melbella
N7
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
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Post by melbella on Oct 24, 2020 22:51:09 GMT
Personally, I thought playing a mage in DA2 was the most fun. I cannot express how awesome Force Magic was. Not only was it unique but badass. And seeing Templars get slammed to the ground, glorious! Yeah that is right you dirty templar eat that floor and like it! I felt the same way. I got such satisfaction about pulling them into a nice heap and then slamming them with Fist of the Maker. There was a lovely irony there.
I like doing that to everyone, not just templars.
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Cantina
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Vive la révolution mages!
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Vive la révolution mages!
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Post by Cantina on Oct 25, 2020 3:36:53 GMT
I felt the same way. I got such satisfaction about pulling them into a nice heap and then slamming them with Fist of the Maker. There was a lovely irony there.
I like doing that to everyone, not just templars. Shame I could not use it on my ex-husband ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png)
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Post by Catilina on Oct 25, 2020 11:46:29 GMT
CantinaI quite like the conception of Anders/Justice, but I see your points, yes, it would be nice, if it is clear: at the end he decides, the open revolution is the only way – there can no peace. His conversations in Awakening with Justice + his conversation with Isabela make it clear: he already sees, he should do something for his fellows. Justice convinced him, even before the merging. Also: I see the intentions of the writers: "being abomination is always wrong" – like with Wynne as well, in Asunder... But: to me both just proved, the merging can be fruitful. Anders kept his sanity – I saw him quite sane in the middle of the madness and bloodstorm. And Wynne in Asunder FINALLY did something reasonable, not just parroted that nonsense about the slow reforms, and that the mages should earn the trust... The furious Wynne is the reasonable – that "wise gramma" is not really wise, but has delusions. At the end she realized it...
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 25, 2020 15:32:37 GMT
I quite like the conception of Anders/Justice, Also: I see the intentions of the writers: "being abomination is always wrong" The second part is the problem. I have nothing wrong with Anders and Justice as a partnership because I've only experienced Anders in game on the friendship path, apart from one run on rivalry path when I had nothing more to do with him after Act 2. I had to go to You Tube to see what happens in Act 3 if you are in rivalry with him. However, the very fact that his writer felt that the Rivalry path is better for Anders shows the point they were trying to make. Then when you learn that she really wanted to have it that both we as the players and Anders was totally tricked by some random demon, it is obvious that the message she wanted to give was a negative one. Whilst the rest of her team decided against going that far, it is clear that Anders was being made the fall guy for the message throughout DA2 that mages are a constant threat because of possession. As I've also pointed out, it is not possible to really split out the issue with possession from the issue of mage freedom with rivalry. I could be wrong about this but it seemed to me that you cannot be pro mage freedom if you want to rival Anders. Which suggests that the writer was also trying to push you in the direction that keeping mages in Circles is necessary for the safety of the general population. This seems not to have just been confined to Anders' writer either if DG wanted to highlight the "mage doom" aspect of Thedas and the comments put in Varric's mouth by his writer concerning your decision at the end. Yet the stupid part is that as Cantina and I have stressed, there is no good reason why Anders could not have held the views he did and acted throughout as he did without the addition of Justice to complicate the issues. At the end of the day, what exactly did Justice bring to the partnership? On the friendship path we seldom see him because, as Anders said, he is the dominant partner in the Waking World, so Justice only emerges when Anders is angry or feels threatened, so Anders is very much responsible for his own actions. Only on the rivalry path do we encounter Justice apparently taking control and the suggestion this is dominating Anders. Even so, it is only in his short story that the "abomination" ever runs out of control, replicating the sort of violence that is alleged for other mage abominations. To be honest, I always found the story of Meredith's sister to be somewhat exaggerated considering how easily our PC is able to put down the average abomination in all three games, which after all is what Meredith's sister would have been. She would appear to have been possessed by a fear demon at the moment the Templars are coming down the street to take her in and yet managed to kill 70 people before they managed to stop her. Just how effective are Templars at controlling magical monstrosities if Amelia's abomination could do this much damage when they were actually on hand to prevent it? That was also the problem with the entire plot of DA2. Kirkwall was said to be the main centre for the Templars in the Freemarches, so their number are greater here than anywhere else, yet they were terrible at controlling magical threats in the city and the more Meredith had a stranglehold on the secular rule as well, the worse they seemed to become at their actual job. If the writers were trying to convince me of the necessity for putting Templars in charge of mages, they did a very bad job of it.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 25, 2020 17:05:37 GMT
I quite like the conception of Anders/Justice, Also: I see the intentions of the writers: "being abomination is always wrong" The second part is the problem. I have nothing wrong with Anders and Justice as a partnership because I've only experienced Anders in game on the friendship path, apart from one run on rivalry path when I had nothing more to do with him after Act 2. I had to go to You Tube to see what happens in Act 3 if you are in rivalry with him. However, the very fact that his writer felt that the Rivalry path is better for Anders shows the point they were trying to make. Then when you learn that she really wanted to have it that both we as the players and Anders was totally tricked by some random demon, it is obvious that the message she wanted to give was a negative one. Whilst the rest of her team decided against going that far, it is clear that Anders was being made the fall guy for the message throughout DA2 that mages are a constant threat because of possession. As I've also pointed out, it is not possible to really split out the issue with possession from the issue of mage freedom with rivalry. I could be wrong about this but it seemed to me that you cannot be pro mage freedom if you want to rival Anders. Which suggests that the writer was also trying to push you in the direction that keeping mages in Circles is necessary for the safety of the general population. This seems not to have just been confined to Anders' writer either if DG wanted to highlight the "mage doom" aspect of Thedas and the comments put in Varric's mouth by his writer concerning your decision at the end. Yet the stupid part is that as Cantina and I have stressed, there is no good reason why Anders could not have held the views he did and acted throughout as he did without the addition of Justice to complicate the issues. At the end of the day, what exactly did Justice bring to the partnership? On the friendship path we seldom see him because, as Anders said, he is the dominant partner in the Waking World, so Justice only emerges when Anders is angry or feels threatened, so Anders is very much responsible for his own actions. Only on the rivalry path do we encounter Justice apparently taking control and the suggestion this is dominating Anders. Even so, it is only in his short story that the "abomination" ever runs out of control, replicating the sort of violence that is alleged for other mage abominations. To be honest, I always found the story of Meredith's sister to be somewhat exaggerated considering how easily our PC is able to put down the average abomination in all three games, which after all is what Meredith's sister would have been. She would appear to have been possessed by a fear demon at the moment the Templars are coming down the street to take her in and yet managed to kill 70 people before they managed to stop her. Just how effective are Templars at controlling magical monstrosities if Amelia's abomination could do this much damage when they were actually on hand to prevent it? That was also the problem with the entire plot of DA2. Kirkwall was said to be the main centre for the Templars in the Freemarches, so their number are greater here than anywhere else, yet they were terrible at controlling magical threats in the city and the more Meredith had a stranglehold on the secular rule as well, the worse they seemed to become at their actual job. If the writers were trying to convince me of the necessity for putting Templars in charge of mages, they did a very bad job of it. Yes, I think they scored an own goal with Amelia's story, and even with "the Kirkwall's mad blood mages" – who didn't really attacked civils but Templars (except Quentin, but he was a serial killer, and was not a part of the war – still they weren't able to catch him... BUT Meredith punished the ONLY