inherit
11247
0
1,639
Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Buckeldemon on Oct 28, 2020 21:10:32 GMT
1) I think it's mostly because the Marcher City states are so far apart that they need their own Circle.
2) wait wait...back that up...the tranquil elf girl who says 'I no longer speak to dragons' is meant to be Avexis? ...now I really feel like crying, I loved that little bundle of joy, she made Dawn of the Seeker better it's already bad they killed Regalyan offscreen but they had the audacity to make my baby Tranquil?! 1) I thought it was more like because the city states don't like each other too much... It might also be due to the Marches being more in the center of Thedas, as well as a breadbasket region, i.e. cheap food access for all the mages. 2) I haven't seen DotS yet, just some screencaps which show that Cassandra is an ass and that mages there are either doormat loyalists or bloodmage cultists. But,apparently, yes. Weekes' Twitter-confirmed that. I guess I'm better of not trying to watch that movie anytime soon...
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Jun 15, 2024 22:51:02 GMT
30,819
Hanako Ikezawa
22,667
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 28, 2020 21:18:51 GMT
1) Hmm... the old Bioware wiki entry mentions that Kinloch Hold was chosen as a replacement for the building at Denerim, so they just moved apparently. I had to look up Legends and... ugh. Child born as Trainquil, that being refuted by the Kirby. I suppose they were unware of Jainen or ignored it intenionally. Odd thing is that the frickin' Free Marches have a ton of circles. Though I suppose this either due to DA2, their fracturedness or the pretty present Chantry influence there. I guess I mentioned it earlier, but I've come across a theory which asserted that the Marches are basically under a slow divide-and-conquer attempt by the orleasians via chantry meddling. Orlais cannot invade directly, or the city states would band together, so they have local leaders replaced by "faithful(tm) ones" (see Starkhaven) in templar-backed coups, or have the templars rule directly in all but name (Kirkwall). Also, Tantervale. 2) Fortunately I cannot remember what he said. Though Harrit the smith is just as annoying, i.e. bigoted andrastian peasant phrases. I mean, it is pretty fucked up that they showed Avexis at all (who had her unique talent tranquilised out of her) and then use her as a mouthpiece for some anti tranquility cure rhetorics. 3) Me neither. I just onder how many quote/art spammers the team could block before getting bored. 1) I think it's mostly because the Marcher City states are so far apart that they need their own Circle.
2) wait wait...back that up...the tranquil elf girl who says 'I no longer speak to dragons' is meant to be Avexis? ...now I really feel like crying, I loved that little bundle of joy, she made Dawn of the Seeker better it's already bad they killed Regalyan offscreen but they had the audacity to make my baby Tranquil?! At least Cassandra is watching over her, so she didn't suffer the fate the mages did to their Tranquil. And I imagine she's someone Cassandra has in mind for the cure first once it's safe. As for Regaylan, eh good riddance. Never liked him and I wasn't a fan of them having him and Cassandra become a couple for a bit (such an overused trope).
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 15, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
27,280
gervaise21
11,149
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 28, 2020 21:31:44 GMT
Was the deal that Marethari struck with Flemeth mentioned anywhere else than Wot2? After playing DAI (Mythal reveal, Mythal altar on Sundermount) and reading that, it made some sense, but not so much before. Not as far as I am aware. That entry in WoT2 was all over the place as well. Marethari was meant to have taken over as Keeper of the clan in 8:82 but since Mahariel's father was said to have been the previous Keeper, that would have made them 48 in DAO, which is definitely not the age they were presented as. Plus Flemeth waited the same number of years to get pay back for the favour she did for her. Clearly Flemeth never forgets a debt but you'd think she'd have opted for something shorter term considering there was no guarantee that Marethari would survive that long. It was another of these instances when the person writing the entry for WoT2 made it unduly complicated quite apart from not fitting the narrative in DAO. Why couldn't it have been a more recent debt she owed Flemeth for rather than one nearly half a century old? Still it is hardly surprising that none of the younger members of the clan were aware of this. The principle thing that had me puzzled though was the fact that at the end of DAO it was definitely implied my clan was still in Ferelden and going to be able to benefit from the boon. Then in DA2 Merrill had only "heard" about it, presumably whilst they were sitting around under Sundermount. The other oddity was that if Marethari was the one owing Flemeth the debt, why not hand over the clan to Merrill in Ferelden and head to the Freemarches on her own? Not drag them all along, expose Merrill to the demon that caused all the trouble, end up killing all their halla on the journey and then hang around for years at the bottom of a haunted mountain when her duty to Flemeth was done. She was definitely a terrible Keeper when it came to the welfare of her clan. (Of course another thing never explained is where the clan got the money to pay for the passage)
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 15, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
27,280
gervaise21
11,149
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 28, 2020 21:38:02 GMT
1) I think it's mostly because the Marcher City states are so far apart that they need their own Circle I thought it was more like because the city states don't like each other too much... I think it is more something to do with the latter. A country can have more than one Circle if they wish/it is needed but the Freemarches are individual City States and so politics are involved in having so many, although broadly speaking Kirkwall covers the south, Starkhaven originally covered the north and Ostwick covered the eastern part of the Freemarches.
|
|
LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,849 Likes: 11,997
inherit
10314
0
Jun 15, 2024 21:33:05 GMT
11,997
LadyofNemesis
4,849
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 28, 2020 21:41:51 GMT
1) I thought it was more like because the city states don't like each other too much... It might also be due to the Marches being more in the center of Thedas, as well as a breadbasket region, i.e. cheap food access for all the mages. 2) I haven't seen DotS yet, just some screencaps which show that Cassandra is an ass and that mages there are either doormat loyalists or bloodmage cultists. But,apparently, yes. Weekes' Twitter-confirmed that. I guess I'm better of not trying to watch that movie anytime soon...
