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Sifr
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Apr 10, 2019 12:52:55 GMT
Compare the mess of Assassin's Creed Unity with the more recent successes of Origins and Odyssey. GAAS is not the key issue for DA4. Releasing a non-buggy, interesting and customer-pleasing game, is. It really comes down to how the development plays out.
Ubisoft Montreal made both Unity and Origins, but the reason the former was such a mess was because after Brotherhood, half of their team split to make Assassin's Creed 3. It didn't help either that they were forced to rush the game out because of the insane "one game per year" schedule being pushed at the time. Whereas Origins was great because they were given the staff and time needed to make it as good as possible.
With Bioware, even though Andromeda and Anthem were on the slate for a long time, it seems that very little development time (maybe only a year or so) actually went into the games before they were released, which is why they ended up performing so badly. The same seems to be true of DA2 as well, as we know that EA had them rush it out within about a year to capitalise on the success of DAO.
Inquisition did far better, seemingly because the dev team had already gotten the game mostly completed before they got the year's extension. That meant they could improve the game and polish things, rather than it being a mad rush to get the game even playable like they had with MEA and Anthem.
I seem to recall that development for Inquisition had to be restarted when it was decided to move to the Frostbite engine, but what was the excuse/reason behind starting from scratch when it came to Andromeda and Anthem?
Frostbite is admittedly poorly suited for RPGs, but unless there were technical reasons that demanded they start over in both MEA and ANT, it seems more like they didn't have any faith in either project... which should have been an early warning sign for everyone?
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,888 Likes: 49,359
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Post by Iakus on Apr 10, 2019 14:40:27 GMT
As long as it is similar to what Ubisoft uses on AC:Origins and AC:Odyssey i see no problem with it. There is no pay to win and the things being sold are just cosmetic. People seem to be making a tempest in a teacup over this.
Yes, but the story content Ubi is releasing for ACOD is episodic dribbles. I'd rather get it in complete story DLCs. I don't want to have to be online to play my SP games, or have to worry about when the servers will be shut down. People with spotty/bad/nonexistent service will be completely SOL, as will anyone who loses their internet connection for any period of time for any reason. Will people with limited bandwidth and metered connections end up having to pay extra just to play an SP game? I'm currently enjoying my umpteenth run of DAO. Will I still be able to play DA4 10 years after it's released - or will the servers have been shut down before that? There have been times when I've been unable to play FO4 because the game gets automatically patched and F4SE (which is used by a lot of the mods) is now out of sync. So you can't run it until the F4SE update is available. Three years after the game was released, they're still releasing patches. Not because they're still fixing bugs, but because they're still trying to get you to buy more stuff through Creation Club. So players have to take a forced time-out waiting for the F4SE update for the privilege of being offered more crap to buy in the store. And Bethesda is mod-friendly. (Oh, and BTW - if you're a game retailer who happens to have on hand some used games whose servers just unexpectedly went offline, that inventory just became worthless.) I'm a big fan of bug fixes and DLCs, but those are the only reasons anyone should ever need to be online to play an SP game. This just feels like EA is forcing Bioware to make this game and hearing Dragon Age possibly become a GAAS,..is just making me despise EA even more...it seems like EA just wants to destroy franchises and they don't give a s**t....some franchises are just not made for GAAS,,,you can't force that s**t and when you do is when you have crap like Anthem...in terms of broken day one bugs and sloppy execution....then you are FORCING Bioware, a studio known for SP content to make this looter/shooter online garbage when this was never this dev's specialty. That DA4 will be a GaaS is not mere possibility or speculation. It's a done deal. QFT People are comparing Baldur's Gate's multiplayer as an example of how GaaS is "not so bad" Well, I can play BG and BG2 alone, offline, and loaded up with mods without losing out on anything. Indeed, without even missing a beat. How can ANY GaaS game compete with that?