capable Templar for the investigation...), it shows the Templars' helplessness and, as such: their absolute un-necessity or/and their danger(!) ... they weren't able to handle the problem (in fact they caused many problems), but: HAWKE successfully handled it – and Wynne (true, with a spirit's help – being "abomination" is NOT that bad...) and some mages – in the Broken Circle quest. About Anders/Justice: I said, it's wrong to attribute the whole "extremism"-thing (especially it was NOT extremism) to Justice – because Anders was absolutely ready to fight after he just spoke with Justice in Awakening. And this is clear after what happened to Karl. (Remember the rare-heard part of the conversation between him and the Warden: "You're right, I should have a harem, a banquet and the ability to rain down fireballs on every Templar in creation." Well, NOT the Templars are the real target, but the Chantry's whole system, The Templars are just the Chantry's arm. (Maybe this was the Justice-part? I'm not really sure about as well: Anders is able to see the whole, but still Justice can help to see.) BUT: Anders was not altruistic – while helping people was not that far from him (he comes back to help fighting, if the Warden send him away at first). But to heal people for free in the Darktown? For years? It would be nice character arc – but that quick and great change? When it happened – if not Justice's presence caused? (Anders says, Justice doesn't let him be selfish – and sometimes it misses to him – this can be his dedication of heal Darktown people – this is like: you should help people who were abandoned unjustly, because of the nobles, the Chantry, the Darkspawn, Justice's first target in the mortal world. Justice left the Wardens and his goal against the Darkspawn (after he took revenge for Kristoff...), but what about if he still thinks, the goal still there, and Anders can help in it – as he can help to Anders... (Maybe I went too far). I think, Justice gave plus to the story. To them, as I already wrote: "being abomination is bad" – to me: being abomination can help. Also: was a very interesting idea. And I'm glad the story allowed us to see this part as well. Well: I can see, that even if Anders helps only as Anders, and didn't have Justice – the end result would be: he's a zealot extremist, true, didn't become an "abomination" like the other mage... but a simple mage still more dangerous than a non-mage... (Friendly reminder: Meredith and the dancing sculptures...). Like Fiona was not an "abomination" but they painted her "idiot", "extremist" – as opposed to Viviene, (who - of course - is calm and sober... and despises and tries to make idiot from everyone who thinks, the rebellion was right...) and Minaeve ... who LOVED the Circle and was grateful to the Templars ... and even the rebel mages, who REGRETTED the rebellion, because the rebellion didn ' t bring anything but death and blood and everyone would be happy to get back their chains ... (what a bullshit - but the Inquisition all about it ...) – were painted as "good, wise mages". About the "bad writing" – many people think, the writer are –like some gods– over the criticism, and the holy canon doesn't allow the alternative explanations. But: alternative explanation exist PLUS everything was vague INTENTIONALLY, so: the "holy canon" is vague... and the criticism is allowed. Far wrong if not.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 25, 2020 17:31:44 GMT
BUT: Anders was not altruistic – while helping people was not that far from him (he comes back to help fighting, if the Warden send him away at first). But to heal people for free in the Darktown? For years? Yes, you are right about this, although Anders was a spirit healer from the beginning so he must have had something about him that attracted compassion spirits to him. According to the lore such healers are quite rare, not simply because of the attitude in southern Circles (because spirit healers are something that is approved of) but because there aren't many mages altruistic enough to attract the spirits. Anders natural inclination may have been to help people with his magic but just didn't get the opportunity when on the run. So I think you could see it either way but it is possible that the free clinic in Darktown was entirely due to Justice's influence, in which case that was definitely a positive result to their union.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 25, 2020 18:12:13 GMT
What I also think extremely odd is how they dealt with the issue of how the Seekers of Truth acquire their powers. I think it is Buckeldemon who suggests they are simply a special type of spirit warrior. Well this is what the Core Rule Book says about the Templar attitude to them.
Spirit warriors, like spirit healers, understand that not all denizens of the Fade are malevolent. They make deals with spirits of the Fade, gaining access to special powers in exchange for giving the spirits a personal view of the physical world. Spirit warriors can cloak themselves in magical energy and even use it to blast enemies. Though they are not mages, this distinction is lost on most. Templars tend to treat spirit warriors as apostates, since their displays of power certainly look like magic and they’d rather err on the side of caution.
Now the powers exhibited by Seekers of Truth are exactly like those of certain blood magic, so even if they weren't aware it was the influence of a spirit, you'd think at some point the Templars would notice the similarity and start asking questions. After all this isn't like phylacteries which are a form of blood magic but actual abilities that mimic blood magic spells. If Templars are meant to be so vigilant in policing the use of magic and spotting instances of blood magic, how could they miss this?
Also the Core Rule Book makes the point with Spirit Healers that dealing with any denizen of the Fade is a risky business, if nothing else because you may attract the attention of less benevolent spirits as well. So Seekers of Truth are dabbling with dangerous forces, yet Cassandra sees nothing wrong in perpetuating the Order. Whilst the writers do not seem to be consistent in their narrative because if possession is an ever present threat for allowing mages in the community, then anyone else dabbling with spirits is too.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 25, 2020 18:49:01 GMT
BUT: Anders was not altruistic – while helping people was not that far from him (he comes back to help fighting, if the Warden send him away at first). But to heal people for free in the Darktown? For years? Yes, you are right about this, although Anders was a spirit healer from the beginning so he must have had something about him that attracted compassion spirits to him. According to the lore such healers are quite rare, not simply because of the attitude in southern Circles (because spirit healers are something that is approved of) but because there aren't many mages altruistic enough to attract the spirits. Anders natural inclination may have been to help people with his magic but just didn't get the opportunity when on the run. So I think you could see it either way but it is possible that the free clinic in Darktown was entirely due to Justice's influence, in which case that was definitely a positive result to their union. Yes, I'm sure, he was chosen by the spirits because they saw in him the helpful man, who allows them to help through himself. But the intention and good heart is not enough if someone, not that committed – and we saw, he was not really committed – only for his freedom – while he saw well the whole oppression. I'm sure, he wanted to help – just was too lazy to commit himself to help (too hard? – like to help free his fellows is too difficult)? And the Circle was not his territory – I'm also sure, they didn't allow him to help – outside the Tower, where the help really needed... With time, he realized, the only man whom he can trust is himself (his father betrayed him, we saw the environment of the Circle, and Karl is already gone – they sent him to Kirkwall) – so: he helps to himself, and doesn't think, he should help to anyone else... yet... Not excluded, absolutely not, that he would help without Justice's influence – but even if he escapes from the Wardens (it also can be imaginable– he hated the commitments to an order, and saw the Wardens another "trap" – while an improvement compared to the Circle), I can't see that HARD commitment to live in a slum and tirelessly, as purpose heal people. To focus all his passion to heal and freedom. True: when he merged with Justice – he DID this commitment, but he counted help in it, from Justice. He didn't think he will be able to it alone. Many thoughts and feelings about Anders' character, so: I'm not sure, I was able to explain with my weak English. One thing is sure: yes, I see their merging brought positive things.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 26, 2020 20:40:53 GMT
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LadyofNemesis
N5
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 26, 2020 21:01:19 GMT
![:crying:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/DXYvYKTKTfCBEhHGFvDL.png) why does this make me cry? who's cutting onions?!
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Now stealin' more kidz.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Oct 27, 2020 14:32:19 GMT
![:crying:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/HyhacSwEWUxBAmsXXrMO.png) why does this make me cry? who's cutting onions?! Not me. Crying motions over hear as well. That's like an early version of "Enchanter" from DAI. Though... the lower-right corner guy at the "blame us for the way we chose to fight" moment is Sebastian, right?