1) that too
2) I bought it on disc...only watched it once, it's not really...well, the movie itself has a few good scenes (one being the dragon battle) but aside from that it's a bit meh imo. plus the style is a bit anime-ish which a lot of people didn't really like. But then again, each installment so far has had inconsistent art styles At least Cassandra is watching over her, so she didn't suffer the fate the mages did to their Tranquil. And I imagine she's someone Cassandra has in mind for the cure first once it's safe. As for Regaylan, eh good riddance. Never liked him and I wasn't a fan of them having him and Cassandra become a couple for a bit (such an overused trope). I suppose...but the fact they made her tranquil just...it makes me feel sad The tranquil themselves make me sad anyway...I mean, I sometimes wish I could turn my emotions off (seeing as I'm oversensitive for emotions from others) but wouldn't want for it to be permanent. Plus...why brand their foreheads? It seems very cruel to put a brand on them (especially even if they get 'cured' they'll still carry that reminder with them for the rest of their lives)
I liked Regalyan as a standalone character, didn't need him to be a 'lover' for Cassandra if he'd just remained her friend I would've liked that better but no, of course they had to give Cass a former lover and then kill him offscreen...which is another overused trope as I recall
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Jun 15, 2024 22:51:02 GMT
30,819
Hanako Ikezawa
22,667
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 28, 2020 22:26:30 GMT
At least Cassandra is watching over her, so she didn't suffer the fate the mages did to their Tranquil. And I imagine she's someone Cassandra has in mind for the cure first once it's safe. As for Regaylan, eh good riddance. Never liked him and I wasn't a fan of them having him and Cassandra become a couple for a bit (such an overused trope). I suppose...but the fact they made her tranquil just...it makes me feel sad The tranquil themselves make me sad anyway...I mean, I sometimes wish I could turn my emotions off (seeing as I'm oversensitive for emotions from others) but wouldn't want for it to be permanent. Plus...why brand their foreheads? It seems very cruel to put a brand on them (especially even if they get 'cured' they'll still carry that reminder with them for the rest of their lives)
I liked Regalyan as a standalone character, didn't need him to be a 'lover' for Cassandra if he'd just remained her friend I would've liked that better but no, of course they had to give Cass a former lover and then kill him offscreen...which is another overused trope as I recall Made me sad too. Though like I said, at least we knew she was safe with Cassandra and the Inquisition. So that was nice to know at least. Yeah, I'm on two minds of Tranquility. I'm definitely against how it's done and the abuses some suffer, but then there are stories like Orana (not the slave girl Hawke can take in) where her life was a living hell with how tormented she was by demons and how nothing helped, and then she chose to become Tranquil and was finally at peace. So there are good cases for it, so I'm not opposed to it being an option but it should remain only that: an option. Yeah, that's a trope too. And one Bioware loves to use. Carth Syndrome. Carth from KOTOR, Thane from ME2, Steve from ME3, Zevran from DAO, Anders in DA2, and Cassandra in DAI all have that kind of story in their romance. And there are others too in their games I haven't played. But yeah, it would have been nice if the "Will they won't they" ended with they won't. Especially since nothing came of it, since it's not like they were together when he died so that's an extra personal motivation for her or something.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Jun 15, 2024 18:10:40 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Oct 28, 2020 23:00:47 GMT
I suppose...but the fact they made her tranquil just...it makes me feel sad The tranquil themselves make me sad anyway...I mean, I sometimes wish I could turn my emotions off (seeing as I'm oversensitive for emotions from others) but wouldn't want for it to be permanent. Plus...why brand their foreheads? It seems very cruel to put a brand on them (especially even if they get 'cured' they'll still carry that reminder with them for the rest of their lives)
I liked Regalyan as a standalone character, didn't need him to be a 'lover' for Cassandra if he'd just remained her friend I would've liked that better but no, of course they had to give Cass a former lover and then kill him offscreen...which is another overused trope as I recall Made me sad too. Though like I said, at least we knew she was safe with Cassandra and the Inquisition. So that was nice to know at least. Yeah, I'm on two minds of Tranquility. I'm definitely against how it's done and the abuses some suffer, but then there are stories like Orana (not the slave girl Hawke can take in) where her life was a living hell with how tormented she was by demons and how nothing helped, and then she chose to become Tranquil and was finally at peace. So there are good cases for it, so I'm not opposed to it being an option but it should remain only that: an option. Yeah, that's a trope too. And one Bioware loves to use. Carth Syndrome. Carth from KOTOR, Thane from ME2, Steve from ME3, Zevran from DAO, Anders in DA2, and Cassandra in DAI all have that kind of story in their romance. And there are others too in their games I haven't played. But yeah, it would have been nice if the "Will they won't they" ended with they won't. Especially since nothing came of it, since it's not like they were together when he died so that's an extra personal motivation for her or something. The only possibility I can imagine to use the Tranquility is the Seeker ritual – all different case the tranquility should be BANNED. No benefit in Tranquility – if we don't count the free workers... Of course, the Chantry loved it, I'm sure. The Tranquils' free work maintained the Circle – what mutilated them. That fucking Gallows caused that her nightmares got worse.
|
|
inherit
11247
0
1,639
Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Buckeldemon on Oct 28, 2020 23:02:44 GMT
1) I thought it was more like because the city states don't like each other too much... It might also be due to the Marches being more in the center of Thedas, as well as a breadbasket region, i.e. cheap food access for all the mages. 2) I haven't seen DotS yet, just some screencaps which show that Cassandra is an ass and that mages there are either doormat loyalists or bloodmage cultists. But,apparently, yes. Weekes' Twitter-confirmed that. I guess I'm better of not trying to watch that movie anytime soon...
