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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Sept 25, 2020 13:16:08 GMT
I wish they had told us what Anders name really was. I know I've already said this but it does bug me. I sort of feel this is something he would have revealed to his lover.
After all, Anders was the name given to him by others in the Circle when he refused to divulge his own name. He wanted to keep that part of his life for himself and they couldn't take it away from him so long as he didn't reveal his name. Although it is surprising that the Templars didn't even bother to find out his name when they dragged him away. Wouldn't they remember his mother calling after him as she surely did? You would think his name would be what was embroidered on his pillow but may be it was just a pretty design. Still in a way Anders was his slave name so why would he not have taken back his own name once he was free?
The only thing I can think of is that he was given his father's name and that is why he rejected it because his father was the one who betrayed him to the Circle. It is something I'm grappling with at the moment in my story because I can see him being asked about his name, which is not one usually found anywhere so if nothing else he might be asked its origins. I suppose that he can explain and of course his lover hasn't read WoT2, so perhaps they would just accept it without further explanation. Anders is Anders already. This reminds him to the Circle. I don't think, he wants to forget. He says: "the Circle shaped me" – he's not that kid anymore, whom the Templars arrested – and yes, his father betrayed him. It's absolutely possible, the Templars didn't ask for his name. Who cares? They did their duty, they transported him to the Circle. In the Circle he will tell his name. But he chose not to tell. But of course it is weird, he didn't tell his name to Hawke – if Hawke with him. (It is possible, they just forget it...) I can imagine one more thing: he's Anders, until the Circle exists. (But we can't ignore the fact: he didn't expect he will survive, and live to see the Circle's end) Just remember Fenris: he also chose to use "Fenris" – what Danarius gave him, not "Leto".
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 25, 2020 13:39:56 GMT
Just remember Fenris: he also chose to use "Fenris" – what Danarius gave him, not "Leto". I can just about understand this because he remembers so little of who he was when he was Leto. The procedure that gave him his markings pretty much erased his former life, so he was just Fenris and he gained his freedom by use of his powers, so that was Fenris. But of course it is weird, he didn't tell his name to Hawke – if Hawke with him Well of course you could argue it was something so private that only Hawke knew and never revealed that conversation to Varric. Since the story is told by Varric from his perspective, that would never come to light. You could argue the entry in WoT2 is the same. It isn't an out of world narrator but someone recording such information as they have discovered about each person in universe. Hence them having no record of Anders true name because the Circle was the primary source of their information and they didn't know it. So it is a very personal, intimate secret between Anders and Hawke, which is kind of cool. It doesn't help me much though with my story of Anders if I want him to reveal it at some point. I guess I'll have to come up with something I like. After all it isn't as though anyone can dispute it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 25, 2020 13:55:23 GMT
The Chantry intervened when Orlais got into conflict with Kirkwall as well (Perrin Threnhold). So: seems not an unprecedented that the Chantry supports Orlais – while the Chantry is "neutral"... I always think of it as the Orlesian Chantry. When it comes to a conflict of interests that involves Orlais, the Chantry invariably sides with the Empire over their opponent. Look at Ferelden during the occupation. I didn't blame Ferelden for wanting the Inquisition disbanded rather than placing it under the Divine as her private army, just Teagan's way of justifying it. Anything that Orlais wanted was best opposed but essentially if you went with the private army option you were just repeating history because that was exactly how the Chantry acquired the Seekers/Templar Order in the Divine Age. Obviously a pro-Chantry status quo sort of Inquisitor would be in favour of this but I wasn't. My Lavellan had met with Ameridan so he had no qualms about disbanding it. Besides Leliana encouraged him to even though she was the Divine and that was before we had the revelations from Solas. It is also why I prefer Leliana as Divine because she is actually trying to make it less political and more neutral in its outlook. "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's". The Church and the State should be separate and the Chantry can only be regarded as neutral if it truly is only concerned with matters spiritual and leaves government to the secular authorities. That doesn't mean the Divine shouldn't criticise a ruler if they are behaving in a unjust way. On the contrary I think they have a moral obligation to do this. What appalled me about Justinia is that she was encouraging Celene to put down the elven rebellion with violence, instead of insisting that justice should have been done publicly for the elven merchant whose murder by a noble started the revolt in the first place. If you get Leliana as Divine it is likely because Celene is already dead but if not I would have loved for her to have denounced her actions in Halamshiral even if she knew it was done with Justinia's approval
