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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 5, 2020 13:48:01 GMT
Those are selling points right up to when someone mentions exactly how the new gane would handle the trilogy's events I've said it before. If Mass Effect can continue, even after Shepard dies a second time in ME2, but not with that save file, why can't ME continue from ME3, but only with a Shepard alive save file. If you are OK with one, but not the other, that sets a double standard.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 10, 2020 23:03:49 GMT
Because communication is key. Andromeda 2 is not a selling point, Mass Effect isn't a selling point. Ryder isn't a selling point. Garrus is a selling point, however overused people may think he is, Wrex is a selling point, Tali is a selling point, Liara is such a selling point that they even had her in Andromeda. Honouring the ME2 crew, by actually having them in the game, is a selling point. Those are selling points right up to when someone mentions exactly how the new gane would handle the trilogy's events. After that, the whole idea looks bad. The series went to Andromeda for a reason. Well, that reason being "We torched the entire setting and badly divided the fanbase. But we think we can still cash in on the charred corpse that remains"
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 11, 2020 9:12:46 GMT
The divided part is obvious, but I've never understood the "torched the setting" thing. It's not like the MEU wouldn't be playable in post-Destroy or post-Control scenarios (I'm willing to write off post-Synthesis as too weird to be usable). The conceptual problem with doing so is that the worldstates are too divergent to make a game under any realistic budget without canonization, but that ship had already sailed way before Shepard reached the Citadel. ME3 had trouble handling the extant choices as it was, so I can see why the designers could have thought that they might as well go fully divergent; an ME4 couldn't handle previous choices properly whatever they did, so why not go all-in and let players really transform the setting?
But what's the point of relitigating this? Whatever we think about the ME3 design decisions, they are in the past. This thread is about MENext, right?
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Post by alanc9 on Jun 11, 2020 9:20:01 GMT
Those are selling points right up to when someone mentions exactly how the new gane would handle the trilogy's events I've said it before. If Mass Effect can continue, even after Shepard dies a second time in ME2, but not with that save file, why can't ME continue from ME3, but only with a Shepard alive save file. If you are OK with one, but not the other, that sets a double standard. Well, I've been pro-canonization all the way, so I'm not the best person to answer; we really need someone from the opposition to discuss this. And only permitting the high-EMS Destroy ending as an import does solve some obvious problems. The geth are always destroyed regardless of what happened at Rannoch, for instance.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 11, 2020 11:50:32 GMT
I've said it before. If Mass Effect can continue, even after Shepard dies a second time in ME2, but not with that save file, why can't ME continue from ME3, but only with a Shepard alive save file. If you are OK with one, but not the other, that sets a double standard. Well, I've been pro-canonization all the way, so I'm not the best person to answer; we really need someone from the opposition to discuss this. And only permitting the high-EMS Destroy ending as an import does solve some obvious problems. The geth are always destroyed regardless of what happened at Rannoch, for instance. Back in the day I was more against choosing an ending. At the end of the day there isn’t likely to be an import option so i’ve Very much gone to the if bioware has the will and passion to impose a fixed version of the Milky Way future that’s fine by me. Dead shep scenario makes more sense than resetting shep to day 1 factory settings though. It won’t affect my personal canon which i’ll Simply view as a parallel universe.
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Post by Iakus on Jun 11, 2020 13:17:30 GMT
The divided part is obvious, but I've never understood the "torched the setting" thing. It's not like the MEU wouldn't be playable in post-Destroy or post-Control scenarios (I'm willing to write off post-Synthesis as too weird to be usable). The conceptual problem with doing so is that the worldstates are too divergent to make a game under any realistic budget without canonization, but that ship had already sailed way before Shepard reached the Citadel. ME3 had trouble handling the extant choices as it was, so I can see why the designers could have thought that they might as well go fully divergent; an ME4 couldn't handle previous choices properly whatever they did, so why not go all-in and let players really transform the setting? But what's the point of relitigating this? Whatever we think about the ME3 design decisions, they are in the past. This thread is about MENext, right?Because setting another game directly following any of the endings is only going to remind people of that radioactive dumpster fire the literal magic wand left us with. Even Easter Egg Destroy, while undoubtedly the most popular ending, will still p*ss off a lot of the fan base. Not to mention it would send the message that "Your choices matter until we decide they don't" I have since come to the conclusion that imported endings are overrated nd more trouble than they are worth. They should be done away with. Make choices matter in the game they are in, then dump the baggage.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2020 17:01:25 GMT
