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Post by griffith82 on May 16, 2019 23:33:49 GMT
Only some people not all. Plenty would be fine with it. I would argue the opposite. More people will be critical of an Andromeda 2, than would be on board with it, exactly because they were so disappointed by the first one that the mere mention of a repeat of it, will put people off. If the same people that rated it down to a 72% Metacritic average PC review score are just as vocal as they were about Andromeda, it will get buried. I am so fearful of the backlash, I don't know whether EA will actually go along and publish the game, or cancel it mid-development and dissolve the studio. 72 is not that bad. You are exaggerating this greatly.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on May 17, 2019 2:51:03 GMT
Here we go. I am such a nerd. link
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 8:46:07 GMT
I saw Youtubers trashing Andromeda long before it even released based on only on their never ending campaign to have ME3 redone to reflect their desired ending in some way. I have seven years of data showing arguments with the same vocal minority that generated all that negative hype, as I said long before release... and that has only led me to believe that if Bioware ever does succumb to their pressure and produces a ME3 canon ending sequel that doesn't exactly meet their expectations there would be an enormous backlash. The reality is that the expectations on a continuation of Andromeda are mediocre at best... which makes it far more likely that Bioware could produce a game that would "satisfy" those expectation and far more likely that they could produce a game that would exceed those expectations.
People have been writing their own explicit desires for what they want out of a Trilogy sequel for so long that it is highly unlikely that any game Bioware would write would (s/b wouldn't), in some way, disappoint those people... and they've proven that they are the vocal ones who are most likely to complain bitterly and ad nauseum about it... since they are the ones who have been doing so already for all these years since ME3 released.
I understand your point of view, but continuing to ignore these people, has not helped you in any way. Have you sat down to converse with these people at all and hear what their expectations are? I've talked to them. Many, many, many of them and they don't seem so hard to please. In fact, I'd argue it's very easily doable.
Trying to pander to them hasn't helped either... because it's never been enough to satisfy them... and it is unlikely that Bioware will ever be able to satisfy them. They are a vocal minority. I'm not denying they exist... but that in no way makes them a majority and that's the category you keep putting them in by attributing them to being "most" of the fans. Most of the fans are silent. Most of the fans will not backlash against an Andromeda sequel. Fear of such a backlash is NOT a good basis for Bioware to make any decision about where they WANT to go with this franchise. Writing a game is a creative endeavor. The FIRST people who have to be inspired by what they are doing are the devs themselves. If they aren't inspired then whatever they do will reflect that lack of inspiration. The fans need to back off and allow the devs to write their own story. The fans have to stop trying to write the stories for them BECAUSE that only sets the fans up to be disappointed when the story Bioware writes doesn't match the story they imagined for themselves. This problem is worse with the Trilogy than Andromeda simply because the fans have been at it -rewriting the endings, etc. for a longer period of time and because their "rewrites" aren't because they love what Bioware did, but because they ultimately didn't like what Bioware did in the end. I don't know what Bioware will choose to do, but they really need to choose what they WANT to do and not allow the fans to pidgeon-hole them into writing a specified story dictated by the fans... which is what, at this point, a Shepard-lives-destroy-reapers-canon sequel would effectively be.