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 25, 2020 15:40:36 GMT
I liked how Yuri's real name was handled in Fire Emblem Three Houses. If Byleth decides to pursue relationship with him, Yuri will tell them his name, but only them. Even player doesn't know what his real name is, we're just left with knowledge that Byleth called him by his real name in private. So if they did something similar with romanced Anders, I'd be happy. Unfortunately, that ship has most likely sailed... If you get Leliana as Divine it is likely because Celene is already dead but if not I would have loved for her to have denounced her actions in Halamshiral even if she knew it was done with Justinia's approval I does sometimes feel like Celene is there for Vivienne, Gaspard for Cassandra and Briala for Leliana.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 25, 2020 16:01:02 GMT
does sometimes feel like Celene is there for Vivienne, Gaspard for Cassandra and Briala for Leliana. That does seem to be the way the Divine election works as well. Obviously there are other factors but Celene does greatly increase the chances of getting Vivienne. A case in point is where I conscripted the mages and all other choices being equal the only difference was whether Celene was ruler (with or without Briala) or Gaspard as Briala's puppet. With the former you get Vivienne, with the latter it was still possible to get Leliana or Cassandra. I'm pretty certain the reason that Leliana pushes for the Briala option is that she wants Celene overthrown for what she did to the elves of Halamshiral. She might have delivered the message from Justinia but it is clear from the narrative that she wasn't happy about doing so. You might not be able to totally tear down the established hierarchies in DAI but Leliana does let you mess with them in a most satisfying way.
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LadyofNemesis
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 25, 2020 17:06:53 GMT
does sometimes feel like Celene is there for Vivienne, Gaspard for Cassandra and Briala for Leliana. That does seem to be the way the Divine election works as well. Obviously there are other factors but Celene does greatly increase the chances of getting Vivienne. A case in point is where I conscripted the mages and all other choices being equal the only difference was whether Celene was ruler (with or without Briala) or Gaspard as Briala's puppet. With the former you get Vivienne, with the latter it was still possible to get Leliana or Cassandra. I'm pretty certain the reason that Leliana pushes for the Briala option is that she wants Celene overthrown for what she did to the elves of Halamshiral. She might have delivered the message from Justinia but it is clear from the narrative that she wasn't happy about doing so. You might not be able to totally tear down the established hierarchies in DAI but Leliana does let you mess with them in a most satisfying way. I do think that's a bit odd given the fact that Bioware has Cassandra as their default Divine (in the DA Keep anyway) with just Celene as ruler of Orlais
for my Vivienne Divine playthrough I had templar allies, Celene+Briala and Warden allies. in my canon playthrough (where Leliana is Divine) I have mage allies, three way truce and Warden allies. the DA Keep (with Cassandra as Divine) has mage allies, Celene alone and Warden allies
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 25, 2020 17:15:46 GMT
the DA Keep (with Cassandra as Divine) has mage allies, Celene alone and Warden allies I wouldn't take what the Keep shows for granted. I has a few strange quirks. Plus who knows, maybe they have bugged pt as default
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 25, 2020 17:18:06 GMT
You might not be able to totally tear down the established hierarchies in DAI but Leliana does let you mess with them in a most satisfying way. You mean that, if one wants to mess with the powers that be, Leliana is the most (or only?) saytisfying option. That doesn't mean the Divine shouldn't criticise a ruler if they are behaving in a unjust way. On the contrary I think they have a moral obligation to do this. Hmm... doesn't the Chantry already hold moral sway over mundane rulers? It all depends which morals the religions in question promotes. And how far they would get to "enforce" them. I do think that's a bit odd given the fact that Bioware has Cassandra as their default Divine (in the DA Keep anyway) with just Celene as ruler of Orlais I guess this was done because it is closest to the previous status quo. Celene keeps her throne and the "back to what we always did with a nicer paintjob" candidate gets the other throne.