I've said it before. If Mass Effect can continue, even after Shepard dies a second time in ME2, but not with that save file, why can't ME continue from ME3, but only with a Shepard alive save file. If you are OK with one, but not the other, that sets a double standard. Well, I've been pro-canonization all the way, so I'm not the best person to answer; we really need someone from the opposition to discuss this. And only permitting the high-EMS Destroy ending as an import does solve some obvious problems. The geth are always destroyed regardless of what happened at Rannoch, for instance. The only problem that solves is "Do I spend my money on this game?" since with the bolded the answer becomes a hard no.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 11, 2020 17:11:27 GMT
The divided part is obvious, but I've never understood the "torched the setting" thing. It's not like the MEU wouldn't be playable in post-Destroy or post-Control scenarios (I'm willing to write off post-Synthesis as too weird to be usable). The conceptual problem with doing so is that the worldstates are too divergent to make a game under any realistic budget without canonization, but that ship had already sailed way before Shepard reached the Citadel. ME3 had trouble handling the extant choices as it was, so I can see why the designers could have thought that they might as well go fully divergent; an ME4 couldn't handle previous choices properly whatever they did, so why not go all-in and let players really transform the setting? But what's the point of relitigating this? Whatever we think about the ME3 design decisions, they are in the past. This thread is about MENext, right? I'm willing to bet that if this hypothetical post-ME3 game was made, it would be a quasi-canonized world state, taking bits and pieces most favorable and just running with that, essentially being a kind of MEHEM-esque follow-up. It would be entertaining to see people piss and moan about this decision anyway.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 11, 2020 17:13:40 GMT
The divided part is obvious, but I've never understood the "torched the setting" thing. It's not like the MEU wouldn't be playable in post-Destroy or post-Control scenarios (I'm willing to write off post-Synthesis as too weird to be usable). The conceptual problem with doing so is that the worldstates are too divergent to make a game under any realistic budget without canonization, but that ship had already sailed way before Shepard reached the Citadel. ME3 had trouble handling the extant choices as it was, so I can see why the designers could have thought that they might as well go fully divergent; an ME4 couldn't handle previous choices properly whatever they did, so why not go all-in and let players really transform the setting? But what's the point of relitigating this? Whatever we think about the ME3 design decisions, they are in the past. This thread is about MENext, right? I'm willing to bet that if this hypothetical post-ME3 game was made, it would be a quasi-canonized world state, taking bits and pieces most favorable and just running with that, essentially being a kind of MEHEM-esque follow-up. It would be entertaining to see people piss and moan about this decision anyway. But it'll make for a grand viewing.😉 I'll get the popcorn.😁
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 11, 2020 17:19:16 GMT
The geth are always destroyed regardless of what happened at Rannoch, for instance. Even so, Bioware can bring the Geth back, if they want. They geth could have a few memory banks in systems without an active relay and therefore survived. Or the Quarians rebooted them. They can do anything they want.
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N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jun 11, 2020 17:27:23 GMT
Well, I've been pro-canonization all the way, so I'm not the best person to answer; we really need someone from the opposition to discuss this. And only permitting the high-EMS Destroy ending as an import does solve some obvious problems. The geth are always destroyed regardless of what happened at Rannoch, for instance.The only problem that solves is "Do I spend my money on this game?" since with the bolded the answer becomes a hard no. And magnify that by other major choices that players will insist on. For some, killing the geth is a deal-breaker. For others letting them survive is. Same with the genophage. Certain companions living or dying. Heck RGB alone will p*ss people off if their choice isn't the one canonized. This is why I say if they want to do another MW Mass Effect, they'll have to do a "Screw it, nothing was canon, the Shepard trilogy was a thousand different stories told in the dark ages after the Reaper War. No one knows the actual truth" Heck, one thing I actually LIKED about DAI is how it played with history and myth so people could come to their own conclusions regarding Andraste and the Herald.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 11, 2020 17:45:06 GMT
The only problem that solves is "Do I spend my money on this game?" since with the bolded the answer becomes a hard no. And magnify that by other major choices that players will insist on. For some, killing the geth is a deal-breaker. For others letting them survive is. Same with the genophage. Certain companions living or dying. Heck RGB alone will p*ss people off if their choice isn't the one canonized. This is why I say if they want to do another MW Mass Effect, they'll have to do a "Screw it, nothing was canon, the Shepard trilogy was a thousand different stories told in the dark ages after the Reaper War. No one knows the actual truth" Heck, one thing I actually LIKED about DAI is how it played with history and myth so people could come to their own conclusions regarding Andraste and the Herald. I disagree. I think it's much simpler than that. I believe a lot less people are invested in the endings and, as I've said before, you could say that the other endings achieved the final solution to all violence and nothing but prosperity remains as the future of the galaxy, forever. But destroy is fucked and more stories could be told in it. Like a CYOA novel, some branches end earlier, some have good endings that end fairly early and you can still explore other routes that may not even be that good. Example; everyone dies ending in the Suicide Mission in ME2. We already have precedent. And if you're OK with one and not the other, that's a double standard.
