Kabraxal
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 4, 2020 22:37:24 GMT
Signal their openness to single player? That occurred recently with Fallen Order. Not only supporting a SP game, but there have been murmurs they are going more hands off and letting games be designed without the necessity of an online component. Why they pulled all resources off ME and towards Anthem? This is more lining up the evidence over the past few years, but it seems obvious that EA didn't value SP and that, as we've come to learn, Anthem was a dumpster fire in terms of development. They had to pull every bit of support they could just to get that game shipped... even if they knew they'd have to completely rework it at some point. To the best of my recollection, EA did not pull resources form ME:A to Anthem. They closed the Montreal office and transferred a bunch of the staff to EA Motive, which was not working on Anthem. EA also gave Bioware a 5-year chance to make Andromeda (a single-player RPG) with less of a MP component than ME3 had in that playing ME:A multiplayer offered no advantage in the single-player game not attainable through free real-time automatic mini-game.
It's MP component was the same as ME3. And, while they might have given them time, EA at that period was insistent on all games having a multiplayer component. Notice how even Dragon Age had it when it really had no clamour from the fanbase for it. Fallen Order is a huge departure from the last 7 years for EA.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 23:38:44 GMT
To the best of my recollection, EA did not pull resources form ME:A to Anthem. They closed the Montreal office and transferred a bunch of the staff to EA Motive, which was not working on Anthem. EA also gave Bioware a 5-year chance to make Andromeda (a single-player RPG) with less of a MP component than ME3 had in that playing ME:A multiplayer offered no advantage in the single-player game not attainable through free real-time automatic mini-game.
It's MP component was the same as ME3. And, while they might have given them time, EA at that period was insistent on all games having a multiplayer component. Notice how even Dragon Age had it when it really had no clamour from the fanbase for it. Fallen Order is a huge departure from the last 7 years for EA. Not exactly the same in that, initially, you needed it to get Galactic Readiness over 50% and were unable to unlock all the endings without getting more than 50% of the available war assets. You could play ME:A and 100% complete everything without ever actually sending out a single strike team (since you only had to open the terminal to complete First Strike), let alone participate in a MP mission.
You might also recall this:
It wasn't just EA and game publishers pushing for online components in games. Console manufacturers were practically demanding it to force the switch to digital sales and suck the value out of sales of used discs.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 5, 2020 0:15:56 GMT
To the best of my recollection, EA did not pull resources form ME:A to Anthem. They closed the Montreal office and transferred a bunch of the staff to EA Motive, which was not working on Anthem. EA also gave Bioware a 5-year chance to make Andromeda (a single-player RPG) with less of a MP component than ME3 had in that playing ME:A multiplayer offered no advantage in the single-player game not attainable through free real-time automatic mini-game.
It's MP component was the same as ME3. And, while they might have given them time, EA at that period was insistent on all games having a multiplayer component. Notice how even Dragon Age had it when it really had no clamour from the fanbase for it. Fallen Order is a huge departure from the last 7 years for EA. I get the distinct feeling that EA was feeling a bit of pressure to make something like Fallen Order. Battlefield 2 was a shit show and they rightly got raked over the coals by fans over it. From what I understand, the game is a fair shade better these days, but only because they got a lot of guff for their terrible decisions. The Star Wars property was looking pretty tarnished by that point, and they needed something to appease fans with.
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 5, 2020 0:26:55 GMT
Actually, it had more to do with manpower and the disaster that Anthem was becoming. Naturally they would direct resources to a live service game that, when done right, will be a constant cash cow with very little effort and not create SP DLC that would make a fraction of that service. Hell, it might have been different now seeing as how they are allowing SP games to have a chance. EA had vastly different priorities back then. So, to translate that: it was not profitable to continue supporting Andromeda, so they stopped.
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Post by Polka Dot on Mar 5, 2020 0:44:07 GMT
Signal their openness to single player? That occurred recently with Fallen Order. Not only supporting a SP game, but there have been murmurs they are going more hands off and letting games be designed without the necessity of an online component. Why they pulled all resources off ME and towards Anthem? This is more lining up the evidence over the past few years, but it seems obvious that EA didn't value SP and that, as we've come to learn, Anthem was a dumpster fire in terms of development. They had to pull every bit of support they could just to get that game shipped... even if they knew they'd have to completely rework it at some point. To the best of my recollection, EA did not pull resources form ME:A to Anthem. They closed the Montreal office and transferred a bunch of the staff to EA Motive, which was not working on Anthem. EA also gave Bioware a 5-year chance to make Andromeda (a single-player RPG) with less of a MP component than ME3 had in that playing ME:A multiplayer offered no advantage in the single-player game not attainable through free real-time automatic mini-game.
