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Post by Polka Dot on Apr 9, 2019 22:33:50 GMT
I am just waiting for Steam and other to pick up that practice as well and then we'll have an exclusivity war on our hands that does not benefit us customers in the slightest because instead of spending money in features and customer happiness to compete, all the money will flow into securing exclusives so customers can be forced to one's store. That's just not good for us. Can I just say - I really hate this exclusive nonsense? I don't suppose it's such a big deal when the only barrier involves installing a free client, but the hardware specific exclusives irk me. I absolutely understand the platform manufacturers' reasons for doing it, but it strikes me as pure unmitigated greed on their parts, and one of the most anti-consumer acts imaginable. It's not so bad when they're timed, but forever? I've heard so much praise for HZD, and would love to play it - but I'll be damned if I'll buy a PS4 just to play one game.
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Post by lennybusker on Apr 9, 2019 22:53:31 GMT
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 9, 2019 23:36:38 GMT
I don't get the long faces, GAAS is an obvious and I would think inevitable progression for the Dragon Age series, as how else will single and multiplayer be fully integrated? But we should probably leave it to the Dragon Age forum to unpick this one. There is no such thing as fully integrated single and multiplayer. That's just multiplayer.
GaaS is not required for multiplayer, nor is it required for single player. It's only use is to sell stuff to people with more dollars that sense.
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Post by melbella on Apr 10, 2019 1:12:06 GMT
Sorry to go off topic here but to me, the really new thing that Epic does is buy off titles that were already announced (and advertised) for other platforms by independent studios Epic can only offer though...they don't make these companies accept. Harp on it if you want but I think the real villains here should be the game makers/publishers/whatever basically deciding at the last second to go for a cash grab and blow off everyone else as a result. That sooo many are doing it though, makes it seem like something is wrong with the current system.
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Post by spacev3gan on Apr 10, 2019 1:40:58 GMT
I don't get the long faces, GAAS is an obvious and I would think inevitable progression for the Dragon Age series, as how else will single and multiplayer be fully integrated? Perhaps they should not be. Perhaps they should be separate, disconnected modes. Perhaps a multiplayer mode is not even something Bioware should be concerned at all. A singleplayer game is what most traditional Bioware fans want and, judging by Kotaku's article on the matter released today, that is what Bioware Edmonton wants, too. That is what Joplin was supposed to be (and since the Anthem article presents genuine, inside information and Casey's response is proof of that, we have reasons to believe this DA4 article is just as genuine). EA is the one pressing the GAAS model. And this "inevitable progression" is in all likelihood inevitable not because it is a natural progression for singleplayer RPG games, not at all, but simply because almighty EA deemed this progression mandatory.
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 10, 2019 1:53:33 GMT
I don't get the long faces, GAAS is an obvious and I would think inevitable progression for the Dragon Age series, as how else will single and multiplayer be fully integrated? But we should probably leave it to the Dragon Age forum to unpick this one. There is no such thing as fully integrated single and multiplayer. That's just multiplayer.
GaaS is not required for multiplayer, nor is it required for single player. It's only use is to sell stuff to people with more dollars that sense. Sure, but honestly, what did you expect? The business is going to do what it needs or wants to to be lucrative. At the end of the day it was inevitable, and considering how easily EA cancelled the first pass at dragon age for lacking that content, among other things...
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Post by bshep on Apr 10, 2019 2:11:47 GMT
There is no such thing as fully integrated single and multiplayer. That's just multiplayer.
GaaS is not required for multiplayer, nor is it required for single player. It's only use is to sell stuff to people with more dollars that sense. Sure, but honestly, what did you expect? The business is going to do what it needs or wants to to be lucrative. At the end of the day it was inevitable, and considering how easily EA cancelled the first pass at dragon age for lacking that content, among other things... As long as it is similar to what Ubisoft uses on AC:Origins and AC:Odyssey i see no problem with it. There is no pay to win and the things being sold are just cosmetic.
People seem to be making a tempest in a teacup over this.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 10, 2019 2:20:13 GMT
Sure, but honestly, what did you expect? The business is going to do what it needs or wants to to be lucrative. At the end of the day it was inevitable, and considering how easily EA cancelled the first pass at dragon age for lacking that content, among other things... As long as it is similar to what Ubisoft uses on AC:Origins and AC:Odyssey i see no problem with it. There is no pay to win and the things being sold are just cosmetic.
