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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2019 20:46:54 GMT
> remove Liam for treason > recruit Reyes who has consistently committed treason on all groups he’s worked with Seems legit. He hasn't committed treason against the AI. We know he was "nobody" in the MW. He wasn't exiled from the AI (but did leave with them). He never claimed to be part of the Outcasts so there was no issue there with his betraying her. He does [potentially] eliminate Sloane but let's be honest; she was nothing more than a thug. He sets up a figurehead on Kadara, true, but it least it's an Angara. He participates in the final battle at Meridian. Worst crime? Smuggling. Whatever else he did, he wasn't a traitor to the the AI. Exactly what groups did he commit treason on? I'd really like to know. When you are doing the "Three Lancers" side story, approaching their hideout … depending on the direction of approach, you will come upon two rather humble shacks … similar to the stoner dudes' shack. First one has a Turian just trying to survive. The second is where you learn Reyes' worst crimes are far, far beyond smuggling. That pretty much precluded Reyes being my default choice.
My choices mostly went with Sloane, did the Reyes one to see the outcome, but then again, I also read the book, so it put Sloane in a different light for me. Sloane may be a thug … but there are worse things than that … and Reyes is one of those.
I'm not sure I'd call anything Reyes did "treasonous" … perhaps the more appropriate word would be "betrayal."
Just as I probably wouldn't refer to Liam's actions as treason … gross negligence, stupidity, idiocy, conduct unbecoming … all that … but there was no intent on his part to give aid and comfort to the enemy or attempts to levy war against the AI (or the Angara, the outcasts or the Krogan).
Back on topic … I would like to see a more mature Ryder, a more serious tone … perhaps some indication that the optimism of the AI was a bit misplaced and that a more practical approach to exploring the new galaxy needs to be used, going forward. Defensive armament for the Nomad. Whatever defensive armament can be integrated in the Tempest … it will never be a fighting ship ... that would require a different design (according to Kallo), but something added to make it a bit more survivable in a hostile setting. Same for the Nexus and ark ships.
Also, for the settlements … better defenses so raids from Kett, Roekaar, outlaws … whatever … are not so easy. Not some huge change to the game … the AI arrived in Andromeda with what it had … but with planetary resources available, they should be able to manufacture things that were lacking in the beginning. So … recognition that their initial approach was … flawed (the AI, not BioWare … BW intentionally designed the AI to be unrealistic in their approach to an unknown galaxy IMO). Evolution of the AI … to match the galaxy they found, as opposed to the galaxy they imagined. So more serious, a tad darker, a tad less light hearted. Approaching Shepard's status in ME1 … might be the starting point for MEA2. Which I think was sort of the intent with Ryder. If there was an ME0 … pre-Elysium Shepard (as opposed to Torfan or Akuze) … that was where we started with Ryder.
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Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 24, 2019 3:20:55 GMT
When you are doing the "Three Lancers" side story, approaching their hideout … depending on the direction of approach, you will come upon two rather humble shacks … similar to the stoner dudes' shack. First one has a Turian just trying to survive. The second is where you learn Reyes' worst crimes are far, far beyond smuggling. That pretty much precluded Reyes being my default choice.
My choices mostly went with Sloane, did the Reyes one to see the outcome, but then again, I also read the book, so it put Sloane in a different light for me. Sloane may be a thug … but there are worse things than that … and Reyes is one of those.
I'm not sure I'd call anything Reyes did "treasonous" … perhaps the more appropriate word would be "betrayal."