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They call me a Space Cowboy
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 10, 2019 14:53:09 GMT
Yes, but the story content Ubi is releasing for ACOD is episodic dribbles. I'd rather get it in complete story DLCs. I don't want to have to be online to play my SP games, or have to worry about when the servers will be shut down. People with spotty/bad/nonexistent service will be completely SOL, as will anyone who loses their internet connection for any period of time for any reason. Will people with limited bandwidth and metered connections end up having to pay extra just to play an SP game? I'm currently enjoying my umpteenth run of DAO. Will I still be able to play DA4 10 years after it's released - or will the servers have been shut down before that? There have been times when I've been unable to play FO4 because the game gets automatically patched and F4SE (which is used by a lot of the mods) is now out of sync. So you can't run it until the F4SE update is available. Three years after the game was released, they're still releasing patches. Not because they're still fixing bugs, but because they're still trying to get you to buy more stuff through Creation Club. So players have to take a forced time-out waiting for the F4SE update for the privilege of being offered more crap to buy in the store. And Bethesda is mod-friendly. (Oh, and BTW - if you're a game retailer who happens to have on hand some used games whose servers just unexpectedly went offline, that inventory just became worthless.) I'm a big fan of bug fixes and DLCs, but those are the only reasons anyone should ever need to be online to play an SP game. That DA4 will be a GaaS is not mere possibility or speculation. It's a done deal. QFT People are comparing Baldur's Gate's multiplayer as an example of how GaaS is "not so bad" Well, I can play BG and BG2 alone, offline, and loaded up with mods without losing out on anything. Indeed, without even missing a beat. How can ANY GaaS game compete with that? If people are claiming that, it’s a dishonest comparison. The baulders gate mp was in no way shape or form GaaS. There was never any extra fee for using it, optional or otherwise.
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Post by spacev3gan on Apr 10, 2019 14:55:22 GMT
QFT People are comparing Baldur's Gate's multiplayer as an example of how GaaS is "not so bad" Well, I can play BG and BG2 alone, offline, and loaded up with mods without losing out on anything. Indeed, without even missing a beat. How can ANY GaaS game compete with that? Also, no micro-transactions. It is certain that micro-transactions will be a thing in the next Dragon Age game (and all Bioware games, most likely). Micro-transactions were present in Inquisition but only on the Multiplayer mode. In the next Dragon Age it should not be very different from Anthem, we can expect micro-transactions to gain visibility. But yeah, people saying that 1998's Bauldur's Gate is an example of GAaS are delusional.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Apr 10, 2019 15:01:23 GMT
You two realize I was just responding to what Sofa said about integrating SP anjd MP, right? Yes Then both your response.and the other poster’s confuse me. I’m making a distinction between two concepts. If you sign up for origin access and then use it to play tyranny, for instance, then you are playing that single player game as part of a service. That’s what GaaS means. It has nothing to do with the game having a multiplayer component
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Camel
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Posts: 257 Likes: 512
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Camel on Apr 10, 2019 15:07:13 GMT
Launching an online store in 2019 in this state only shows one thing. Greed. Late to the party, greedy, fuck-you-customer unfriendliness, nothing to gain for customers yet everything to loose by choosing their platform, liar CEO with liar publishers teaming up together for the moneyz, disrespectful of customers and gamers by stating "they have no say" in this stupid artificial war, stupid artificial console-like war. The cherry on top, make games exclusive to this piece of archaic junk. What does "Chi-com spying" mean?
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Post by force58 on Apr 10, 2019 15:29:55 GMT
Maybe its time for BioWare to do what Bungie did and divorce themselves from their cancerous partner. Wouldn't happen since Bioware isn't in a deal with EA, they're a subsidiary instead. Regardless I don't see that fixing anything when the problem is Bioware itself. Breaking away from EA doesn't resolve their leadership issues or their own internal struggles🤷. The only difference will be people will find out EA wasn't why Bioware screwed around with concepts for years on end. Well I agree there, didn't realize it was just a sub deal with EA. I still can't believe how BioWare handled Anthem. They read the article and them come back all defensive certainly doesn't make things better.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Teaching Mode Activated
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 10, 2019 18:12:51 GMT
Then both your response.and the other poster’s confuse me. I’m making a distinction between two concepts. If you sign up for origin access and then use it to play tyranny, for instance, then you are playing that single player game as part of a service. That’s what GaaS means. It has nothing to do with the game having a multiplayer component I'll be clear then, that in of itself is inevitable too. I did apparently misunderstand the original point, sorry about that.
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Post by lennybusker on Apr 10, 2019 19:49:12 GMT
Launching an online store in 2019 in this state only shows one thing. Greed. Late to the party, greedy, fuck-you-customer unfriendliness, nothing to gain for customers yet everything to loose by choosing their platform, liar CEO with liar publishers teaming up together for the moneyz, disrespectful of customers and gamers by stating "they have no say" in this stupid artificial war, stupid artificial console-like war. The cherry on top, make games exclusive to this piece of archaic junk. What does "Chi-com spying" mean? I cringed when I saw that. I mean, spyware from Chinese companies is certainly a concern (Epic is partially owned by Tencent). But "chi-com" is a right-wing dogwhistle term (chinese communists). Kinda weird to hear it from ostensibly a younger person talking about bideo bames, it's more like an old Rush Limbaugh-style term. Cringey though.