People seem to be making a tempest in a teacup over this.
You two realize I was just responding to what Sofa said about integrating SP and MP, right?
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Post by slimgrin727 on Apr 10, 2019 2:30:27 GMT
I don't get the long faces, GAAS is an obvious and I would think inevitable progression for the Dragon Age series, as how else will single and multiplayer be fully integrated? Perhaps they should not be. Perhaps they should be separate, disconnected modes. Perhaps a multiplayer mode is not even something Bioware should be concerned at all. A singleplayer game is what most traditional Bioware fans want and, judging by Kotaku's article on the matter released today, that is what Bioware Edmonton wants, too. That is what Joplin was supposed to be (and since the Anthem article presents genuine, inside information and Casey's response is proof of that, we have reasons to believe this DA4 article is just as genuine). EA is the one pressing the GAAS model. And this "inevitable progression" is in all likelihood inevitable not because it is a natural progression for singleplayer RPG games, not at all, but simply because almighty EA deemed this progression mandatory. This a thousand times over. The market will become saturated with the GAAS approach and they'll have to find another model. The problem with GAAS is most of it amounts to drip feeding trivial content. Most RPG fans would prefer story DLC or expansions.
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Post by bshep on Apr 10, 2019 2:36:35 GMT
This a thousand times over. The market will become saturated with the GAAS approach and they'll have to find another model. The problem with GAAS is most of it amounts to drip feeding trivial content. Most RPG fans would prefer story DLC or expansions. There is no evidence supporting the claim about it saturating the market and besides they are not mutually exclusive, as Assassin's Creed series show us Ubisoft made a store to sell cosmetics while still investing on story DLC/expansions for the games
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Post by masterwarderz on Apr 10, 2019 2:55:23 GMT
This a thousand times over. The market will become saturated with the GAAS approach and they'll have to find another model. The problem with GAAS is most of it amounts to drip feeding trivial content. Most RPG fans would prefer story DLC or expansions. There is no evidence supporting the claim about it saturating the market and besides they are not mutually exclusive, as Assassin's Creed series show us Ubisoft made a store to sell cosmetics while still investing on story DLC/expansions for the games Ubisoft is an example of doing something right now?
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Post by slimgrin727 on Apr 10, 2019 3:10:12 GMT
This a thousand times over. The market will become saturated with the GAAS approach and they'll have to find another model. The problem with GAAS is most of it amounts to drip feeding trivial content. Most RPG fans would prefer story DLC or expansions. There is no evidence supporting the claim about it saturating the market and besides they are not mutually exclusive, as Assassin's Creed series show us Ubisoft made a store to sell cosmetics while still investing on story DLC/expansions for the games And most of it is mediocre content, though I'll give them props for adding arena and story DLC. Ubi along with Rockstar is an exception, given the huge resources they have. AC team is likely 2-3 times larger than any Bioware team. Also keep in mind the ways GAAS makes money- choke points in progression, loot boxes, meager rewards combined with an emphasis on grinding. If you don't think people will tire of this you're kidding yourself. There's already been major push back.
