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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 27, 2019 23:44:08 GMT
99% of the milky way is unexplored. They choose to go to Andromeda? Okay maybe the simple excuse is that they want to push the frontiers and stake a claim, forget about the personal dumb reasons of the individuals going since i find them all dumb.
What about the tech? How the hell did they get there? Excuse given is that a geth megascope with super secret codes that will allow them to get to andromeda with a predefined path. And i guess the actual hardware is confiscated reaper tech after sovereign's death? Doesnt make sense. Please, thoughts?
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 27, 2019 23:45:58 GMT
also everything is pre-explored for you, except for the remnant vaults of course. So disappointed, this isnt exploring a new galaxy, its already been explored. I want to do a second playthrough but then i remember the premise and that you arent actually doing shit but playing catch up with the big bad...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 2:33:08 GMT
You first: Explain to me why we first landed on the moon in 1969 and have, so far, sent 6 probes to look for water and signs of life on Mars, launched 3 space stations, and sent probes to both the inner and outer reaches of our solar system when:
Also, since you think all the personal reasons given for going were dumb... what are you doing tending a bar on the Nexus?
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Post by ahglock on Feb 28, 2019 3:57:57 GMT
Yeah its crap. Its just that they needed to avoid the ME3 endings so they had to come up with something. Magic space drive no one else has, looking towards Andromeda as your first shot despite wide areas unknown in this galaxy that you couldn't reach since the relays were inactive. The individual reasons for going were bad, the people were varying shades of incompetent, their plans were crap, they seemingly had no plans for if something went wrong, they oddly have the nexus show up before the pathfinder ships which is both illogical and a detriment to the gameplay.
You either get past the buy in or you don't. If you can get past it, its a decent game. It has flaws and clearly is missing content, but its decent.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 28, 2019 4:16:57 GMT
Yeah its crap. Its just that they needed to avoid the ME3 endings so they had to come up with something. Magic space drive no one else has, looking towards Andromeda as your first shot despite wide areas unknown in this galaxy that you couldn't reach since the relays were inactive. The individual reasons for going were bad, the people were varying shades of incompetent, their plans were crap, they seemingly had no plans for if something went wrong, they oddly have the nexus show up before the pathfinder ships which is both illogical and a detriment to the gameplay. You either get past the buy in or you don't. If you can get past it, its a decent game. It has flaws and clearly is missing content, but its decent. Well the game isn’t bad on its own but the entire premise is soul crushing from a lore perspective. I want to buy into it but the premise is ridiculous that I can’t find it in my heart to do a second playthrough. From a role playing perspective and with the lore in mind the entire premise ruins the whole experience in my opinion. |
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 28, 2019 4:19:38 GMT
You first: Explain to me why we first landed on the moon in 1969 and have, so far, sent 6 probes to look for water and signs of life on Mars, launched 3 space stations, and sent probes to both the inner and outer reaches of our solar system when:
Also, since you think all the personal reasons given for going were dumb... what are you doing tending a bar on the Nexus?
Not an argument. Why don’t they just explore inaccessible parts of the Milky Way galaxy with this new tech? I mean I believe your example of the real world is apples and oranges relating to going to andromeda in this game. |
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 28, 2019 4:21:28 GMT
You first: Explain to me why we first landed on the moon in 1969 and have, so far, sent 6 probes to look for water and signs of life on Mars, launched 3 space stations, and sent probes to both the inner and outer reaches of our solar system when:
Also, since you think all the personal reasons given for going were dumb... what are you doing tending a bar on the Nexus?
