The Geth Don't Deserve Sympathy

I just wanted to add that the final proof that the geth started being rational beings only with the Reaper upgrades is in one conversation with Legion. I couldn't find this conversation anywhere on YT but I found some lines of it in the ME3 script and all of you should remember it:



Not that it makes them worthless (the state in which they're free and cooperative is still achievable and desired) but I don't believe Rael'Zorah did anything wrong by principle experimenting on them – those weren't experiments on rational beings.

I agree with sassafrassa

The Geth are most definitely favored over the Quarians in the narrative, and it hinders what is otherwise one of the more interesting takes on AI in ME 2.

Then again, Chris L'Etoile always was a great intellectual writer for the series so that's no real surprise.

Getting back to the main point though, even as a person who is fascinated with decidedly non-human and otherwise 'alien' intelligences I could see the biased slant the games were presenting for these two species. I also agree that the games should have presented the 'awakening' of the Geth, and the outcome of the Morning War as a tragedy on both sides, rather than warmongering idiots who unjustly attacked the poor, innocent robots. 

It's funny that the narrative plays up the racism against the Krogan who have, by and large, been violent; or at the very least antagonistic; with the rest of the galaxy since the conclusion of the Rebellions (over one thousand years), while it casually overlooks the systematic persecution of the Quarians face, even by the government.

Krogan pirates and mercenaries are terrorizing Terminus space with brutal attacks, openly working with the likes of Batarian slavers. And yet, the Council maintains the Krogan memorial on the Presidium and they quietly ignore Krogan animosity; even amid threats of violence; out of 'respect'. The Quarians, on the other hand, are actively discriminated against. Being called 'suit rats' to their faces in casual conversation. Their embassy being kicked out of the Citadel. And the Council even threatening the Flotilla with military action when the Fleet tried to colonize an uninhabited world that wasn't even within the borders of Citadel Space.  


Personally I hated how the narrative treated the nature of Geth sapience in ME 3. They already were 'alive' before the Reaper upgrades, but suddenly becoming more human-like (with individuality) gives their species more "worth" in the eyes of the game I guess.

Shepard can casually leave the Rachni queen to die, or condemn the Hanar home world to Reaper invasion all while making a quip about the fate of those two species, but when the Geth and EDI become more 'human' they are automatically more deserving of preservation.  

I have to admit I never understood why the "ideal" outcome was to allow the Geth to have Reaper upgrades and then broker a peace with the Quarians that has the Geth connecting with the survival suits. It seemed like a recipe for disaster with me. Not only that but I had just done the sub-quest where I cleansed the Geth of the Reaper virus, only for Legion to want to upload another Reaper code to them. Then of course, if I take this option, I was later screwed over by the writers by being told that all that effort was for nothing if I wanted to destroy the Reapers because anything with Reaper technology would be eliminated along with them.

Subsequent play throughs I didn't bother. I stuck by my instincts that suggested Legion had been corrupted by his upgrades, so stopped him from uploading them to the rest and let the Quarians destroy the Geth and then destroyed the Reapers. EDI had already called the Reapers vile so it seemed like she would be happy with sacrificing herself to destroy them.

Yes, OP, there is a definite bias in the writing and the player is being manipulated into seeing it in a certain way that will lead you to select synthesis as being the best option.

It makes no sense though because Legion was perfectly rational in ME2 and the geth's actions during the Morning War, and since, are perfectly rational. Ultimately it bit them in the ass only because they underestimated their creators, but that just means they are not omnipotent. Otherwise that whole merciless isolationism was working out great for them. Though, I do wonder what they planned to do about the Reapers. Perhaps Saren was right and the Reapers intended to broker a deal with the geth, employing them to maintain the Citadel? It's not as if the geth couldn't do that while also having their Dyson Sphere and not otherwise incorporating Reaper tech.



Chris is a good writer and a genuine science fiction fan from what I can gather. I remember him posting in threads on the original Bioware forums back during the ME1 days. I recall him even foreshadowing some vague stuff about the players being surprised by what they may find when they go beyond the Perseus Veil. However, I think that he is biased in favor of AI. His statements on the Mass Effect wiki (I don't remember where) are pretty clear about it. I just wish he had another write to point this out to him because he doesn't present a very nuanced view. He's overlooking a lot.

