Without metagaming, does it make sense to recruit Bull?

Everything depends on roleplay. It "makes sense" in that, even without meta gaming, people can come up with any rationale that works for them and their character.

You could be of the mind to keep your enemies close, so Bull admitting to being a spy just allows you to do that. Or, even with that honesty, and perhaps even because of it, you could also be swayed by his charm in delivering that admission. Remember, this is his job; he's supposed to be charming. He takes a gamble that the truth will win him points with the Herald/Inquisitor, while counting on his other abilities to seal the deal.

It does work for a great many PCs. It does not work for my Inquisitor.

Then the idea of keeping your enemies close still applies. That is an actual strategy. Plus, you might think it's potentially worthwhile to know whatever information Bull will be providing than not.

He does offer us a fair information exchange, Qunari intelligence in exchange for being allowed to send his own reports back home. Even if you think he might try sending additional reports besides the non-compromising ones he promised to runs through Leliana, the intelligence is both useful and accurate.

It would also be useful to learn what sorts of things the Qunari are spying on, as maybe you can perhaps glean some insight into their mindset and future intentions for the South?

Take for instance, the inheritance dispute in Orlais... what about that interested the Qunari to pay attention to it? Do they benefit in some way from one of the parties gaining power, or rather, not taking power? Or was it inconsequential and was only given to the Inquisition to make Bull seem trustworthy, because he provided useful intelligence?

It's always a game with the Qunari. Rather than waste your time try to win, your best bet is to work out what game they're playing (or the one they want you to think they're playing), in the hopes of countering it.

He's spying for the Qunari. That's a bit different from working with Antiva or Rivain. The Qun's endgame is to be the only nation, and to inflict their strict way of life on everyone else whether or not that person would want it. And even though I'm pro-templar, even I think the way they treat their mages is extreme. If your character is loyal to the Dalish, or the carta, those organizations can expect to be disbanded if the Qunari ever truly and utterly win. If your character is loyal to themself alone, they probably don't want the Qunari to win either, especially but not only if that character is a mage.

There's still reasons to work with him, maybe. For example if you're collecting him before the attack on Haven, the way I always do, you could rationalize that your operation isn't big enough to be worth spying on and needs all the help it can get. But it's still a bigger gamble than working with any other foreign nation's intelligence service, and lack of loyalty to the nation you're standing in (understandable or not) isn't enough to disregard that risk on its own.

Well, not just the reports. For instance you get the assistance of some of their fleet, as seen when they protect Denerim from a Venatori attack that otherwise burns half the city down. 

That would explain why we don't hear anything of it otherwise. So if we kill the Chargers, the Qunari get in the way of Ferelden intelligence?

It has nothing to do with nationality. Being spied upon by other groups is potentially risky to your own.

I'd possibly use the logic I felt as a player, first time through. "He's a spy. He's told me he's a spy, so its controllable. And he hits things really hard. I'm keeping him." Is that me being manipulated? Perhaps. Still, the Herald/Inquisitor feeling like the honesty from this affable qunari about being a spy means that he can't be *that* dangerous is a viable option, imo.

Agreed on the first point. At that point Leliana is just starting up the Inquisition spy network with very limited resources. Access to the findings of an entirely separate and extensive network to complement, confirm and validate her own reports and use as leverage for the Inquisition's benefit free of charge would be a HUGE leg-up. And there's really no point starting something called "The Inquisition" if you don't prioritize finding out what's going on in the wide world. This particular benefit is essentially why my Lavellan recruited him.

But the above reasons are also why personally I go in the other camp for your second point. Those reports are hugely valuable, almost imperative to the Inquisition functioning at peak efficiency. The Chargers are not.

A my-agent-can-occasionally-peek-through-your-agent's-desk-drawers situation isn't the same as a military-political alliance, even a tentative one. History is full of recognized agents of foreign powers being used and exploited for mutual benefit without there being any camaraderie whatsoever, let alone trust, between nations. And as for the Qunari plot in Trespasser, the Court is fortunate to have the luxury of merely being infiltrated by invaders, partially thanks to all that information. Also, player information isn't character information. 

And meh, "good optics and PR" means quite a bit less in a world without effective means of mass communication or peasants having any notion of deserving political agency. And I don't know if the lore specifies exactly what the Chargers are used for throughout the game. In my mind they're mostly on standby to lend extra oomph to Inquisition forces for actual battles rather than the small skirmishes and escorts most war table operations involve. And when talking about anything resembling public demonstrations or outreach, my Inquisitor would certainly prefer to use bona fide Inquisition troops rather than hired swords. That would give entirely the wrong impression of the organization being dependent on contractors rather than a force in their own right.

Ahem. *points at the first two words of the subject line*


You misread my post. I'm not saying that the court finds out about the infiltration due to the Qunari intelligence, I'm saying that the reason the court is fortunate enough to exist to be infiltrated in the first place is that the Inquisition knew what they needed to, when they needed to, to be able to stop Corythewhatshisface, as an argument against the Inquisition feeling "embarrassed" to have accepted the Qunari intelligence.

Without metagaming, the Inquisitor hasn't the slightest idea about any of those things when s/he's standing there on the shore deciding whether to tell Iron Bull he's hired or not. S/he has to make the call based on the apparent potential of those reports, and doesn't necessarily have any frame of reference for a possible Qunari backstab except that they probably, as Iron Bull says, don't want the Breach or Corywhatshisface to destroy the world. At the same time, he casually floats the notion that invading Thedas to deal with the Breach as fast as possible has entered their minds, and that letting him assist and write reports on our progress could help head that off. Not entirely without merit.

Likewise, later during his personal quest, without metagaming, s/he has to weigh the likelihood that that extra intelligence vs the presence of the Chargers will play a significant role in saving the world and, potentially, if s/he's feeling optimistic, the Inquisition's further expansion and consolidation of power afterwards. And yes, that partially relies on how instrumental either have been in the intervening months, which isn't detailed in the game to my knowledge. Except that as I see it there's been a fairly limited need for a small band of mercenary soldiers in addition to the templars/mages and all the conscripts and recruits at our command, and the Ben-Hassrath probably wouldn't jeopardize our trust in Iron Bull by sending completely useless reports.

For some reason Bioware is terrified of using numbers or going into specifics on any of these things, so our characters making such subtle predictions and those predictions actually paying off will always be as much headcanon as not. But I don't think I've made any wildly unrealistic assumptions on my Inquisitor's behalf, given the information she has available.