Just as I probably wouldn't refer to Liam's actions as treason … gross negligence, stupidity, idiocy, conduct unbecoming … all that … but there was no intent on his part to give aid and comfort to the enemy or attempts to levy war against the AI (or the Angara, the outcasts or the Krogan). Okay, yeah, his group did torture. I'll acknowledge. No worse than Sloane but not the point. There's a major reason I wouldn't pick Sloane over Reyes. I also read the book first and know her intentions were good (though the last pages show how terrible she could become). Problem is, Sloane is deeply stupid and egotistical. She didn't have to like how Tann was running things. No one did. Her mistake was that she essentially went "off the grid" (unable to communicate) and that led to serious consequences. Factor in Spender (which we could shoot that bastard) and it gets worse. If she had discussed her plan with Tann, even if he didn't like it, at least there would have been some idea of what was going on. I blame her for things turning out as they did. She was also known to cause trouble (punched a superior officer), showing she is unwilling to work with anyone who does something she doesn't like. She's not a leader. She's a dictator. Let's put Liam's behavior in perspective. You take state secrets from your government and offer it to another government in an attempt to facilitate peaceful relations. Does your government: 1) laugh it off or 2) charge you with treason? "Historically, this crime has been severely punished, because an act of treason can destroy a nation. In the modern day, a conviction is accompanied at a minimum by a long jail sentence and a heavy fine, and may merit the death penalty under certain circumstances." SourceNo doubt that Liam is just an idiot with good intentions. However, he's an idiot who would serve some serious jail time.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 24, 2019 3:36:31 GMT
He hasn't committed treason against the AI. We know he was "nobody" in the MW. He wasn't exiled from the AI (but did leave with them). He never claimed to be part of the Outcasts so there was no issue there with his betraying her. He does [potentially] eliminate Sloane but let's be honest; she was nothing more than a thug. He sets up a figurehead on Kadara, true, but it least it's an Angara. He participates in the final battle at Meridian. Worst crime? Smuggling. Whatever else he did, he wasn't a traitor to the the AI. Exactly what groups did he commit treason on? I'd really like to know. When you are doing the "Three Lancers" side story, approaching their hideout … depending on the direction of approach, you will come upon two rather humble shacks … similar to the stoner dudes' shack. First one has a Turian just trying to survive. The second is where you learn Reyes' worst crimes are far, far beyond smuggling. That pretty much precluded Reyes being my default choice.
I think I missed that. What did Reyes do that was worse than smuggling? (Sorry, just saw what dmc said, but if you can, is there a link or datapad or something to show it?)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 24, 2019 4:02:55 GMT
When you are doing the "Three Lancers" side story, approaching their hideout … depending on the direction of approach, you will come upon two rather humble shacks … similar to the stoner dudes' shack. First one has a Turian just trying to survive. The second is where you learn Reyes' worst crimes are far, far beyond smuggling. That pretty much precluded Reyes being my default choice.
I think I missed that. What did Reyes do that was worse than smuggling? (Sorry, just saw what dmc said, but if you can, is there a link or datapad or something to show it?)
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 24, 2019 4:06:01 GMT
I’ve said it before, but the reason I side with Sloane over Reyes is because simply put it is a perfect example of “Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t.” As established in the game, Sloane has a code so there are lines she won’t cross. Meanwhile not only has Reyes crossed those lines, he has shown himself to have none of that and that makes him far more dangerous.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 24, 2019 5:57:08 GMT
I think I missed that. What did Reyes do that was worse than smuggling? (Sorry, just saw what dmc said, but if you can, is there a link or datapad or something to show it?) Thanks. It sounds like interrogation as part of the warfare between the Collective and the Outcasts. There really isn't a good side to pick between Sloane and Reyes. Both have done very shady things, both are clearly aiming for personal gain. So far, Reyes won my support by a razor thin margin for helping citizens of Kadara through funding that doctor down in the slums (No doubt it was a recruiting tactic) and for helping the Initiative instead of demanding a protection fee. Sloane was failing to work for the good of the people she was leading with increasing tribute, poor management where an innocent woman nearly got cannibalized, instituting penalties like open beatings and broken fingers, nepotism and dismissal of Angaran citizens. Maybe it's bias since Reyes had the murders of Angarans investigated while Sloane...killed Kett to cover up for her image. So, Reyes is still shady as hell, but his actions were more beneficial for those who weren't in conflict with his group. I won't say picking him won't backfire, only that was what I came away with from playing the game.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 24, 2019 6:02:57 GMT