Honestly, "Enchanter", "Fall of the Magister", "Samson's tale", "Oh, Grey Warden", "Sera was never" and perhaps "Empress of Fire" (when hearing it first, I thought it was referring to Andraste ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png) ) are the DAI tavern songs I like (pretty much in order I listed them). The rest is pretty much andrastian whining. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) Oh, and "Slightest" holds a... 'special' place. I'm not specifically liking it, but it is such a juicy 'lil piece of human racism and condescension. ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png)
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Now stealin' more kidz.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Oct 27, 2020 16:12:20 GMT
I quite like the conception of Anders/Justice, Also: I see the intentions of the writers: "being abomination is always wrong" 1) However, the very fact that his writer felt that the Rivalry path is better for Anders shows the point they were trying to make. Then when you learn that she really wanted to have it that both we as the players and Anders was totally tricked by some random demon, it is obvious that the message she wanted to give was a negative one. Whilst the rest of her team decided against going that far, it is clear that Anders was being made the fall guy for the message throughout DA2 that mages are a constant threat because of possession. As I've also pointed out, it is not possible to really split out the issue with possession from the issue of mage freedom with rivalry. I could be wrong about this but it seemed to me that you cannot be pro mage freedom if you want to rival Anders. Which suggests that the writer was also trying to push you in the direction that keeping mages in Circles is necessary for the safety of the general population. This seems not to have just been confined to Anders' writer either if DG wanted to highlight the "mage doom" aspect of Thedas and the comments put in Varric's mouth by his writer concerning your decision at the end. [...] 2) To be honest, I always found the story of Meredith's sister to be somewhat exaggerated considering how easily our PC is able to put down the average abomination in all three games, which after all is what Meredith's sister would have been. She would appear to have been possessed by a fear demon at the moment the Templars are coming down the street to take her in and yet managed to kill 70 people before they managed to stop her. Just how effective are Templars at controlling magical monstrosities if Amelia's abomination could do this much damage when they were actually on hand to prevent it? That was also the problem with the entire plot of DA2. Kirkwall was said to be the main centre for the Templars in the Freemarches, so their number are greater here than anywhere else, yet they were terrible at controlling magical threats in the city and the more Meredith had a stranglehold on the secular rule as well, the worse they seemed to become at their actual job. If the writers were trying to convince me of the necessity for putting Templars in charge of mages, they did a very bad job of it. 1) Having played through "Faith" twice yesterday (first for taking screenshots, second for checking if my fix of the Leliana mod I'm using works as intended), I'd say it is yet another attempt of the writing to (after the fact? I don't know when they wrote it, but TEP was apparently a "Day 1" DLC) justify Meredith's idiocy by showing some more "crazy evil" mages around. Too bad it ends up backfiring in my eyes, as Leliana takes no interest in the doings of the Knight-Commander (or Elthina) and just focuses on Justinia's assumption of the Free Marches "becoming another Imperium" and the puny mage revolt (to use Sebastian's favourite catchphrase) being "the worst threat to Thedas since the Qunari invaded". Oh and the ridicolous "The whole world is watching Kirkwall. If it falls to magic, none of us are safe." You seem to have taken a liking to using "mage doom". No worries, I won't charge license fees. It was just a shorthand phrase I came up with after living through seemingly endless mage discussions.
2) I guess I found yet another shorthand neologism: " Freudian Templar Excuse". ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/eMjudLqrqAjoLIOqTalh.png) I.e. "something bad involving magic happened in my past and now I hate all mages regardless". Applies to Meredith, Cassandra in her interactions with Regalyan in DotS from what I could gather from screencaps, Lord Seeker Lam(e)bert. Meredith apparently conveniently forgot to tell that Amelia snapped once the templars advanced down the streets waving their banners around and Lambert, despite coming from an orlesian noble family, never could be assed to think of the political implications of his experiences with the Imperial Divine, despite "the Game" being not that different in Orlais. About the "bad writing" – many people think, the writer are –like some gods– over the criticism, and the holy canon doesn't allow the alternative explanations. But: alternative explanation exist PLUS everything was vague INTENTIONALLY, so: the "holy canon" is vague... and the criticism is allowed. Far wrong if not. Yeah, apparently you can only like everything they write or hate all their guts regardless. What galls me especially is DAI's "lore adjustments" or whatever one wants to call it. I can see what a blatantly obvious attempt to discredit the Dalish and push the templars Mineave's background story seems to be, regardless how much some "played DAI first" self-styled "lore nerd" screeches "canon". As for the writing of the "crazy" rebel mages... well, to use what some would call "leftist tumblr SJW rhetorics" - frickin' ableist. Or to be more elaborate, discrediting dissenters as "insane" was and is a quite popular way to shut them up in RL as well, especially if real mental health issues are involved. And most of the time they are if we are talking about circle inmates. Even Vivienne did not seem to come out completely unscathed. What I also think extremely odd is how they dealt with the issue of how the Seekers of Truth acquire their powers. I think it is Buckeldemon who suggests they are simply a special type of spirit warrior. Well this is what the Core Rule Book says about the Templar attitude to them. Spirit warriors, like spirit healers, understand that not all denizens of the Fade are malevolent. They make deals with spirits of the Fade, gaining access to special powers in exchange for giving the spirits a personal view of the physical world. Spirit warriors can cloak themselves in magical energy and even use it to blast enemies. Though they are not mages, this distinction is lost on most. Templars tend to treat spirit warriors as apostates, since their displays of power certainly look like magic and they’d rather err on the side of caution.
Now the powers exhibited by Seekers of Truth are exactly like those of certain blood magic, so even if they weren't aware it was the influence of a spirit, you'd think at some point the Templars would notice the similarity and start asking questions. After all this isn't like phylacteries which are a form of blood magic but actual abilities that mimic blood magic spells. If Templars are meant to be so vigilant in policing the use of magic and spotting instances of blood magic, how could they miss this? Also the Core Rule Book makes the point with Spirit Healers that dealing with any denizen of the Fade is a risky business, if nothing else because you may attract the attention of less benevolent spirits as well. So Seekers of Truth are dabbling with dangerous forces, yet Cassandra sees nothing wrong in perpetuating the Order. Whilst the writers do not seem to be consistent in their narrative because if possession is an ever present threat for allowing mages in the community, then anyone else dabbling with spirits is too. That was my way to rationalise the murky description we got in DAI. The rite a prospective SoT undergoes basically makes sure one emotion/thought/concept prevails in their mind (faith? devotion?), they are deprived of all other emotions, so the "right" spirit is attracted, which restores them but still seems to leave quite a bit focus on faith (good way to ensure the "right" mindset, I guess) plus grants their special-special powers which are then just magic. The SoT's preferred method is just one way to attract spirits for a magical favour (see the Avvar), but I suppose the Chantry really likes the ritualistic manner and the do-or-die character... not unlike a Harrowing (which may be seen as a religious ritual more than anything else, reenacting the so-called "Second Sin" with the mage being put in the shoes of the Magisters Sidereal). And then there's Lambert again. Unlike most other SoTs, he was a templar first. Did he went off lyrium when becoming a seeker, since he could get all the goodies via spirit then? Does the lyrium-induced magic resistance dampen the magic bestowed by the spirit?
The in-game description of the spec in DAA pretty much says the same.
"Although spirit warriors employ magical abilities, they are not mages; instead, they flirt with inhabitants of the Fade who agree to augment mortal abilities in exchange for a glimpse of the physical world. Naturally, the Chantry's templars rarely acknowledge that distinction."
I'd say that is yet another case of chantry hypocrisy and, on the meta-level, the writers possibly shooting themselves in the foot.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,859 Likes: 12,019
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12,019
LadyofNemesis
4,859
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 27, 2020 16:20:59 GMT
Not me. Crying motions over hear as well. That's like an early version of "Enchanter" from DAI. Though... the lower-right corner guy at the "blame us for the way we chose to fight" moment is Sebastian, right?
Honestly, "Enchanter", "Fall of the Magister", "Samson's tale", "Oh, Grey Warden", "Sera was never" and perhaps "Empress of Fire" (when hearing it first, I thought it was referring to Andraste ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png) ) are the DAI tavern songs I like (pretty much in order I listed them). The rest is pretty much andrastian whining. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) Oh, and "Slightest" holds a... 'special' place. I'm not specifically liking it, but it is such a juicy 'lil piece of human racism and condescension. ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png) on Sebastian, I think so yes...
I personally like all of the songs from the main campaign, I haven't heard all of the songs yet from Trespasser, I did just listen to Slightest and can I...can I just picture my Tabris wanting to dash across a table to strangle Maryden? My Lavellan would probably be to numb by then to care, but my Tabris would have enough rage left for both I do think 'I am the one' is my favorite
I once wrote some song lyrics for my Tabris to 'sing' (seeing as she's a Bard), it was basically her way of bashing the Maker ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) (Leliana did not approve ![:whistle:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KsWEGtwHLHUtTuiWt0OV.png) )
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Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
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buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Buckeldemon on Oct 27, 2020 17:30:14 GMT
Not me. Crying motions over hear as well. That's like an early version of "Enchanter" from DAI. Though... the lower-right corner guy at the "blame us for the way we chose to fight" moment is Sebastian, right?