Rascoth : You mean the most inconsistent and boring Inquisitor they could come up with?
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 25, 2020 17:35:01 GMT
the DA Keep (with Cassandra as Divine) has mage allies, Celene alone and Warden allies I wouldn't take what the Keep shows for granted. I has a few strange quirks. Plus who knows, maybe they have bugged pt as default I know, like...you can complete Sera's personal quest (the one with Harmond) and you can do that without recruiting her...I mean...that's not how it works Bioware I do think that's a bit odd given the fact that Bioware has Cassandra as their default Divine (in the DA Keep anyway) with just Celene as ruler of Orlais I guess this was done because it is closest to the previous status quo. Celene keeps her throne and the "back to what we always did with a nicer paintjob" candidate gets the other throne.
Rascoth : You mean the most inconsistent and boring Inquisitor they could come up with? Yeah...I mean, I love Cassandra...but Leliana as Divine is so much better ( Leliana: I'mma change everything )
Also aren't all the Bioware default heroes boring though?
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 25, 2020 17:45:02 GMT
I know, like...you can complete Sera's personal quest (the one with Harmond) and you can do that without recruiting her...I mean...that's not how it works Bioware L.M.F.A.O.... ahem. I knew that some characters are automatically regarded as friends by the keep if their personal quest is set to be done, unlike what can happen in-game, but that beats it. Now, I wonder if the game can "rescind" friendship. I had Cassandra on max, with scene triggered and all and then I started arguing with her about the Chantry... Yeah...I mean, I love Cassandra...but Leliana as Divine is so much better ( Leliana: I'mma change everything )
Also aren't all the Bioware default heroes boring though? Depends. It is kinda odd that they went with a Dalish for DAO (of course she dies... ), despite of all Cousland-related things in the main quests. (Howe, marrying Anora or Alistair...). But at least most of their choices are kinda consistent in a way, with the Dalish being a goody-two-shoes and Hawke doing mostly "pro-mage" choices. That Trevelyan is all over the place. Also, human. If I would want to mix races, I'd rather done Aeducan/mageHawke/Lavellan (the class Aeducan doesn't have, for variety).
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LadyofNemesis
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,827 Likes: 11,934
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 25, 2020 18:01:31 GMT
I know, like...you can complete Sera's personal quest (the one with Harmond) and you can do that without recruiting her...I mean...that's not how it works Bioware 1) L.M.F.A.O.... ahem. I knew that some characters are automatically regarded as friends by the keep if their personal quest is set to be done, unlike what can happen in-game, but that beats it. Now, I wonder if the game can "rescind" friendship. I had Cassandra on max, with scene triggered and all and then I started arguing with her about the Chantry... Yeah...I mean, I love Cassandra...but Leliana as Divine is so much better ( Leliana: I'mma change everything )
Also aren't all the Bioware default heroes boring though? 2) Depends. It is kinda odd that they went with a Dalish for DAO (of course she dies... ), despite of all Cousland-related things in the main quests. (Howe, marrying Anora or Alistair...). But at least most of their choices are kinda consistent in a way, with the Dalish being a goody-two-shoes and Hawke doing mostly "pro-mage" choices. That Trevelyan is all over the place. Also, human. If I would want to mix races, I'd rather done Aeducan/mageHawke/Lavellan (the class Aeducan doesn't have, for variety). 1) dunno...I'm going to try it out okay so went into the Keep...and apparently helping her out with the Seekers makes her a friend, because if you try to change it to not being her friend while having finished her personal quests then it says you can't.