Also all the maps in the game are pre-explored. There is no first contact because you showed up late. What was the point of this game if not “exploring” a new galaxy and actually being a pathfinder??? |
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Post by ahglock on Feb 28, 2019 4:24:06 GMT
Yeah its crap. Its just that they needed to avoid the ME3 endings so they had to come up with something. Magic space drive no one else has, looking towards Andromeda as your first shot despite wide areas unknown in this galaxy that you couldn't reach since the relays were inactive. The individual reasons for going were bad, the people were varying shades of incompetent, their plans were crap, they seemingly had no plans for if something went wrong, they oddly have the nexus show up before the pathfinder ships which is both illogical and a detriment to the gameplay. You either get past the buy in or you don't. If you can get past it, its a decent game. It has flaws and clearly is missing content, but its decent. Well the game isn’t bad on its own but the entire premise is soul crushing from a lore perspective. I want to buy into it but the premise is ridiculous that I can’t find it in my heart to do a second playthrough. From a role playing perspective and with the lore in mind the entire premise ruins the whole experience in my opinion. I basically agree, given the time frame used a super drive doesn't make much sense and breaks the lore. I'd of preferred a wormhole or something. Even a super drive I maybe could have bought into lore wise if they had done it at a different part of the timeline. Hell mid-reaper war I might have been able to buy with the right story.
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Post by dutchsghost7 on Feb 28, 2019 4:30:45 GMT
Well the game isn’t bad on its own but the entire premise is soul crushing from a lore perspective. I want to buy into it but the premise is ridiculous that I can’t find it in my heart to do a second playthrough. From a role playing perspective and with the lore in mind the entire premise ruins the whole experience in my opinion. I basically agree, given the time frame used a super drive doesn't make much sense and breaks the lore. I'd of preferred a wormhole or something. Even a super drive I maybe could have bought into lore wise if they had done it at a different part of the timeline. Hell mid-reaper war I might have been able to buy with the right story. Yea I would have bought the premise if they were running away from the reapers and the initiative was a council dead mans switch to ensure the council races would survive in the case of a galaxy wide foreign gencoidal invasion from dark space. And that they’re basically using sovereign tech to get them there. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 6:14:35 GMT
You first: Explain to me why we first landed on the moon in 1969 and have, so far, sent 6 probes to look for water and signs of life on Mars, launched 3 space stations, and sent probes to both the inner and outer reaches of our solar system when:
Also, since you think all the personal reasons given for going were dumb... what are you doing tending a bar on the Nexus?
Not an argument. Why don’t they just explore inaccessible parts of the Milky Way galaxy with this new tech? I mean I believe your example of the real world is apples and oranges relating to going to andromeda in this game. Why don't they just make the investment to develop tech to explore the unexplored areas of the oceans instead of investing billions upon billions searching for signs of water on Mars? You're searching for logic in something that isn't logical even in the real world. Where we invest or time, money, and energies on exploration, it isn't always in the most logical way.
I don't think it's logical that you're lamenting that 99% of a fake galaxy is unexplored. The reality is that 99% of that fake galaxy was just never created. The creators of that galaxy decided they wanted to create a fake Andromeda galaxy instead. Nothing has been unexplored because nothing more than what they create in this franchise exists at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 6:25:51 GMT
I basically agree, given the time frame used a super drive doesn't make much sense and breaks the lore. I'd of preferred a wormhole or something. Even a super drive I maybe could have bought into lore wise if they had done it at a different part of the timeline. Hell mid-reaper war I might have been able to buy with the right story. Yea I would have bought the premise if they were running away from the reapers and the initiative was a council dead mans switch to ensure the council races would survive in the case of a galaxy wide foreign gencoidal invasion from dark space. And that they’re basically using sovereign tech to get them there. ... and that's precisely what Ryder's Family Secrets are pointing towards. Who the Benefactor is has not been revealed to us... and now may never be revealed to us because there's a chance that EA may not give Bioware any more chances to winn9ver public approval for one of their games.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2019 7:04:42 GMT
You first: Explain to me why we first landed on the moon in 1969 and have, so far, sent 6 probes to look for water and signs of life on Mars, launched 3 space stations, and sent probes to both the inner and outer reaches of our solar system when:
Also, since you think all the personal reasons given for going were dumb... what are you doing tending a bar on the Nexus?
Also all the maps in the game are pre-explored. There is no first contact because you showed up late. What was the point of this game if not “exploring” a new galaxy and actually being a pathfinder??? As I said on another thread... the Initiative's motives for going were, among other things, stated to be for exploration. That does not mean that the game's story is about exploration. The game's story is about environmental manipulation and genetic manipulation. A first contact situation was never "promised" by the devs. You're simply saying you don't like that this story wasn't about what YOU expected it to be about. Your prerogative to dislike it. Still not an obligation for the devs to write anything to your exact specifications just because you dreamed up in your head ahead of time that their story was going to be about something else.