1) that too 2) I bought it on disc...only watched it once, it's not really...well, the movie itself has a few good scenes (one being the dragon battle) but aside from that it's a bit meh imo. plus the style is a bit anime-ish which a lot of people didn't really like. But then again, each installment so far has had inconsistent art styles Well, I already ranted why style would be my least concern. At least Cassandra is watching over her, so she didn't suffer the fate the mages did to their Tranquil. And I imagine she's someone Cassandra has in mind for the cure first once it's safe. As for Regaylan, eh good riddance. Never liked him and I wasn't a fan of them having him and Cassandra become a couple for a bit (such an overused trope). I suppose...but the fact they made her tranquil just...it makes me feel sad The tranquil themselves make me sad anyway...I mean, I sometimes wish I could turn my emotions off (seeing as I'm oversensitive for emotions from others) but wouldn't want for it to be permanent. Plus...why brand their foreheads? It seems very cruel to put a brand on them (especially even if they get 'cured' they'll still carry that reminder with them for the rest of their lives) There's a bunch of negative emotions I have and don't like, but I would not want to have the better parts, like my weird excitement at certain things and even this odd kind of humor (well, you know me...) gone. Also... it is not just a brand, it is a frickin' Chantry sunburst. To me, this screams a multitude of iffy things, from "sign of ownership" to "Divine Punishment"(tm) or shit like that. And then people have the gall to mouth off about the Dalish wearing "slave markings"... Oh, and thinking of that post-cure makes it even worse. Though I guess if Bioware adresses it all again, it will probably be handwaved or packed with "bad" things to make curing utterly "unreasonable" - if you follow pro-circle arguments that is. Trespasser's epilogue mentions nothing about Cassandra doing anything with regard to a cure. I also dislike that the Inquisitor cannot spread the word themself. I'd actually have liked to take it out of Cassandra's hands completely, to be honest. Sure, of all Chantry people, she's the most likely not to cover it up (again), but the fact remains that she's furiously Chantry. I suppose...but the fact they made her tranquil just...it makes me feel sad The tranquil themselves make me sad anyway...I mean, I sometimes wish I could turn my emotions off (seeing as I'm oversensitive for emotions from others) but wouldn't want for it to be permanent. Plus...why brand their foreheads? It seems very cruel to put a brand on them (especially even if they get 'cured' they'll still carry that reminder with them for the rest of their lives) I liked Regalyan as a standalone character, didn't need him to be a 'lover' for Cassandra if he'd just remained her friend I would've liked that better but no, of course they had to give Cass a former lover and then kill him offscreen...which is another overused trope as I recall Made me sad too. Though like I said, at least we knew she was safe with Cassandra and the Inquisition. So that was nice to know at least. Yeah, I'm on two minds of Tranquility. I'm definitely against how it's done and the abuses some suffer, but then there are stories like Orana (not the slave girl Hawke can take in) where her life was a living hell with how tormented she was by demons and how nothing helped, and then she chose to become Tranquil and was finally at peace. So there are good cases for it, so I'm not opposed to it being an option but it should remain only that: an option. Yeah, that's a trope too. And one Bioware loves to use. Carth Syndrome. Carth from KOTOR, Thane from ME2, Steve from ME3, Zevran from DAO, Anders in DA2, and Cassandra in DAI all have that kind of story in their romance. And there are others too in their games I haven't played. But yeah, it would have been nice if the "Will they won't they" ended with they won't. Especially since nothing came of it, since it's not like they were together when he died so that's an extra personal motivation for her or something. Orana is the literal only example I could be convinced for. And only if there would be more details on it. In hindsight, the first attempt should have been moving her out of Kirkwall, given what we know about the cities' veil issues. Since there's no date on the codex, I won't comment on the influence the circle itself might have had on her. (Thinking of the other Orana, I'd really like to have a dialogue fix so Leandra does not think a paid Orana is a slave anymore. At least with Merrill around, I can headcanon she would take care about her a bit so she does not feel like a lowly servant.)
Does the character need to be romanceable for qualifying as Carth Syndrome? If so, I'd add Jaheira from BG: SoA. If "lost lover/spouse" is enough, we also have Kasumi and Vivienne, in a sense. As much as I liked Kasumi, I'm okay with her not being romanceable.
The only possibility I can imagine to use the Tranquility is the Seeker ritual – all different case the tranquility should be BANNED. No benefit in Tranquility – if we don't count the free workers... Of course, the Chantry loved it, I'm sure. The Tranquils' free work maintained the Circle – what mutilated them.
I'd say that isn't even necessary. As I said regarding my understanding of the SoT's as spirit warriors (and despite my view that the "Seekers Order" should be abolished altogether), spirits can be attracted in other ways. Just ask the Avvar.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Jun 15, 2024 22:51:02 GMT
30,819
Hanako Ikezawa
22,667
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 28, 2020 23:29:11 GMT
Made me sad too. Though like I said, at least we knew she was safe with Cassandra and the Inquisition. So that was nice to know at least. Yeah, I'm on two minds of Tranquility. I'm definitely against how it's done and the abuses some suffer, but then there are stories like Orana (not the slave girl Hawke can take in) where her life was a living hell with how tormented she was by demons and how nothing helped, and then she chose to become Tranquil and was finally at peace. So there are good cases for it, so I'm not opposed to it being an option but it should remain only that: an option. Yeah, that's a trope too. And one Bioware loves to use. Carth Syndrome. Carth from KOTOR, Thane from ME2, Steve from ME3, Zevran from DAO, Anders in DA2, and Cassandra in DAI all have that kind of story in their romance. And there are others too in their games I haven't played. But yeah, it would have been nice if the "Will they won't they" ended with they won't. Especially since nothing came of it, since it's not like they were together when he died so that's an extra personal motivation for her or something. Orana is the literal only example I could be convinced for. And only if there would be more details on it. In hindsight, the first attempt should have been moving her out of Kirkwall, given what we know about the cities' veil issues. Since there's no date on the codex, I won't comment on the influence the circle itself might have had on her. (Thinking of the other Orana, I'd really like to have a dialogue fix so Leandra does not think a paid Orana is a slave anymore. At least with Merrill around, I can headcanon she would take care about her a bit so she does not feel like a lowly servant.)
Does the character need to be romanceable for qualifying as Carth Syndrome? If so, I'd add Jaheira from BG: SoA. If "lost lover/spouse" is enough, we also have Kasumi and Vivienne, in a sense. As much as I liked Kasumi, I'm okay with her not being romanceable. Yeah, I didn't like that about Leandra either. As for Merrill, you don't have to headcanon. I remember Hawke having a couple comments about it, like how they enjoyed seeing Merrill and Orana get along when Orana tried teaching Merrill how to play an instrument. I was only using LIs since it was Cassandra, but yeah if we count non-LI characters it is even more.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 15, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
27,280
gervaise21
11,149
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 29, 2020 7:59:06 GMT
Does the character need to be romanceable for qualifying as Carth Syndrome? If so, I'd add Jaheira from BG: SoA. Don't forget Aribeth, the Paladin from Neverwinter Nights. That was really tragic, her lover being hanged for simply being associated with the villain, even though he was completely unaware of what he was doing. Then she goes off the rails completely as a result and loses her faith. So she definitely is one of the long list of Bioware companions with their lost lover impacting on their story.
|
|
LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,849 Likes: 11,997
inherit
10314
0
Jun 15, 2024 21:33:05 GMT
11,997
LadyofNemesis
4,849
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 29, 2020 7:59:29 GMT
Made me sad too. Though like I said, at least we knew she was safe with Cassandra and the Inquisition. So that was nice to know at least. Yeah, I'm on two minds of Tranquility. I'm definitely against how it's done and the abuses some suffer, but then there are stories like Orana (not the slave girl Hawke can take in) where her life was a living hell with how tormented she was by demons and how nothing helped, and then she chose to become Tranquil and was finally at peace. So there are good cases for it, so I'm not opposed to it being an option but it should remain only that: an option. Yeah, that's a trope too. And one Bioware loves to use. Carth Syndrome. Carth from KOTOR, Thane from ME2, Steve from ME3, Zevran from DAO, Anders in DA2, and Cassandra in DAI all have that kind of story in their romance. And there are others too in their games I haven't played. But yeah, it would have been nice if the "Will they won't they" ended with they won't. Especially since nothing came of it, since it's not like they were together when he died so that's an extra personal motivation for her or something. there are always good cases, but they don't outweigh the bad ones...at least imo.