2) what's also odd is that if you go with the default imports in DA2, a Human noble is the one called "Hero of Ferelden" the Dalish elf is called "martyr," and the last one with a Dwarf noble is called "no compromise" though interestingly some of the choices for the pre-built imports aren't the same as in the Keep (for example, in the Keep Connor is dead...but the martyr world state has him alive)
I do find your default more interesting then the one they went with, I'd say Aeducan Warrior, Mage Hawke and Rogue Lavellan (to keep with the default classes they already have) which would make the DA4 default a Qunari...now that'd be fun, but chances are Bioware will go with another elf in order to balance things out or whatever
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 25, 2020 19:06:35 GMT
1) Yeah that's what I meant. I should really get into save editing and, after doing a personal quest, drop the approval fo the character in question down to min. And then see what the epilogue has to say about that. 2) I also wondered about these changes. Well, that's just my idea for a "diverse" worldstate (You that I'm boring and predictable in terms of clas/race choice). I feel that, while Dalish PCs in DAO are far better written than in DAI, the latter has more at stake for them, while the Grey Warden/Blight is a thing for dwarves, given they face the uglies on a daily basis. Even a noble never leaving the Diamond Quarters cannot ignore them completely.
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LadyofNemesis
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 25, 2020 19:19:49 GMT
1) Yeah that's what I meant. I should really get into save editing and, after doing a personal quest, drop the approval fo the character in question down to min. And then see what the epilogue has to say about that. 2) I also wondered about these changes. Well, that's just my idea for a "diverse" worldstate (You that I'm boring and predictable in terms of clas/race choice). I feel that, while Dalish PCs in DAO are far better written than in DAI, the latter has more at stake for them, while the Grey Warden/Blight is a thing for dwarves, given they face the uglies on a daily basis. Even a noble never leaving the Diamond Quarters cannot ignore them completely. 1) I'd say go for it, and let me know how it went...for science
2) yeah, my own world states are a bit more on the boring side...since I'm not that fond of playing dwarves (still love them, just don't like playing them) but it might be fun to try a world state with more diverse characters at some point...*makes note* also, I've yet to finish a game with a dwarf noble as well...
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 25, 2020 19:34:21 GMT
I do think that's a bit odd given the fact that Bioware has Cassandra as their default Divine (in the DA Keep anyway) with just Celene as ruler of Orlais I must admit I was just guessing that it didn't matter if Briala was with Celene or not. My run getting Vivienne was when I reconciled the two of them and I just assumed it would have been the same with Celene on her own. It does make sense that their default would be absolutely retaining the status quo. So Celene is still Empress, the Wardens are still in Orlais and Cassandra is Divine. Whilst I can just stomach having Celene with Briala, there is no way I'd have her on her own because of what she did to the elves. There is just enough edge to Briala's voice when you reconcile them that I think Briala is going to make her pay in the long run by doing everything she wants her to or else. Hmm... doesn't the Chantry already hold moral sway over mundane rulers? It all depends which morals the religions in question promotes. And how far they would get to "enforce" them. I suppose it depends what you mean by moral sway? I haven't seen any evidence of the Chantry actually denouncing anyone in public for their behaviour. Of course, they ignore the moral teaching of the Chant when it suits them anyway because most of them are hand in glove with the local nobles, particularly in Orlais. Take the behaviour of the Chevaliers towards the masses. That ought to be something the Chantry openly criticises because you can't tell me they don't know what they get up to but the nobility love them, so the Chantry turns a blind eye. That is what so angers me about their attitude to mages as though they are the only ones the Chant of Light is talking about when it comes to abuse of power. Then you have that codex about some guy who went round slaughtering elves because he enjoyed it and he ended up being made an Anointed of the Chantry, which is their equivalent of a saint. Then in Masked Empire someone puts on a salacious play using the prophet Andraste and casting horrible and wholly unfounded implications on her friendship with Shartan but all the people are angry about is the political message about Celene favouring the elves, not the insult and to my mind blasphemy (if you consider her semi-divine, which they do) concerning Andraste. If they had done that in our Middle Ages, which is the sort of period this is meant to mirror, everyone connected with the play would have been strung up by the populace and denounced by the Church. After all people can hardly get away with that sort of thing in our modern society without someone getting upset. Yet apparently in the Thedas world, it is just considered all part of the Game. I gather that Drakon did try to do away with the Game but it would seem once he died, it resumed as before. If the Chantry had denounced it regularly in their services it might have made a different but of course they support the notion that the nobility rule by divine right and so are beyond reproach. Essentially Orlesian society is morally bankrupt in my mind. Mind you Antiva isn't much better and according to Zevran they are very devout too. So clearly the Chantry is morally bankrupt in those countries as well.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Sept 26, 2020 3:32:44 GMT