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Camel
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Posts: 257 Likes: 512
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Camel on Apr 10, 2019 20:50:38 GMT
I cringed when I saw that. I mean, spyware from Chinese companies is certainly a concern (Epic is partially owned by Tencent). But "chi-com" is a right-wing dogwhistle term (chinese communists). Kinda weird to hear it from ostensibly a younger person talking about bideo bames, it's more like an old Rush Limbaugh-style term. Cringey though. There is also no evidence of of the Chinese government spying in that particular game. It reminds me about Huawei.
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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4,063
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Teaching Mode Activated
3,179
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 10, 2019 21:02:26 GMT
What does "Chi-com spying" mean? I cringed when I saw that. I mean, spyware from Chinese companies is certainly a concern (Epic is partially owned by Tencent). But "chi-com" is a right-wing dogwhistle term (chinese communists). Kinda weird to hear it from ostensibly a younger person talking about bideo bames, it's more like an old Rush Limbaugh-style term. Cringey though. Unfortunately those are the high jacking voices out there. Rightfully so, call that bullshit out.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 10, 2019 21:21:31 GMT
What would the Chinese government even get with such spying? What's the theory of operation?
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Post by CHRrOME on Apr 10, 2019 21:33:54 GMT
I thought we already discussed that like 3 pages ago, for like 1 and a half page. Look, I didn't make the chart, I just posted it. Some people in reddit said they've found malicious software and they tracked it to Tencent (please don't make me explain Tencent...), naturally they didn't found that to be amusing. If you add on top of that the fact that a huge breach was made in Epic's launcher compromising gods know how many users personal information, you can see where it leads. I personally don't think it's spying as in "cyber attack the western world" or anything, but they could use personal data for their own needs just like it happens anywhere else, not restricted to a chinese company.
Ultimately, choose to believe what you want, get rid of the "spying" on the table, look at all the rest. I don't even know why you all sound like Epic is to be defended or anything, are you even on PC? whatever, this isn't even on topic anymore.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,888 Likes: 49,359
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Post by Iakus on Apr 10, 2019 21:36:47 GMT
What does "Chi-com spying" mean? I cringed when I saw that. I mean, spyware from Chinese companies is certainly a concern (Epic is partially owned by Tencent). But "chi-com" is a right-wing dogwhistle term (chinese communists). Kinda weird to hear it from ostensibly a younger person talking about bideo bames, it's more like an old Rush Limbaugh-style term. Cringey though. I think it's just a facetious way of saying the security's not great and thre is a risk of personal information getting out. Not something you should trust a credit card # to.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 10, 2019 22:10:44 GMT
I thought we already discussed that like 3 pages ago, for like 1 and a half page. Look, I didn't make the chart, I just posted it. Some people in reddit said they've found malicious software and they tracked it to Tencent (please don't make me explain Tencent...), naturally they didn't found that to be amusing. If you add on top of that the fact that a huge breach was made in Epic's launcher compromising gods know how many users personal information, you can see where it leads. I personally don't think it's spying as in "cyber attack the western world" or anything, but they could use personal data for their own needs just like it happens anywhere else, not restricted to a chinese company. Ultimately, choose to believe what you want, get rid of the "spying" on the table, look at all the rest. I don't even know why you all sound like Epic is to be defended or anything, are you even on PC? whatever, this isn't even on topic anymore. It's not so much a defense of Epic as it is an indifference to lots of the supposed problems. Honestly, I just find this interesting as a business case study. Steam's kind of a Facebook-for-gaming bolted on top of a store, right? Sort of a funhousemirror image of Facebook, which is an ad delivery system bolted on top of a social network. The difference is that with Steam the network is dependent on the products in the store, so it's easier to organize a competitor. Facebook has users and advertisers, Steam has users and publishers, but the relationship of publishers to Steam is far different from the relationship of advertisers to Facebook. In retrospect, I'm kind of surprised that EA didn't pull something like this themselves. But I suppose EA is too big and too hated to make it work.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 765 Likes: 1,038
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Post by tatann on Apr 10, 2019 22:34:22 GMT
What does "Chi-com spying" mean? I cringed when I saw that. I mean, spyware from Chinese companies is certainly a concern (Epic is partially owned by Tencent). But "chi-com" is a right-wing dogwhistle term (chinese communists). Kinda weird to hear it from ostensibly a younger person talking about bideo bames, it's more like an old Rush Limbaugh-style term. Cringey though. In my country, far right party gets more and more of its votes from the youth, so I'm (sadly) not that surprised. Especially considering the regressing level of education...
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Post by river82 on Apr 10, 2019 22:39:13 GMT
But I suppose EA is too big and too hated to make it work. Clueless and reactive, I think you mean. Give one example of EA being ahead of the eight-ball on anything ... other than lootboxes, which they swiped from free to play games anyway.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 10, 2019 23:00:29 GMT
Well, I was assuming that creating a "Steam competitor" is reactive.