Varric would count under that trope as well (with the whole Bianca thing ) There's a bunch of negative emotions I have and don't like, but I would not want to have the better parts, like my weird excitement at certain things and even this odd kind of humor (well, you know me...) gone. Also... it is not just a brand, it is a frickin' Chantry sunburst. To me, this screams a multitude of iffy things, from "sign of ownership" to "Divine Punishment"(tm) or shit like that. And then people have the gall to mouth off about the Dalish wearing "slave markings"... Oh, and thinking of that post-cure makes it even worse. Though I guess if Bioware adresses it all again, it will probably be handwaved or packed with "bad" things to make curing utterly "unreasonable" - if you follow pro-circle arguments that is. Trespasser's epilogue mentions nothing about Cassandra doing anything with regard to a cure. I also dislike that the Inquisitor cannot spread the word themself. I'd actually have liked to take it out of Cassandra's hands completely, to be honest. Sure, of all Chantry people, she's the most likely not to cover it up (again), but the fact remains that she's furiously Chantry. the thing is...until recently the Dalish didn't even know the vallaslin were actually slave markings.
but yeah, I agree with the whole 'sunburst brand' being some kind of mark of ownership...which makes it even worse
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 15, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
27,280
gervaise21
11,149
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 29, 2020 8:28:25 GMT
The only possibility I can imagine to use the Tranquility is the Seeker ritual – all different case the tranquility should be BANNED. No benefit in Tranquility – if we don't count the free workers... Of course, the Chantry loved it, I'm sure. The Tranquils' free work maintained the Circle – what mutilated them.
I'd say that isn't even necessary. As I said regarding my understanding of the SoT's as spirit warriors (and despite my view that the "Seekers Order" should be abolished altogether), spirits can be attracted in other ways. Just ask the Avvar. I'm not even sure that should be counted as true tranquility. I thought the idea originally, as described by Cassandra, was that the person empties themselves of emotion (as is described by many real life mystics) which allows them to connect with the divine consciousness, so is an act of faith. If you look at it in that way, I can understand it attracting a faith spirit. The idea that some external agency renders the individual tranquil (which actually separates them from the divine consciousness in the Fade) and then somehow manages to attract a faith spirit to restore them, doesn't make a lot of sense to me, because where is the faith of the individual in that? Particularly that Karl at least seemed to forget totally what his loyalties were before he was made tranquil, so the tranquil proto Seeker is going to have to be reminded to think about the Maker. However, without emotion that is not faith, just recalling information. So it makes more sense that the Seeker is aware they are trying to attract a faith spirit, they focus their mind on the Maker in religious ecstasy and thus make contact with the spirit, which then from then on works with them. Mind you, as I've said before, there is no reason why someone devout from another religion could not do the same because the spirits involved are meant to be those of faith, not faith in the Maker, or the writers have to admit that this is proof of the existence of the Maker if the faith spirits only respond to faith in him because they know all other deities are false and only respond to "true" faith. Anyway bottom line is that the Rite of Tranquility should be banned in all circumstances. I don't feel it is even justifiable based on the experiences of mages we have met in game who have requested it because of the general attitude towards mages in the Chantry controlled Circles. When you are constantly exposed to negative thinking, obviously some sensitive individuals are going to badly affected by this and as a result they are going to attract demons feeding off those negative emotions. When a mage believes they are cursed with magic it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. This is the problem with the attitude of the Templars and the Chantry towards mages. Even the instances of suicide feed into their perception that mages are cursed and constantly in danger from possession because, so far as I can tell, the mages don't die through slitting their wrists or hanging themselves but by simply giving into a demon and letting it overwhelm them or self immolating, the former confirming the Templar view of them and the latter probably done when alone (as with Orsino's friend) so all they find is scorch marks, thus confirming the mage was a danger. So before I would be convinced that tranquility is ever a solution for a mage who has problems with their connection with the Fade, I'd want to know what sort of rhetoric the mage had been exposed to. It may seem a rather trite declaration but "think happy thoughts" in this instance is actually a very effective solution to the problem, along with assuring them that they are blessed with their gift and are as valued as anyone else by those around them. Also, not housing them in an area where the Veil is known to be thin, let alone one like the Gallows where it has actually been the focus of suffering for hundreds of years.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 15, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
27,280
gervaise21
11,149
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 29, 2020 8:33:00 GMT
the thing is...until recently the Dalish didn't even know the vallaslin were actually slave markings. Not only that, whatever they were in the past, now they mean the complete opposite. They are actually the sign of the elves who "will never again submit". That may be something of an irony but it makes them no less valid. If a Dalish feels they no longer want those particular vallaslin because of the slavery connotations, they could always come up with something different, although considering how many variants there are of the different vallaslin, I would imagine that many of them are not exact representations of the slave markings. On the whole slave brands, like those applied to animals, need to be consistently applied so there is no doubt as to the ownership.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 15, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
27,280
gervaise21
11,149
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 29, 2020 9:13:18 GMT
" I don't know if there was ever just an "Anders". He was crazy. By the end, there was nothing left in him except this insane need to start a war no one could win."This speech by a rivaled Hawke does start to throw some light on what JH considered were Anders' delusions. I always wondered about her saying this about him. What was he deluded about? That mages are routinely abused in the Circles? That many are victims of rape? That suicide is the most common form of death for mages in the Circle? All these were proven by events or conversations in the games and by entries in WoT2. No, apparently his delusion was that mages could ever be free of the Chantry controlled Circles and that compromise was never going to achieve anything significant. Surely though subsequent events proved him right, depending of course on who you get as Divine but even in the resolution to Act 1 of DAI depending on what the Inquisitor chooses to do? After all if they choose to give the mages total autonomy haven't they effectively "won" the war? Bearing in mind on this path the Templar order has been totally destroyed by red lyrium. Even if you go with the Templar path and disband them, they have still lost and the mages are the winners in the end, if you get Leliana as Divine. Strangely enough none of the choices that the Inquisitor makes are seen as "compromises" by the game. Solas also makes the point to Cassandra that those who got the war going in earnest must have been equally deluded: The templars went to war to force mages back into their Circles, which the mages would never agree to. What solution could Divine Justinia have offered when all sides rejected compromise? It is also interesting that Solas is the only person who says it was the templars who started the war. So why is Anders the only person labelled as "crazy" and "mad" when clearly there were other people who shared his goals, the leaders of the mages, and other people who were equally unwilling to compromise, the leaders of the Templars? Yet Anders writer felt that the rival path was ultimately better for Anders. I still fail to understand why? My Hawkes must have been equally deluded because they were always willing to fight for mage freedom and thought it was possible to achieve it. There is also a certain paradox in the ideas of JH. If the danger everyone is afraid of is that free mages will take over control of the south, then surely it is not deluded to think that if the mages unite they can win the war for their freedom? However, if the idea they could ever win their freedom is deluded, then surely the need to keep them locked up in Circles to prevent a take over is also a fallacy? So the Hawke on the friendship path did seem to have summed it up pretty well. Anders wasn't deluded in thinking that mages could win their freedom but realised that it couldn't be done peacefully. They had to fight for it. Interestingly enough, Shartan would have agreed with them. "If you would live, and live without fear, you must fight."