Thanks. It sounds like interrogation as part of the warfare between the Collective and the Outcasts. There really isn't a good side to pick between Sloane and Reyes. Both have done very shady things, both are clearly aiming for personal gain. So far, Reyes won my support by a razor thin margin for helping citizens of Kadara through funding that doctor down in the slums (No doubt it was a recruiting tactic) and for helping the Initiative instead of demanding a protection fee. Sloane was failing to work for the good of the people she was leading with increasing tribute, poor management where an innocent woman nearly got cannibalized, instituting penalties like open beatings and broken fingers, nepotism and dismissal of Angaran citizens. Maybe it's bias since Reyes had the murders of Angarans investigated while Sloane...killed Kett to cover up for her image. So, Reyes is still shady as hell, but his actions were more beneficial for those who weren't in conflict with his group. I won't say picking him won't backfire, only that was what I came away with from playing the game. Part of me suspects that Reyes was actually behind the murders in the sense that he managed to manipulate the killers into doing that. Once they serve their purpose and an opportunity presents itself he just happens to know where they are and eliminates them. It harms Sloane’s position while he looks like the hero.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 24, 2019 6:07:40 GMT
Thanks. It sounds like interrogation as part of the warfare between the Collective and the Outcasts. There really isn't a good side to pick between Sloane and Reyes. Both have done very shady things, both are clearly aiming for personal gain. So far, Reyes won my support by a razor thin margin for helping citizens of Kadara through funding that doctor down in the slums (No doubt it was a recruiting tactic) and for helping the Initiative instead of demanding a protection fee. Sloane was failing to work for the good of the people she was leading with increasing tribute, poor management where an innocent woman nearly got cannibalized, instituting penalties like open beatings and broken fingers, nepotism and dismissal of Angaran citizens. Maybe it's bias since Reyes had the murders of Angarans investigated while Sloane...killed Kett to cover up for her image. So, Reyes is still shady as hell, but his actions were more beneficial for those who weren't in conflict with his group. I won't say picking him won't backfire, only that was what I came away with from playing the game. Part of me suspects that Reyes was actually behind the murders in the sense that he managed to manipulate the killers into doing that. After all it harms Sloane’s position while he looks like the hero. I wouldn't be surprised if he did. For now, we'll have to wait and see what happens further between the two outcomes. I see Sloane as as a dictator on her way downward in leading sloppily while I see Reyes as more coldly calculating but more efficient. In a way, saving Sloane is a better outcome since both sides live and it keeps them both in check as they have to divert resources and energy watching their back. What I didn't expect was how much more interesting Sloane gets when she shows concern for Kaetus.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 24, 2019 11:32:22 GMT
No doubt that Liam is just an idiot with good intentions. However, he's an idiot who would serve some serious jail time. I agree. He is an idiot. For me, I would shoot him dead where he stood after talking with Bradley. For my Ryder, she/he would turn him over to Nexus security to explain why he did what he did. Because of what he did, he no longer can be trusted. What he did might explain why he was suspended x number of times when he was a cop. Too bad Ryder doesn't get the option to ask him why he was suspended.
I would also call the asari an idiot as well. With the escape pod crap, I would have left her on the planet. My Ryder would turn her over to Nexus security to explain why she used Initiative property for her personal use while putting the pathfinder, the other squadmate and the crew on the tempest in danger. Just like Kosta, she can't be trusted anymore because there's no guarantee that she won't do something stupid again.
In regards to Sloane and Reyes. I don't care about those two. It's too bad there wasn't an option for Ryder to side with Zia instead of Reyes. Then choose Zia over Sloane.