Please also note that I made a typo in my previous post which I've corrected in the quote here and in the post itself.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 17, 2019 10:44:54 GMT
72 is not that bad. You are exaggerating this greatly. It's your worst reviewed game, up until Anthem. And the fact that Andromeda was also followed by Anthem, is going to be indicative for a lot of people, of what to expect of Bioware going forward. Andromeda 2? Great. Maybe they'll release a 3/10 game this time.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 17, 2019 11:41:04 GMT
Trying to pander to them hasn't helped either... because it's never been enough to satisfy them... Are you talking about the EC, in which Bioware didn't address any of the people's problems with ME3, or Citadel, which also didn't address people's problems with ME3? Because that's not pandering, or at least it's not pandering to the demographics that had an actual problem with ME3. They are a vocal minority. They're quite an effective minority, then. One that Bioware can no longer afford to ignore. Most of the fans are silent. Most of the fans will not backlash against an Andromeda sequel. Yes, but those fans are not a viable customer base. It NEEDS to GROWFear of such a backlash is NOT a good basis for Bioware to make any decision about where they WANT to go with this franchise. Facing a problem is not fear. If anything, it shows guts. At this point, everyone expects them to do an Andromeda sequel and are waiting for the announcement to start the memes. Announcing a ME game, that goes back to the Milky Way, in an effort to address the ME3 problems, will be so out of the blue, it will catch everyone by surprise. People will lose their shit. Maybe not in a "Square Enix announces Final Fantasy 7 Remake" kind of way, but close to that. The fans need to back off and allow the devs to write their own story. This has not gone well repeatedly. It's been 7 years. It's not going to stop. The fans have to stop trying to write the stories for them BECAUSE that only sets the fans up to be disappointed when the story Bioware writes doesn't match the story they imagined for themselves. People don't have expectations for a perfect game. ME3 curbed that very effectively. Everything else is pain management. Give them something that is good enough and it'll feel better than morphine. This problem is worse with the Trilogy than Andromeda simply because the fans have been at it -rewriting the endings, etc. for a longer period of time and because their "rewrites" aren't because they love what Bioware did, but because they ultimately didn't like what Bioware did in the end. Yes. I mean, ME3 wasn't just far from perfect. I don't know what Bioware will choose to do, but they really need to choose what they WANT to do If I were working at Bioware, I'd probably like to have a job, so I'd want to make games that succeed, so I can keep working, because I need a source of income, in order to live. Otherwise, EA will close my studio down and I will have to look for another job, which I don't know how long it will take me and if I can afford to be out of a job right now. not allow the fans to pidgeon-hole them into writing a specified story dictated by the fans... which is what, at this point, a Shepard-lives-destroy-reapers-canon sequel would effectively be. There were posts, that later got deleted, by Patrick Weekes, back in the day, in a forum ... I forget were, it's been 7 years, so forgive me if my memory isn't perfect about it, in a moments notice. In those posts Patrick described how even people within Bioware were not happy with ME3 and protested vocally about it to Mac and Casey, who refused to listen. So, in the end, not even Bioware gets to make the games they want themselves to be making. If that isn't telling that ME3 needed to be a very different game, then I don't know what is. Please also note that I made a typo in my previous post which I've corrected in the quote here and in the post itself. Noted, though I don't think I missed the gist of it. If I had a penny for every typo I'd made, why, I'd fund my own ME3. With blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the blackjack.
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Post by river82 on May 17, 2019 13:10:21 GMT
I get a strong feeling that Bioware has lost their identity as a company. They used to be the ones that did strategic squad based RPGs. Then they were the ones that told emotional stories while offering strategic squad based RPGs. Then they were the ones that allowed you to have weird sex with blue aliens. That was when everybody was generally happy with them.
Now they do the open world thing, except they suck at it. Their stories have always had an undercurrent of darkness that has completely gone missing over the last two games. They've lost the strategy. Hell, Anthem didn't even have romance.