|
|
LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,849 Likes: 11,997
inherit
10314
0
Jun 15, 2024 21:33:05 GMT
11,997
LadyofNemesis
4,849
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by LadyofNemesis on Oct 29, 2020 10:22:32 GMT
the thing is...until recently the Dalish didn't even know the vallaslin were actually slave markings. Not only that, whatever they were in the past, now they mean the complete opposite. They are actually the sign of the elves who "will never again submit". That may be something of an irony but it makes them no less valid. If a Dalish feels they no longer want those particular vallaslin because of the slavery connotations, they could always come up with something different, although considering how many variants there are of the different vallaslin, I would imagine that many of them are not exact representations of the slave markings. On the whole slave brands, like those applied to animals, need to be consistently applied so there is no doubt as to the ownership. as I've said in a different thread (a while ago) I think each clan has their own variations on the markings we see
for example, Velanna has different markings then those we see in clan Sabrae and Zathrian's clan, and though she has similar designs they are still different Merrill in DA2 also has a variation of the markings she has in Origins Lavellan has their own unique markings (shared by the ancient elves in the Temple of Mythal and Mihris due to game limitation)
but I like to believe each clan has their own interpretation and artistic style as to how they approach the markings.
for example, look at these fan designs > link I could totally see a clan with such markings
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Jun 15, 2024 18:10:40 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Oct 29, 2020 21:07:16 GMT
AND: if Hawke supported his act (as I remember in a patch), they removed this pathetic answer to the question "I heard you were close": "I stayed with him because I feel sorry him" FORTUNATELY, but they didn't replace this line with anything – just erased the whole. If your hawke was in romance with him, and supported him – the Inquisitor doesn't ask Hawke: "I heard you were close". (Cowards – but i suppose I should be grateful... sadly.) You know I wondered what happened to the question about being in a romance with him. I never knew it was there and then they removed it. Honestly, who was responsible for writing that dialogue? They clearly had no idea about how someone might feel towards him if they approved of his actions. Mind you I never agreed with them having Hawke send Fenris away for his own safety or Hawke feeling responsible for Corypheus in the Fade enough to want to sacrifice themselves because of it. They really made rather a mess of Hawke's enforced dialogue in my opinion. I do love those fan replacement dialogues though. Whilst Aidan Hawke is mostly purple, in some ways I think red would be the route he would take over that question. There is also absolutely no way he'd sacrifice himself in the Fade without Anders there. (Actually I'd have quite liked Anders to have been there: "Go get him Justice!") As it is, they were reunited and from then on they stand or fall together. I also think, as we previously discussed, that Anders losing control in Cory's prison was Justice reacting to the threat before we released him. Once released then Justice was content to protect Anders from Cory's influence and/or possession. As such I think Justice would be able to detect the presence of the Nightmare Demon amplifying the false Calling and realise something was off. Plus, unlike the other Wardens, I don't think Anders' first instinct would be to panic and head for the Deep Roads, considering he hates them so much. As with the mage rebellion, I think if Anders had actually been with the Wardens, he would have been the first to see through Erimond's "helpful" suggestion to raise a demon army and go in search of the last two Old Gods. I rather think his response would have been something along the lines of "You cannot be serious?! And they say I'm crazy!" I agree, I don't think, Hawke would leave their love, especially not without a word. Okay, to Anders this is a danger – but even to Hawke, and I'm sure he wouldn't let Hawke take the whole danger alone. Remember: if Hawke lets him go, he came back, And this happened in Awakening as well: if the Warden lets him go, he appears again and offers his help. One thing is possible: if Hawke is able to persuade him, that if he stay at home / „invisible”, it serves HAWKE's safety. The writers seems can't do anything with a Hawke who supported Anders. I read somewhere they were surprised, how much people stayed by him (and not just in romance...) I read many head-canons, that Anders would beg to the Wardens for shelter – but this is absolutely OOC, more than the hiding (it's possible he hides to NOT hurt anyone, especially in rivalry – but not because of HIS safety – while he's not an idiot, he wouldn't yell: "hey, I'm here!"). But why would he beg for shelter? From the Wardens... – if someone, then Hawke can ask their help... but I just don't see Anders do it. One thing is possible yet: he goes back to the Wardens – for fulfil his fate, after the war. To help – or die. It would fit Justice – and Anders as well (Justice's first purpose in the Mortal world, and also: he's still a Warden). But I don't think, it would happen, if he with Hawke. If he's with Hawke – he would follow Hawke: Hawke means the world to him, his connection to the normal life. (I don't like Varric's reactions to Anders in the Inquisition, this banter also not really positive, but except for some negative tone, he's right: Cassandra: What about Anders? Will he...? Varric: If he's still out there, and Justice hasn't driven him nuts, Hawke won't be able to keep him away. (But seriously, Varric, that wording... I hope, just a joke...) Anyway: Varric knows Anders... My Ralph Hawke not in the Inquisition yet, but I already imagine maybe the only way, what that fits the character. Fade scene – a little dramatic – but about him and Anders almost everything is dramatic... (Peeps, don't laugh at me!... Pls! Okay... a bit... I can take...) If you want, here my imagination (weak English warning again...): Chapter 1
9:42 Dragon – The Fade (Ralph's POV)
The mark ripped the Veil, and the little group fell in the Fade. This experience was different from the previous ones, still was the same... Be careful! Suddenly he felt alone. Inexplicable fear flooded him. Hopelessness. It was paralyzing. He was eight again. Under the tree... felt coward. But... not... he was not a child... This is the Fade! Don't let be fooled!... then what is that feeling? He looked around. The others... The others disappeared. He was alone. In the Deep Roads... Someone arrived. Ralph didn't see the face... Larius? And then heard the well-knowing voice from the tortured face: "Kill me, Love, the time came. You promised." "No! You don't have to die! We'll find the cure, I promise" "You should kill me, I beg you! Now, I'm able to say goodbye to you – later, I'll try to kill you... I... I can't stop it! Please love! I beg you!" Anders knelt before him. He never knelt before anyone. "Don't ask me for it! I---" Ralph turned away. Another ghoul arrived. "Brother, he's right. Kill us! Kill us now!" And the ghoul kneeling down next to the other one. "NO! It's not possible! This can not be true! It just another hallucination, another nightmare. I saw enough." "Then you'll not kill them? Well...You know... But this is the truth, and you can't prevent it. You can't defeat the Taint! Carver and Anders will die, like your family and everyone you ever cared about. Your father, remember? He died for you! And what did you? Enjoyed the life. And with whom? Oh, Aedan...! The beautiful Cousland guy! He's dead already, like your father... and you could have prevented his death. You had the choice, but you were too proud... And Bethany... you sure, you were a good brother, a good teacher? Then why she wanted to escape... from her life? And yes... Leandra... you've never let her too close to you. Oh, of course, you loved her ... but she knew when she died?"* Suddenly he calmed down. NOT his fault. None of them is his fault. Yes, this is just a hallucination. And heard his own words. “Everyone is going to die once. Even you, by my hand. And I’ll enjoy it.” Chapter 2 (Anders' POV)