Honestly, "Enchanter", "Fall of the Magister", "Samson's tale", "Oh, Grey Warden", "Sera was never" and perhaps "Empress of Fire" (when hearing it first, I thought it was referring to Andraste ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png) ) are the DAI tavern songs I like (pretty much in order I listed them). The rest is pretty much andrastian whining. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) Oh, and "Slightest" holds a... 'special' place. I'm not specifically liking it, but it is such a juicy 'lil piece of human racism and condescension. ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png) on Sebastian, I think so yes...
I personally like all of the songs from the main campaign, I haven't heard all of the songs yet from Trespasser, I did just listen to Slightest and can I...can I just picture my Tabris wanting to dash across a table to strangle Maryden? My Lavellan would probably be to numb by then to care, but my Tabris would have enough rage left for both I do think 'I am the one' is my favorite
I once wrote some song lyrics for my Tabris to 'sing' (seeing as she's a Bard), it was basically her way of bashing the Maker ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/bdCEvNVatVNAsdHGmbkp.png) (Leliana did not approve ![:whistle:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/FJRrMWJqBmLkDWfsyljf.png) ) Isn't "I am the one" originally from DAO?
"Mercy for the elves who guard their lives with faith Our hands do weight them down, but their kind hearts will forgive the... URGH" *sputtering coughs of death as Lavellan runs her through with her spirit blade*
Lavellan: "Uh. No. We. Won't." Velanna: "Bitch! You stole my frag! She was mine!" Merrill: "Well, her song wasn't very nice, was it?"
Or to take one of the youtube comments: "This song is dedicated to Bioware, who's made it a habit to give you the chance of slaughtering a whole Dalish clan every game. And shat on them all over the place in DAI, even on the meta-level." Second sentence courtesy of yours truly. I haven't done this calculation for myself, but I've read that, taking everything into account, the statistical chance of clan Lavellen being wiped out in DAI is 91.7%.
Heck, choosing a Dalish in DAI can basically be summed up with "mala suledin nadas" - "Now you must endure." Can you send me those lyrics via PM, for amusement?
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gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 27, 2020 18:36:00 GMT
Oh, and "Slightest" holds a... 'special' place. I'm not specifically liking it, but it is such a juicy 'lil piece of human racism and condescension. I did just listen to Slightest and can I...can I just picture my Tabris wanting to dash across a table to strangle Maryden? My principle reaction to "Slightest" was more a sense of foreboding what with "mercy for the elves" and then "will the Dalish son survive the fight?" Given the treatment of the Dalish in the games and books up until then, I'm not holding my breath on it. My actual thoughts were "Oh shit, they are definitely going to be the fall guys for Solas". Tevinter Nights even has the clans up in Tevinter, when previously it was said they don't go that far north for obvious reasons. Now it is possible that the plans that Irelin was meant to get a message to were in Rivain, although Strife and his friend Thantiel were spying in Tevinter and clearly there must be some clans near Arlathan Forest but in the later tale An Old Crow's Tricks the Dalish clan definitely fell foul of Tevinter troops. The only explanation must be that the clans have headed north in answer to the call of the Dread Wolf. Bye bye Dalish.
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Jun 22, 2024 20:45:03 GMT
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gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 27, 2020 18:57:52 GMT
the writers possibly shooting themselves in the foot. The writers had an interesting notion of how people react to mage abominations in Jaws of Hakkon if you recruit the Avvar girl. Cullen does stay in Templar mode when he says: This is madness. If you must, have this Avvar abomination meet with our own scholars. In a small room. Far from anything. With a templar present.However, you do have the option to ignore him and go with Josephine suggestion to send her on tour as a cultural exchange. I note Leliana didn't get involved on this one. What surprised me was the result: Dear Lady Montilyet,
Sigrid Guldsdotten was a delight! Such a fresh perspective! True, the evening threatened to go poorly when the Avvar mage and Magister Verixsus bickered over the proper use of spirit-bindings, but she brought down the house during a practical demonstration of spheric-energy projections! (Both figuratively and very nearly literally. Quite invigorating!) I cannot tell you how gratifying it was to see all the old goats from the Fereldan Circles outdone by an Avvar. We must have her back. Also, I believe Verixsus invited her to his summer villa.
All the best, dear! Countess FlecheSeveral oddities here. What was this Magister Verixsus doing in the south? I didn't know they were generally accepted in social circles. Where was this happening as in Orlais the title of the noble writing the letter should have been Comtess. Yet I would have thought only an Orlesian would get such pleasure from the "old goats" from the Ferelden Circles (I thought there was only ever one) being outdone by an Avvar. Which is rather peculiar because shutting up mages in Circles started in Orlais, so the enthusiam for the "Avvar abomination" does seem strange. Also, if you do Champions of the Just surely the "old goats" are dead? The main thing that annoyed me about Jaws of Hakkon was how apparently the Avvar are totally okay with having possessed young mages among them, actually using spirits as teachers, and not a specialist mage hunter in sight,when you contrast it with the 3-mage rule they introduced for the Dalish in DAI that has them abandoning mage children in the woods because they have too many in a clan. That totally absurd retcon of the Dalish attitude to mages is still the single most annoying thing for me about DAI, even ranking above the stupid time travel plot and Fiona's idiocy as leader of the mage rebellion. However, the way they dealt with the Avvar attitude to possession also made a nonsense of what they did in DA2 but particularly the treatment of Anders relationship with Justice.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,859 Likes: 12,019
inherit
10314
0
Jun 22, 2024 21:57:05 GMT
12,019
LadyofNemesis
4,859
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 27, 2020 19:28:26 GMT
Isn't "I am the one" originally from DAO?
"Mercy for the elves who guard their lives with faith Our hands do weight them down, but their kind hearts will forgive the... URGH" *sputtering coughs of death as Lavellan runs her through with her spirit blade*
Lavellan: "Uh. No. We. Won't." Velanna: "Bitch! You stole my frag! She was mine!" Merrill: "Well, her song wasn't very nice, was it?"
Or to take one of the youtube comments: "This song is dedicated to Bioware, who's made it a habit to give you the chance of slaughtering a whole Dalish clan every game. And shat on them all over the place in DAI, even on the meta-level." Second sentence courtesy of yours truly. I haven't done this calculation for myself, but I've read that, taking everything into account, the statistical chance of clan Lavellen being wiped out in DAI is 91.7%.
Heck, choosing a Dalish in DAI can basically be summed up with "mala suledin nadas" - "Now you must endure." Can you send me those lyrics via PM, for amusement?