There's a line at the end that also indicates that being a pathfinder didn't wind up being about what Alec Ryder dreamed it would be about when he named the position. It was the young Ryder who "defined it" (within the confines of the story, the job description is what Ryder did with it) He/she found a path to create a habitable environment for the Initiative in the Andromeda Galaxy.
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Post by opuspace on Feb 28, 2019 16:41:48 GMT
...Hi Dutch.
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Post by feuerrabe on Feb 28, 2019 16:42:03 GMT
99% of the milky way is unexplored. They choose to go to Andromeda? Okay maybe the simple excuse is that they want to push the frontiers and stake a claim, forget about the personal dumb reasons of the individuals going since i find them all dumb. What about the tech? How the hell did they get there? Excuse given is that a geth megascope with super secret codes that will allow them to get to andromeda with a predefined path. And i guess the actual hardware is confiscated reaper tech after sovereign's death? Doesnt make sense. Please, thoughts? Well, the reason for each individual to join the initiative is the number one question you can ask any character. It is in human nature to explore and spread out, and I suppose humans are not the only ones; there does not need to be a reason to do be wanting to do it, just like humanity does send probes into space, even though the depth of the oceans have not fully been explored and only fractions of the insect species in the jungles are catalogued. However, there is an indication that the coming Reaper threat was forseen. To spread over several galaxies is a viable strategy to minimize the threat of mass extinction once the threat of galaxy wide catastrophes has been recognised. Ultimately there were things going in the Initiative, it's benefactor and so forth, which are yet undisclosed.
On a real world level the decision has a lot to do with the Bioware not wanting to impose a single one ending of ME3 on the players, and they also wanted to avoid setting their game in the past.
They did get there with FTL drives. The distance between galaxies, relative to their size, is much smaller than the distance between stars in a galaxy, relative to their size. Obviously they had to develop some means to discharge their drive (FTL drives supposedly built up static electricity during travel), and carry enough fuel for such a long trip. That, however, is not an insolvable problem I suppose. The Milky Way is roughly 100,000 light years across and Andromeda roughly 2,000,000 light years away. The space between galaxies is not completely empty, though. There are stray star in the intergalactic void, as it happens that stars are flung out of galaxies from occasionally. While you may have to travel a few thousend light years between stars, I suppose there are ways to refuel and discharge on occasion.
The telescope is Geth tech, not reaper tech. They used it to collect real time* data from Andromeda. Using a normal telescope that pics up electromagnetic radiation (e.g. light, x-ray, gamma ray, radio waves...) any information on the galaxy would be 2 million years old and even in the mass effect universe there might not be sufficient technology to resolve individual star systems that far away and determine which of is a candidate for settlement. While the situation had changed massively when the Andromda Initiative arrived in the Heleus Cluster, these changes had all taken place within the last few centuries.
* Let's not get into special relativity and just pretend there was a universal "now". Relativity always gets gives me a head ache.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 28, 2019 16:45:48 GMT
also everything is pre-explored for you, except for the remnant vaults of course. So disappointed, this isnt exploring a new galaxy, its already been explored. I want to do a second playthrough but then i remember the premise and that you arent actually doing shit but playing catch up with the big bad... You're using a fairly odd definition of "doing shit" there.
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 1, 2019 15:57:58 GMT
The problem, IMO, is not the tech to get there, but the tech they used to gather information about the galaxy before arriving.
They took 600 years, if I'm not mistaken to get there. Which means they rely on information THAT IS 600 YEARS OLD. The planets could have been all destroyed by a super advanced alien race, there could be multiple things going wrong, but still they decide it's a good idea.
Then not only they decide it's a good idea, they get all impressed when things don't work out the way they thought it would! "What, how is that happening on this planet?! The data we gathered showed a different thing"
Ugh. Not to mention that most people in the Initiative seem dumb as hell (Liam, for example).