The mark ripped the Veil, and the little group fell in the Fade. Nobody noticed the blonde Warden who jumped into the green incandescent hole after them. He changed suddenly. His eyes glowed up, blue light broke through his pale skin. He followed the team from afar – to protect his love, at any cost. “Did you think you mattered Hawke? Did you think anything you ever did mattered? You couldn't even save your city, how could you expect to strike down a god? Anders is going to die, just like your family and everyone you ever cared about.” He heard. "The demon is just testing you, Ralph, don’t play with it! Be careful, love, don’t let it disturb you, please!” He prayed in silence when heard the voice again. This time the voice spoke to him. “And you… Abomination! All you wanted was justice, right? Then see your justice! Everything you touched, corrupted. You aren't Justice, you're blind Vengeance. Corrupted by the Taint. You're the Taint yourself. You wanted to help your fellows – you burned them. Now you want to help him – so, leave him! He built a life – you ruined it. All that he needs from you, to leave him alone! I bring him peace!" He felt the anger flooded him and tried to erupt. The glow intensified. “I’m not an abomination, I made justice! I’ll protect him!”, heard his own voice as strange, far. Thoughts and images flashed in his mind. “Don’t let the madness embrace you, calm down, concentrate… but it’s right… everything… control, stay in control… but how? I’m a monster, I just ruined everything… no… he loves me, I feel... for him! Stay in control… for him, he needs me!” His head almost exploded. But the glow faded. His voice still sounded strange, but already was calm. “You’ll not rule over my mind, you can't say anything to me, nothing, that I haven't already said to myself.” And then he heard Ralph’s answer. “Everyone is going to die once. Even you, by my hand. And I’ll enjoy it.” Ralph’s voice gave back his peace of mind as well. Nothing can harm him. None of them until they are together. The little group went on and he followed them. He heard Ralph's voice again. “No! Stroud, you saved my brother’s life, I'll not let you die here. Go, Inquisitor, I’ll cover you, but be careful what you do! I’m sorry, Anders, I know you hate it, but 'I'll do my best, I promise! This is just a nightmare, not even the most awful one... But what a challenge!", he added. C'mon, big guy! Try me, it will be a pleasure to kill you!” “Sorry?! Don't you dare try to do this alone!” He stepped forward. “Until the day we die, remember? You said it" Epilogue (Anders' POV)
If anything is certain, then Ralph Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall, the hero (or villain?) of many legends, disappeared – just like his lover, Anders, whose fame was just as big as his champion's: Kirkwall's Darktown healer, who gave hope to the refugees and poorest in the darkest times, and the "abomination," who blew up the Chantry and ignited the spark of the mage rebellion. People loved them or hated them. But they could not ignore them. ("Not that bad, is it, father?"). Did they die already? Did they survive? There were whispers about a grumpy/creepy old man with his weird husband and creepy jokes. Jokes...? Eh, those are legends, and he keeps his fame. If you'd find him, and he'd invite you for a beer in a dark, dirty little pub, you'll realize, he's not so bad at all – quite human in fact... But be careful not to threaten him or his beloved. His reactions are somewhat slower, but don't be fooled: his fireballs don't have age!
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 15, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
27,280
gervaise21
11,149
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 29, 2020 22:15:25 GMT
The writers seems can't do anything with a Hawke who supported Anders. I read somewhere they were surprised, how much people stayed by him (and not just in romance...) I'm so glad we disappointed them. Clearly they wanted everyone to hate Anders and kill him off. That would make everything easier for them. Then again, they apparently think we should take mage doom more seriously. Not our fault if they do too good a job of showing what a terrible place the Circle really is for mages. Varric: If he's still out there, and Justice hasn't driven him nuts, Hawke won't be able to keep him away. So we must assume from Varric that Anders eventually does make it to Weisshauppt. I wonder what the First Warden would make of him. Can wardens detect other wardens because I wonder if anyone would even notice Anders if he didn't advertise who he was. I wasn't sure if Anders would have gone at all. If Hawke had sent him somewhere that Corypheus couldn't reach him presumably as far east as possible, then surely he would still be there? Since Cory was still a threat and Hawke left for the Anderfels from Adamant Fortress that would mean having to contact Anders and then wait for him to catch up. I think it is more likely he would reassure Anders he was okay and then either say they would be back soon or arrange to meet up somewhere on the way back from Weisshauppt. Of course the problem would be that they made it seem as though Hawke disappeared into the Anderfels for 2 years in Trespasser, only to reappear in Kirkwall with no explanation what had gone on at the end. So if Hawke was really up there that long, even after Cory was dead, then he probably would have sent word to Anders to join him.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Jun 15, 2024 22:51:02 GMT
30,819
Hanako Ikezawa
22,667
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 29, 2020 22:45:53 GMT
The writers seems can't do anything with a Hawke who supported Anders. I read somewhere they were surprised, how much people stayed by him (and not just in romance...) Well, I can’t blame them. It is surprising and disturbing how many people seem to support the mass murder of innocent people. But as for the writers not able to do anything with Hawke, no need for it to be that specific. They butchered Hawke in many more ways besides that one. One reason I’m wary of the fate of the Inquisitor once turned into a NPC.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Jun 15, 2024 18:10:40 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Oct 29, 2020 22:54:51 GMT
The writers seems can't do anything with a Hawke who supported Anders. I read somewhere they were surprised, how much people stayed by him (and not just in romance...) Well, I can’t blame them. It is surprising and disturbing how many people seem to support the mass murder of innocent people. But as for the writers not able to do anything with Hawke, no need for it to be that specific. They butchered Hawke in many more ways besides that one. One reason I’m wary of the fate of the Inquisitor once turned into a NPC. Oh, and we can support the chantry, that didn't bother them? The Annulment, the tranquility... such evil things... for centuries. We can support terror institutes, reward mass murderers with crowns and happy end... Why supporting Anders so much confused them? He was not the bad guy in this game... the Chantry IS... but we can support the Chantry, and this is approved... So: bullshit. I don't really care about the Inquisitor... but: I'm sure they will be as they wanted them to be: lukewarm.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Jun 15, 2024 22:51:02 GMT
30,819
Hanako Ikezawa
22,667
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Oct 29, 2020 23:04:35 GMT
Well, I can’t blame them. It is surprising and disturbing how many people seem to support the mass murder of innocent people. But as for the writers not able to do anything with Hawke, no need for it to be that specific. They butchered Hawke in many more ways besides that one. One reason I’m wary of the fate of the Inquisitor once turned into a NPC. Oh, and we can support the chantry, that didn't bother them? The Annulment, the tranquility... such evil things... for centuries. We can support terror institutes, reward mass murderers with crowns and happy end... Why supporting Anders so much confused them? He was not the bad guy in this game... So: bullshit. I don't really care about the Inquisitor... but: I'm sure they will be as they wanted them to be: lukewarm. Way to miss the point of my post entirely, which was they messed up Hawke in a lot of ways. As for your post, anyone who hurts innocent people are bad guys. So: bullshit. But I know better than to get into a debate with you. Again, only commented because of the "Bioware ruined Hawke" part of your post.
