Without metagaming, does it make sense to recruit Bull?

But if what the Qunari were giving you was hugely valuable, especially to the extent that you headcanon, you'd expect the Inquisitor to know that by the time they have to make the second decision. I'd think it would come up in conversation with Leiliana a couple times beforehand, but if nothing else, if Gatt could say "you owe us your spy network, and what we give we can take away" you'd think he'd do it when the decision and the stakes for his people became clear. Or, since Leiliana knows whatever the plot wants her to, you'd think if the Qunari really were doing all that much to help she'd warn you not to jeopardize that as you were heading to the Storm Coast. The fact that the Qunari aren't explicitly stated to be doing all that much probably means that it isn't true, and that the help from the Ben-Hassrath is just one more asset in your spymaster's arsenal. Yes, they want the Inquisition to succeed at its stated goals, but that's not evidence that they're doing all that much to help it along.You're not mentioning the fact that you're sacrificing the Chargers. You seem to be underselling how much of a dilemma that is.

Sure, they knew the risks and are willing to take them, and just kneejerk saving them for emotional reasons isn't the best way of doing things. But they are useful; that much is beyond question. It's hard to say how useful they are compared to the Qunari, but the only measure we have, the Influence increases, seems to suggest that they're about the same. And you know they're working for you, and not... say trying to take over the world.

Speaking of trying to take over the world, I don't think you addressed my point about Bull's dialogue. A lot of my reaction to it is based on the fact that I knew going in that we're talking about people who want to take over Southern Thedas one day, but that said: doesn't Bull explicitly state that that's the plan at one point? I can think of at least two points when something like that happens, actually: during the setup for Bull's personal quest, when he also notes that things are progressing faster than he'd always imagined they would, and once during ordinary dialogue when the Inquisitor asks what would happen to everyone in the Inner Circle if it happened. (The results are not good, btw.) That does seem to hint that the Qunari and the Inquisition don't have the same goals over the long run.Like I said, it's the one right down the beach from Iron Bull. It's kind of weird if you didn't find it, since you need to go pretty close to it to find him. That said, I don't think it's directly on the way, so if you left right after you got him instead of continuing to explore the area the way I always do, I guess you (and by extension your Inquisitor) could have missed it.

If you did, it's here.

I'm also not sure of your headcanon that Lavellan wouldn't have heard much about the Qunari. It would make a lot of sense if he hadn't given the Dalish lifestyle, but the storyteller in Zathrian's clan knows enough to keep up a sarcastic dialogue with Sten that compares the Qunari conquests to the human Exalted Marches. That doesn't tell us how much Lavellan's clan knows, but we know the Dalish clans share information every ten years or so. So I'd guess that all the clans know at least the broad strokes.


Probably to some degree. But I think in-game rationale seems to back them up.

Friends close enemies closer.

Anyway I think of him as an unofficial ambassador.

They literally can't afford them prior to Skyhold. After Skyhold and all the influx of volunteers, why would you need some random Merc company that wants good money and says they expect primo cash?

I feel like ladyofnemesis. The inquisition needs any help as well the Grey Wardens needed help from Witches of the Wilds.

It helps to stop Corypheus. Unfortunately, the Inquisition is not able to kick off the Qunaris from Skyhold two years later. And each stupid Elf from each throne room in Thedas.

Honestly...just out of curiosity, after meeting Krem and hearing his offer, yeah, I would meet with and recruit Bull even after finding out he's a spy. I liked that he admitted it and I liked his reasoning for it. Also after witnessing how he was with his men and his men were with him, I liked his personality and could appreciate his leadership skills.

Elves in Thedas are idiots. They are crying and whineing how mean the humansare. they don't think about why that is. Admitted, they all do not know either. I fully understand that they were expelled from the Dales. They deserved it with that behavior. 
In DA2 it feld right to kill all the elves that helped the Arishok. Only because the humans are so "mean *howl*"
Idiots.

It can make sense depending on your character's personal reasons.

My Trevelyan was a rogue underworld-connected scoundrel who rebelled against her family's wishes as much as possible. She recruited the Chargers because recruiting a band of ragtags of all races is a fuck-you to southern nobility in general, in terms of PR it makes it seem the Super Special Divine Chosen One accepts all races, the reports sound pretty useful and will be screened by a talented Spymaster. Plus imagine how livid mom and dad will be if she porks one of those scary oxmen from the north.

My Adaar is basically a female version of him (qunari mercenary squad leader with varied members and 2H Warrior) and she trusts her instincts that he's a good dude despite the Qun stuff. Which since she saved the Chargers in that playthrough, she was completely right about.

My Lavellan trusted that if Leliana screened him and said it was fine, it would be fine. (It wasn't fine come Trespasser)

A: Better to keep the "enemy" close and be able to monitor their activity than have them out in the wild wild world doing WHO knows what.

B: My Dalish was a bit of an oddball in his clan; fascinated by other cultures and eager to snap up every legend and story he could get his grubby little paws on (explaining his knowledge of things he should by all rights be ignorant of if not for the codex). So he knows EXACTLY what the Qunari are/what they intend, and that Bull has at this point gone native-Tal'Vashoth in all but name-and wants to help with that.

Hm, very good question. For me, and my main character, getting as many allies as possible was very important, and you get a lot by recruiting Bull. Intel, a strong companion, the Chargers, a link to the Qunari which might be a little distasteful to some but having that open link can only be a good thing. Bull's honesty about who he is, what he does and what he and the Chargers can offer was what tipped the scales for me. The issue of the breach and Corypheus is bigger than just Ferelden.

It would have been interesting from an RP perspective to have times when you tried to control what information he as given (and so what he could pass on).

Also, for my 'canon' character, Alexandria, she was interested in Bull from the get go.

My first character was a Qunari (well, Vashoth) mage, so I naturally took a dubious/hostile approach, and if it weren't for naturally wanting to recruit everyone and see what their stories are I don't think I would have justified accepting his offer. She was also only interested in women (is there a Thedas word equivalent to lesbian?) so personal interest isn't really going to work either.

but a spy isn't quite the same threat or danger when they come right out and tell you they're a spy.. if you know who the spy is, you can limit what information they have access to and even feed them false/misleading information to your benefit. And his skills (as both a spymaster and a fighter) and merc company would definitely be an asset to the Inquisition, especially early on in the game (when people most often recruit Bull, I assume, since its available early on) when the Inquisition is trying to get a foothold and get people to take them seriously.

So it seems like the benefits outweigh the risks, and that it would therefore make sense to recruit him even apart from any meta-game perspective. That's my take on it at any rate. 

He could help other spies sneak in, though.