble paid off well enough that the Inquisitor would feel they needed to keep making it?Okay, that makes more sense. But how do we know the Qunari intelligence is responsible for the Inquisition winning hard enough to get that far?
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
  
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,921 Likes: 3,315
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,315
Noxluxe
1,921
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 18, 2019 12:26:49 GMT
I don't follow. You've made a good case that the Qunari intelligence is potentially useful, and that the Inquisitor might think it's worth risking keeping Bull around for, but it doesn't come up in-game except in a few War Table missions that don't give you anything you can't do without. The Influence mechanic clearly shows you gaining from it, but you don't gain all that much according to the one measurement I know of that we can actually make, and you don't lose any Influence by ticking off the Qunari. And if we're trying to make metagame judgement calls on whether it's objectively necessary, the fact is that you can win the game without touching Bull at all. So how do we know that the gamble paid off well enough that the Inquisitor would feel they needed to keep making it?Okay, that makes more sense. But how do we know the Qunari intelligence is responsible for the Inquisition winning hard enough to get that far? Without metagaming, the Inquisitor hasn't the slightest idea about any of those things when s/he's standing there on the shore deciding whether to tell Iron Bull he's hired or not. S/he has to make the call based on the apparent potential of those reports, and doesn't necessarily have any frame of reference for a possible Qunari backstab except that they probably, as Iron Bull says, don't want the Breach or Corywhatshisface to destroy the world. At the same time, he casually floats the notion that invading Thedas to deal with the Breach as fast as possible has entered their minds, and that letting him assist and write reports on our progress could help head that off. Not entirely without merit. Likewise, later during his personal quest, without metagaming, s/he has to weigh the likelihood that that extra intelligence vs the presence of the Chargers will play a significant role in saving the world and, potentially, if s/he's feeling optimistic, the Inquisition's further expansion and consolidation of power afterwards. And yes, that partially relies on how instrumental either have been in the intervening months, which isn't detailed in the game to my knowledge. Except that as I see it there's been a fairly limited need for a small band of mercenary soldiers in addition to the templars/mages and all the conscripts and recruits at our command, and the Ben-Hassrath probably wouldn't jeopardize our trust in Iron Bull by sending completely useless reports. For some reason Bioware is terrified of using numbers or going into specifics on any of these things, so our characters making such subtle predictions and those predictions actually paying off will always be as much headcanon as not. But I don't think I've made any wildly unrealistic assumptions on my Inquisitor's behalf, given the information she has available.
|
|
inherit
1685
0
1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Mar 18, 2019 14:26:19 GMT
I don't follow. You've made a good case that the Qunari intelligence is potentially useful, and that the Inquisitor might think it's worth risking keeping Bull around for, but it doesn't come up in-game except in a few War Table missions that don't give you anything you can't do without. The Influence mechanic clearly shows you gaining from it, but you don't gain all that much according to the one measurement I know of that we can actually make, and you don't lose any Influence by ticking off the Qunari. And if we're trying to make metagame judgement calls on whether it's objectively necessary, the fact is that you can win the game without touching Bull at all. So how do we know that the gamble paid off well enough that the Inquisitor would feel they needed to keep making it?Okay, that makes more sense. But how do we know the Qunari intelligence is responsible for the Inquisition winning hard enough to get that far? Without metagaming, the Inquisitor hasn't the slightest idea about any of those things when s/he's standing there on the shore deciding whether to tell Iron Bull he's hired or not. S/he has to make the call based on the apparent potential of those reports, and doesn't necessarily have any frame of reference for a possible Qunari backstab except that they probably, as Iron Bull says, don't want the Breach or Corywhatshisface to destroy the world. At the same time, he casually floats the notion that invading Thedas to deal with the Breach as fast as possible has entered their minds, and that letting him assist and write reports on our progress could help head that off. Not entirely without merit. Likewise, later at the war table, without metagaming, s/he has to weigh the likelihood that that extra intelligence vs the presence of the Chargers will play a significant role in defeating him and, potentially, if s/he's feeling optimistic, the Inquisition's further expansion and consolidation of power afterwards. And yes, that partially relies on how instrumental either have been in the intervening months, which isn't detailed in the game to my knowledge. Except that as I see it there's been a fairly limited need for a small band of mercenary soldiers in addition to the templars/mages and all the conscripts and recruits at our command, and the Ben-Hassrath probably wouldn't jeopardize our trust in Iron Bull by sending completely useless reports. For some reason Bioware is terrified of using numbers or going into specifics on any of these things, so our characters making predictions and those predictions actually paying off will always be as much headcanon as not. But I don't think I've made any wildly unrealistic assumptions on my Inquisitor's behalf, given the information she has available. Okay. The reason I was confused was that you said the Qunari reports were "hugely valuable" and didn't specify that that was headcanon. So yeah, at the point you're hiring Bull, you have no idea that Leiliana can do as well without Bull as with him. For the later choice, I'll grant that there's not as much information on how much each group is helping behind the scenes as I'd like to know, and that the Inquisitor probably knows more than Bioware's letting us. But your previous posts seem to assume without providing evidence that the Ben-Hassrath are helping a lot more than the Chargers, while the little bit of information we have seems to show Krem and the other main Chargers doing at least as much to advance the cause as the Ben-Hassrath do. And there's another concern: while you're right that the Herald doesn't necessarily know how the Qunari do things on the beach while they're hiring Bull, I'm... pretty sure at least a few hints come up during Bull's dialogue since then? If nothing else, by that point the Inquisitor probably found the book near Bull on the shore that says the Qunari will eventually try to return to take Thedas despite promising not to. So by that point the Inquisitor probably has the frame of reference for a potential Qunari backstab. The Inquisitor has to weigh how much each asset will contribute, but by that point the Inquisitor likely knows enough to realize the Qunari could be a toxic asset. If you're planning for the long game, know that the Qunari are too.
|
|