|
|
inherit
Wanted Apostate
127
0
Jun 15, 2024 18:10:40 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Catilina on Oct 29, 2020 23:13:43 GMT
Oh, and we can support the chantry, that didn't bother them? The Annulment, the tranquility... such evil things... for centuries. We can support terror institutes, reward mass murderers with crowns and happy end... Why supporting Anders so much confused them? He was not the bad guy in this game... So: bullshit. I don't really care about the Inquisitor... but: I'm sure they will be as they wanted them to be: lukewarm. Way to miss the point of my post entirely, which was they messed up Hawke in a lot of ways. As for your post, anyone who hurts innocent people are bad guys. So: bullshit. But I know better than to get into a debate with you. Again, only commented because of the "Bioware ruined Hawke" part of your post. If you would just say, they ruined Hawke in many ways, you wouldn't start with "I don't blame them, because Anders is bad"... We spoke about especially Anders-supporter Hawke, but of course there are another thing as well they failed. Hawke's reactions, Hawke's LI, Hawke's "responsibility", opinions... a mess, you're right about that. I know, you like your inquisitor the best, as I do love my Hawke. So: yes, I get it, why do you don't want your Inquisitor as an NPC. You can hope, the Inquisitor will be only a side note... like the Warden... "I'm busy, here's a belt!... PS: Hi, Leli!"
|
|
inherit
11247
0
1,639
Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Buckeldemon on Oct 29, 2020 23:27:45 GMT
Was the deal that Marethari struck with Flemeth mentioned anywhere else than Wot2? After playing DAI (Mythal reveal, Mythal altar on Sundermount) and reading that, it made some sense, but not so much before. Not as far as I am aware. That entry in WoT2 was all over the place as well. I read that up again and... yes. I doubt the author of the WoT2 entry even played/read the Dalish OS. Oh, and Sarel: Marethari's spouse and a hahren from Zathrien's clan. Name's more common than Orana apparently. Also, the bandit attack as described by Ashalle had humans and city elves, so I suppose they were more... say, andrastian Fereldans.
I came across a topic from old BSN from late 2011, and MK's comment about Ashalle still being in Ferelden could suggest a split of the clan? At least the boon wasn't totally ruled out at this point, unlike what we later see in DAI. Was is ever mentioned how the Halla were killed? I cannot remember anything, apart from players jumping to conclusions about Merrill and blood sacrifices of course, *rolleyes* but that'd be fundamentally stupid.
I also wondered about clan+Halla+all the Aravels on a ship. The thing with Dalish having something sufficiently valuable to actually pay humans seems odd and I wondered about that in TN as well. I got the Crows aren't supposed to be cheap. Now, Lessef had that Halla scarf, but if everyone reacts to Dalish produce like that Tevinter soldier, I doubt the Crows would accept being payed with goods they cannot sell anyway. 1) I think it's mostly because the Marcher City states are so far apart that they need their own Circle I thought it was more like because the city states don't like each other too much... I think it is more something to do with the latter. A country can have more than one Circle if they wish/it is needed but the Freemarches are individual City States and so politics are involved in having so many, although broadly speaking Kirkwall covers the south, Starkhaven originally covered the north and Ostwick covered the eastern part of the Freemarches. Apparently, there were/are two more: Hasmal is mentioned in DAI, and there's a mention of one in Ansburg as well, though no date. Since we never get numbers on the size of individual circles, but Kirkwall seemed to be a pretty large example, I wonder how many mages are exactly from the Marches as opposed to being transferred from somewhere else. Gives a bit of an impression as if the Chantry is a bit fond of concentrating mages there. The only possibility I can imagine to use the Tranquility is the Seeker ritual – all different case the tranquility should be BANNED. No benefit in Tranquility – if we don't count the free workers... Of course, the Chantry loved it, I'm sure. The Tranquils' free work maintained the Circle – what mutilated them. I'd say that isn't even necessary. As I said regarding my understanding of the SoT's as spirit warriors (and despite my view that the "Seekers Order" should be abolished altogether), spirits can be attracted in other ways. Just ask the Avvar. 1) I'm not even sure that should be counted as true tranquility.[...] 2) Anyway bottom line is that the Rite of Tranquility should be banned in all circumstances. I don't feel it is even justifiable based on the experiences of mages we have met in game who have requested it because of the general attitude towards mages in the Chantry controlled Circles. When you are constantly exposed to negative thinking, obviously some sensitive individuals are going to badly affected by this and as a result they are going to attract demons feeding off those negative emotions. When a mage believes they are cursed with magic it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. This is the problem with the attitude of the Templars and the Chantry towards mages. Even the instances of suicide feed into their perception that mages are cursed and constantly in danger from possession because, so far as I can tell, the mages don't die through slitting their wrists or hanging themselves but by simply giving into a demon and letting it overwhelm them or self immolating, the former confirming the Templar view of them and the latter probably done when alone (as with Orsino's friend) so all they find is scorch marks, thus confirming the mage was a danger. So before I would be convinced that tranquility is ever a solution for a mage who has problems with their connection with the Fade, I'd want to know what sort of rhetoric the mage had been exposed to. It may seem a rather trite declaration but "think happy thoughts" in this instance is actually a very effective solution to the problem, along with assuring them that they are blessed with their gift and are as valued as anyone else by those around them. Also, not housing them in an area where the Veil is known to be thin, let alone one like the Gallows where it has actually been the focus of suffering for hundreds of years. 1) That was my impression as well. Difference might also be the gradual character vs. the hammer punch of the brand.