Who are Bioware? I don't even think they know anymore. Assassin's Creed Odyssey does the Bioware thing better than recent Bioware.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 13:26:08 GMT
Trying to pander to them hasn't helped either... because it's never been enough to satisfy them... Are you talking about the EC, in which Bioware didn't address any of the people's problems with ME3, or Citadel, which also didn't address people's problems with ME3? Because that's not pandering, or at least it's not pandering to the demographics that had an actual problem with ME3. They are a vocal minority. They're quite an effective minority, then. One that Bioware can no longer afford to ignore. Most of the fans are silent. Most of the fans will not backlash against an Andromeda sequel. Yes, but those fans are not a viable customer base. It NEEDS to GROWFear of such a backlash is NOT a good basis for Bioware to make any decision about where they WANT to go with this franchise. Facing a problem is not fear. If anything, it shows guts. At this point, everyone expects them to do an Andromeda sequel and are waiting for the announcement to start the memes. Announcing a ME game, that goes back to the Milky Way, in an effort to address the ME3 problems, will be so out of the blue, it will catch everyone by surprise. People will lose their shit. Maybe not in a "Square Enix announces Final Fantasy 7 Remake" kind of way, but close to that. The fans need to back off and allow the devs to write their own story. This has not gone well repeatedly. It's been 7 years. It's not going to stop. The fans have to stop trying to write the stories for them BECAUSE that only sets the fans up to be disappointed when the story Bioware writes doesn't match the story they imagined for themselves. People don't have expectations for a perfect game. ME3 curbed that very effectively. Everything else is pain management. Give them something that is good enough and it'll feel better than morphine. This problem is worse with the Trilogy than Andromeda simply because the fans have been at it -rewriting the endings, etc. for a longer period of time and because their "rewrites" aren't because they love what Bioware did, but because they ultimately didn't like what Bioware did in the end. Yes. I mean, ME3 wasn't just far from perfect. I don't know what Bioware will choose to do, but they really need to choose what they WANT to do If I were working at Bioware, I'd probably like to have a job, so I'd want to make games that succeed, so I can keep working, because I need a source of income, in order to live. Otherwise, EA will close my studio down and I will have to look for another job, which I don't know how long it will take me and if I can afford to be out of a job right now. not allow the fans to pidgeon-hole them into writing a specified story dictated by the fans... which is what, at this point, a Shepard-lives-destroy-reapers-canon sequel would effectively be. There were posts, that later got deleted, by Patrick Weekes, back in the day, in a forum ... I forget were, it's been 7 years, so forgive me if my memory isn't perfect about it, in a moments notice. In those posts Patrick described how even people within Bioware were not happy with ME3 and protested vocally about it to Mac and Casey, who refused to listen. So, in the end, not even Bioware gets to make the games they want themselves to be making. If that isn't telling that ME3 needed to be a very different game, then I don't know what is. Please also note that I made a typo in my previous post which I've corrected in the quote here and in the post itself. Noted, though I don't think I missed the gist of it. If I had a penny for every typo I'd made, why, I'd fund my own ME3. With blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the blackjack. 1) Your own words in the post I first responded to were that you FEAR the backlash if an Andromeda sequel is made. Your "fear" does not equate to Bioware "facing the problem" let alone solving it. The problems that Bioware have to face are producition related. They need to figure out how to make a great game within the time frames set by EA and not fritter away months of early production time only to face a serious crunch at the end that results in the release of an unfinished game.
2) The vocal minority that backlashed against Andromeda in the first place did so BEFORE the game was even released.
3) That same group also backlashed against Anthem BEFORE that game was even released AND some of them even expressed the desire to see it fail.
4) It was also that same group that also backlashed against ME3's endings.
5) They will likely backlash against whatever Bioware writes... even if the go ahead with an ME3 sequel... because that vocal minority has shown based on a 7-year track record that they backlash against everything. There is simply no satisfying them.
6) IN NO WAY is that group a fans representing "most" of Bioware's fans. The majority of the fans are silent.
7) Given that there will be a backlash from the same group no matter what is done, Bioware needs to make their choice on where they feel inspired... where they feel they can write their best story and produce their best game. That is not avoiding the issue... that's solving the issue of low staff morale and lack of inspiration (love) for their work.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 13:41:08 GMT
I get a strong feeling that Bioware has lost their identity as a company. They used to be the ones that did strategic squad based RPGs. Then they were the ones that told emotional stories while offering strategic squad based RPGs. Then they were the ones that allowed you to have weird sex with blue aliens. That was when everybody was generally happy with them. Now they do the open world thing, except they suck at it. Their stories have always had an undercurrent of darkness that has completely gone missing over the last two games. They've lost the strategy. Hell, Anthem didn't even have romance. Who are Bioware? I don't even think they know anymore. Assassin's Creed Odyssey does the Bioware thing better than recent Bioware. ... and doing the "open-world thing" was pandering to that same minority of vocal fans who began pressuring them to make their games comparable to TW3. .. so SirSourpuss , I'm not just referring to the EC when I talk about pandering to that vocal minority of fans. The lighter tone of Andromeda was also put there at the specific request of that same group of vocal fans on the old BSN... fans who often don't really think out fully what they're asking for... and have an established track record of "backlashing" against those same ideas when they see them realized by Bioware but not in exactly the same way and with the same impacts they envisioned. The same is true for Andromeda's dialogue system... which was changed to try to address the long-criticized shortcomings in the P/R system in ME2. ME3's dialogue system was also changed to try to address those same issues identified by the fans in ME2. Neither change satisfied those same fans.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 17, 2019 14:01:57 GMT
The problems that Bioware have to face are producition related. Not exclusively. You think there is a 7 million people fanbase ready to buy every Bioware game out there, regardless of what they put out, or the quality of previous titles? Humans have been known, at times, to be spiteful, or vengeful, or frugal, or reserved, among other things. Maybe a currently 59% metacritic average reviewed game to you is a resounding critical success, but not everyone will see it that way. The vocal minority that backlashed against Andromeda in the first place did so BEFORE the game was even released.