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Post by mydamnalterego on Mar 30, 2019 10:10:59 GMT
Realistic. Assuming, that the canon ending is RED one: a) the Citadel is severely damaged and needs to be rebuilt (with levels of, say, reconstructions similar to Nexus levels in ME:A); mass relays are also severely damaged and non-functional, thus FTL travels are possible only for specialized ships thus very limited. Restoration of mass relays' functionality could be a viable part of the story; c) isolation of vast regions of the galaxy makes entire sectors fall under power of various local groups - powerful corporations, militaries gone rogue, religious fanatics, pirates, slave owners and slave traders, and - last but not least - organized criminal communities (in fact, the Galaxy becomes a sort of Galaxy-wide Omega). All these are enemies to fight for an organisation striving to restore at least some sort of law and order; d) defeated derelict Reapers are scattered all around to be salvaged to acquire technologies; e) Collectors picked up momentum and established their constant presence in the Galaxy; And so on and so forth ....id est - yes, ME2 squared (if no cubed) with a flavour of post-war ruin and ravage.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 30, 2019 11:25:04 GMT
What tone do you think the next Mass Effect should be? Gritty like Mass Effect 3? Or optimistic like Andromeda? Could there be an happy medium between the two?
Do we want the next ME to be more like Star Trek or like Game of Thrones in space?
They should take notes from Origins, because the game does an excellent job of engaging dark tone, and an engaging story of a hero who has to make tough choices to save the world. And to top it off, the hero is not really a Mary Sue/Space Jesus trope. I think they should recreate Shepard to be a believable, well developed character by allowing players to play back stories of a colonist, criminal, or a military brat. Also, BioWare should really take notes from Spec Ops: The Line to have a realistic tone when it comes to the horrors of war when fighting the Reapers, and make the best of tough choices.
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Post by sassafrassa on Mar 30, 2019 18:48:21 GMT
Gritty setting but hopeful. You make it less gritty over the course of several games by being heroic.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 30, 2019 20:00:55 GMT
Realistic. Assuming, that the canon ending is RED one: a) the Citadel is severely damaged and needs to be rebuilt (with levels of, say, reconstructions similar to Nexus levels in ME:A); mass relays are also severely damaged and non-functional, thus FTL travels are possible only for specialized ships thus very limited. Restoration of mass relays' functionality could be a viable part of the story; c) isolation of vast regions of the galaxy makes entire sectors fall under power of various local groups - powerful corporations, militaries gone rogue, religious fanatics, pirates, slave owners and slave traders, and - last but not least - organized criminal communities (in fact, the Galaxy becomes a sort of Galaxy-wide Omega). All these are enemies to fight for an organisation striving to restore at least some sort of law and order; d) defeated derelict Reapers are scattered all around to be salvaged to acquire technologies; e) Collectors picked up momentum and established their constant presence in the Galaxy; And so on and so forth ....id est - yes, ME2 squared (if no cubed) with a flavour of post-war ruin and ravage. Wait I thought the collectors were destroyed? Yeah they showed up in MP but I can't imagine they would incorporate them into the next game since if we're all honest that was more to spice up MP then any lore. Your other idea's are good though. The mass relays would be the most important thing to fix since until they are then space travel is severly crippled when going anywhere outside a system. Also I think that the "collecting reaper tech" should avoid any lingering indoctrination stuff like they did at the derelict reaper in ME2.
Acquiring reaper tech and making it into ships would be awesome. Relays would become an option then rather then a neccasity
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 31, 2019 0:27:23 GMT
Gritty setting but hopeful. You make it less gritty over the course of several games by being heroic. But make it come with a price and able to make tough choices and consequences that can affect the outcome of the story and characters.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 31, 2019 4:47:07 GMT
The characters not being absurdely stupid freaking morons like in Andromeda (ALL OF THEM) and treating everything like a joke would already be an improvement. That is where I am at. I don't need worst of ME3 dark, but i sure as hell want more serious than MEA. Stupid auto dialogue points about shooting people in the face ha ha, or when Cora finds out her hero is more of a bad ass they she can comprehend and she pouts out of jealousy, she whines in the car about how sad she is and then wants to kill things to make her happy ha ha. Almost everything was a joke. I don't know what game to point to in the series as they all had tonal issues at points. Some kind of mid point between people getting processed into sludge and jokey everything crap. I liked that after the trilogy. A little more serious but continue with the lighter approach.