It is yes
Tabris: *clapping in approval* nice one
My Lavellan: ...*slow thumbs up of approval*
Mahariel: aww...I wanted to do that ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/BBCpsoiIHmyzmblpikow.png) (yeah I have/had a Mahariel as well...he fell for Morrigan, but if Velanna had been romancable he probably would've fallen for her ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) )
As for my lyrics...I'll see if I can find them, I hadn't typed them out yet Oh, and "Slightest" holds a... 'special' place. I'm not specifically liking it, but it is such a juicy 'lil piece of human racism and condescension. I did just listen to Slightest and can I...can I just picture my Tabris wanting to dash across a table to strangle Maryden? My principle reaction to "Slightest" was more a sense of foreboding what with "mercy for the elves" and then "will the Dalish son survive the fight?" Given the treatment of the Dalish in the games and books up until then, I'm not holding my breath on it. My actual thoughts were "Oh shit, they are definitely going to be the fall guys for Solas". Tevinter Nights even has the clans up in Tevinter, when previously it was said they don't go that far north for obvious reasons. Now it is possible that the plans that Irelin was meant to get a message to were in Rivain, although Strife and his friend Thantiel were spying in Tevinter and clearly there must be some clans near Arlathan Forest but in the later tale An Old Crow's Tricks the Dalish clan definitely fell foul of Tevinter troops. The only explanation must be that the clans have headed north in answer to the call of the Dread Wolf. Bye bye Dalish. I loved, LOVED the Dalish in Origins...but as each installment in the series went by, all I can feel for them is just...sorrow I hate to find out what Bioware has planned next for them
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Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Buckeldemon on Oct 27, 2020 23:07:58 GMT
Oh, and "Slightest" holds a... 'special' place. I'm not specifically liking it, but it is such a juicy 'lil piece of human racism and condescension. I did just listen to Slightest and can I...can I just picture my Tabris wanting to dash across a table to strangle Maryden? My principle reaction to "Slightest" was more a sense of foreboding what with "mercy for the elves" and then "will the Dalish son survive the fight?" Given the treatment of the Dalish in the games and books up until then, I'm not holding my breath on it. My actual thoughts were "Oh shit, they are definitely going to be the fall guys for Solas". Tevinter Nights even has the clans up in Tevinter, when previously it was said they don't go that far north for obvious reasons. Now it is possible that the plans that Irelin was meant to get a message to were in Rivain, although Strife and his friend Thantiel were spying in Tevinter and clearly there must be some clans near Arlathan Forest but in the later tale An Old Crow's Tricks the Dalish clan definitely fell foul of Tevinter troops. The only explanation must be that the clans have headed north in answer to the call of the Dread Wolf. Bye bye Dalish. I'm anticipating scaled-up of Dalish extermination as well, though with regards to TN, I did not found it very odd that there was the usual "lets go hunt some knife-ears" from the Tevinter military ("running afoul" with someone as a Dalish just means existing most of the time anyway...), but there being actually some sort of repercussion for killing some Dalish. Though... a frickin' antivan Crow (I suppose human? Was Lessef's race stated anywhere?) doing it definitely gives off some "white saviour" vibe. I'm not sure if they planned this from the get-go, but I don't know where the "bring the Dalish down" trend comes from anyway. I personally tended to blame it on Patrick Weekes to be honest, given TME not giving a fuck about the Virnehn clan besides portraying them as pretty negatively, and Mineave of course. Especially baffling since even a privileged white european male like me can see the implications, given the Dalish are pretty much a stand-in for marginalised minorities like First Nations, and Weekes' wife apparently having a native brackground (Cheyenne if I recall right). Gaider on the other hand... well, I don't find it that much surprising if people on the web accuse him for being utterly tone-deaf when it comes to oppression issues (see "mage doom"), to say the least. Oh, and he apparently said stuff like "there are no mental illnesses in Thedas because nobody diagnoses them". ![:facepalm:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/LnUBktUNmyIRZJVJhGSZ.png) I bet certain experienced community elders could recognise something wrong... also, the Qunari ("asaala-taar"=soul sickness), Anders, Velanna, Cullen, Merrill, Sera, Oghren, Meredith and even possibly Leliana and Alistair disagree. the writers possibly shooting themselves in the foot. The writers had an interesting notion of how people react to mage abominations in Jaws of Hakkon if you recruit the Avvar girl. Cullen does stay in Templar mode when he says: This is madness. If you must, have this Avvar abomination meet with our own scholars. In a small room. Far from anything. With a templar present.However, you do have the option to ignore him and go with Josephine suggestion to send her on tour as a cultural exchange. I note Leliana didn't get involved on this one. What surprised me was the result: Dear Lady Montilyet,
Sigrid Guldsdotten was a delight! Such a fresh perspective! True, the evening threatened to go poorly when the Avvar mage and Magister Verixsus bickered over the proper use of spirit-bindings, but she brought down the house during a practical demonstration of spheric-energy projections! (Both figuratively and very nearly literally. Quite invigorating!) I cannot tell you how gratifying it was to see all the old goats from the Fereldan Circles outdone by an Avvar. We must have her back. Also, I believe Verixsus invited her to his summer villa.
All the best, dear! Countess FlecheSeveral oddities here. What was this Magister Verixsus doing in the south? I didn't know they were generally accepted in social circles. Where was this happening as in Orlais the title of the noble writing the letter should have been Comtess. Yet I would have thought only an Orlesian would get such pleasure from the "old goats" from the Ferelden Circles (I thought there was only ever one) being outdone by an Avvar. Which is rather peculiar because shutting up mages in Circles started in Orlais, so the enthusiam for the "Avvar abomination" does seem strange. Also, if you do Champions of the Just surely the "old goats" are dead? The main thing that annoyed me about Jaws of Hakkon was how apparently the Avvar are totally okay with having possessed young mages among them, actually using spirits as teachers, and not a specialist mage hunter in sight,when you contrast it with the 3-mage rule they introduced for the Dalish in DAI that has them abandoning mage children in the woods because they have too many in a clan. That totally absurd retcon of the Dalish attitude to mages is still the single most annoying thing for me about DAI, even ranking above the stupid time travel plot and Fiona's idiocy as leader of the mage rebellion. However, the way they dealt with the Avvar attitude to possession also made a nonsense of what they did in DA2 but particularly the treatment of Anders relationship with Justice. I have to admit I wondered about Viuus Anaxas at first as well, given the name, until I got he's a Mortalitasi. Though you are right, this has a list of holes. - Magister in the south, Orlais. - How many circles does Ferelden have? - ... besides they should be either mostly dead or Venatori conscripts after CotJ I don't wonder much about some orlaisian fop treating it as a curiosity though. Apparently that was a common thing for circle mages before, being entertainment.
I guess how Avvar deal with their mages was at least not meant to silently retract the "Mineave BS rule", given how JoH one-sidedly victim-blames the Dales for their own destruction ("No Cassandra, if Drakon would have stayed home, we would not have that issue."). I could think of it as a "Humans do it better, even if they are heathens. Elves=shit) thing. Singular human-centric perspective bleeding over from Mass Effect? Oh, and while I did not notice it in my game, someone apparently could not resist placing a pile of corpses behind Sigrid's hut? Well, we never heard of "someone weird" attacking Inquisition soldiers as I recall, so my guess: She did not splat them because "evil mage", but these were the bodies of Hakkonites attacking her (they don't seem choos-y). Isn't "I am the one" originally from DAO?
"Mercy for the elves who guard their lives with faith Our hands do weight them down, but their kind hearts will forgive the... URGH" *sputtering coughs of death as Lavellan runs her through with her spirit blade*
Lavellan: "Uh. No. We. Won't." Velanna: "Bitch! You stole my frag! She was mine!" Merrill: "Well, her song wasn't very nice, was it?"
Or to take one of the youtube comments: "This song is dedicated to Bioware, who's made it a habit to give you the chance of slaughtering a whole Dalish clan every game. And shat on them all over the place in DAI, even on the meta-level." Second sentence courtesy of yours truly. I haven't done this calculation for myself, but I've read that, taking everything into account, the statistical chance of clan Lavellen being wiped out in DAI is 91.7%.
Heck, choosing a Dalish in DAI can basically be summed up with "mala suledin nadas" - "Now you must endure." Can you send me those lyrics via PM, for amusement?