1) Yeah that's what I meant. I should really get into save editing and, after doing a personal quest, drop the approval fo the character in question down to min. And then see what the epilogue has to say about that. 2) I also wondered about these changes. Well, that's just my idea for a "diverse" worldstate (You that I'm boring and predictable in terms of clas/race choice). I feel that, while Dalish PCs in DAO are far better written than in DAI, the latter has more at stake for them, while the Grey Warden/Blight is a thing for dwarves, given they face the uglies on a daily basis. Even a noble never leaving the Diamond Quarters cannot ignore them completely. 1) I'd say go for it, and let me know how it went...for science
2) yeah, my own world states are a bit more on the boring side...since I'm not that fond of playing dwarves (still love them, just don't like playing them) but it might be fun to try a world state with more diverse characters at some point...*makes note* also, I've yet to finish a game with a dwarf noble as well...
1) You know, all this reading (elsewhere) about DAI and DA2 (here) really makes me want to set up the games again. Will probably try to set up DA2 in the next few days. (Keyword: Try. I've got DVD budget version still using the shitty release date checker). Also got an Andromeda copy ready. But... I'm really afraid of ruining my new 10-month old PC with Origin. 2) Bah, you get the diversity points. I'm just running robes with knife-ears. Not sure if I'll ever come to actually play my hypothetical Alistair-manipulating Aeducan princess. The one DAI muggle I have made and played for real is dwarf though. I don't play humans if I don't have to. Though I once though about some Trevelyan patterned after Katherine "Katrina" Morgan Steiner-Davion of Battletech fame ("I don't want him neutral, I want him dead. I want you to destroy my brother and everyone that follows him. Then I want you to round up everyone that supports him and make an example of them, too!"). Would probably end up as a discount Meredith though, minus the faith BS.
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 26, 2020 9:48:17 GMT
I usually play elves or elf mages but I have to admit that dual wielding rogue was fun to play in both DAO and DA2. I hated it in DAI but played an archer instead when I wasn't a mage. My favourite specialism in DAO was Arcane Warrior because it is the nearest you can get to the hybrid Warrior/Mage of DND. However, I have played all the origin stores in DAO, if nothing else for the insights it gives about the various communities. Also, whilst I left playing a Cousland noble until around my 4th play through, I did enjoy the challenge of role playing him in a way that justified his rather self-serving actions, for example deciding early on that he would make a far better King than Alistair so making totally pragmatic choices with regard to Loghain and putting Anora on the throne, marrying her but keeping Zevran as his lover. There is nothing like having your own personal assassin.
Of course opting to be either an elf or a mage or both, I was always going to butt heads against Chantry teaching and follow my own version of Andrastriasm if at all. That's why I so enjoy having Leliana as Divine. However, I did rather enjoy my male mage Lavellan who accepted the title of Herald of Andraste, not because he believe a word of it but it amused him making all these judgments in the name of the Maker. He still claimed the role of Inquisitor in the name of the elves though. What was so amusing is that the way the game mechanics work it means that it seemed like he had totally convinced everyone of his sincerity. Vivienne thought he was wonderful because he decorated the hall with Chantry heraldry and said all the right things to her, whilst doing the complete opposite. He still ended up with Leliana as Divine so I wonder at what point the penny dropped with Vivienne that he had been playing her all along.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,827 Likes: 11,934
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 26, 2020 9:59:46 GMT
1) I'd say go for it, and let me know how it went...for science
2) yeah, my own world states are a bit more on the boring side...since I'm not that fond of playing dwarves (still love them, just don't like playing them) but it might be fun to try a world state with more diverse characters at some point...*makes note* also, I've yet to finish a game with a dwarf noble as well...