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N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,679 Likes: 2,554
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 11, 2020 17:51:27 GMT
The only problem that solves is "Do I spend my money on this game?" since with the bolded the answer becomes a hard no. And magnify that by other major choices that players will insist on. For some, killing the geth is a deal-breaker. For others letting them survive is. Same with the genophage. Certain companions living or dying. Heck RGB alone will p*ss people off if their choice isn't the one canonized. This is why I say if they want to do another MW Mass Effect, they'll have to do a "Screw it, nothing was canon, the Shepard trilogy was a thousand different stories told in the dark ages after the Reaper War. No one knows the actual truth" Heck, one thing I actually LIKED about DAI is how it played with history and myth so people could come to their own conclusions regarding Andraste and the Herald. I’d be more annoyed if they went your screw it route. Whereas i’d Have zero issues if they plumped for one of the endings that they felt was most interesting to explore plotwise. I’m not going to be importing a save so why should it matter if they think it’s more interesting to tell stories in a cured genophage alternate reality than Non cured etc.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2020 17:53:11 GMT
And magnify that by other major choices that players will insist on. For some, killing the geth is a deal-breaker. For others letting them survive is. Same with the genophage. Certain companions living or dying. Heck RGB alone will p*ss people off if their choice isn't the one canonized. This is why I say if they want to do another MW Mass Effect, they'll have to do a "Screw it, nothing was canon, the Shepard trilogy was a thousand different stories told in the dark ages after the Reaper War. No one knows the actual truth" Heck, one thing I actually LIKED about DAI is how it played with history and myth so people could come to their own conclusions regarding Andraste and the Herald. I disagree. I think it's much simpler than that. I believe a lot less people are invested in the endings and, as I've said before, you could say that the other endings achieved the final solution to all violence and nothing but prosperity remains as the future of the galaxy, forever. But destroy is fucked and more stories could be told in it. Like a CYOA novel, some branches end earlier, some have good endings that end fairly early and you can still explore other routes that may not even be that good. Example; everyone dies ending in the Suicide Mission in ME2. We already have precedent. And if you're OK with one and not the other, that's a double standard. I didn’t like how ME2 did that either. So now what?
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wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,679 Likes: 2,554
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 11, 2020 18:04:38 GMT
I feel there's equal post potential in a dystopian control or rebuilding destroy.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 11, 2020 18:27:45 GMT
For some, killing the geth is a deal-breaker. For others letting them survive is. Have them survive the red, but as time moves on, they start losing that code thing and eventually end up like they were before the code. Have where it was cured, but because it didn't have enough time to give it a full test, instead one out one thousand survive, it's 3,4 or 5 out one thousand that survive. Obviously Solas, Legion and Krios are gone. The sad news Massani won't return because his va, Robin Sachs(RIP), died years ago. Look at Goto. She won't return because she wants nothing more to do with big crazy end-of-the-galaxy thing. Taylor will be a father, and would want to stay to help raise the kid. Grunt will likely want to recruit and train new members for his platoon. Because of the red, the platform will go back to being a hologram. Javik will head to Thessia and teach the asari what their history really is. He eventually will become ruler and change the planets name to Prothia. Vega will likely want to see if he can get into the N7 program once it's rebuilt. He may even help them rebuild. He would also want to know about his uncle. Samara will stay with her daughter on Thessia. Lawson and Jack can be added to the roster. So that would put A/K, Vakarian, Tali, t'soni, Jack, Lawson. Basically all the LI squadmates. The crew wouldn't be hard. Traynor, Adams, Chakwas, Ken and Gabby, Felicia Hannigan, The Honorable Mr.Rupert Gardner, Moreau will return. Like that won't happen no matter what Bioware chooses to do. Overall, the guy did say the details have been lost over time. That's Bioware's get-out-of-jail-free card. They could do a remake if they really wanted with someone else telling the story to some kid. Bioware put that scene in for reason. Of course it doesn't mean they have to bring Shepard back or have a game with another main character in the Milky Way after the events of ME3.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jun 11, 2020 18:29:07 GMT
I didn’t like how ME2 did that either. So now what? Then you shouldn't accept ME3, either.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2020 18:31:55 GMT