1) It is yes
Tabris: *clapping in approval* nice one
My Lavellan: ...*slow thumbs up of approval*
Mahariel: aww...I wanted to do that ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/yWehKVtlVAi0LtdsyaCq.png) (yeah I have/had a Mahariel as well...he fell for Morrigan, but if Velanna had been romancable he probably would've fallen for her ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/bdCEvNVatVNAsdHGmbkp.png) )
As for my lyrics...I'll see if I can find them, I hadn't typed them out yet My principle reaction to "Slightest" was more a sense of foreboding what with "mercy for the elves" and then "will the Dalish son survive the fight?" Given the treatment of the Dalish in the games and books up until then, I'm not holding my breath on it. My actual thoughts were "Oh shit, they are definitely going to be the fall guys for Solas". Tevinter Nights even has the clans up in Tevinter, when previously it was said they don't go that far north for obvious reasons. Now it is possible that the plans that Irelin was meant to get a message to were in Rivain, although Strife and his friend Thantiel were spying in Tevinter and clearly there must be some clans near Arlathan Forest but in the later tale An Old Crow's Tricks the Dalish clan definitely fell foul of Tevinter troops. The only explanation must be that the clans have headed north in answer to the call of the Dread Wolf. Bye bye Dalish. 2) I loved, LOVED the Dalish in Origins...but as each installment in the series went by, all I can feel for them is just...sorrow I hate to find out what Bioware has planned next for them 1) Having some love for 'lil Velanna makes you precious. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) Though I guess we need to find some other "idiot shems" to keep all of our characters occupied. The dude in Skyhold fore example, who spouts conspiracy theories about elves supporting Corypheus with their non-existent army (as the dwarf suffering his presence points out). 2) Well, it does not make me like them less. It just makes me dislike the writing more. Just wait until they go full-blown Dalek on the Dalish... me screeching and raging around on the boards and making cynical comments about "fantasy christianisation" is probably the least concern then. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) Well, one could spam their Twitter accounts with quoting of the Dalish oath and fanart. ![:devil:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/vm0LdmaZNliQuiOl0pxw.png)
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LadyofNemesis
N5
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 28, 2020 8:00:57 GMT
- How many circles does Ferelden have? <abbr>--</abbr> 1) Having some love for 'lil Velanna makes you precious. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) Though I guess we need to find some other "idiot shems" to keep all of our characters occupied. The dude in Skyhold fore example, who spouts conspiracy theories about elves supporting Corypheus with their non-existent army (as the dwarf suffering his presence points out). 2) Well, it does not make me like them less. It just makes me dislike the writing more. Just wait until they go full-blown Dalek on the Dalish... me screeching and raging around on the boards and making cynical comments about "fantasy christianisation" is probably the least concern then. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) Well, one could spam their Twitter accounts with quoting of the Dalish oath and fanart. ![:devil:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/vm0LdmaZNliQuiOl0pxw.png) Ferelden has/had 3 Circle of Magi one in Denerim (which was destroyed during the Tower Age) one in Jainen (located in the Waking Sea Bannorn (though only mentioned in the DA spinoff DA:Legends) and the one at Lake Callenhad -- 1) Segrid comes to mind...the way he scrambles as to not call Lavellan a knife ear...
2) I'm half tempted to do so...but I have no Twitter
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gervaise21
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 28, 2020 13:36:29 GMT
I loved, LOVED the Dalish in Origins...but as each installment in the series went by, all I can feel for them is just...sorrow I hate to find out what Bioware has planned next for them Dalish was the first origin I played so I do have a particular affection for Mahariel and his clan. I couldn't understand what they were doing in the Freemarches, since my foster mother turned up at the celebrations in Denerim and I thought my clan was heading south for our newly given boon. Even more upset when I ended up killing the clan in DA2 first run because I wouldn't take responsibility for Merrill and simply told them their Keeper had been possessed. Then in DAI I couldn't understand what a clan, whose normal territory is across the central Freemarches, was doing sending someone to spy on the Conclave. Why the sudden interest in what the humans are doing at an event organised by their religious leader? Even if they had decided to give all Andrastrian mages their freedom, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have extended to the heathen elves. It would have made more sense if the clan had actually been based in Ferelden and so were directly affected by the conflict in the Hinterlands, which is where the Dalish would have been based if the Dalish boon had been allowed to continue beyond DAO, but of course that came to nothing as well. The Dalish, the mages and the city elves all seemed to miss out on their boons ultimately. We never go back to Orzammar to see what became of the dwarf one, so guess what it is just the human warden who gets anything lasting out of it (until they get sent on the wild goose chase into the west of course). Anyway, my view of the Dalish wasn't an idealised one. I was fully able to point out their faults in DAO but overall what I admired was their refusal to lie down and be beaten but instead stick to their traditions, whether they were genuinely ancient or not. I was incensed by what PW did with them in Masked Empire. Saying in DAI that the clans have grown apart over the years doesn't wash in my eyes as this was a basic attitude that totally contradicted our previous experience and in any case, for someone new to the setting, if ME was their first encounter with the Dalish naturally they would think that was the norm. Even so, they did help Briala and the humans escape the sylvans and then their reward was to be fed to the demon. No wonder the Dalish don't trust humans. I was none too impressed by Felassan's behaviour either since he knew what would happen and let Michel continue regardless. Shartan also was and will always be my hero, even more so after reading the Canticle of Shartan, but of course they now have human scholars suggesting that he never really existed, plus the writers suggesting a link with the Dread Wolf that had me fuming. If they kill off the Dalish for no good reason, I will be both sad and angry.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 28, 2020 14:20:13 GMT
Anyway, getting back to Anders, leaving aside whether you romanced him or not, I have only recently realised that the Keep doesn't show whether you were in rivalry or friendship relationship but merely two facts, whether or not your agreed with Anders' actions and whether or not you executed him. With the former the picture representing this is that of the Chantry exploding. Naturally when I first set up the Keep and I still had misgivings about the wisdom of this action, I selected "did not approve". Only now do I realise that essentially this makes the assumption you must have been in a rivalry relationship. Why? Because of the dialogue you get from Hawke in DAI:
"I don't know if there was ever just an "Anders". He was crazy. By the end, there was nothing left in him except this insane need to start a war no one could win."
Naturally I was not happy with this dialogue because I was on the friendship path and whilst Seren Hawke had dropped romancing him in favour of Fenris, she remained his friend and had spared him at the end, so he could help fix the mess he had created by saving the mages from Meredith. So she didn't agree with bombing the Chantry as the right strategy but nevertheless she fully supported his campaign for mage freedom and still thought Anders was pretty much the same person she had known all along.
So checking the options on You Tube I realise that if you were in a friendship relationship with Anders you need to have chosen "approved of his actions" because otherwise you get the wrong dialogue. At least with the other it says that Anders was:
"Complicated. It's not like the minstrels make it out to be. He's not just a monster or a hero. Or maybe he's both. He was trying to change the world. He knew it couldn't happen peacefully."
It's not perfect but it's better than the "disapproved" one and clearly is intended to match a Hawke who supported mage freedom, which as I say is almost impossible to play on the rivalry path without serious meta-gaming (if at all).
If you were in a romance with him it is even worse with the "disapproval" dialogue, particularly if they chose to execute him. When asked if they were once close:
"Yes, but when he went mad...I couldn't stop what he did. I could only put him down" (Like he's a mad dog) That is definitely a rivalry response.
Contrast it with the alternative "approved" option if they executed him.
"He wasn't a monster or a martyr. Or maybe he was both" and the rest is the same as for the non romanced "friend".
Strangely enough on the friendship path and Anders lives there is no mention of the betrayal that you get on the rival path and the difficulty in getting past that, although it is noticeable that if they spared Anders, Hawke says they couldn't give up on him. Yet there is no option, as far as I can tell, for if a rivaled Hawke spared Anders and killed the mages, forcing Anders to participate, so are we to assume that Anders didn't kill himself after that?
Anyway, like I say, I've clearly had the wrong Keep on a lot of my runs in DAI because of taking the option for "disapproved" of Anders' actions, when in fact the correct selection should have been "approved" regardless of the Chantry bombing because otherwise the game assumes I was on the rival path and not in favour of mage freedom.
It is also interesting that the writing team didn't allow for any nuance in your decision. If you are pro mage freedom then you support everything that Anders did or you are anti mage freedom and therefore disapprove of everything Anders did. What they rule out is the idea that you could be pro mage freedom but against bombing the Chantry, which makes the use of the Chantry exploding somewhat misleading. Presumably they assume your choice as to whether to support the Templars or mages indicates your view on that but what of the Hawke who still supported having Circles but not Meredith in her illegal annulment? Nor does that choice appear to factor in to your attitude towards Anders.
It is rather like the whole decision over what to do with the mages in DAI. I support mage freedom but the rebel mages had betrayed the monarch of Ferelden in joining up with a foreign power against them, so I treated them like I would any traitors whether mages or not. In fact they were treated somewhat better because they were only conscripted and not executed but then that was down to their leader about whom I could do nothing (Still sulking over that) but at least the mages were now basically under my leadership. However, to the writing team conscripting means I favour Chantry controlled Circles. Naturally I am going to tinker like mad with the Keep before the next game in order to get it reflecting as closely as possible what I intended by my choices.