I think a plot that would make sense is that The Initiative was created by a guy who wanted to expel the dumbest people of the Milky Way so they wouldn't screw up against the Reapers.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 1, 2019 16:50:25 GMT
Although 600 years, in cosmic time, is an eyeblink. There's a nonzero chance of a local race suddenly developing starflight or an outside race/coalition expanding into the target zone from elsewhere, sure, but having it happen in that 600-year window is not very likely.
But yeah, the AI is a bet that either no such race will exist or that they'd be friendly.
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Post by feuerrabe on Mar 1, 2019 17:21:05 GMT
600 years is nothing on geologic time scales. Eve the asteroid which killed off the dinosaurs 65 million years ago (a process which took 50 thousand years) did not change earth that much.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 1, 2019 21:21:42 GMT
Of course, this being an RPG, the fantastic unlikeliness of any of the garden worlds becoming uncolonizable made it a certainty that they all would be.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 11, 2019 21:09:29 GMT
I agree, 600 years is not an issue and they really couldn't have predicted the scourge. What is an issue however (at least to me) is how they got current information about Andromeda in the first place. And no, just slapping the words "geth" and "mass relay" together and hope nobody would notice didn't do it for me. Nothing about the per-existing lore about either suggests how you could possibly get information from Andromeda to the Milky Way instantly. That really was just cheap.
And @op, I agree, the premise is stupid. Best to just ignore it as much as possible and move on to the better parts of the game.
I don't quite agree with the pre-explored stuff though. I thought this was fairly well done. Right in the beginning on Habitat 7, you get a sense of being thrown in a really alien environment. You are also the first one to visit Aya, Voeld and Hawarl. (Well, there are a few MW people on the latter two but they weren't much of an issue for me).
And I do get why such a character focused game needed some other people there to interact with. Just running around on an empty planet wouldn't have been fun for long I imagineo I'm ok with that part.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 12, 2019 5:27:29 GMT
I agree, 600 years is not an issue and they really couldn't have predicted the scourge. What is an issue however (at least to me) is how they got current information about Andromeda in the first place. And no, just slapping the words "geth" and "mass relay" together and hope nobody would notice didn't do it for me. Nothing about the per-existing lore about either suggests how you could possibly get information from Andromeda to the Milky Way instantly. That really was just cheap.
And @op, I agree, the premise is stupid. Best to just ignore it as much as possible and move on to the better parts of the game.
I don't quite agree with the pre-explored stuff though. I thought this was fairly well done. Right in the beginning on Habitat 7, you get a sense of being thrown in a really alien environment. You are also the first one to visit Aya, Voeld and Hawarl. (Well, there are a few MW people on the latter two but they weren't much of an issue for me).
And I do get why such a character focused game needed some other people there to interact with. Just running around on an empty planet wouldn't have been fun for long I imagineo I'm ok with that part.
Meh. 2 of 6 planets not being explored by MW races isn't really a great ratio IMO. If the other 4 had been unexplored by either you or the current Angara I think it would have been much better, you'd almost be like a pathfinder or something. The Hyperion shows up and tracks down the other arcs and starts doing what it can to prep for the arrival of the nexus the largest group of the colonists by scouting and starting colonies, developing resources, meeting the locals, protecting themselves from hostile aliens etc. Dunn would be the person issuing you the Tempest she could have a lack of faith in you is somewhat justified since she just saw you as a rookie with little experience 5 minutes ago if you need some political conflict.
Also it would have protected us from the absolute trash that is the story they set up where everyone but you and your team is the biggest collection of incompetents imaginable. The whole nexus uprising, exiles etc is the dumbest thing imaginable. It is like they were trying to repeat the politician foil thing from ME1, but instead of them being justifiably skeptical of reapers, they are just idiots. As the first people there everyone could be at least relatively competent, prepared for setbacks, but still struggling as the scourge has made every system seemingly unlivable on top of the kett. Instead you just keep dealing with idiots while you magic wand your way through all the problems. Heck figuring out the remnant could have been a thing instead of just magic wand SAM solving it for you, though I guess that could have been true even with team idiot showing up first.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 12, 2019 21:49:46 GMT
I agree, 600 years is not an issue and they really couldn't have predicted the scourge. What is an issue however (at least to me) is how they got current information about Andromeda in the first place. And no, just slapping the words "geth" and "mass relay" together and hope nobody would notice didn't do it for me. Nothing about the per-existing lore about either suggests how you could possibly get information from Andromeda to the Milky Way instantly. That really was just cheap.