Later, yeah. But what may be more to the point is the whole idea that the Montreal studio ever would have taken point on the development of a major IP in the first place. IIRC, prior to that, the Montreal studio had primarily supported other titles, and their biggest claim to fame was having developed the Omega DLC for ME3. But Edmonton was up to their eyeballs in Anthem (except for a small core team doing preprod on DA4), so MEA was dumped on Montreal.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 1:12:51 GMT
To the best of my recollection, EA did not pull resources form ME:A to Anthem. They closed the Montreal office and transferred a bunch of the staff to EA Motive, which was not working on Anthem. EA also gave Bioware a 5-year chance to make Andromeda (a single-player RPG) with less of a MP component than ME3 had in that playing ME:A multiplayer offered no advantage in the single-player game not attainable through free real-time automatic mini-game.
Later, yeah. But what may be more to the point is the whole idea that the Montreal studio ever would have taken point on the development of a major IP in the first place. IIRC, prior to that, the Montreal studio had primarily supported other titles, and their biggest claim to fame was having developed the Omega DLC for ME3. But Edmonton was up to their eyeballs in Anthem (except for a small core team doing preprod on DA4), so MEA was dumped on Montreal. The way I recall it going down was that Bioware wasn't really convinced to do another Mass Effect game after the ME3 debacle until after Anthem was already in development. The Montreal team was comprised of people who joined the company with a desire to work on a Mass Effect game. So, again, no staff were pulled from ME:A to work on Anthen; rather staff were not pulled from Anthem to work on ME:A after the company finally decided to try to make another Mass Effect game. People keep forgetting that ME3 was intended to be the finale for Mass Effect.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 5, 2020 13:22:58 GMT
And yet you can't use any of your team mates combos. And because most of them require significant points to have invested in them to get them to either prime or detonate is ham strings the hell out of someone playing a biotic early to mid game. Tech is far easier and more reliable even when trying to play a biotic character I ended up doing all the activities needed to get trophies and then just went back to my flame/Cloak/electric combo options because they covered all the bases. Because again any shield prevents biotics from working. As for the death peekaboo I spend the same amount of time in cover as I did in ME 1,2 and 3. Nothing about that changed. Every major fight was me sitting in cover shooting only when the Kett or Rokar popped their heads up. Even playing as a Vanguard I spent more time hiding in cover slowly stripping shields and health so I could at least use some biotic power combo.
ME2 and ME3 I was far more mobile as a Vanguard then I was as one in MEA.
Not trying to discount what you're saying, but, I have to post this xD Damn. And I thought Fallout 76 was bad.....
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 5, 2020 15:59:40 GMT
Not trying to discount what you're saying, but, I have to post this xD Damn. And I thought Fallout 76 was bad..... I don't think you actually watched Fallout 76 gameplay videos or are at all familiar with Bethesda's approach to combat if you think this is remotely similar in quality, or in any way worse.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 5, 2020 16:04:16 GMT
Damn. And I thought Fallout 76 was bad..... I don't think you actually watched Fallout 76 gameplay videos or are at all familiar with Bethesda's approach to combat if you think this is remotely similar in quality, or in any way worse. And also: and then had butt sex with a group of Super Mutants.
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Kabraxal
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 5, 2020 17:10:28 GMT
Actually, it had more to do with manpower and the disaster that Anthem was becoming. Naturally they would direct resources to a live service game that, when done right, will be a constant cash cow with very little effort and not create SP DLC that would make a fraction of that service. Hell, it might have been different now seeing as how they are allowing SP games to have a chance. EA had vastly different priorities back then. So, to translate that: it was not profitable to continue supporting Andromeda, so they stopped. It was viewed as not as much potential profit as a working Anthem. It didn't lose money according to all data, but it wasn't making as much as they originally thought nor did it look like it could match the potential of a game like Destiny. So it wasn't EA's priority at a time before they saw the light and accepted single player as viable again. Not trying to discount what you're saying, but, I have to post this xD Damn. And I thought Fallout 76 was bad..... Do you ever say anything good here or is it just constant Bioware bashing?
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 5, 2020 17:13:56 GMT
It was viewed as not as much potential profit as a working Anthem. So, to translate this: it was deemed not profitable to continue support Andromeda, and so that support was stopped. It does not need to lose money to be "not profitable". If a different course brings in a lot more profitable, then the alternative is not profitable in comparison. Less profitable or not-profitable is splitting hairs. A lot of movies deemed failures by their studios ultimately drew a profit, but if that profit is tiny compared to the investment then it is a failure, especially when alternatives that bring in many times that investment are available. They dropped Andromeda because it was not good for profits.