Yes, they did. And thanks to that, look what Andromeda got: a book. Can you guess what would happen with an Andromeda 2? 3) That same group also backlashed against Anthem BEFORE that game was even released AND some of them even expressed the desire to see it fail. True, some people were bitter about it, because they shared the sentiment that "Mass Effect died for this" and, well, look where Anthem is now. They will likely backlash against whatever Bioware writes... even if the go ahead with an ME3 sequel... because that vocal minority has shown based on a 7-year track record that they backlash against everything. There is simply no satisfying them. But you've not attempted to satisfy them, only ignore them. IN NO WAY is that group a fans representing "most" of Bioware's fans. The majority of the fans are silent. You have no way to quantify that, but even so, look at the effect that minority is currently having. Given that there will be a backlash from the same group no matter what is done, Bioware needs to make their choice on where they feel inspired... where they feel they can write their best story and produce their best game. That is not avoiding the issue... that's solving the issue of low staff morale and lack of inspiration (love) for their work. That solves nothing for Bioware and it is, frankly, the coward's way out. As proven so far, "wait it out, it will eventually die out" has not worked. In 7 years. You either do it, or maybe EA will merge Edmonton too, with Motive, to work on Star Wars Battlefront N.
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Post by river82 on May 17, 2019 14:02:45 GMT
The lighter tone of Andromeda was also put there at the specific request of that same group of vocal fans on the old BSN... I honestly have no clue why people would suggest this. I tend to find stories that try to be lighthearted all the time often are quite bland and shallow (there's obvious exceptions).
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 17, 2019 14:22:30 GMT
... and doing the "open-world thing" was pandering to that same minority of vocal fans who began pressuring them to make their games comparable to TW3. .. so sirpetrakus , I'm not just referring to the EC when I talk about pandering to that vocal minority of fans. The lighter tone of Andromeda was also put there at the specific request of that same group of vocal fans on the old BSN... fans who often don't really think out fully what they're asking for... and have an established track record of "backlashing" against those same ideas when they see them realized by Bioware but not in exactly the same way and with the same impacts they envisioned. The same is true for Andromeda's dialogue system... which was changed to try to address the long-criticized shortcomings in the P/R system in ME2. ME3's dialogue system was also changed to try to address those same issues identified by the fans in ME2. Neither change satisfied those same fans. None of these, however, have anything to do the people's problem with ME3. These are simply game elements that people would like to see better implemented in Bioware's games and their new attempt at the reputation system was widely criticized as being worse than the P/R system. As for the dialogue system, going the DA2/DA:I route, well, let's call it mixed reception. And just like every game, developers will experiment with ideas, some will work, others won't and sometimes they will try to implement features of other games, because those are mainstream/popular at the time and tend to pull at an audience. But I in no way consider myself an Assassin's Creed fan, it's just that Ubisoft presented me a game with a catch I found appealing and it was all there and it was true. Bioware on the other hand fabricated a video of what people should expect of Anthem and almost none of it was an accurate representation of the final product.
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Post by alanc9 on May 17, 2019 14:27:50 GMT
None of these, however, have anything to do the people's problem with ME3. These are simply game elements that people would like to see better implemented in Bioware's games and their new attempt at the reputation system was widely criticized as being worse than the P/R system. Could you source that? After ME2's awful system, my impression was that ME3's change was substantially better-received.