And @op, I agree, the premise is stupid. Best to just ignore it as much as possible and move on to the better parts of the game.
I don't quite agree with the pre-explored stuff though. I thought this was fairly well done. Right in the beginning on Habitat 7, you get a sense of being thrown in a really alien environment. You are also the first one to visit Aya, Voeld and Hawarl. (Well, there are a few MW people on the latter two but they weren't much of an issue for me).
And I do get why such a character focused game needed some other people there to interact with. Just running around on an empty planet wouldn't have been fun for long I imagineo I'm ok with that part.
Meh. 2 of 6 planets not being explored by MW races isn't really a great ratio IMO. If the other 4 had been unexplored by either you or the current Angara I think it would have been much better, you'd almost be like a pathfinder or something. The Hyperion shows up and tracks down the other arcs and starts doing what it can to prep for the arrival of the nexus the largest group of the colonists by scouting and starting colonies, developing resources, meeting the locals, protecting themselves from hostile aliens etc. Dunn would be the person issuing you the Tempest she could have a lack of faith in you is somewhat justified since she just saw you as a rookie with little experience 5 minutes ago if you need some political conflict.
Also it would have protected us from the absolute trash that is the story they set up where everyone but you and your team is the biggest collection of incompetents imaginable. The whole nexus uprising, exiles etc is the dumbest thing imaginable. It is like they were trying to repeat the politician foil thing from ME1, but instead of them being justifiably skeptical of reapers, they are just idiots. As the first people there everyone could be at least relatively competent, prepared for setbacks, but still struggling as the scourge has made every system seemingly unlivable on top of the kett. Instead you just keep dealing with idiots while you magic wand your way through all the problems. Heck figuring out the remnant could have been a thing instead of just magic wand SAM solving it for you, though I guess that could have been true even with team idiot showing up first.
Agreed on the Nexus folks being massive idiots. That's a given (just look at my recent post in the "what did you do today in Andromeda" thread.  .
Still, I get why there needed to be people around in most environments. Wouldn't have had to be MW people, could have been more and different aliens (probably a resource constraint in development though, to design and add more new alien species) but I think an ME game needs to have you interact with characters a lot.
If the planets we explored were just empty of any NPCs to interact with, all character interaction would pretty much happen in the hub areas, which Anthem just showed is not a great idea. So I'll stick with it, I don't minds NPCs being distributed throughout the places we get to explore, more aliens and more first contact situations would probably have been better but I can deal with what they did in the game.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 12, 2019 22:05:26 GMT
Oh I’m not arguing for empty planets. Just that neither team MW or any instant local ally race is there first. Have thriving planets, natives of various tech levels, heck don’t make the kett be a one dimensional bad guy race and have them on those planets. Everything we bumped into could have been there but insert native race here. It’s not like they were striving for unique looking aliens. They could have planted a dozen generic aliens there. Heck given the genetic engineering angle they could all be based on the angara but genetically engineered to the specific environments of the planets they were placed on. Have the aya group be your instant friend to act as the bridge for the player to understand the new galaxy. The rest who look just like modified angara you have to work with to gain enough loyalty to drop a colony. They then say fuck no to any colonies with krogans once they understand their birth rate.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 13, 2019 4:50:23 GMT
They could have planted a dozen generic aliens there. I am sure this would have lead to criticism very quickly as well. I mean, I am not sure if I would have like dozens of samey looking but lore-wise different alien species with sort of the same gear and style (would have been needed to accommodate gameplay and save on development time for assets) in the same cluster. That would have felt really weird as well, I think. In the end, of course you could have done 10.000 things differently and most likely improved stuff but ultimately, how much variety you can provide is a matter of development resources and at some point you will need to compromise. Given how crappy ME:A's development apparently went down, I am actually quite astonished they got together as much as they did in the end.
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