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Post by Catilina on Oct 28, 2020 15:45:12 GMT
Anyway, getting back to Anders, leaving aside whether you romanced him or not, I have only recently realised that the Keep doesn't show whether you were in rivalry or friendship relationship but merely two facts, whether or not your agreed with Anders' actions and whether or not you executed him. With the former the picture representing this is that of the Chantry exploding. Naturally when I first set up the Keep and I still had misgivings about the wisdom of this action, I selected "did not approve". Only now do I realise that essentially this makes the assumption you must have been in a rivalry relationship. Why? Because of the dialogue you get from Hawke in DAI:
"I don't know if there was ever just an "Anders". He was crazy. By the end, there was nothing left in him except this insane need to start a war no one could win."
Naturally I was not happy with this dialogue because I was on the friendship path and whilst Seren Hawke had dropped romancing him in favour of Fenris, she remained his friend and had spared him at the end, so he could help fix the mess he had created by saving the mages from Meredith. So she didn't agree with bombing the Chantry as the right strategy but nevertheless she fully supported his campaign for mage freedom and still thought Anders was pretty much the same person she had known all along.
So checking the options on You Tube I realise that if you were in a friendship relationship with Anders you need to have chosen "approved of his actions" because otherwise you get the wrong dialogue. At least with the other it says that Anders was:
"Complicated. It's not like the minstrels make it out to be. He's not just a monster or a hero. Or maybe he's both. He was trying to change the world. He knew it couldn't happen peacefully."
It's not perfect but it's better than the "disapproved" one and clearly is intended to match a Hawke who supported mage freedom, which as I say is almost impossible to play on the rivalry path without serious meta-gaming (if at all).
If you were in a romance with him it is even worse with the "disapproval" dialogue, particularly if they chose to execute him. When asked if they were once close:
"Yes, but when he went mad...I couldn't stop what he did. I could only put him down" (Like he's a mad dog) That is definitely a rivalry response.
Contrast it with the alternative "approved" option if they executed him.
"He wasn't a monster or a martyr. Or maybe he was both" and the rest is the same as for the non romanced "friend".
Strangely enough on the friendship path and Anders lives there is no mention of the betrayal that you get on the rival path and the difficulty in getting past that, although it is noticeable that if they spared Anders, Hawke says they couldn't give up on him. Yet there is no option, as far as I can tell, for if a rivaled Hawke spared Anders and killed the mages, forcing Anders to participate, so are we to assume that Anders didn't kill himself after that?
Anyway, like I say, I've clearly had the wrong Keep on a lot of my runs in DAI because of taking the option for "disapproved" of Anders' actions, when in fact the correct selection should have been "approved" regardless of the Chantry bombing because otherwise the game assumes I was on the rival path and not in favour of mage freedom.
It is also interesting that the writing team didn't allow for any nuance in your decision. If you are pro mage freedom then you support everything that Anders did or you are anti mage freedom and therefore disapprove of everything Anders did. What they rule out is the idea that you could be pro mage freedom but against bombing the Chantry, which makes the use of the Chantry exploding somewhat misleading. Presumably they assume your choice as to whether to support the Templars or mages indicates your view on that but what of the Hawke who still supported having Circles but not Meredith in her illegal annulment? Nor does that choice appear to factor in to your attitude towards Anders.
It is rather like the whole decision over what to do with the mages in DAI. I support mage freedom but the rebel mages had betrayed the monarch of Ferelden in joining up with a foreign power against them, so I treated them like I would any traitors whether mages or not. In fact they were treated somewhat better because they were only conscripted and not executed but then that was down to their leader about whom I could do nothing (Still sulking over that) but at least the mages were now basically under my leadership. However, to the writing team conscripting means I favour Chantry controlled Circles. Naturally I am going to tinker like mad with the Keep before the next game in order to get it reflecting as closely as possible what I intended by my choices. All of this. Addition: Seems Hawke who "didn't approve, what he did" – still with him, but seems just because feel sorry for him. And here another inconsistency: Hawke says, s/he doesn't there were Anders who s/he knew... and probably nothing remained from Anders... BUT: if in romance, right after says: s/he can't let him alone... Then why? (Also: in rivalry Hawke says to him, s/he still believes him... WHY? HOW? Right now s/he said: nothing remained from him...) AND: if Hawke supported his act (as I remember in a patch), they removed this pathetic answer to the question "I heard you were close": "I stayed with him because I feel sorry him" FORTUNATELY, but they didn't replace this line with anything – just erased the whole. If your hawke was in romance with him, and supported him – the Inquisitor doesn't ask Hawke: "I heard you were close". (Cowards – but i suppose I should be grateful... sadly.) Anyway... my favourite fan-dialogue-replacement: blue Hawke: ![](http://66.media.tumblr.com/b4a020a386b4eae1bcdb0f5a44c4e97e/tumblr_ns9l07Doj91ri36afo5_250.gif) purple Hawke: ![](http://66.media.tumblr.com/56fe4a12125b72728fa0603db65161c1/tumblr_ns9n7vhBSv1ri36afo6_250.gif) red Hawke: source
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 28, 2020 19:33:35 GMT
AND: if Hawke supported his act (as I remember in a patch), they removed this pathetic answer to the question "I heard you were close": "I stayed with him because I feel sorry him" FORTUNATELY, but they didn't replace this line with anything – just erased the whole. If your hawke was in romance with him, and supported him – the Inquisitor doesn't ask Hawke: "I heard you were close". (Cowards – but i suppose I should be grateful... sadly.) You know I wondered what happened to the question about being in a romance with him. I never knew it was there and then they removed it. Honestly, who was responsible for writing that dialogue? They clearly had no idea about how someone might feel towards him if they approved of his actions. Mind you I never agreed with them having Hawke send Fenris away for his own safety or Hawke feeling responsible for Corypheus in the Fade enough to want to sacrifice themselves because of it. They really made rather a mess of Hawke's enforced dialogue in my opinion. I do love those fan replacement dialogues though. Whilst Aidan Hawke is mostly purple, in some ways I think red would be the route he would take over that question. There is also absolutely no way he'd sacrifice himself in the Fade without Anders there. (Actually I'd have quite liked Anders to have been there: "Go get him Justice!") As it is, they were reunited and from then on they stand or fall together. I also think, as we previously discussed, that Anders losing control in Cory's prison was Justice reacting to the threat before we released him. Once released then Justice was content to protect Anders from Cory's influence and/or possession. As such I think Justice would be able to detect the presence of the Nightmare Demon amplifying the false Calling and realise something was off. Plus, unlike the other Wardens, I don't think Anders' first instinct would be to panic and head for the Deep Roads, considering he hates them so much. As with the mage rebellion, I think if Anders had actually been with the Wardens, he would have been the first to see through Erimond's "helpful" suggestion to raise a demon army and go in search of the last two Old Gods. I rather think his response would have been something along the lines of "You cannot be serious?! And they say I'm crazy!"