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 17, 2019 14:35:57 GMT
Could you source that? After ME2's awful system, my impression was that ME3's change was substantially better-received. I'm referring to Andromeda's system which, if I recall, was criticized for being worse than the P/R system. Am I mistaken? I could be mistaken on that one. I don't remember ME3's P/R implementation being that significantly different to ME2's, let alone worse and, any way, that wasn't part of ME3's problems people seem to have such a grudge with. Some might, but it's a lot less important.
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Post by Iakus on May 17, 2019 16:19:33 GMT
I get a strong feeling that Bioware has lost their identity as a company. They used to be the ones that did strategic squad based RPGs. Then they were the ones that told emotional stories while offering strategic squad based RPGs. Then they were the ones that allowed you to have weird sex with blue aliens. That was when everybody was generally happy with them. Now they do the open world thing, except they suck at it. Their stories have always had an undercurrent of darkness that has completely gone missing over the last two games. They've lost the strategy. Hell, Anthem didn't even have romance. Who are Bioware? I don't even think they know anymore. Assassin's Creed Odyssey does the Bioware thing better than recent Bioware. This. Bioware's been suffering an identity crisis pretty much since EA acquired them.
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Post by Iakus on May 17, 2019 16:26:05 GMT
I get a strong feeling that Bioware has lost their identity as a company. They used to be the ones that did strategic squad based RPGs. Then they were the ones that told emotional stories while offering strategic squad based RPGs. Then they were the ones that allowed you to have weird sex with blue aliens. That was when everybody was generally happy with them. Now they do the open world thing, except they suck at it. Their stories have always had an undercurrent of darkness that has completely gone missing over the last two games. They've lost the strategy. Hell, Anthem didn't even have romance. Who are Bioware? I don't even think they know anymore. Assassin's Creed Odyssey does the Bioware thing better than recent Bioware. ... and doing the "open-world thing" was pandering to that same minority of vocal fans who began pressuring them to make their games comparable to TW3. .. so SirSourpuss , I'm not just referring to the EC when I talk about pandering to that vocal minority of fans. The lighter tone of Andromeda was also put there at the specific request of that same group of vocal fans on the old BSN... fans who often don't really think out fully what they're asking for... and have an established track record of "backlashing" against those same ideas when they see them realized by Bioware but not in exactly the same way and with the same impacts they envisioned. The same is true for Andromeda's dialogue system... which was changed to try to address the long-criticized shortcomings in the P/R system in ME2. ME3's dialogue system was also changed to try to address those same issues identified by the fans in ME2. Neither change satisfied those same fans. 1) Bioware had been trying to copy/paste from Skyrim for years. Recall DAI where they outright admitted it? Also don't forget these worlds were supposed to be procedural at first. That's not TW3 either. That's copying from No Man's Sky. And that also turned out to be a train wreck. 2) I don't recall lighter tone being complained about as much as the tone selection for Ryder, which allows very little in the way of personality variation. Everything was simply a variation of "wry action hero" DAI did it way better. *more nonsense trashing people who dare disagree with him*3) Dialogue system. Yeah, it sucks. Different phrases but all ultimately feel pretty much the same. Again, DAI did it MUCH better, and without a P/R system either. Just because the system was changed doesn't mean it was changed WELL.