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 5, 2020 17:16:05 GMT
It was viewed as not as much potential profit as a working Anthem. So, to translate this: it was deemed not profitable to continue support Andromeda, and so that support was stopped. It does not need to lose money to be "not profitable". If a different course brings in a lot more profitable, then the alternative is not profitable in comparison. Less profitable or not-profitable is splitting hairs. A lot of movies deemed failures by their studios ultimately drew a profit, but if that profit is tiny compared to the investment then it is a failure, especially when alternatives that bring in many times that investment are available. They dropped Andromeda because it was not good for profits. Not profitable = not making money ME:A was profitable by definition by all data we have been provided. So saying it was stopped because it wasn't profitable is false. It was not AS profitable is the correct way to phrase it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 5, 2020 17:25:53 GMT
It does beg the question as to the thought processes that went on when a flagship property got relegated to a lesser studio in the BioWare stable, while this unknown live service....oh well I guess that answers that. Since EA giveth no fucks about singleplayer until the narrative requires it, like Fallen Order and their play-it-safe band-aid solution to a greater problem with their exclusive stranglehold on Star Wars, it's no surprise that Mass Effect would get the short end of the stick from the start so that they could move on to greener, more monetized pastures.
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 5, 2020 17:33:28 GMT
Not profitable = not making money If it is in the way of much more profitable courses of action, if it is hindering profits, then it is not profitable. Some definitions. un·prof·it·a·ble (ŭn-prŏf′ĭ-tə-bəl) adj. 1. Bringing in no profit or profits: an unprofitable business venture. 2. Serving no useful purpose: an unprofitable argument. un·prof′it·a·bil′i·ty, un·prof′it·a·ble·ness n. un·prof′it·a·bly adv. unprofitable (ʌnˈprɒfɪtəbəl) adj 1. not making a profit 2. not fruitful or beneficialunˌprofitaˈbility, unˈprofitableness n unˈprofitably adv un•prof•it•a•ble (ʌnˈprɒf ɪ tə bəl) adj. 1. not showing or turning a profit. 2. pointless or futile.EA does not have infinite resources, so they are going to deem any game that is not turning enough profit to be a unprofitable course and change it. Their goal is after all to maximize profits. Making 2 dollars as opposed to 200 is not very desirable or a good way to operate a business. Some synonyms. unsuccessfulworthless nonprofit profitless unlucrativeunremunerative From what I have read Mass Effect: Andromeda barely made back more than its budget and under-performed in terms of predicted sales (and thus profits). So supporting it was not a profitable course compared to the alternatives. Again, splitting hairs. It's not good enough if it technically made money considering the budget and years in production.
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 5, 2020 17:42:38 GMT
Not profitable = not making money If it is in the way of much more profitable courses of action, if it is hindering profits, then it is not profitable. Some definitions. un·prof·it·a·ble (ŭn-prŏf′ĭ-tə-bəl) adj. 1. Bringing in no profit or profits: an unprofitable business venture. 2. Serving no useful purpose: an unprofitable argument. un·prof′it·a·bil′i·ty, un·prof′it·a·ble·ness n. un·prof′it·a·bly adv. unprofitable (ʌnˈprɒfɪtəbəl) adj 1. not making a profit 2. not fruitful or beneficialunˌprofitaˈbility, unˈprofitableness n unˈprofitably adv un•prof•it•a•ble (ʌnˈprɒf ɪ tə bəl) adj. 1. not showing or turning a profit. 2. pointless or futile.EA does not have infinite resources, so they are going to deem any game that is not turning enough profit to be a unprofitable course and change it. Their goal is after all to maximize profits. Making 2 dollars as opposed to 200 is not very desirable or a good way to operate a business. Some synonyms. unsuccessfulworthless nonprofit profitless unlucrativeunremunerative From what I have read Mass Effect: Andromeda barely made back more than its budget and under-performed in terms of predicted sales (and thus profits). So supporting it was not a profitable course compared to the alternatives. Again, splitting hairs. It's not good enough if it technically made money considering the budget and years in production. Why are you clinging to your argument so desperately? Just admit you used the wrong phrase and move on.... anyway, I'm done with this argument. It is going nowhere.
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 5, 2020 17:54:59 GMT
Why are you clinging to your argument so desperately? Just admit you used the wrong phrase and move on.... anyway, I'm done with this argument. It is going nowhere. I did not use the wrong phrase. I just gave you proof. You are using a narrow definition, I was using the broader definitions.