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Post by mydamnalterego on Mar 31, 2019 9:13:53 GMT
Realistic. Assuming, that the canon ending is RED one: a) the Citadel is severely damaged and needs to be rebuilt (with levels of, say, reconstructions similar to Nexus levels in ME:A); mass relays are also severely damaged and non-functional, thus FTL travels are possible only for specialized ships thus very limited. Restoration of mass relays' functionality could be a viable part of the story; c) isolation of vast regions of the galaxy makes entire sectors fall under power of various local groups - powerful corporations, militaries gone rogue, religious fanatics, pirates, slave owners and slave traders, and - last but not least - organized criminal communities (in fact, the Galaxy becomes a sort of Galaxy-wide Omega). All these are enemies to fight for an organisation striving to restore at least some sort of law and order; d) defeated derelict Reapers are scattered all around to be salvaged to acquire technologies; e) Collectors picked up momentum and established their constant presence in the Galaxy; And so on and so forth ....id est - yes, ME2 squared (if no cubed) with a flavour of post-war ruin and ravage. Wait I thought the collectors were destroyed? Yeah they showed up in MP but I can't imagine they would incorporate them into the next game since if we're all honest that was more to spice up MP then any lore. Your other idea's are good though. The mass relays would be the most important thing to fix since until they are then space travel is severly crippled when going anywhere outside a system. Also I think that the "collecting reaper tech" should avoid any lingering indoctrination stuff like they did at the derelict reaper in ME2.
Acquiring reaper tech and making it into ships would be awesome. Relays would become an option then rather then a neccasity
The cold hard fact about Collectors is, that ONE of their bases, (I assume) the closest to the Milky Way and THE ONLY known to the Milky Way inhabatants, was destroyed – which no way means, that entire Collector race is extinct. And now, when their former masters/creators (or – fuck knows – maybe, just hirers currently) are defeated - they do participate in the race for FREE Reaper and Geth tech along with all the rest species. All the more so, that they are all organic thus did not suffer from the destruction of the Reapers in (nearly) any way.
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Post by 10k on Apr 1, 2019 1:03:09 GMT
I would like them to go back to the "atmospheric" route; in the way of ME2 and the first 3 novels. There was always one thing I felt ME2 did better than all the games, and that was the sense of atmosphere. This was something present in the novels that only ME2 captured IMO. ME2 showed the inner workings of the worlds you would visit. Omega and illum by far my favorite. ME1 and ME3 you were always chasing after someone, never really interacting with inhabitants. Andromeda on the other hand; you just roamed barren planets. ME2 was an intimate story. If there is another ME game, I want another story just the same. I don't want exploration. I want a story, with great characters I can interact with naturally. Not shitty one-liners, and characters that don't take themselves seriously. These were places I felt I could actually live in. So for the next ME game I want more intimate story more on the gritty side of things. Hardship just brings people closer together. A story like Andromeda's just felt superficial.
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Post by cloud9 on Apr 1, 2019 1:05:31 GMT
I would like them to go back to the "atmospheric" route; in the way of ME2 and the first 3 novels. There was always one thing I felt ME2 did better than all the games, and that was the sense of atmosphere. This was something present in the novels that only ME2 captured IMO. ME2 showed the inner workings of the worlds you would visit. Omega and illum by far my favorite. ME1 and ME3 you were always chasing after someone, never really interacting with inhabitants. Andromeda on the other hand; you just roamed barren planets. ME2 was an intimate story. If there is another ME game, I want another story just the same. I don't want exploration. I want a story, with great characters I can interact with naturally. Not shitty one-liners, and characters that don't take themselves seriously. These were places I felt I could actually live in. So for the next ME game I want more intimate story more on the gritty side of things. Hardship just brings people closer together. A story like Andromeda's just felt superficial. I don't mind exploring in a massive game as long as it is done right.