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Post by wright1978 on May 17, 2019 17:16:03 GMT
... and doing the "open-world thing" was pandering to that same minority of vocal fans who began pressuring them to make their games comparable to TW3. .. so SirSourpuss , I'm not just referring to the EC when I talk about pandering to that vocal minority of fans. The lighter tone of Andromeda was also put there at the specific request of that same group of vocal fans on the old BSN... fans who often don't really think out fully what they're asking for... and have an established track record of "backlashing" against those same ideas when they see them realized by Bioware but not in exactly the same way and with the same impacts they envisioned. The same is true for Andromeda's dialogue system... which was changed to try to address the long-criticized shortcomings in the P/R system in ME2. ME3's dialogue system was also changed to try to address those same issues identified by the fans in ME2. Neither change satisfied those same fans. 1) Bioware had been trying to copy/paste from Skyrim for years. Recall DAI where they outright admitted it? Also don't forget these worlds were supposed to be procedural at first. That's not TW3 either. That's copying from No man's Sky. And that also turned out to be a train wreck. 2) I don't recall lighter tone being complained about as much as the tone selection for Ryder, which allows very little in the way of personality variation. Everything was simply a variation of "wry action hero" DAI did it way better. *more nonsense trashing people who dare disagree with him* Dialogue system. Yeah, it sucks. Different phrases but all ultimately feel pretty much the same. Again, DAI did it MUCH better, and without a P/R system either. Just because the system was changed doesn't mean it was changed WELL. Yeah don’t get the Witcher comparison. Maybe by the time da4 comes we’ll be saying that but not for any of the current games. i thought the dialogue system was atrocious, different phrases but ultimately feel the same, in both andromeda and inquisition
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Post by AnDromedary on May 17, 2019 17:18:45 GMT
Could you source that? After ME2's awful system, my impression was that ME3's change was substantially better-received. I'm referring to Andromeda's system which, if I recall, was criticized for being worse than the P/R system. Am I mistaken? I could be mistaken on that one. I don't remember ME3's P/R implementation being that significantly different to ME2's, let alone worse and, any way, that wasn't part of ME3's problems people seem to have such a grudge with. Some might, but it's a lot less important. ME2 had a system where essentially the game counted how many percent of the currently available P/R points you had and unlocked dialogue options accordingly. THat was by far the worst system of all games as it forced you to play one style only if you wanted to unlock difficult persuasions (and it wasn't explained at all, so players had no idea why options would be locked).
ME3 had a decent system where you just gather reputation throughout the game which would unlock both, paragon and renegade options, no matter your alignment. This worked fairly ok because as long as you didn't slip content, you'd basically always unlock all options. One might argue that it made the system itself fairly irrelevant but after ME2, I don't think anyone really complained about that.
Andromeda has no P/R system but was criticized mostly for the fact that in most cases, you couldn't really give varied answers but the different options would just vary in tone.
Personally, for a future ME, I'd like to see a dialogue system similar to DA:I. Meaning no P/r or other alignment system but still meaningful dialogue options that actually differ in the content of your response and also affect the rest of the dialogue you have with that person (if not having broader consequences of course).
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9459
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,624
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 17, 2019 17:41:07 GMT
Personally, for a future ME, I'd like to see a dialogue system similar to DA:I. Meaning no P/r or other alignment system but still meaningful dialogue options that actually differ in the content of your response and also affect the rest of the dialogue you have with that person (if not having broader consequences of course). AC: Odyssey took queues from that, as well. DA:I's system is not bad, but the clear intent of the options shown, that are freely available at any time, that also provide a figurative "get out of jail" card is way too streamlined, at any point. The option to turn off descriptions, however, did not help, either, as you would be left with no idea what the actual tone or intent of your conversation was. I get that it is derived, partly, from Alpha Protocol's, which simply had dialogue stances, with the intent to be purely manipulative of the person you are talking with, but I doubt Inquisition's system was made with that in mind, but perhaps as a vague template.
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Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,235
AnDromedary
4,432
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
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Post by AnDromedary on May 17, 2019 17:49:09 GMT
Personally, for a future ME, I'd like to see a dialogue system similar to DA:I. Meaning no P/r or other alignment system but still meaningful dialogue options that actually differ in the content of your response and also affect the rest of the dialogue you have with that person (if not having broader consequences of course). AC: Odyssey took queues from that, as well. DA:I's system is not bad, but the clear intent of the options shown, that are freely available at any time, that also provide a figurative "get out of jail" card is way too streamlined, at any point. The option to turn off descriptions, however, did not help, either, as you would be left with no idea what the actual tone or intent of your conversation was. I get that it is derived, partly, from Alpha Protocol's, which simply had dialogue stances, with the intent to be purely manipulative of the person you are talking with, but I doubt Inquisition's system was made with that in mind, but perhaps as a vague template. Oh, right, I didn't even think about the implementation with the stances. I was more talking about what the actual options should look like. How to implement them is a whole other story. I'd like to have it customizable with three parts that you can turn on or off individually: 1. The short wheel descriptions (as in ME1/2/3) 2. The stances (symbols like DA:I or text like Alpha Protocol) 3. Show the subtitles of the exact line that the character will actually say (like in Deus Ex human revolution)
If the user can then decide which of these 3 parts should be visible, everyone should have a way to be happy. I'd probably still go with showing 1 and 2 in this case (so basically DA:I style) though).