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 5, 2020 18:03:34 GMT
Why are you clinging to your argument so desperately? Just admit you used the wrong phrase and move on.... anyway, I'm done with this argument. It is going nowhere. I did not use the wrong phrase. I just gave you proof. You are using a narrow definition, I was using the broader definitions. Yet it was profitable. It was a success, even if it wasn't as much of one as they expected. So you are still wrong. By definition it was profitable... so saying it was not profitable is simply wrong.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 5, 2020 18:12:43 GMT
Anyone got any beers to go my popcorn? 🍿
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 5, 2020 18:21:46 GMT
I did not use the wrong phrase. I just gave you proof. You are using a narrow definition, I was using the broader definitions. Yet it was profitable. It was a success, even if it wasn't as much of one as they expected. So you are still wrong. By definition it was profitable... so saying it was not profitable is simply wrong. I literally gave you definitions and underlined the ones that supported my broader use of the term. Success is also a term with strict and broad definitions. If Andromeda had been a worthwhile success, then EA would have milked it for greater profits. Instead they decided it was not worth it and abandoned it. That to me, communicates that Andromeda was not a success. A successful game would have generated lots of paid DLC, increasing its profits. It was not a success, and it was not a profitable game to keep supporting.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 5, 2020 20:39:15 GMT
Damn. And I thought Fallout 76 was bad..... Do you ever say anything good here or is it just constant Bioware bashing? No, they don’t. They’re nothing but a troll. At least they dropped all the racist stuff they used to post.
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 5, 2020 20:57:34 GMT
Yet it was profitable. It was a success, even if it wasn't as much of one as they expected. So you are still wrong. By definition it was profitable... so saying it was not profitable is simply wrong. I literally gave you definitions and underlined the ones that supported my broader use of the term. Success is also a term with strict and broad definitions. If Andromeda had been a worthwhile success, then EA would have milked it for greater profits. Instead they decided it was not worth it and abandoned it. That to me, communicates that Andromeda was not a success. A successful game would have generated lots of paid DLC, increasing its profits. It was not a success, and it was not a profitable game to keep supporting. Yeah, no reason to respond to someone that can't admit they were wrong and keep clinging to a debunked statement.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 5, 2020 20:59:50 GMT
So, to translate this: it was deemed not profitable to continue support Andromeda, and so that support was stopped. It does not need to lose money to be "not profitable". If a different course brings in a lot more profitable, then the alternative is not profitable in comparison. Less profitable or not-profitable is splitting hairs. A lot of movies deemed failures by their studios ultimately drew a profit, but if that profit is tiny compared to the investment then it is a failure, especially when alternatives that bring in many times that investment are available. They dropped Andromeda because it was not good for profits. Not profitable = not making money ME:A was profitable by definition by all data we have been provided. So saying it was stopped because it wasn't profitable is false. It was not AS profitable is the correct way to phrase it. Actually from what I read it made ALOT of money. I just started replaying it and was suprised how much I liked it now that they fixed some of the facial animations. It is still my least favorite ME game but considering the ME trilogy (minue the last ten minutes of ME3) are my favorite games ever that is not a bad thing
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 5, 2020 21:00:52 GMT
I don't think you actually watched Fallout 76 gameplay videos or are at all familiar with Bethesda's approach to combat if you think this is remotely similar in quality, or in any way worse. And also: and then had butt sex with a group of Super Mutants. Uh...what?
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 5, 2020 21:03:19 GMT
And yet you can't use any of your team mates combos. And because most of them require significant points to have invested in them to get them to either prime or detonate is ham strings the hell out of someone playing a biotic early to mid game. Tech is far easier and more reliable even when trying to play a biotic character I ended up doing all the activities needed to get trophies and then just went back to my flame/Cloak/electric combo options because they covered all the bases. Because again any shield prevents biotics from working. As for the death peekaboo I spend the same amount of time in cover as I did in ME 1,2 and 3. Nothing about that changed. Every major fight was me sitting in cover shooting only when the Kett or Rokar popped their heads up. Even playing as a Vanguard I spent more time hiding in cover slowly stripping shields and health so I could at least use some biotic power combo.
ME2 and ME3 I was far more mobile as a Vanguard then I was as one in MEA.
Not trying to discount what you're saying, but, I have to post this xD What powers are those. That looks pretty fun.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Mar 5, 2020 21:04:30 GMT
And also: and then had butt sex with a group of Super Mutants. Uh...what? [br ] F76's combat, besides what the other guy said, it looks like it was anally gangbanged by a group of Super Mutants. 😆
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