2) Well said. "Strong suggestion by Chantry/templars" is usually why I tend to dismiss most codex entry examples of tranquility cases. Most of the time I tried to word a point regarding the self-fulling prophecy character of the circles, the retort went into something like a mocking "ooooh pooor mages. Should stop whining. Life's hard, lol.". Or calling me paranoid because I doubted that more priest preaching all that curse nonsense would improve things much. 1) After all if they choose to give the mages total autonomy haven't they effectively "won" the war? Bearing in mind on this path the Templar order has been totally destroyed by red lyrium. Even if you go with the Templar path and disband them, they have still lost and the mages are the winners in the end, if you get Leliana as Divine. Strangely enough none of the choices that the Inquisitor makes are seen as "compromises" by the game. 2) It is also interesting that Solas is the only person who says it was the templars who started the war. So why is Anders the only person labelled as "crazy" and "mad" when clearly there were other people who shared his goals, the leaders of the mages, and other people who were equally unwilling to compromise, the leaders of the Templars? 1) In the end, we always end up with a fair number of traditional templars (like Cullen as army commander) among the Inquisition, as well as other leaders with a similar general mindset (Cassandra). The mages don't really have an advocate of their own, so Leliana to a bit of a leap into that spot.
Sometimes I'm led to think Sebastian is some sort of writer insert. Apart from the direct use of RL terms in a more straightforward manner, we have this... interesting attitude of "single man's deed". Of course, I suppose this, as well as "being responsible for your own actions" and "two wrongs don't make a right" reasoning never applies to circle mages. Sebastian: So your "Tranquil Solution" was hardly the holocaust you imagined. Anders: You've been seeking revenge for the death of one family for as long as I've known you. Anders: Are you honestly judging me for trying to save the lives of every mage in Thedas? Sebastian: But they were never threatened. It was a single man's lunacy. Sebastian: The Chantry would never follow through with such a thing. Anders: Yet.
2) "Eh, who actually read Asunder anyway?"
I'm so glad we disappointed them. Clearly they wanted everyone to hate Anders and kill him off. That would make everything easier for them. Then again, they apparently think we should take mage doom more seriously. Not our fault if they do too good a job of showing what a terrible place the Circle really is for mages. Is this the right time to mention that I adjusted both my pro-mage Hawkes in the Keep to "approve of ChantryGoBoom" due to the latest findings of yours and Catilinas? Though since I started with Asunder, I guess I pretty much dislike any of DG's intended "good guys" and root for the others instead (like Adrian).
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 15, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
27,280
gervaise21
11,149
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 30, 2020 8:29:44 GMT
Was is ever mentioned how the Halla were killed? I'm sure it was mentioned, either by Merrill or another member of the clan, that they didn't take too well to travelling by sea and either died on the voyage or shortly after. Based off that halla in DAO that was pining for her mate, it maybe that after one or two died it had a domino effect on their well being. Suggesting Merrill used them for blood sacrifices was just stupid. Gives a bit of an impression as if the Chantry is a bit fond of concentrating mages there. They did say that Karl was transferred to the Gallows because they had a shortage of experienced mages. That would make sense if mages there were routinely either being made tranquil, succumbing to possession or committing suicide because of the ambiance of the place. Also, again, politics might well mean that those City States with secular rulers not controlled by the Templars would be reluctant to lose their most experienced enchanters to a rival city's Circle. When all is said and done mages have proven very effective against external threats such as darkspawn and Qunari, so you'd want to keep hold of the best. What I would have loved to have had was an exchange between Anders and Solas. I think it would have been fascinating, particularly as the Dread Wolf would be treading very carefully in order not to arouse suspicion in Anders (Justice) that he was more than some simple apostate. There was an interesting exchange with Cassandra though, when she still thought he was just a normal apostate. • Cassandra: Solas, did you ever considered reforming the Circle from within? You have both knowledge and wisdom. You could have made the difference. • Solas: I admire your optimism, but ask yourself honestly how the templars would have reacted. • Cassandra: You fear that they would have made you tranquil. • Solas: There is no doubt in my mind. My studies threaten established ideas. I would never have been tolerated. • Cassandra: I suppose you are right. Repairing the damage done will take great effort. • Solas: Would there be more like you, Seeker. Note Solas does not think that the Templars would have considered him a threat because of possession, which according to WoT2 Cullen (usually ultra careful about such things) admitted that Solas never seemed at risk of this so clearly not the reason they would have made him tranquil. No, Solas recognises it was his "studies", his knowledge and wisdom as Cassandra acknowledges, that would never have been tolerated. This is the main argument against the idea that the Circles could ever be reformed from within because the Templars consistently shut down debate and new ideas and if the individual persisted, removed the problem altogether with the Rite of Tranquility. No doubt that is what Karl meant when he said he was "too rebellious". The Libertarians were tolerated (probably so malcontents could be readily identified) but watched carefully and you will note that in Asunder, when there had been trouble outside the Circle, it was the Liberatarians who had been known associates of the mage who were immediately the targets for suspicion.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 15, 2024 20:16:11 GMT
27,280
gervaise21
11,149
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Nov 1, 2020 10:40:06 GMT
I'm playing through again, this time with a female rogue Hawke to get the different feel for the romance and also experience Anders again with Bethany. I still don't understand why they thought that his relationship with Karl wasn't relevant to Hawke no matter what their gender. To my mind that is important information about his character whether planning on romancing him or not.
I love his exchanges with Bethany though. One in particular stands out and that is when they are discussing how the Rite of Tranquility is the problem when it comes to trying to change things from within the system. As I said in my previous post, Solas identified that as the chief objection to Cassandra's suggestion that he could have changed things from within. So it is interesting that DG decided to use the revelation that it can be reversed as the catalyst to finally getting the revolution started in earnest.
That is the thing though. Anders is having to approach the issue from the idea that the Rite of Tranquility is permanent and is always going to be used by the Chantry/Templars as a threat against any mage who challenges their authority. Since he, Karl and Bethany think that being made tranquil is worse than death (and they also use tranquility in Tevinter to make an example of mages who challenge the system), it is a serious sticking point to trying to reform from within. It is also interesting that already in Act 1 Anders is saying to Bethany that he doesn't think it is going to be possible to bring about change peacefully because of the RoT. Look at that, by using an acronym I have come up with a truism. "The Circles cannot be reformed peacefully because of the ROT in the system".
|
|
LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,849 Likes: 11,997
inherit
10314
0
Jun 15, 2024 21:33:05 GMT
11,997
LadyofNemesis
4,849
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by LadyofNemesis on Nov 1, 2020 14:04:59 GMT
|
|