Your point about the Council was something I forgot to bring up. In fact, the Council's behavior and nature is a topic for another thread that I think I will post tonight.



That would certainly be an interesting and heartbreaking twist. I'd have done it, I think. In my opinion the player ought to have been punished for failing to see through the Geth Propaganda in ME3. If you decide to trust the species that has been your enemy for three games, including siding with the Reapers in the current circumstances, then you deserve what comes to you. Don't get me wrong, I think the geth are cool as hell. They are among my favorite things about Mass Effect and that is precisely why it bothers me so much that the writers are not treating them fairly here. The geth are more compelling if they are not 100% sympathetic all the time. After all, it is easy to say that the geth have a right to exist when Legion is so cute and charming, but will you still argue that the geth have the right to existence when they prove themselves fundamentally hostile to you? Would you argue to save lice or rats or the mosquito or mangoworms from extinction? It's easy to be a champion for something appealing and friendly.




Oh I absolutely agree. The whole plot-line is poorly conceived. I mean, it is presented in dramatic terms so I think a lot of people overlook the logical inconsistencies and manipulation because they get caught up in the moment. Legion was all about the geth and every species forging their own path, so why rely on Reaper code? Perhaps it is just a matter of survival and Legion is not a zealot. That's fine, but then we ought to discuss that with him so the player can see that he's not being inconsistent and can themselves question whether or not we should be willing to compromise with our values for the sake of survival.

Were I to write the Rannoch plotline in ME3 I'd have done it very differently.




I think you misunderstood what I was talking about here. This is precisely the thing I am arguing about. The geth killed nearly the entire quarian race, every man, woman, and child who could not escape into space. That 99.9% they killed matters. I am not going to give the geth kudos for not finishing of the 0.1% that remained because as I explained in my post, it was in the geths' self interest to let them escape. Pursuing them would have meant war with the rest of the galaxy. The geth were not merciful.

Now, why did the first geth pick up a weapon? In defense of another geth that was about to be destroyed. Sorry, but the geth only stopped attacking the quarians when they were no longer a threat to them. Even then, the geth never left the Perseus Veil until the time frame of ME1. And even then it was only the sect of geth who joined Sovereign.

Let's put this in perspective. Imagine aliens came to Earth and started killing us. We fight back and somehow gain the upper hand. You can damn well bet humanity is going to pretty much drive those aliens to extinction. You want to make it seem like the geth were supposed to sit down and allow themselves to be destroyed even though you know that wouldn't be what happened if humanity was under attack. The quarians started the entire conflict and got their asses handed to them.

Reality is that the quarians could have settled somewhere else. They chose not to. From a new homeworld they could build themselves up again and perhaps find a way to either establish contact with the geth or attempt to retake Rannoch. Instead, they became "space gypsies".

No, I don't buy into your argument. It's flawed and ignores how humans would behave had we been under attack by another race that was trying to exterminate us. Or would you argue humans would be wrong for fighting back and destroying our enemies?

No, I don't get it. Why would the 1% of quarians left exterminate the other 99.9% of quarians? That makes absolutely no sense and has nothing AT ALL to do with what I posted.

So, no, I don't understand your post. You say the geth don't deserve sympathy. I call bullshit on it and you say I don't understand. What am I missing?

True, I didn't read it all. First thing you ought to know is that a wall of text is rarely read all the way through. It's too long. Be succinct and I'm honestly more likely to understand your point and know what I'm talking about when I respond.

The games give you two perspectives once ME2 came out. You have a choice. Personally as a paragon I unite both as renegade I destroy them. In fact you could start sympathizing with them in ME1. I understand their plight and sympathize with both the Geth and Quarians.

Actually they are but the Quarians role in it isnt sugar coated either.

Another very important thing is that it's the geth who survive if you try to achieve peace and fail. If this is not a bias then I don't know what is.

It paints them as evil robots at first in ME1 but there is more to them and it was the Quarians fault. I like the Quarians but they struck first.