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Post by clips7 on Apr 10, 2019 4:38:12 GMT
I don't get the long faces, GAAS is an obvious and I would think inevitable progression for the Dragon Age series, as how else will single and multiplayer be fully integrated? Perhaps they should not be. Perhaps they should be separate, disconnected modes. Perhaps a multiplayer mode is not even something Bioware should be concerned at all. A singleplayer game is what most traditional Bioware fans want and, judging by Kotaku's article on the matter released today, that is what Bioware Edmonton wants, too. That is what Joplin was supposed to be (and since the Anthem article presents genuine, inside information and Casey's response is proof of that, we have reasons to believe this DA4 article is just as genuine). EA is the one pressing the GAAS model. And this "inevitable progression" is in all likelihood inevitable not because it is a natural progression for singleplayer RPG games, not at all, but simply because almighty EA deemed this progression mandatory. That Kotaku article is a bit disheartening. I'm not a Dragon Age fan, but discussions of that franchise becoming a GAAS too?... ....this industry is going completely bonkers. I understand GAAS have a role to play since people apparently pay for such things, but games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect need to stay dedicated to their core genre and apparently it feels like Anthem would have fared far better if it was a single player experience and even tho its been stated that Bioware WANTED to make Anthem a GAAS from the jump, we now see that it looks like EA was pulling the strings all along (which is something i felt all along). This just feels like EA is forcing Bioware to make this game and hearing Dragon Age possibly become a GAAS,..is just making me despise EA even more...it seems like EA just wants to destroy franchises and they don't give a s**t....some franchises are just not made for GAAS,,,you can't force that s**t and when you do is when you have crap like Anthem...in terms of broken day one bugs and sloppy execution....then you are FORCING Bioware, a studio known for SP content to make this looter/shooter online garbage when this was never this dev's specialty. I'm already hearing rumors of the next Xbox and Playstation console possibly being fully online and not being able to play physical disks, and if that comes into play, the ps4 will probably be my last run as far as buying consoles...i have always liked physical disks regardless of the argument of some that say *uh...well you know the disk is pulling data off of the servers online anyway*....and i still would prefer to have the physical disk collecting dust on the shelf for years to come. They are able to shove that bat up gamer's asses with no vaseline because gamers and consumers allow it...natural progression is one thing as it happens with most products at one time or another, but greed and consumer control is completely something else and i don't like the subtle direction this industry is going in....
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 10, 2019 4:38:16 GMT
What's the actual evidence that the GaaS model is going to fail? There are plenty of cases where something people don't really like sticks around because nothing better comes along. People have been complaining about grinding for how many years?
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Post by tatann on Apr 10, 2019 5:45:20 GMT
There is no evidence supporting the claim about it saturating the market and besides they are not mutually exclusive, as Assassin's Creed series show us Ubisoft made a store to sell cosmetics while still investing on story DLC/expansions for the games Ubisoft is an example of doing something right now? According to the majority, they're better than Bioware on everything since a few years ago : - looter shooter ? The Division 2 > Anthem - open world ARPG ? AC:Odyssey > ME:A - hype ? Beyond Good & Evil 2 > DA4
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Post by LRX/SRT17 on Apr 10, 2019 5:50:45 GMT
Ubisoft is an example of doing something right now? According to the majority, they're better than Bioware on everything since a few years ago : - looter shooter ? The Division 2 > Anthem - open world ARPG ? AC:Odyssey > ME:A - hype ? Beyond Good & Evil 2 > DA4 I'd compare ubi to EA..but I agree with everything else in your post.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 10, 2019 5:57:31 GMT
Ubisoft is an example of doing something right now? I think so, they've been much more attentive to releasing stable, customer-pleasing games since the fight with Vivendi. Compare the mess of Assassin's Creed Unity with the more recent successes of Origins and Odyssey. GAAS is not the key issue for DA4. Releasing a non-buggy, interesting and customer-pleasing game, is.
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Post by Polka Dot on Apr 10, 2019 6:20:27 GMT
Sure, but honestly, what did you expect? The business is going to do what it needs or wants to to be lucrative. At the end of the day it was inevitable, and considering how easily EA cancelled the first pass at dragon age for lacking that content, among other things... As long as it is similar to what Ubisoft uses on AC:Origins and AC:Odyssey i see no problem with it. There is no pay to win and the things being sold are just cosmetic. People seem to be making a tempest in a teacup over this.