1) You know, all this reading (elsewhere) about DAI and DA2 (here) really makes me want to set up the games again. Will probably try to set up DA2 in the next few days. (Keyword: Try. I've got DVD budget version still using the shitty release date checker). Also got an Andromeda copy ready. But... I'm really afraid of ruining my new 10-month old PC with Origin. 2) Bah, you get the diversity points. I'm just running robes with knife-ears. Not sure if I'll ever come to actually play my hypothetical Alistair-manipulating Aeducan princess. The one DAI muggle I have made and played for real is dwarf though. I don't play humans if I don't have to. Though I once though about some Trevelyan patterned after Katherine "Katrina" Morgan Steiner-Davion of Battletech fame ("I don't want him neutral, I want him dead. I want you to destroy my brother and everyone that follows him. Then I want you to round up everyone that supports him and make an example of them, too!"). Would probably end up as a discount Meredith though, minus the faith BS. 2) I once had the idea for a very boring human female mage only world state I've quite quickly stepped away from that since that became boring quite quickly, mostly because all three of them are somewhat the same Amell > mage from a noble family (but unaware of this as far as we know) Hawke > mage from a commoner family who becomes a noble 'cause mommy says so Trevelyan > mage from a noble family, aware of this and can use this to their advantage
my world states since have been somewhat more entertaining and diverse, especially my current canon
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 26, 2020 10:37:11 GMT
've quite quickly stepped away from that since that became boring quite quickly, mostly because all three of them are somewhat the same Don't forget that every human origin up to now has been noble. That has been somewhat infuriating I feel. I mean Hawke might have started out a noble but it turned out Mummy was a noble and so once they recovered the family mansion and title everyone, including Duke Prosper, acknowledged them as a noble. Can you imagine a snooty Orlesian being willing to have someone who only achieved nobility because they were a grubby little social climber? That is why Bethany was able to have regular visits in the Circle or be allowed out on special dispensation to attend events like Duke Prosper's hunt, because the children of nobles are treated entirely differently in the Circle. Bethany and Emile were able to have contact with their families after being taken there. Anders and Ella were dragged off and never saw them again. You can bet anything you like that the children of nobles aren't made tranquil or abused by the Templars. Vivienne might not have been noble herself but she acquired the patronage of a noble and that made all the difference. Bethany may have found Alric creepy but he wouldn't have dared touch her. If the children of nobles had been given exactly the same experience as those of commoners, I'm pretty certain the Circle system would never have survived in its current form as long as it did. As it is the Circle pretty much reflected the way in which nobles treat commoners on the outside, particularly in Orlais but anywhere outside of Ferelden. Since many Templars are the younger sons, often the reprobates of the family, who they offload on the Chantry, it is hardly surprising their attitude towards commoner mages reflects that of the nobles on the outside.
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LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 26, 2020 11:20:03 GMT
've quite quickly stepped away from that since that became boring quite quickly, mostly because all three of them are somewhat the same Don't forget that every human origin up to now has been noble. That has been somewhat infuriating I feel. I mean Hawke might have started out a noble but it turned out Mummy was a noble and so once they recovered the family mansion and title everyone, including Duke Prosper, acknowledged them as a noble. Can you imagine a snooty Orlesian being willing to have someone who only achieved nobility because they were a grubby little social climber? That is why Bethany was able to have regular visits in the Circle or be allowed out on special dispensation to attend events like Duke Prosper's hunt, because the children of nobles are treated entirely differently in the Circle. Bethany and Emile were able to have contact with their families after being taken there. Anders and Ella were dragged off and never saw them again. You can bet anything you like that the children of nobles aren't made tranquil or abused by the Templars. Vivienne might not have been noble herself but she acquired the patronage of a noble and that made all the difference. Bethany may have found Alric creepy but he wouldn't have dared touch her.