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Post by 10k on Apr 1, 2019 1:15:35 GMT
I don't mind exploring in a massive game as long as it is done right. But that's the thing, can you really trust BW to make a massive game right? They had three times to prove themselves on making a massive open world. Inquisition, Andromeda, and Anthem. What do all these games have in common? Pretty, empty, barren open-worlds. As a wise man once said: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results -Albert Einstein (Not Vaas damn it!). Anyway they shouldn't try to do another open-world game, they are bad at it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 1, 2019 1:39:19 GMT
They had three times to prove themselves on making a massive open world. Inquisition, Andromeda, and Anthem. What do all these games have in common? Being my favorite game of their respective series.
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Post by 10k on Apr 1, 2019 1:51:40 GMT
They had three times to prove themselves on making a massive open world. Inquisition, Andromeda, and Anthem. What do all these games have in common? Being my favorite game of their respective series. Okay I have to know. What makes Andromeda, for you, better than ME1, ME2, and ME3. I can understand why one of the games from the trilogy can be someone's favorite. But Andromeda, I can't comprehend. IMO it does nothing better than any of the previous games, besides probably combat. Seriously, what makes it better for you, I have to understand this.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 1, 2019 1:58:56 GMT
Being my favorite game of their respective series. Okay I have to know. What makes Andromeda, for you, better than ME1, ME2, and ME3. I can understand why one of the games from the trilogy can be someone's favorite. But Andromeda, I can't comprehend. IMO it does nothing better than any of the previous games, besides probably combat. Seriously, what makes it better for you, I have to understand this. Well, my least favorite is ME2 and I think Andromeda does everything it did better than it. Better main quest, better companions for the most part, personal quests that actually made sense to do before the finale, etc. ME1 is third and while both are probably the most similar it’s Achilles’ here is its combat. MEA blows it out of the water. ME3 is a close second and sometimes I waffle but looking at them objectively some of the best things about ME3 is because of it being the end of a trilogy I played so looked at as a standalone MEA beats it. Plus MEA fixes some of ME3’s weak points, like how to handle the forces we gathered in the finale.
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Post by 10k on Apr 1, 2019 2:08:40 GMT
Okay I have to know. What makes Andromeda, for you, better than ME1, ME2, and ME3. I can understand why one of the games from the trilogy can be someone's favorite. But Andromeda, I can't comprehend. IMO it does nothing better than any of the previous games, besides probably combat. Seriously, what makes it better for you, I have to understand this. Well, my least favorite is ME2 and I think Andromeda does everything it did better than it. Better main quest, better companions for the most part, personal quests that actually made sense to do before the finale, etc. ME1 is third and while both are probably the most similar it’s Achilles’ here is its combat. MEA blows it out of the water. ME3 is a close second and sometimes I waffle but looking at them objectively some of the best things about ME3 is because of it being the end of a trilogy I played so looked at as a standalone MEA beats it. Plus MEA fixes some of ME3’s weak points, like how to handle the forces we gathered in the finale. Okay I can respect that, I disagree on a few of these things. But I can respect it.
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Hanako Ikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 1, 2019 4:46:13 GMT
Well, my least favorite is ME2 and I think Andromeda does everything it did better than it. Better main quest, better companions for the most part, personal quests that actually made sense to do before the finale, etc. ME1 is third and while both are probably the most similar it’s Achilles’ here is its combat. MEA blows it out of the water. ME3 is a close second and sometimes I waffle but looking at them objectively some of the best things about ME3 is because of it being the end of a trilogy I played so looked at as a standalone MEA beats it. Plus MEA fixes some of ME3’s weak points, like how to handle the forces we gathered in the finale. Okay I can respect that, I disagree on a few of these things. But I can respect it. I'm glad. I can respect your disagreeing with me as well.
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All the things.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 5,624 Likes: 13,885
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All the things.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by seven on Apr 1, 2019 8:57:29 GMT
What, so none of you want to possibly see the Ryder twins (providing they are in the next one) smash on a la GOT?
That was a joke and I'm kinda sad no one else said it.
Anyway, I want dark and gritty and if I ain't crying, I ain't buying. But not due to it being a crappy game, you get what I mean.
I want to feel like every misson is a struggle, and key characters aren't deathproof to a degree. You know the whole hard decisions ect ect.
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