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Now stealin' more kidz.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Buckeldemon on Oct 28, 2020 20:37:37 GMT
- How many circles does Ferelden have? <abbr>--</abbr> 1) Having some love for 'lil Velanna makes you precious. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) Though I guess we need to find some other "idiot shems" to keep all of our characters occupied. The dude in Skyhold fore example, who spouts conspiracy theories about elves supporting Corypheus with their non-existent army (as the dwarf suffering his presence points out). 2) Well, it does not make me like them less. It just makes me dislike the writing more. Just wait until they go full-blown Dalek on the Dalish... me screeching and raging around on the boards and making cynical comments about "fantasy christianisation" is probably the least concern then. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/CeRUIfXurYhaBmWjMBkt.png) Well, one could spam their Twitter accounts with quoting of the Dalish oath and fanart. ![:devil:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/vm0LdmaZNliQuiOl0pxw.png) 1) Ferelden has/had 3 Circle of Magi one in Denerim (which was destroyed during the Tower Age) one in Jainen (located in the Waking Sea Bannorn (though only mentioned in the DA spinoff DA:Legends) and the one at Lake Callenhad -- 1) Segrid comes to mind...the way he scrambles as to not call Lavellan a knife ear... 2) I'm half tempted to do so...but I have no Twitter 1) Hmm... the old Bioware wiki entry mentions that Kinloch Hold was chosen as a replacement for the building at Denerim, so they just moved apparently. I had to look up Legends and... ugh. Child born as Trainquil, that being refuted by the Kirby. ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/eMjudLqrqAjoLIOqTalh.png) I suppose they were unware of Jainen or ignored it intenionally. Odd thing is that the frickin' Free Marches have a ton of circles. Though I suppose this either due to DA2, their fracturedness or the pretty present Chantry influence there. I guess I mentioned it earlier, but I've come across a theory which asserted that the Marches are basically under a slow divide-and-conquer attempt by the orleasians via chantry meddling. Orlais cannot invade directly, or the city states would band together, so they have local leaders replaced by "faithful(tm) ones" (see Starkhaven) in templar-backed coups, or have the templars rule directly in all but name (Kirkwall). Also, Tantervale. ![:facepalm:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/dHVtgvDeaHjTMmvLGVAB.png) 2) Fortunately I cannot remember what he said. Though Harrit the smith is just as annoying, i.e. bigoted andrastian peasant phrases. I mean, it is pretty fucked up that they showed Avexis at all (who had her unique talent tranquilised out of her) and then use her as a mouthpiece for some anti tranquility cure rhetorics. 3) Me neither. I just onder how many quote/art spammers the team could block before getting bored. ![:whistle:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/FJRrMWJqBmLkDWfsyljf.png) I loved, LOVED the Dalish in Origins...but as each installment in the series went by, all I can feel for them is just...sorrow I hate to find out what Bioware has planned next for them 1) I couldn't understand what they were doing in the Freemarches, since my foster mother turned up at the celebrations in Denerim and I thought my clan was heading south for our newly given boon. Even more upset when I ended up killing the clan in DA2 first run because I wouldn't take responsibility for Merrill and simply told them their Keeper had been possessed. Then in DAI I couldn't understand what a clan, whose normal territory is across the central Freemarches, was doing sending someone to spy on the Conclave. 2) Anyway, my view of the Dalish wasn't an idealised one. I was fully able to point out their faults in DAO but overall what I admired was their refusal to lie down and be beaten but instead stick to their traditions, whether they were genuinely ancient or not. I was incensed by what PW did with them in Masked Empire. Saying in DAI that the clans have grown apart over the years doesn't wash in my eyes as this was a basic attitude that totally contradicted our previous experience and in any case, for someone new to the setting, if ME was their first encounter with the Dalish naturally they would think that was the norm. Even so, they did help Briala and the humans escape the sylvans and then their reward was to be fed to the demon. No wonder the Dalish don't trust humans. I was none too impressed by Felassan's behaviour either since he knew what would happen and let Michel continue regardless. 3) Shartan also was and will always be my hero, even more so after reading the Canticle of Shartan, but of course they now have human scholars suggesting that he never really existed, plus the writers suggesting a link with the Dread Wolf that had me fuming. If they kill off the Dalish for no good reason, I will be both sad and angry. 1) Was the deal that Marethari struck with Flemeth mentioned anywhere else than Wot2? After playing DAI (Mythal reveal, Mythal altar on Sundermount) and reading that, it made some sense, but not so much before. There's an exchange between Merrill and King!Alistair in DA2 regarding the boon.
Merrill: We… we heard the Dalish were given land in Ferelden. Is it true? Alistair: Yes. I wish I could say that went better. Merrill: Why? What happened? Alistair: It’s… a long story. I intend to make it up to your people, however. I owe an old friend of mine too much to do otherwise. I suspect some hate crime happening, most probably from human side. 2) I very much assume that nobody here idealises them...? I just go on to second your appreciation of their refusal to roll over. And the fact that as of DAO, they were pretty much the only non-andrastian group on the surface we got a perspective on. 3) May I say that the Chanticle of Shartan is one of the few if not only one which does not throw me off? And Shartan looked upon the Prophet Andraste And said: "The People will set ourselves free. Your host from the South may march Alongside us.No submission here, Chantry. Sorrynotsorry. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/bdCEvNVatVNAsdHGmbkp.png) Not too fond of the Shartan-Solas connection either. I see it a bit as a symptom that BW seems to streamline elves into either some ancient uglies or (half-)assimilated andrastian doormats (see Ameridan), but nothing in between. I suppose "fall guy" (this is similar to scrapegoat, right?) isn't a good reason. At least not for me anyway. (I know I'm off-topic... it is just... I cannot see if there's a elf-related topic here which isn't high traffic or infested with trolls. ) It is also interesting that the writing team didn't allow for any nuance in your decision. If you are pro mage freedom then you support everything that Anders did or you are anti mage freedom and therefore disapprove of everything Anders did. What they rule out is the idea that you could be pro mage freedom but against bombing the Chantry, which makes the use of the Chantry exploding somewhat misleading. Presumably they assume your choice as to whether to support the Templars or mages indicates your view on that but what of the Hawke who still supported having Circles but not Meredith in her illegal annulment? Nor does that choice appear to factor in to your attitude towards Anders. Yeah, all mage supporters are "evil terrorists". What the hell Bioware... It reminds me a bit of ME, which implied Renegade=Cerberus supporter at first, but then went all over the place n ME3 before railroading us into pointless debates with husk-eyed chain smoker. Ugh. AND: if Hawke supported his act (as I remember in a patch), they removed this pathetic answer to the question "I heard you were close": "I stayed with him because I feel sorry him" FORTUNATELY, but they didn't replace this line with anything – just erased the whole. If your hawke was in romance with him, and supported him – the Inquisitor doesn't ask Hawke: "I heard you were close". (Cowards – but i suppose I should be grateful... sadly.) You know I wondered what happened to the question about being in a romance with him. I never knew it was there and then they removed it. Honestly, who was responsible for writing that dialogue? They clearly had no idea about how someone might feel towards him if they approved of his actions. Mind you I never agreed with them having Hawke send Fenris away for his own safety or Hawke feeling responsible for Corypheus in the Fade enough to want to sacrifice themselves because of it. They really made rather a mess of Hawke's enforced dialogue in my opinion. Reading this and taking the mention of the patch into account, as I started playing DAI in 2018, I wonder if ruining two out of five romances with Hawke's DAI appearances can be seen as a feat.
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LadyofNemesis
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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LadyofNemesis
4,859
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 28, 2020 20:56:07 GMT
1) Hmm... the old Bioware wiki entry mentions that Kinloch Hold was chosen as a replacement for the building at Denerim, so they just moved apparently. I had to look up Legends and... ugh. Child born as Trainquil, that being refuted by the Kirby. ![:lol:](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/qUctXNjCPgwPaLsZeKry.png) I suppose they were unware of Jainen or ignored it intenionally. Odd thing is that the frickin' Free Marches have a ton of circles. Though I suppose this either due to DA2, their fracturedness or the pretty present Chantry influence there. I guess I mentioned it earlier, but I've come across a theory which asserted that the Marches are basically under a slow divide-and-conquer attempt by the orleasians via chantry meddling. Orlais cannot invade directly, or the city states would band together, so they have local leaders replaced by "faithful(tm) ones" (see Starkhaven) in templar-backed coups, or have the templars rule directly in all but name (Kirkwall). Also, Tantervale. 2) Fortunately I cannot remember what he said. Though Harrit the smith is just as annoying, i.e. bigoted andrastian peasant phrases. I mean, it is pretty fucked up that they showed Avexis at all (who had her unique talent tranquilised out of her) and then use her as a mouthpiece for some anti tranquility cure rhetorics. 3) Me neither. I just onder how many quote/art spammers the team could block before getting bored. 1) I think it's mostly because the Marcher City states are so far apart that they need their own Circle.
2) wait wait...back that up...the tranquil elf girl who says 'I no longer speak to dragons' is meant to be Avexis? ...now I really feel like crying, I loved that little bundle of joy, she made Dawn of the Seeker better it's already bad they killed Regalyan offscreen but they had the audacity to make my baby Tranquil?!
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