For some, killing the geth is a deal-breaker. For others letting them survive is. Have them survive the red, but as time moves on, they start losing that code thing and eventually end up like they were before the code. Have where it was cured, but because it didn't have enough time to give it a full test, instead one out one thousand survive, it's 3,4 or 5 out one thousand that survive. Obviously Solas, Legion and Krios are gone. The sad news Massani won't return because his va, Robin Sachs(RIP), died years ago. Look at Goto. She won't return because she wants nothing more to do with big crazy end-of-the-galaxy thing. Taylor will be a father, and would want to stay to help raise the kid. Grunt will likely want to recruit and train new members for his platoon. Because of the red, the platform will go back to being a hologram. Javik will head to Thessia and teach the asari what their history really is. He eventually will become ruler and change the planets name to Prothia. Vega will likely want to see if he can get into the N7 program once it's rebuilt. He may even help them rebuild. He would also want to know about his uncle. Samara will stay with her daughter on Thessia. Lawson and Jack can be added to the roster. So that would put A/K, Vakarian, Tali, t'soni, Jack, Lawson. Basically all the LI squadmates. The crew wouldn't be hard. Traynor, Adams, Chakwas, Ken and Gabby, Felicia Hannigan, The Honorable Mr.Rupert Gardner, Moreau will return. Like that won't happen no matter what Bioware chooses to do. Overall, the guy did say the details have been lost over time. That's Bioware's get-out-of-jail-free card. They could do a remake if they really wanted with someone else telling the story to some kid. Bioware put that scene in for reason. Of course it doesn't mean they have to bring Shepard back or have a game with another main character in the Milky Way after the events of ME3. This scenario is terrible. Not only does it undo pretty much all of my choices, but the crew has all my favorite members and LI gone while only having those I'm indifferent towards or straight up don't like.
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N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,679 Likes: 2,554
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 11, 2020 18:39:11 GMT
Smearing all the endings into one homogenous gloop would be so laughable I think i’d Lose the remaining respect for bioware devs.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jun 11, 2020 18:57:00 GMT
Smearing all the endings into one homogenous gloop would be so laughable I think i’d Lose the remaining respect for bioware devs. I think I mostly lost respect for them after MEA and Anthem came out. That'd just be a final nail in the coffin. With saying "meh" and moving on.
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N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 21,081 Likes: 49,910
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Post by Iakus on Jun 11, 2020 18:59:29 GMT
Smearing all the endings into one homogenous gloop would be so laughable I think i’d Lose the remaining respect for bioware devs. It's either that, or canonize an ending. Both have their problems, and will p*ss off people, but if they ever want to set a Mass Effect game in the MW, that's the way it's gotta be. And tbf, ME1 and ME2 had their endings smeared into homogeneous gloop that ultimately meant practically nothing, so at least they have a lot more practice with this way...
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N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,679 Likes: 2,554
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Post by wright1978 on Jun 11, 2020 19:12:29 GMT
Smearing all the endings into one homogenous gloop would be so laughable I think i’d Lose the remaining respect for bioware devs. It's either that, or canonize an ending. Both have their problems, and will p*ss off people, but if they ever want to set a Mass Effect game in the MW, that's the way it's gotta be. and tbf, ME1 and ME2 had their endings smeared into homogrnous gloop that ultimately meant practically nothing, so at least they have a lot more practice with this way... Choosing a fixed ending is a lot less disrespectful imo and a lot less creatively bankrupt. sure it would annoy some who would demand their impossible import continue but it’s the most realistic way there’s a very big difference between me1/2 and what you are suggesting.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 11, 2020 19:13:31 GMT
This scenario is terrible. Not only does it undo pretty much all of my choices, but the crew has all my favorite members and LI gone while only having those I'm indifferent towards or straight up don't like. What Li is gone? You did romance Chambers, did you not? I have her appearing in the next game on the ship. What favorite crew members gone? Or do you mean squadmates? If anything Samara and Grunt could be added.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 11, 2020 20:04:16 GMT
This scenario is terrible. Not only does it undo pretty much all of my choices, but the crew has all my favorite members and LI gone while only having those I'm indifferent towards or straight up don't like. What Li is gone? You did romance Chambers, did you not? I have her appearing in the next game on the ship. What favorite crew members gone? Or do you mean squadmates? If anything Samara and Grunt could be added.
I don’t see her in your post. As for squad, we’ll my favorite squad mate was Legion so I know he won’t be back, but yeah our baby boy Grunt is up there.
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Post by themikefest on Jun 11, 2020 20:14:23 GMT
What Li is gone? You did romance Chambers, did you not? I have her appearing in the next game on the ship. What favorite crew members gone? Or do you mean squadmates? If anything Samara and Grunt could be added.
I don’t see her in your post. As for squad, we’ll my favorite squad mate was Legion so I know he won’t be back, but yeah our baby boy Grunt is up there. She is in my post. Remember her changing her name in ME3?
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