If the children of nobles had been given exactly the same experience as those of commoners, I'm pretty certain the Circle system would never have survived in its current form as long as it did. As it is the Circle pretty much reflected the way in which nobles treat commoners on the outside, particularly in Orlais but anywhere outside of Ferelden. Since many Templars are the younger sons, often the reprobates of the family, who they offload on the Chantry, it is hardly surprising their attitude towards commoner mages reflects that of the nobles on the outside. Yeah, which is why I sincerely hope that the human character in DA4 is a commoner nobody...they are loads more fun to play I mean, I didn't know how much fun Tabris was until I played one...they're commoners of the lowest rank (only slightly above the Dwarf casteless I belief) who work their way up the old-fashioned way. Hard work, without getting anything in return. The first time I finished my Tabris and Alistair named her Bann of the Alienage I almost cried.
Trevelyan can tell Josephine that they were treated quite well due to the standing of their family (nobles and devout Andrastians), if Trevelyan hadn't had that type of backing...well, imagine how different their story could've been. Which makes me wonder...maybe the reason Amell is treated so well is also because they're a noble? Though that leaves Surana who gets the same treatment...and I doubt they were nobility
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 26, 2020 13:47:13 GMT
've quite quickly stepped away from that since that became boring quite quickly, mostly because all three of them are somewhat the same Don't forget that every human origin up to now has been noble. That has been somewhat infuriating I feel. I mean Hawke might have started out a noble but it turned out Mummy was a noble and so once they recovered the family mansion and title everyone, including Duke Prosper, acknowledged them as a noble. Can you imagine a snooty Orlesian being willing to have someone who only achieved nobility because they were a grubby little social climber? That is why Bethany was able to have regular visits in the Circle or be allowed out on special dispensation to attend events like Duke Prosper's hunt, because the children of nobles are treated entirely differently in the Circle. Bethany and Emile were able to have contact with their families after being taken there. Anders and Ella were dragged off and never saw them again. You can bet anything you like that the children of nobles aren't made tranquil or abused by the Templars. Vivienne might not have been noble herself but she acquired the patronage of a noble and that made all the difference. Bethany may have found Alric creepy but he wouldn't have dared touch her. If the children of nobles had been given exactly the same experience as those of commoners, I'm pretty certain the Circle system would never have survived in its current form as long as it did. As it is the Circle pretty much reflected the way in which nobles treat commoners on the outside, particularly in Orlais but anywhere outside of Ferelden. Since many Templars are the younger sons, often the reprobates of the family, who they offload on the Chantry, it is hardly surprising their attitude towards commoner mages reflects that of the nobles on the outside. When you think about it, humans are the only ones with so little variety in origin. Elves could get city elf or Dalish, dwarves had casteless and noble in first, then surfacer in third game (which pretty much covers 3 main origins of dwarves we could get, though I suppose we could get Kal-Sharok origin as we go north). True, we got only one qunari origin (Vashoth), but that's because they were option in only one game (and the only other viable option I see is Tal-Vashoth, since as interesting as it might sound for some, playing Qunari would greatly limit rp options). Comparing to that, noble as humans only origin in all three games... it's sad. I really wish Hawke's status in DA2 post-Act I was result of wealth accumulated thanks to Deep Roads expedition and not their return to nobility. And agreed on treatment of noble-born mages in the Circle. Their fate is still terrible, but not as terrible as those that don't have the right family name or patron to at least partially protect them.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 26, 2020 14:00:07 GMT