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Post by lennybusker on Apr 10, 2019 23:59:46 GMT
I thought we already discussed that like 3 pages ago, for like 1 and a half page. Look, I didn't make the chart, I just posted it. Some people in reddit said they've found malicious software and they tracked it to Tencent (please don't make me explain Tencent...), naturally they didn't found that to be amusing. If you add on top of that the fact that a huge breach was made in Epic's launcher compromising gods know how many users personal information, you can see where it leads. I personally don't think it's spying as in "cyber attack the western world" or anything, but they could use personal data for their own needs just like it happens anywhere else, not restricted to a chinese company. Ultimately, choose to believe what you want, get rid of the "spying" on the table, look at all the rest. I don't even know why you all sound like Epic is to be defended or anything, are you even on PC? whatever, this isn't even on topic anymore. I think it's perfectly normal and rational to have "security holes adjacent to chinese megacorps" as a concern for any piece of software. But when it comes named as "chi-com spying" it's like...oh hi there 4chan, nice to see you. I didn't remark on it at first because it's a valid concern, as well as the rest of the list. But since someone asked specifically about the phrasing, I thought it fair to get into it now. Also I like how this massive ass derail for pages and pages and pages is perfectly ok but veering into criticizing Bioware's direction for Dragon Age 4 got a gentle course correction from the resident fanboy mod.
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Post by clips7 on Apr 11, 2019 1:17:04 GMT
What's the actual evidence that the GaaS model is going to fail? There are plenty of cases where something people don't really like sticks around because nothing better comes along. People have been complaining about grinding for how many years? Haha...there is no actual evidence of it failing..its probably is going to be around for a looong time. I'm just in an "old man get off my lawn" mode and i just don't like the notion of single player games like Dragon Age and maybe the Mass Effect etc...becoming GAAS. ... *EA REP* - lets see, we can make this one game and add content over time and charge players for additional content.....it'll be cheaper for us because we can just update the game without creating new code/ resources... *Or* we can concentrate on making a variety of different games for the consumer.....naw lets just make this "ONE" game and charge the s**t outta the players for additional content every 3-6 months.... I'm joking a bit, but if this really takes off, it feels like there will be a far less variety of games on the market and just games for you to experience foreva........instead of creating a variety of different games for the consumer to choose from. Would i rather play a GAAS for 6 years and spend 300 bucks? or would i rather spend 6 years and spend 300 bucks on different types of games?...me personally?...give me that variety of different games while you are still stuck in the same gaming environment for 6 years....you're also at the mercy of the server life-span.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Apr 11, 2019 2:27:28 GMT
I want to find the idiot that redefined GaaS to mean live service and beat them over the head with a CAT-6 cable spool. GaaS should properly only be used for service products like Amazon's Lumberyard, and possibly streaming game services like PlayStation Now and GeForce Now. It follows from IaaS, PaaS, and SaaS. For once, EA got something right. They consistently refer to the concept being discussed in this thread as a "live service", not GaaS.
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seven
N6
All the things.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 5,624 Likes: 13,885
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All the things.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by seven on Apr 11, 2019 5:41:15 GMT
I want to find the idiot that redefined GaaS to mean live service and beat them over the head with a CAT-6 cable spool. Dis guy? I'll check if hes free.
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fchopin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 453 Likes: 431
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Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by fchopin on Apr 11, 2019 10:11:55 GMT
I think it is very bad news that Bioware are going to reuse code from Anthem as that signifies that the game will not be a single player RPG like previous Dragon Age games but an online game with payed content.
From now on i will only buy games from Bioware only after going through the usual game checks that i use for all other games that are made from all other game companies apart for CDPR.
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Little Bengel
N3
Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 961 Likes: 2,639
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Apr 11, 2019 11:35:28 GMT
I want to find the idiot that redefined GaaS to mean live service and beat them over the head with a CAT-6 cable spool. Dis guy? I'll check if hes free. It technically qualifies as a random act of violence, so I guess he's down.
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Thrombin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Apr 11, 2019 11:56:44 GMT
I think it is very bad news that Bioware are going to reuse code from Anthem as that signifies that the game will not be a single player RPG like previous Dragon Age games but an online game with payed content. From now on i will only buy games from Bioware only after going through the usual game checks that i use for all other games that are made from all other game companies apart for CDPR.
It doesn't signify anything of the kind. They used Frostbite for Inquisition and they are required by EA to use Frostbite for DA4. All that it means is that any improvements to Frostbite's capabilities made for Anthem can be re-used by the DA4 team without having to re-invent the wheel.
Of course DA4 may well be online anyway but, if so, it has nothing to do with the decision to re-use the enhancements and tools that were built into Frostbite for use in Anthem.
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