Yes, but the story content Ubi is releasing for ACOD is episodic dribbles. I'd rather get it in complete story DLCs. I don't want to have to be online to play my SP games, or have to worry about when the servers will be shut down. People with spotty/bad/nonexistent service will be completely SOL, as will anyone who loses their internet connection for any period of time for any reason. Will people with limited bandwidth and metered connections end up having to pay extra just to play an SP game? I'm currently enjoying my umpteenth run of DAO. Will I still be able to play DA4 10 years after it's released - or will the servers have been shut down before that? There have been times when I've been unable to play FO4 because the game gets automatically patched and F4SE (which is used by a lot of the mods) is now out of sync. So you can't run it until the F4SE update is available. Three years after the game was released, they're still releasing patches. Not because they're still fixing bugs, but because they're still trying to get you to buy more stuff through Creation Club. So players have to take a forced time-out waiting for the F4SE update for the privilege of being offered more crap to buy in the store. And Bethesda is mod-friendly. (Oh, and BTW - if you're a game retailer who happens to have on hand some used games whose servers just unexpectedly went offline, that inventory just became worthless.) I'm a big fan of bug fixes and DLCs, but those are the only reasons anyone should ever need to be online to play an SP game. This just feels like EA is forcing Bioware to make this game and hearing Dragon Age possibly become a GAAS,..is just making me despise EA even more...it seems like EA just wants to destroy franchises and they don't give a s**t....some franchises are just not made for GAAS,,,you can't force that s**t and when you do is when you have crap like Anthem...in terms of broken day one bugs and sloppy execution....then you are FORCING Bioware, a studio known for SP content to make this looter/shooter online garbage when this was never this dev's specialty. That DA4 will be a GaaS is not mere possibility or speculation. It's a done deal.
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Post by mugwump on Apr 10, 2019 6:49:35 GMT
The GaaS model is confirmed for DA4?
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 10, 2019 7:30:30 GMT
As far as I know, officially they confirmed the game will be a life service one, with Hudson stating all the previous DA games had live service elements. We have no clue on how DA4 will exactly look like on this department, if it’ll be like DAI, AC:O, or Anthem.
Given the early stage of development, I hope EA (because on this point alone it is EA’s decision in the end), looked/looks at last years and how successful some SP-focused game were, and let Bioware focus on what they normally do best, without forcing them too much on life service elements/MP.
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Post by wright1978 on Apr 10, 2019 7:47:57 GMT
This a thousand times over. The market will become saturated with the GAAS approach and they'll have to find another model. The problem with GAAS is most of it amounts to drip feeding trivial content. Most RPG fans would prefer story DLC or expansions. That's certainly one of my concerns.
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Post by PillarBiter on Apr 10, 2019 8:26:34 GMT
This a thousand times over. The market will become saturated with the GAAS approach and they'll have to find another model. The problem with GAAS is most of it amounts to drip feeding trivial content. Most RPG fans would prefer story DLC or expansions. That's certainly one of my concerns. But - specifically for anthem - Bioware have already confirmed that they're releasing more story arcs... (cataclysm, act 2 and act 3). So, in the original contestation, shouldn't that knowledge appease for now?
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Post by tatann on Apr 10, 2019 9:03:09 GMT
According to the majority, they're better than Bioware on everything since a few years ago : - looter shooter ? The Division 2 > Anthem - open world ARPG ? AC:Odyssey > ME:A - hype ? Beyond Good & Evil 2 > DA4 I'd compare ubi to EA..but I agree with everything else in your post. EA doesn't develop games, Ubi does (they're publishers and developers) EA is more like Apple (therefore evil), they just put marketing on things developped by others
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Post by saandrig on Apr 10, 2019 9:33:33 GMT
There is no evidence supporting the claim about it saturating the market and besides they are not mutually exclusive, as Assassin's Creed series show us Ubisoft made a store to sell cosmetics while still investing on story DLC/expansions for the games Ubisoft is an example of doing something right now? I wouldn't believe it too, but in the last few years Ubisoft did a lot of good things with their games and seems to make an effort to improve each title instead of abandoning it. There are slip ups, ofc (New Dawn), but the community seems to appreciate the, pardon the pun, transparency of Ubisoft. I am quite impressed by the ongoing work they do on AC Odyssey. The game was a functioning title from launch, but they keep adding and improving it constantly even outside the DLC schedule. And I bet that the sales and MTX numbers of this SP game will put both Anthem and MEA to shame. Take note, EA, good SP games still bring in the cash!
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 10, 2019 9:45:13 GMT
As long as it is similar to what Ubisoft uses on AC:Origins and AC:Odyssey i see no problem with it. There is no pay to win and the things being sold are just cosmetic.
People seem to be making a tempest in a teacup over this.
You two realize I was just responding to what Sofa said about integrating SP anjd MP, right? Yes
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