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inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,624
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 17, 2019 17:57:47 GMT
AC: Odyssey took queues from that, as well. DA:I's system is not bad, but the clear intent of the options shown, that are freely available at any time, that also provide a figurative "get out of jail" card is way too streamlined, at any point. The option to turn off descriptions, however, did not help, either, as you would be left with no idea what the actual tone or intent of your conversation was. I get that it is derived, partly, from Alpha Protocol's, which simply had dialogue stances, with the intent to be purely manipulative of the person you are talking with, but I doubt Inquisition's system was made with that in mind, but perhaps as a vague template. Oh, right, I didn't even think about the implementation with the stances. I was more talking about what the actual options should look like. How to implement them is a whole other story. I'd like to have it customizable with three parts that you can turn on or off individually: 1. The short wheel descriptions (as in ME1/2/3) 2. The stances (symbols like DA:I or text like Alpha Protocol) 3. Show the subtitles of the exact line that the character will actually say (like in Deus Ex human revolution)
If the user can then decide which of these 3 parts should be visible, everyone should have a way to be happy. I'd probably still go with showing 1 and 2 in this case (so basically DA:I style) though).
I'd still take the ME1/2/3 descriptive wheel over the DA:I option. Without the icon descriptions, I have no idea what the fuck I'm about to say. I'd prefer option 3, but that makes the voiced protagonist kinda moot, so I understand why that's not a good option.
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0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,235
AnDromedary
4,432
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
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Post by AnDromedary on May 17, 2019 18:14:48 GMT
I'd still take the ME1/2/3 descriptive wheel over the DA:I option. Without the icon descriptions, I have no idea what the fuck I'm about to say. I'd prefer option 3, but that makes the voiced protagonist kinda moot, so I understand why that's not a good option. Wait but DA:I did have both, the symbols and Mass Effect style descriptive text, right?
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inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,624
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on May 17, 2019 18:19:13 GMT
I'd still take the ME1/2/3 descriptive wheel over the DA:I option. Without the icon descriptions, I have no idea what the fuck I'm about to say. I'd prefer option 3, but that makes the voiced protagonist kinda moot, so I understand why that's not a good option. Wait but DA:I did have both, the symbols and Mass Effect style descriptive text, right? I didn't find it as descriptive. Without the icons, I had no context in what way something was going to be said, so a lot of options that looked good, ultimately weren't. Which, in turn you could argue why would I turn the descriptive icons off. Because I think they're stupid, that's why.
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2044
0
Nov 10, 2016 16:47:07 GMT
10,235
AnDromedary
4,432
Nov 10, 2016 16:30:09 GMT
November 2016
andromedary
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Post by AnDromedary on May 17, 2019 18:24:21 GMT
Wait but DA:I did have both, the symbols and Mass Effect style descriptive text, right? I didn't find it as descriptive. Without the icons, I had no context in what way something was going to be said, so a lot of options that looked good, ultimately weren't. Which, in turn you could argue why would I turn the descriptive icons off. Because I think they're stupid, that's why. Fair enough. Though - while I myself can only think of two instances in the enture ME trilogy - I have heard quite a few people complain that in ME, there were also quite a few instances where the wheel descriptions were misleading or not clear enough. In a way, Mass Effect also averted the symbols by placing the stances always on the same position on the wheel. Personally, i don't have anything against the symbols. I think they worked ok with the wheel text. But sure, that's a matter of taste.
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inherit
3318
0
3,794
Psychevore
1,579
February 2017
psychevore
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Psychevore on May 17, 2019 20:15:29 GMT
MMO set a few years prior to the original trilogy.
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inherit
1227
0
Jun 25, 2024 21:39:12 GMT
3,675
Phantom
2,661
August 2016
deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by Phantom on May 17, 2019 20:28:12 GMT
I would like roleplay as a C-Sec Officer that is hunting a Dangerous Serial Killer.
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