When you think about it, humans are the only ones with so little variety in origin. Elves could get city elf or Dalish, dwarves had casteless and noble in first, then surfacer in third game (which pretty much covers 3 main origins of dwarves we could get, though I suppose we could get Kal-Sharok origin as we go north). True, we got only one qunari origin (Vashoth), but that's because they were option in only one game (and the only other viable option I see is Tal-Vashoth, since as interesting as it might sound for some, playing Qunari would greatly limit rp options). Comparing to that, noble as humans only origin in all three games... it's sad. I really wish Hawke's status in DA2 post-Act I was result of wealth accumulated thanks to Deep Roads expedition and not their return to nobility.And agreed on treatment of noble-born mages in the Circle. Their fate is still terrible, but not as terrible as those that don't have the right family name or patron to at least partially protect them. isn't Hawke's circumstance a mix of both though? Their mother petitions the Viscount to get the noble name Amell back, which Hawke buys by using their earnings from the Expedition though technically it's "noble family Hawke" now, only Leandra (and various other npc's) still calls it the Amell family Which is something Hawke can point out to her in dialogue
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but in all seriousness...I'd love for the DA4 (human) protagonist to be a nobody at the start, and still be somewhat a nobody by the end have them be 'somebody' in the middle, but due to circumstances have them loose their wealth and influence and have them get back to almost zero at the end, and be damn glad about it too. 'Cause I don't want to play some character who whines about "how they lost everything they worked for" Let them safe the world (or ruin it) give a thumbs up or flip the bird and say something like "welp, time to go home"
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Post by Rascoth on Sept 26, 2020 14:08:26 GMT
When you think about it, humans are the only ones with so little variety in origin. Elves could get city elf or Dalish, dwarves had casteless and noble in first, then surfacer in third game (which pretty much covers 3 main origins of dwarves we could get, though I suppose we could get Kal-Sharok origin as we go north). True, we got only one qunari origin (Vashoth), but that's because they were option in only one game (and the only other viable option I see is Tal-Vashoth, since as interesting as it might sound for some, playing Qunari would greatly limit rp options). Comparing to that, noble as humans only origin in all three games... it's sad. I really wish Hawke's status in DA2 post-Act I was result of wealth accumulated thanks to Deep Roads expedition and not their return to nobility.And agreed on treatment of noble-born mages in the Circle. Their fate is still terrible, but not as terrible as those that don't have the right family name or patron to at least partially protect them. isn't Hawke's circumstance a mix of both though? Their mother petitions the Viscount to get the noble name Amell back, which Hawke buys by using their earnings from the Expedition though technically it's "noble family Hawke" now, only Leandra (and various other npc's) still calls it the Amell family Which is something Hawke can point out to her in dialogue It is mix of both, but that doesn't change the fact that we are noble-born, not complete nobody that fought their way to the top.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Sept 26, 2020 14:17:42 GMT
It is mix of both, but that doesn't change the fact that we are noble-born, not complete nobody that fought their way to the top. True enough...which would've made the story that much more interesting if that had been the case
ah well, as I said...here's hoping for DA4
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Post by gervaise21 on Sept 26, 2020 18:08:38 GMT
'Cause I don't want to play some character who whines about "how they lost everything they worked for" That reminds me of the first time I played DAI and I had messed up on the Wycombe war table plot so my entire clan had been wiped out. I was just leaving the War Table Room feeling pretty despondent and called off at Josephine when she promptly started to moan about her problems and how hard her family worked. So there she is in silk and satin and I'm from the Dalish where every day was a battle to survive and I really wanted to say "What are you complaining about you prissy princess? You've had is easy. I've just lost my entire family". Okay since the people never acknowledge your loss in the main game, the timing was just unfortunate but I have to admit I still don't think Josie really knows what hard work is. I certainly won't play a human in DA4 if they make them noble background again, even if their family has fallen on hard times and that is why we have nothing. Let them be a true nobody. Still as I usually play elves I am likely going to be at the bottom of the heap again and working my way up. That suits me just fine.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 26, 2020 18:15:36 GMT
but I have to admit I still don't think Josie really knows what hard work is. She’s having to constantly deal with a continuously shifting political and economic landscape, dealing with dozens of various groups that all want different things without alienating any of them in order to keep the Inquisition fed, armed, and countless other ways to stay alive. She knows what hard work is.
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